Random Thoughts That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Go Here

[Suicane75]

I dunno, those all seem like perfectly good uses for water.

[Breeze]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere this water challenge has increased donations for ALS 4x...(could be off on that, but I remember it being significant).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I dunno, those all seem like perfectly good uses for water.

And raising money for a debilitating incurable disease that strikes young men isn't?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And raising money for a debilitating incurable disease that strikes young men isn't?

My brother has a friend whose father was diagnosed with ALS like...2 years ago. It's pretty fucking chilling to see the effect that it has on healthy people. I'm 100% behind this challenge. Even if it just pings around people's FB pages until it somehow gets a celebrity to do it and donate (because you know as someone said that all the celebs will end up donating), it's totally worth it.

[heybrad]

I've been slightly perturbed by the whole thing but it is good to see the increase in donations. My annoyance seems to have more to do with this seeming to be a 'would you rather' type of scenario. Would you rather give a decent donation to a charity or would you rather dump ice on your head. It'd be nice to see some videos where people accepted the challenge of a significant donation.

And yes, I know I need to get over myself.

[Logan]

They haven't seen a 766% increase in donations (the last number I saw) because people aren't dumping buckets on their heads. Many people are doing both.

[Arles]

My first comment was "I'm glad that money to ALS is up, and maybe that makes the rest of this OK". The problem is that raising money and awareness for ALS is a small subplot in this whole process. Raising money for ALS or even raising awareness isn't the intent for 80% of the people who do this silly ice challenge. I'd be shocked if even 40% actually donated money or even mention ALS in their facebook "look at me" videos. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I've always looked at donating to charity as a very personal thing that is done to help a cause you believe in.

But, I do see the other side in that the ALS Association is a great charity and more people donating to it is something that should be encouraged in most cases. I'm just not a huge fan of this method. But, again, maybe the ends justify the means.

[ISiddiqui]

Regardless of increases in giving, don't people think the entire idea of humiliation for money is a pernicious one? I mean what are we saying here? That you shouldn't be expected to give to a good cause unless someone else humiliates themselves? It's like the reality show-ification of charitable giving.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Arles

I'd be shocked if even 40% actually donated money or even mention ALS in their facebook "look at me" videos. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I've always looked at donating to charity as a very personal thing that is done to help a cause you believe in.

This is your problem. This a big assumption on your part and it's driving the rest of your issues.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Regardless of increases in giving, don't people think the entire idea of humiliation for money is a pernicious one? I mean what are we saying here? That you shouldn't be expected to give to a good cause unless someone else humiliates themselves? It's like the reality show-ification of charitable giving.

Becoming cold for a few minutes is "humiliation"? Huh?

[Arles]

The flip side is that what is a majority of people who have a budget for charity end up spending their money on ALS research instead of their "normal cause". Would it be better for less money to go into cancer research or the Boys and Girls Club because everyone "blew their wad" on this ice-bucket gimmick? What if next year someone makes up a charity that isn't as upstanding as the ALS Association and pulls a similar stunt that takes money away?

It's a little said when the best increase in charitable giving in this country in years involves a large portion of donations/activity from people who don't know anything about the charity nor even care. The more I look at this, the more it resembles a glorified pyramid scheme to hoodwink/strong arm people into making some kind of donation to a cause probably not very important to them. I'm not sure this behavior is one we should champion moving forward. But, again, to many the ends justify the means so let's look forward to next year's reality TV challenge!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Logan

This is your problem. This a big assumption on your part and it's driving the rest of your issues.

So you think people would be donating to ALS without this challenge? Just look at how many people on Facebook/Twitter offer any explanation of "ALS" as part of their ice bucket stunt. I'm guessing 40% is high, very high compared to the actual instances.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Arles

So you think people would be donating to ALS without this challenge? Just look at how many people on Facebook/Twitter offer any explanation of "ALS" as part of their ice bucket stunt. I'm guessing 40% is high, very high compared to the actual instances.

That isn't even close to what I said. It's what you said. Why are you calling this "look at me"? Because it's on social media?

[Chief Rum]

What's the worst thing that can happen here? Someone douses his head for charity but doesn't donate, doing it only for attention and likes? Meanwhile, donations are up massively for this charity.

If I cared more what y'all thought, I would be disturbed that some of you have any problem with this at all. I see that as a "you" issue.

I don't see anything wrong with a little stupidity and even self-serving which results in more money for a good cause.

[CU Tiger]

I guess I am lost.
Donations to a great cause.
No one injured in the process.
Tons of good and no harm.

What could there possibly be to bitch about?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Logan

That isn't even close to what I said. It's what you said. Why are you calling this "look at me"? Because it's on social media?

Because most people that I've seen (again, maybe a small sample of 20-30 people):

1. Don't mention ALS at all in their video
2. Don't end up donating to ALS after their stunt.

If you don't mention the cause or even explain what ALS is AND don't donate any money - what other reason are you posting this on facebook other than "hey, look at me!".

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I guess I am lost.
Donations to a great cause.
No one injured in the process.
Tons of good and no harm.

What could there possibly be to bitch about?

Haven't you learned, CU? There is ALWAYS something to bitch about!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I guess I am lost.
Donations to a great cause.
No one injured in the process.
Tons of good and no harm.

What could there possibly be to bitch about?

Why did people complain about Lebron's decision? No one was injured, no harm done and millions went to charity from it. Yet, a large percentage of people here didn't like it. Are we never allowed to have a pause with people's tactics as long as the end up donating to charity?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Because most people that I've seen (again, maybe a small sample of 20-30 people):

1. Don't mention ALS at all in their video
2. Don't end up donating to ALS after their stunt.

If you don't mention the cause or even explain what ALS is AND don't donate any money - what other reason are you posting this on facebook other than "hey, look at me!".

So you have this opinion of this enormous successful charitable drive because of the actions of 20 or 30 people, who, by the way, you have chosen to associate with. Got it.

And how would you possibly know that your second point is accurate?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Logan

So you have this opinion of this enormous successful charitable drive because of the actions of 20 or 30 people, who, by the way, you have chosen to associate with. Got it.

There have been over 1.2 million videos for the icebucket challenge on Facebook and about 260,000 new donations to ALS over that same time (per NY Times). I don't think my example is that far off the truth when 25ish% of the people who have made a video end up donating per the numbers. If everyone who posted a video on facebook for the icebucket challenge donated just $25, over $30 million would have been raised for ALS (and many celebs who posted videos are on record as donating $100). Instead, about $4 million has been raised (per Forbes). The math doesn't add up.

Originally Posted by Logan

And how would you possibly know that your second point is accurate?

Because over half have said in their video that they didn't donate and instead did the challenge. Do you think they are lying?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Logan

Becoming cold for a few minutes is "humiliation"? Huh?

You are dumping ice water on yourself for the benefit of others, what do you think it is?

I've even seen some videos with comments like "The water wasn't cold enough; he didn't even flinch".

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

Why did people complain about Lebron's decision? No one was injured, no harm done and millions went to charity from it. Yet, a large percentage of people here didn't like it. Are we never allowed to have a pause with people's tactics as long as the end up donating to charity?

Indeed. I think at some point, it is fine and even necessarily too look at the means of something that has good ends.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Arles

The more I look at this, the more it resembles a glorified pyramid scheme to hoodwink/strong arm people into making some kind of donation to a cause probably not very important to them.

You just described most of the viral "campaigns" I've ever see tbh.

But such is the nature of viral anything. Remember this one? (the link is about the "give the abused busdriver a vacation" indiegogo and what it spawned)
The Perils Of Viral Charity

Heck, viral non-profits is now even a specific category that gets tracked
Red Nose Day is the Most Viral Charity Campaigns of 2013 : Visible Measures

And it's something that's taught/promoted/encouraged
How to make a charity campaign video that will appeal to the public at large | Voluntary Sector Network | Guardian Professional

And as this recent article notes (I believe your link had the same mention) if you succeed on some level then it will basically be stolen/borrowed/repurposed by someone else
When charity goes viral - Life & Style - NZ Herald News

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Arles

There have been over 1.2 million videos for the icebucket challenge on Facebook and about 260,000 new donations to ALS over that same time (per NY Times). I don't think my example is that far off the truth when 25ish% of the people who have made a video end up donating per the numbers. If everyone who posted a video on facebook for the icebucket challenge donated just $25, over $30 million would have been raised for ALS (and many celebs who posted videos are on record as donating $100). Instead, about $4 million has been raised (per Forbes). The math doesn't add up.


Because over half have said in their video that they didn't donate and instead did the challenge. Do you think they are lying?

Just because people don't donate right away doesn't mean the raised awareness isn't helpful. They may donate down the road, or assist in a cause to raise money like a 5k or something.

It's like advertising. Not everyone who sees a McDonald's commercial runs out and buys a Mcrib that instant but the existence of it becomes a part of their conscious and they are aware of its existince

[Arles]

Given few people actually mention what ALS is and even fewer mention how you can donate to support the cause, how are these videos raising awareness for ALS? It's like having a McDonalds commercial for a McRibb with no mention of McDonalds or no mention of the sandwich itself. Once the Hollywood/celeb community tires of this, the donations will start to get back to normal and very few people who participated in this will have any raised awareness towards ALS.

[Logan]

Maybe you should just get better friends.

[thesloppy]

Meh. It is great that this particular cause has ended up raising awareness for a little-known disease, and increasing donations to a well-regarded charity, but it seems a little self-righteous to pretend that it hasn't been preceded by an endless parade of questionable slacktivist causes for attention and/or massive cash-grabs disguised as awareness campaigns (hello there, pink NFL/NBA/NHL merchandise), and has therefore earned some degree of questioning or cynicism, even if only for serving it up in the same questionable social-media/celebrity driven fashion.

[sabotai]

Today, I learned a valuable lesson about how not to hold a vegetable peeler...

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Today, I learned a valuable lesson about how not to hold a vegetable peeler...

a refreshing return to the thread topic. thanks!

[Suburban Rhythm]

I collected the tears of people bitching about the challenge, and froze them, to make my own ice before accepting the challenge. I felt it had more meaning that way.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Arles

Given few people actually mention what ALS is and even fewer mention how you can donate to support the cause, how are these videos raising awareness for ALS? It's like having a McDonalds commercial for a McRibb with no mention of McDonalds or no mention of the sandwich itself. Once the Hollywood/celeb community tires of this, the donations will start to get back to normal and very few people who participated in this will have any raised awareness towards ALS.

Some and more is better than few and none.

It is mind blowing to me how tone deaf you are about this.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Some and more is better than few and none.

It is mind blowing to me how tone deaf you are about this.

So, basically, people can complain about Lebron being self-aggrandizing by having an hour show called "The Decision" - despite the show raising millions to a charity in the process.

But, other people shouldn't complain about hundreds of people being self-aggrandizing and dumping water on their head with no explanation of the charity and them stating they didn't donate any money - all because millions ended up going to charity?

I still fail to see the difference between the two. Since when did "money went to charity" trump a questionable process/display? It certainly wasn't the case back in 2010.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, basically, people can complain about Lebron being self-aggrandizing by having an hour show called "The Decision" - despite the show raising millions to a charity in the process.

But, other people shouldn't complain about hundreds of people being self-aggrandizing and dumping water on their head with no explanation of the charity and them stating they didn't donate any money - all because millions ended up going to charity?

I still fail to see the difference between the two. Since when did "money went to charity" trump a questionable process/display? It certainly wasn't the case back in 2010.

Dumping ice on one's head =! making a free agent decision, which affected millions of fans and a whole league for years, in a less than classy manner.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Dumping ice on one's head =! making a free agent decision, which affected millions of fans and a whole league for year, in a less than classy manner.

Well now wait, the latter was exponentially more interesting.

I'm not necessarily all that bent about the ice water videos but even coverage of the controversy about The Decision was more interesting.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well now wait, the latter was exponentially more interesting.

I'm not necessarily all that bent about the ice water videos but even coverage of the controversy about The Decision was more interesting.

I agree. Interesting isn't really the argument Arles is putting forth, though.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Dumping ice on one's head =! making a free agent decision, which affected millions of fans and a whole league for years, in a less than classy manner.

I guess I'd like to know the "rules" on when it is OK to criticize an event that ends up with millions going to charity. Was Cleveland really a big enough city to warrant all the criticism for Lebron? I mean, there are certainly thousands if not millions of aggravated people in regards to "witnessing" this ice challenge. Are those people less important than the NBA fans in Cleveland who were impacted by the Decision? Is it not the number of people but instead how "classy" it is?

[cartman]

Arles, heat stroke isn't a joke. Go get checked out.

On to another topic, since I've moved back from Italy (can't believe it is now 10 years) I've been trying to make gelato at home. I have a DeLonghi gelato machine, and have tried dozens and dozens of different recipes. Some are completely from scratch, and others use a commercial base. I think I might have stumbled upon the best one yet, and it is by far the easiest. Instead of using egg yolks in the recipe as the emulsifier, it uses regular ol' corn starch. So the base is dead simple: 3 cups of milk, 2/3 cup of sugar and 1.5 tbsp of corn starch. Just made a batch of almond gelato, and it was spot on. Smooth, creamy, no ice crystals, and perfect consistency.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Dumping ice on one's head =! making a free agent decision, which affected millions of fans and a whole league for years, in a less than classy manner.

But isn't the argument is that it doesn't matter how the folks do it, they are raising money?

The Decision (TV special - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The announcement, which was not made until nearly 30 minutes into the program, was part of a conversation between James and Gray.[7] Broadcast from the Boys and Girls Club of Greenwich, Connecticut, the show raised $2.5 million for the charity.[8] The show raised an additional $3.5 million from advertisement revenue which was donated to other various charities.[8]

[stevew]

Someone needs to do a lays Cappucino potato chip challenge. Either eat a whole bowlful or dump the whole bag on your head. Crunched up of course. And the wavy lays mango salsa chips are nastier than I expected. I halfways expect all these chips to get sent out overseas with the Broncos Super Bowl shirts and the Heat 3-peat shirts

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Lathum

And raising money for a debilitating incurable disease that strikes young men isn't?

You can't water your lawn or take a shower without using water. I guess you could use coke or something, I dunno.

[nol]

It's becoming more widely accepted in psychology that morality/altruism/a lot of what we would label as a virtue is more of a finite resource than an fixed character/cultural trait. It's very simple to create an experiment in which a group of subjects assigned to do something selfless is more likely to lie/cheat/steal in a subsequent task than those who were assigned to first do something neutral.

For most of people that donate, doing the ice bucket challenge will fulfill their "charitable giving" quota for the year. Without getting into the questions of "Is donating to ALS better than donating to [insert other cause], and is this particular charity going to provide the most bang for my buck?" (I'll just assume yes for both without actually looking at whatever charity it is, although a general rule of thumb for medical causes is that the number of times they mention "awareness" is inversely related to how seriously to take them.), the concern is more about the precedent it sets for whatever the next viral cause is.

Just looking at the methods and not the amount of funds raised or the merits of the particular charities, this one and KONY2012 both are successful due to people's desire to broadcast their altruism to others. That's not bad on its own, but both throw in these little twists before the social media portion that make people feel like they've "given" more than they actually have.

In Kony's case, people first spent half an hour watching a sad video. This one actually increases the "stakes" by having people first suffer a nominal amount of physical pain/public humiliation before sharing (can't think of any other organizations that successfully *frat* employ this tactic to make people feel more invested in a cause). Without even factoring in the potentially parasitic event it could have on less viral charities, it's easy to foresee a race to the bottom that takes the average person's donation from "$30 and wore a bracelet/watched a video about Kony" to "$20 and dumped a bucket of ice on my head" to "$10 and went streaking for testicular cancer."

For medical research especially, progress is incremental, expensive, and decidedly not sexy. For the cost of a single DNA sequencer I'm sure you could instead buy a pretty awesome VIP package and hang out with celebrities at some gala event that raises awareness for HIV/cancer/ALS.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Arles

Why did people complain about Lebron's decision? No one was injured, no harm done and millions went to charity from it. Yet, a large percentage of people here didn't like it. Are we never allowed to have a pause with people's tactics as long as the end up donating to charity?

To be fair, I think you will find on this forum several post where I defended LeBron and said even though it was poorly received the fact that it raised $2MM for charity made it a win in my book.

I like to look at the net effect I suppose and in this case (both or these cases) I think the net is the betterment of society with no negative fall out.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

To be fair, I think you will find on this forum several post where I defended LeBron and said even though it was poorly received the fact that it raised $2MM for charity made it a win in my book.

I like to look at the net effect I suppose and in this case (both or these cases) I think the net is the betterment of society with no negative fall out.

+1

[CU Tiger]

BTW ALS announced this morning that they had raised $22MM in 22 days, which exceeded their entire amount for the 2013 year.

I classify it this way, "It is always the right time to do the right thing."

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

You can't water your lawn or take a shower without using water. I guess you could use coke or something, I dunno.

Brawndo with electrolytes. It's got what plants crave.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Arles

I guess I'd like to know the "rules" on when it is OK to criticize an event that ends up with millions going to charity. Was Cleveland really a big enough city to warrant all the criticism for Lebron? I mean, there are certainly thousands if not millions of aggravated people in regards to "witnessing" this ice challenge. Are those people less important than the NBA fans in Cleveland who were impacted by the Decision? Is it not the number of people but instead how "classy" it is?

This is a sports board. Lebron's decision had a sports impact. Lebron is a sports personality whose decisions are parsed and re-parsed and gone over a million times, just because of who he is. His decison had a massive impact on not just Cleveland fans, but Miami fans, NBA fans, sports fans, sports business, and the world in general, given LeBron's status. That was a massive moment which was going to draw comment from everyone, whether it raised money for charities or not.

Dumping ice on one's head simply does not compare. If you're really aggravated about this to the point you think you are on the same level as a Cleveland fan around that time (stevew, Groundhog, you guys want to kick in here), then you really need to get over yourself.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But isn't the argument is that it doesn't matter how the folks do it, they are raising money?

The Decision (TV special - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The Decision wasn't about raising money. It had its own impact, regardless of charity. No one is criticizing LeBron raising money with the Decision. Everyone criticized LeBron about the sports impact of the Decision and the manner in which he chose to do it.

[DaddyTorgo]

"There are thousands if not millions of aggravated people in regards to witnessing this ice challenge?"

-Really? MILLIONS? THOUSANDS even?

Is there a facebook group I can view that can demonstrate those claims by the number of its members or something, or is this just some hyperbole?

[cartman]

Here's the background on how the whole ice bucket challenge started:

[stevew]

A Compilation Of People Fucking Up The Ice Bucket Challenge

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

"There are thousands if not millions of aggravated people in regards to witnessing this ice challenge?"

-Really? MILLIONS? THOUSANDS even?

Is there a facebook group I can view that can demonstrate those claims by the number of its members or something, or is this just some hyperbole?

I'd say that's a fair guesstimate. This is not the only time/place/person I've seen bothered by it.

I mean, it's something that's gotten traction of its own in the blogosphere

You Can All Stop Doing the Ice Bucket Challenge Now

Icebucketchallenge: You don't need an ice bucket to donate to ALS research.

And the ire is itself now a topic for articles as well
Stop hating on the ice bucket challenge — it’s raised millions of dollars for charity - The Washington Post