The NBA 2014 Offseason Thread

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Typical Danny Ainge reclamation project. My guess is that Jeff Green is headed out the door soon.

Jeff Green was their leading scorer, IIRC. You don't just replace that guy with a reclamation project. I do think Green could be out the door simply because he is a piece which can bring back assets for down the road, who will probably not be on the roster when the Celtics are good again. But it won't be to make way for Turner lol.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Jeff Green was their leading scorer, IIRC. You don't just replace that guy with a reclamation project. I do think Green could be out the door simply because he is a piece which can bring back assets for down the road, who will probably not be on the roster when the Celtics are good again. But it won't be to make way for Turner lol.

Turner in Philly 2013 (54 games): 17.4 ppg, .451 eFG%, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 13.2 PER
Green in Boston 2013: 16.9 ppg, .469 eFG%, 4.6 rpg, 1.7 apg, 13.1 PER

Turner is the better rebounder and has more assists, Green is the better defender. But overall, it's a wash. So yeah, you can replace that guy with a reclamation project because neither is all that great. Turner may have washed out on Indy the last part of the year, but then again that team was so dysfunctional that you can't pin that on him. The knock on Turner is his poor defensive effort (reflected in his PER) and his supposed attitude issues. But on the court, these guys are as comparable as they get.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Turner in Philly 2013 (54 games): 17.4 ppg, .451 eFG%, 6.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 13.2 PER
Green in Boston 2013: 16.9 ppg, .469 eFG%, 4.6 rpg, 1.7 apg, 13.1 PER

Turner is the better rebounder and has more assists, Green is the better defender. But overall, it's a wash. So yeah, you can replace that guy with a reclamation project because neither is all that great. Turner may have washed out on Indy the last part of the year, but then again that team was so dysfunctional that you can't pin that on him.

You make a good case with the numbers, so, yeah, I can more see it there. The issue I have is that, even with those numbers, no one has been clamoring for Turner since he came into the league. After his initial introduction to the league, no one was calling Turner a future star or even strong player, and then, as you noted, he really sunk it in Indy (and that was after being traded for a guy the Sixers just immediately waived). And then in an offseason where Jodie Meeks, Shaun Livingston and Swaggy P cashed in with big contracts with marginal talent, Turner had to wait three weeks in before finally landing somewhere. Something doesn't fit.

The numbers may be a match, but Green seems to be much better regarded than Turner.

[nol]

I don't really get the comparison because Green is closer to a PF, but he is a better three-point shooter, better at getting to the line, better defender (not even close, but this is more on Turner being not good at all than Green being an ace defender), and much less likely to turn it over.

Also, defensive effort is not reflected in PER at all. PER is purely plugging box score numbers into a formula that has some coefficients adjusting for pace. In fact, a bad defensive player who just gambles for steals would have a higher PER than a good defender who doesn't get as many steals if the two were relatively equal in terms of points, assists, rebounds, etc.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Or maybe even if he's not. $1.2 M?

Yeah, that's far and away the main thing - should have phrased it as "expect a lot of copycats as long as Mudiay doesn't implode and singlehandedly tank the market value for top high school players looking to play in China."

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by nol

I don't really get the comparison because Green is closer to a PF,

Huh? Green plays SF. Sullinger, Bass and Olynyk play PF on the Celtics. Green is most decidedly not a PF.

Originally Posted by nol

but he is a better three-point shooter,

Yup, but not by much. .344 to .326 lifetime. Turner, however, couldn't hit a cow in the ass with a shovel last year from the 3 point line (.288).

Originally Posted by nol

better at getting to the line,

Free throw stats were almost dead even last year.

Originally Posted by nol

better defender (not even close, but this is more on Turner being not good at all than Green being an ace defender),

True

Originally Posted by nol

and much less likely to turn it over.

True.

Originally Posted by nol

Also, defensive effort is not reflected in PER at all. PER is purely plugging box score numbers into a formula that has some coefficients adjusting for pace. In fact, a bad defensive player who just gambles for steals would have a higher PER than a good defender who doesn't get as many steals if the two were relatively equal in terms of points, assists, rebounds, etc.

Thanks for that clarification. He's also likely the better teammate.

However, Turner is by far the superior rebounder and playmaker, is 2 years younger and significantly cheaper. Really, these guys are pretty close and neither is all that great.

If I'm right, both Turner and Green have the same agent (Faulk). David Faulk wouldn't have placed Turner on the Cs only to get 10-15mpg as Green's backup. Since there's already a logjam at SG (Bradley, Thornton and Smart), he's got to pick up minutes at SF. That means Green is on the way out.

[stevew]

Supposedly something set to go down with Love

[cartman]

Originally Posted by stevew

Supposedly something set to go down with Love

Yeah. The Wright Amendment expires in October, meaning that Southwest Airlines will be able to fly non-stop from Love Field in Dallas to any destination they'd like, instead of being limited to cities in Texas or a state bordering Texas.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by stevew

Supposedly something set to go down with Love

Bulls trying to make a push, but I just don't see it. If what the Cavs are offering is true, they would be idiots to not take it.

[Groundhog]

Still holding out hope that Cavs refuse to include Wiggins. If that's the case, I think Warriors will end up winning, especially as Love would be a lock to sign there.

[Groundhog]

Cavs trade Carrick Felix, 1 million cash, and a future 2nd to the Jazz for 3 warm bodies with non-guaranteed contracts. Sounds like something is indeed about to happen... But if it is Wiggins, obviously there is going to be a significant wait, before its official at least.

[stevew]

2 warm bodies plus waiters and bennett works for love on the trade machine. Hoping that is the deal.

[Groundhog]

I don't place much stock in rumours, but latest is apparently the Cavs are holding back on a trade for Love that would see them keeping Wiggins due to a reluctance to surrender Miami/Memphis' future firsts. Too crazy to be true.

[Thomkal]

Mavericks' Felton pleads guilty in NYC gun case

[Matthean]

Wiggins signed so he can't be traded until at least Aug. 23rd.

[Groundhog]

So Lakers grab another former Cavs coach in Byron Scott. He's done a good job of milking those early NBA Finals appearances with the Nets... Given how rarely the Cavs seemed to actually run any plays with him on the sideline, it could be 'Iso #8' all game.

[MrBug708]

Lakers wanted a former laker player as HC.

[Izulde]

Yeah it's like they're doing everything they can to print money rather than care all that much about winning or putting themselves in line for a proper rebuild - the Kobe extension, the massive hyping/marketing of Clarkson (Filipino market) and Lin (Chinese market) that overstates their quality (much as I do like both players myself), the hiring of Scott.

[Dutch]

I would have much preferred seeing them hire Derek Fisher, if they had to go the ex-Laker player route. But only because I know more about Fisher than Scott and Fisher has always had an eye on coaching.

[Groundhog]

I have no idea how good a coach Fisher will be, but I'd take him over Scott solely because I do know how good a coach Scott is.

[stevew]

These are the last 17million dollars Byron Scott will make as an NBA Head Coach.

[BishopMVP]

Quote from a front page story on ESPN

Asked Tuesday if he might make a similar homecoming when he can become a free agent in two years, Durant said that was too far in the future to discuss in a serious way right now. "I'm going to do what's best for me," Durant said. "It's hard to talk about that right now when I've got two years left in Oklahoma City. I'm just going to focus on that. I'm not going to make a decision based on what anybody else does. I grew up watching the Bullets/Wizards. I grew up taking the train to that arena, all the time, to watch Georgetown, the Bullets, the Washington Mystics. That whole city is a part of me. It's in my blood. I love going back home, seeing my family and playing there, but I love Oklahoma City too."
Still, the speculation is hard to escape. Durant said he went home this summer for a family reunion but didn't go out much. Asked if that was because he's constantly asked about coming back to the D.C. area someday, Durant smiled and laughed.
"Look, we going to put it out on tape," Durant said. "It's been talked about. Everybody's asked me about it every time I go on Instagram or Twitter. All my friends ask me about it.

[whomario]

It was Kyle Korver appreciation day on grantland, apparently (and i approve of that )

How Kyle Korver Was Blinded by Jeff Hornacek’s Advice «

Kyle Korver: An Offense Unto Himself «

especially the latter article showcases why every basketball fan should give the Hawks a try. They are only boring if you find the Spurs boring. Korver has possibly done as much as anybody with his given talent. I recommend everybody to watch a Hawks game and try keep an eye on him rather than the ball for a few minutes here and there, guy is a magician at finding space.

[Groundhog]

I think the Joe Johnson-era has still left a stain on the Hawks... Honestly I don't think I watched a single Hawks game last season. Maybe only 1 or 2 teams I didn't bother to catch even once. It is probably similar to the Spurs actually in that they had that reputation as being a grind-it-out defensive-orientated team. It took a season or two of ridiculousness before the general public took notice.

[nol]

Speaking of Kyle Korver, there was a piece on him last year that was one of the most memorable ones I read. It really spoke volumes about dedication to one's craft.

Kyle Korver’s Big Night, and the Day on the Ocean That Made It Possible «

[Groundhog]

Paul George just suffered a horrendous ankle injury in the white-blue game.

Guessing broken ankle.

[Groundhog]

Actually looks like it's a lower leg break..... Do yourself a favour and do NOT find it on youtube. Feel horrible for him.

[stevew]

how does it rate on the Tim Krumrie/Theismann/Livingston scale?

[Groundhog]

It definitely belongs in the same discussion.

[stevew]

Well, unless we're playing 3 point guards I can't see us beating Spain now.

[RainMaker]

Just terrible. Sick to my stomach.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by stevew

how does it rate on the Tim Krumrie/Theismann/Livingston scale?

Pretty much the same as Ware for Louisville.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Actually looks like it's a lower leg break..... Do yourself a favour and do NOT find it on youtube. Feel horrible for him.

Definitely tibia/fibia break. Based off my extensive medical experience, I don't think any of the knee ligaments were affected. Not sure on the ankle, but if he avoided all ligament damage he could actually be back a lot quicker than people think... As horrifying as they look, Clean bone breaks are the least complicated recovery.

[RainMaker]

I think if it avoid arterial and nerve damage, he should be able to come back.

[INDalltheway]

Lots to look forward to as a Pacers fan..

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

Lots to look forward to as a Pacers fan..

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2015/

I think it was going to be a tougher year for the Pacers before this, but man, how are they going to put the ball in the basket now.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Definitely tibia/fibia break. Based off my extensive medical experience, I don't think any of the knee ligaments were affected. Not sure on the ankle, but if he avoided all ligament damage he could actually be back a lot quicker than people think... As horrifying as they look, Clean bone breaks are the least complicated recovery.

I hope so.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My 16 y/o made an interesting comparison I hadn't thought of (of course you know a teenager was going to watch the video): Sid Vicious

And sure enough, it is the same bones that Sid broke.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

Lots to look forward to as a Pacers fan..

It'll suck for a season but he should make a full recovery and is young. You at least have a top 10 player in the league going forward. Getting one of those is always the hardest part.

[murrayyyyy]

I hate to lay blame but this on is on Thomas & Mack or UNLV. I've always thought the stanchion was way too close in the past when I've worked the bench there(It's actually 2 feet closer than in NBA arenas). Shocked it doesn't happen more often to be honest.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I hate to lay blame but this on is on Cox or UNLV. I've always thought the stanchion was way too close in the past when I've worked the bench there(It's actually 2 feet closer than in NBA arenas). Shocked it doesn't happen more often to be honest.

The ones that really get me are the SEC arenas where the court is raised 4-5 feet... I'm always shocked if nothing bad happens there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The ones that really get me are the SEC arenas where the court is raised 4-5 feet... I'm always shocked if nothing bad happens there.

Off the top of my head only Vandy's design comes to mind. Minnesota has something similar.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The ones that really get me are the SEC arenas where the court is raised 4-5 feet... I'm always shocked if nothing bad happens there.

I'm pretty sure Noel got injured at Florida who has a crazy close one also.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Off the top of my head only Vandy's design comes to mind. Minnesota has something similar.

Vandy's the most egregious one, so that's probably why I associate it with SEC teams.

It really pisses me off too with football stadiums that have walls, or tracks, or hedges, less than 5 feet from the corner of the endzone.

[nol]

Looks like it's finally going to happen. You know, the thing everyone has been talking about.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

Looks like it's finally going to happen. You know, the thing everyone has been talking about.

Not for three more weeks.

[stevew]

It's all a dumb rule. I don't know if the Cavs really needed to actually trade him at 120% to make the money work, but the other option, trading him at $0 despite him having like a 4.7m hold was also dumb.

I wanted to keep Wiggins, but looking at how lucky we are to even get #1 means basically we get to keep Waiters. Because I think maybe otherwise we could have gotten him for Waiters, Bennett, #9(McDermott?)

I hope we're getting that 2nd year picked up ala Chris Paul, because I fear Love might just bolt if we have a troubled season. Also I know our coach is Israeli but I was hoping he wouldn't make any type of geopolitical type statements.

[nol]

Originally Posted by stevew

It's all a dumb rule. I don't know if the Cavs really needed to actually trade him at 120% to make the money work, but the other option, trading him at $0 despite him having like a 4.7m hold was also dumb.

I wanted to keep Wiggins, but looking at how lucky we are to even get #1 means basically we get to keep Waiters. Because I think maybe otherwise we could have gotten him for Waiters, Bennett, #9(McDermott?)

I hope we're getting that 2nd year picked up ala Chris Paul, because I fear Love might just bolt if we have a troubled season. Also I know our coach is Israeli but I was hoping he wouldn't make any type of geopolitical type statements.

Yeah, about that.. http://deadspin.com/israels-war-agai...and-1615468197

[Groundhog]

Can't wait to hear what his views are on Russia/MH17.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Not for three more weeks.

At this point, it's more about the closure.

Also, somehow the Timberwolves' GM managed to make a smart move the Timberwolves' coach probably wasn't as in favor of. Didn't know you had it in you, Flip! Well, it probably would have been even better if they had just made whichever deal they eventually make before the draft (since they then could have fielded offers for the #1 pick even if they didn't like Wiggins as much), but I guess that could be some 20-20 hindsight where I'm making the minor assumption that since LeBron signed with Cleveland even though they didn't have Kevin Love yet, he definitely would have signed if they already had the deal completed.

Originally Posted by nol on June 6

I was gonna say when people were talking about Kevin Love that the Wolves would be better off striking a deal with the Cavs centered around the first pick and then trying to move down a couple spots from there.

Those two deals would probably be the best haul of cheap young players they could get, which is absolutely what they should be doing since none of these Warriors/Celtics/Bulls offers would make them any better in 14-15 than what they were this season. Don't think the 76ers would give up 3 and 10 for 1 since they seem like they'd be fine with whoever's left at 3, but they don't necessarily need to move down when some team could come out of left field with an offer like when OKC wanted the Brad Beal pick for Harden.

edit: and now that the Kevin Love saga is behind us, I'm even more excited for the basketball World Cup than before. I think the USA will be extra motivated to put on a dominant performance for Paul George (side note, I still haven't watched that replay. Or Kevin Ware's. Or Shaun Livingston's. I was fine with observing some pretty intense surgeries when I was younger, but watching the injury itself is just something that gives me the shivers). In addition to that, I'll be rooting hard for Ukraine - my uncle's an assistant coach on Mike Fratello's staff there. They're in America's group, along with Turkey, the Dominican Republic, New Zealand, and Finland, so hopefully they at least advance to the next round.

[Groundhog]

Although I hate to see Wiggins go, it will be interesting to see what happens with Waiters now. In theory having a guy like LeBron on the team should do wonders for Waiters and Irving, especially on defense, but with Waiters it's hard to know how he'll react when LeBron gets on him a couple of times... could go either way - he'll either develop into a great two way guard, or pout his way out of Cleveland.

Bennett as a Sixer, if true, should work out well for him. I think he's poised for a big year, especially in a place where he'll have all the minutes he needs.