Werewolf XXXVI: Resident Evil (S.T.A.R.S. Wins! Post #1424)

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, I agree that they have to think hard about it. But we quickly losing the numbers game with all the STARS rank-and-file going down.

Down to 13 players now, will likely lose 1-2 tonight between conversions and/or kills, and we are probably going to hash through the obvious candidates tomorrow (me and Alan atop the list).

If the Sniper feels that I'm more likely to be bad than Alan, they should take me out. If I was the sniper it would be a stone cold, lead pipe lock that I would shoot Alan. But whoever has that role gets to make whatever they feel is the best decision - including inaction as a possibility.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Alan T

it was my calling him out about fouts that people used to lynch him. It might not show in the votes, but it was there if you go back to read the conversation of the day.

Alan, I don't see it. Prove me wrong.


This is what I've got:
On page 21 (starting at 5:01 pm with post 601), Lathum hasn't really drawn any attention yet. You don't mention him in your posts -- you're still pushing st.cronin.

On page 22 things get rolling...
631: Fouts votes BrianD
632-639: Mostly about hoops and his scanning thing
640: Hoops gets on Lathum about his day 1 behavior
641: I vote BrianD... I wanted to vote for Lathum but didn't want to start things (I have no proof for this assertion).
642: path12 casts the first vote for Lathum
643: hoops casts the second vote for Lathum
651: Alan's first post of the page, no analysis to speak of, mild endorsement of Lathum as a third candidate as Fouts and I are encouraged not to vote for BrianD.
652: Alan's reply to Glengoyne that doesn't mention any other player
653-655: Lathum and hoops trade arguments
658: SnDvls votes Alan
659-660: Alan and Fouts trade replies, with only st.cronin and BrianD mentioned

On to page 23...
661-664: Alan and Fouts, no mention of any other live player besides st.cronin
665: Tyrith votes Lathum
666: Alan still pressing st.cronin with Fouts, says he's been discussing alternative candidates like Lathum and BrianD (with no further argument)
667: Alan comments on the driveby by Sndvls, no other player mentioned
671: Alan to Tyrith claiming to be open to other alternatives, nothing specific mentioned.
673: Alan to Tyrith, stop being so sensitive
675: Alan, generic strategy
678-679: Alan, justification of bullet and cronin, no other player mentioned
680: Hoops notes that it's 4-4-3, Alan-st.cronin-Lathum.
682: Alan again, discussion with Tyrith involving st.cronin only
685: Alan, thinks between Fouts and st.c give 93% odds and 99.9% certain st.c is bad, no other player mentioned
686: st.cronin offers an odd comment about hoops and Lathum
687, 689: Alan, bland post not mentioning anyone

At this point, we're up to 8:30, and on to page 24...
691-692: Alan and hoops, brief discussion of a mathematical scenario with no specific players mentioned
693: Alan reply to st.c, generic strategy
696/698: LSG unvotes Alan and votes Lathum
697: Hoops tries to make sense of st.c's comment in 686
700: Glengoyne votes Sndvls
701: Alan reply to LSG, "at least I've been amusing"
705: Alan recaps votes, "a tie is bad."
710: Alan strategy discussion with hoops only mentioning Bullet and the chief
712: Alan reply to LSG, "might be reading this wrong"
713: Alan reply to Fouts, "lynching me is better than a tie."
714: st.cronin votes Lathum
(if you're doing the math at home, that's five votes on Lathum without Alan wavering from his push to lynch someone else)
716: Alan, "I don't have an important role, if a STARS has to die it should be me."
718: Fouts, why KWhit?
719: hoops, don't think first two votes on bullet bear on cronin's identity

We're up to 9 pm, and on to page 25...
721: Fouts, Sndvls is acting suspicious but it's too late to pile on him
723: Alan, too many conversations at once, now says he thinks cronin is bad not because of the odds but because of day 1 behavior
731: Alan, vote recap, Glengoyne doesn't need to worry about a tie because we're not tied!
732: Alan, "I don't have a huge problem with [Glengoyne's vote for Sndvls] since Sndvls definitly wasn't very honest earlier and he's on my radar. Im not switching to him though today since Im going to stick with my vote."
736: Alan, replying to st.cronin's post, chief strategy involving KWhit
740: Alan, off to dinner
741: Fouts, unvote BrianD and vote Sndvls
744: Fouts offers his ideas on candidates, seems to favor st.cronin out of the top three, negative comments about BrianD and Sndvls [ed: Interesting post that we might want to come back to.]
746: BrianD, why suspcious of me?
750: Alan, I've caught up

It's 10 pm, we're moving on to page 26, and Alan still hasn't come out against Lathum.
751: Fouts, what do we learn from Lathum's lynch?
752: Lathum, ask me questions
753: ntndeacon, I pulled Fouts name out of my ass
754: Alan, reply to Fouts saying we learn about Fouts from Lathum's lynch, if he's bad maybe we should go after Fouts next, but relatively noncommittal
755: Alan, crack about 753
756: Fouts, 752 is a classic wolf post
757: Tyrith, we need to kill one of Lathum, Alan, st.c, some mild discussion
760: Fouts: 754 is saying that if Lathum's bad, I'm bad, if Lathum's good, I still might be bad.
762: Alan, smiling about 760
763: Alan, opposite take on st.c from hoops, certain that he's bad
765: hoops, if Alan and I are on the same team then one will have an "I told you so" for the other
766: Lathum, 756 will make people suspicious of Fouts, go ahead with questions
768: Alan, "Just a question to the lathum voters.. while I don't have a huge problem with you going after Lathum, just curious what we are going to do from here?"
772: Brian, reminds us of st.cronin's "you all suck, I'm going home" self-vote
773: Tyrith, I prefer Sndvls tomorrow
774: Alan, why doesn't Tyrith go after him today; tomorrow, if Lathum is bad, I go after Fouts [ed: or not, he went after st.c again anyway]
775: Alan, it's going as I predicted, early rush on st.c then a surge to tie it up
778: Tyrith, replying to 774, not voting for Sndvls because on of the troika need to die today
779: Alan, recapping the vote behavior of 775
780: Lathum, st.cronin has switched his vote twice to create ties

It's 10:30 pm, and we're moving to page 27.
781: hoops, not sure what data to take from Lathum lynch either way
783: Alan, oops, vote blowup took two hrs and not just one
786: Alan, lengthier voting recap
787: Tyrith, replay to 780, but it was with hour remaining, you're desperate
788: Alan, commenting on CR
790-791: Alan, commenting on Tyrith and LSG voting together, and CR and ntn need to vote
793: Alan, post count
795: Lathum, reply to 787, but he switches to the popular candidate
797: Alan, we've had a guest around all day
799: Chief Rum, don't like Lathum as a bad guy, vote st.cronin
803: Chief Rum, why is a tie bad?
804: Alan, if your vote creates a tie, I vote for you tomorrow
806: Alan, tie means no lynch
810: Chief Rum, unvote st.cronin, vote Lathum

10:50 pm, time for page 28...
811: Alan, best let ntn make his vote or you both could inadvertently tie
812: Chief Rum, Lathum is not clear in my mind, don't think he's a zombie, but we need a lynch
815: Alan, we get to see if anyone tries to save Lathum at the deadline
816: Chief Rum, voted Lathum because someone has to die
817: ntndeacon, vote Lathum
818: Alan, don't by Lathum's last-second desperation play [ed: Lathum's elided]
820: CR, don't know what to make of Sndvls right now
826: Alan, won't punish CR for the vote

** Deadline **

If the supposed calling out did occur earlier in the day, it was not IMO proximate enough to the votes to have influenced them. At best, Alan has delusions of grandeur; at worst, he's Umbrella trying to distance himself from the push of st.cronin over Lathum.

I'm backing the second, personally, and only for this reason (I do not have any role-based insight).

This is not an argument to lynch Alan tomorrow... in fact, I think things are getting tight enough that we can't afford to worry about Umbrella, we need a zombie.

[hoopsguy]

Alan will argue that he called out Lathum early in Day 2. But he never acted on it with votes and he questioned people who were voting for Lathum (what will you learn from it? we learn from Cronin, etc).

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Fouts, I agree that they have to think hard about it. But we quickly losing the numbers game with all the STARS rank-and-file going down.

Down to 13 players now, will likely lose 1-2 tonight between conversions and/or kills, and we are probably going to hash through the obvious candidates tomorrow (me and Alan atop the list).

If the Sniper feels that I'm more likely to be bad than Alan, they should take me out. If I was the sniper it would be a stone cold, lead pipe lock that I would shoot Alan. But whoever has that role gets to make whatever they feel is the best decision - including inaction as a possibility.

I'm leaning toward Alan being Umbrella, and here's why:
* Completely noncommittal about lynching Lathum, continued to strongly push st.cronin
* Trying today to make it seem like lynching Lathum was his idea all along

Do you have a good argument for him being a zombie?

[Fouts]

Nice post Mr. W. Some interesting stuff in there.

[hoopsguy]

No, I do not have a strong reason to believe he is more likely Zombie than Umbrella. And, rereading the rule, that person has to kill themselves if they shoot Umbrella as well. Crap, thought they just had to avoid STARS.

[LoneStarGirl]

Ugh this is so frusterating. It seems alanT and hoop said Cronin is bad and 5 people said okay, if alan and hoop said it then it must be true... I agree that Alan isn't a zombie, and hoops probably isn't either, so the people who voted after them is who we should look at.

[BrianD]

Do we know what the weekend schedule is?

[LoneStarGirl]

Path (1137), BrianD (1143), Spleen (1151), Rum (1199), MrW (1216)

Path was the first person to vote for lathum, so that pretty much clears him... and MrW and Rum have been flying UTR for the most part ( i know i have too, dont yell at me ) so i am putting my suspicion onto them

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Path (1137), BrianD (1143), Spleen (1151), Rum (1199), MrW (1216)

Path was the first person to vote for lathum, so that pretty much clears him... and MrW and Rum have been flying UTR for the most part ( i know i have too, dont yell at me ) so i am putting my suspicion onto them

How does Path voting first clear him? It means he probably isn't Umbrella, but it doesn't mean he isn't a zombie.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

No, I do not have a strong reason to believe he is more likely Zombie than Umbrella. And, rereading the rule, that person has to kill themselves if they shoot Umbrella as well. Crap, thought they just had to avoid STARS.

Yeah, that already came up once before.

As I've already said, I think our numbers are getting short enough that we can't stick with any non-STARS is a good non-STARS any longer.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Path (1137), BrianD (1143), Spleen (1151), Rum (1199), MrW (1216)

Path was the first person to vote for lathum, so that pretty much clears him... and MrW and Rum have been flying UTR for the most part ( i know i have too, dont yell at me ) so i am putting my suspicion onto them

Nope, path could still be a zombie. That don't care which faction they kill.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Yeah, that already came up once before.

As I've already said, I think our numbers are getting short enough that we can't stick with any non-STARS is a good non-STARS any longer.

What are you saying here? Killing STARS or Umbrella helps the zombies.

[hoopsguy]

LSG, lets take a look at the voting records for the people who voted on Cronin today.

Alan - Bullet, Cronin, Cronin (3 votes for STARS)
Hoops - Bullet, Lathum, Cronin (2 votes for STARS, 1 vote for Umbrella)
Path - Cronin, Lathum, Cronin (2 votes for STARS, 1 vote for Umbrella)
BrianD - Cronin, Cronin, Cronin (3 votes for STARS)
Spleen - Bullet, AlanT, Cronin (2 votes for STARS)
Chief - Bullet, Lathum, Cronin (2 votes for STARS, 1 vote for Umbrella)*
MrW - Bullet, BrianD, Cronin (2 votes for STARS)

* - Chief initially voted for Cronin, then changed it to Lathum when realizing it would create a tie

[hoopsguy]

When Path cast the first vote the total was 4-4 between Alan and Cronin, correct?

[LoneStarGirl]

I didn't think about Path and the umbrella thing, you guys are right. I just think everybody is going to jump on Alan again and its going to cause an easy way for zombies and umbrellas alike to jump on the bandwagon and avoid suspicion again.

[hoopsguy]

Just trying to think this through - you have Alan (Umbrella/Zombie) against Cronin (STARS) - if Alan was a Zombie would they think about bringing a new candidate into the discussion or just push on Cronin? Doesn't seem like much value-add to bring another Umbrella in ...

I think the only way they bring a new candidate in is if they do not think that Alan can win a showdown against Cronin, so they have to change the conversation. They have Tyrith pegged on a role (they killed him last night) and I'm stating that I won't kill Cronin ...

Need to go check post order here, see if I'm remembering events from yesterday afternoon in the right order.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Fouts

What are you saying here? Killing STARS or Umbrella helps the zombies.

No, I'm saying that the STARS numbers are getting low enough that I don't think we (STARS) can afford to lump Umbrella and zombies together any more.

[BrianD]

I'm wondering if Alan really thought Cronin was a zombie, or if it was a play to take out another STARS member. It seems like an odd strategy to ask to be lynched if he is wrong...knowing that he is wrong. Of course he may be banking on the fact that people won't lynch him thinking he wouldn't ask to be lynched if he was bad.....if that made any sense.

[hoopsguy]

Post #625 (4:44 PM CST) - Path asks if anyone believes both Cronin and AlanT are STARS?

There is a lot of conversation after this about looking for a 3rd candidate - MrW, Tyrith, me, Fouts

Post #635 (5:05 PM) - Path asks Saldana if he still feels that Cronin is a good guy, quoting something he said earlier

Post #640 (5:19 PM) - I challenge Lathum

Post #641 (5:22 PM) - MrW votes for BrianD

Post #642 (5:23 PM) - Path fires a vote for Lathum

[Mr. Wednesday]

hoops, looking at that history, path was itching for someone else to vote for. I was too. I had some reasons for being interested in Lathum, in fact, but was hoping someone else would kick it off (as path did, but after I left, unfortunately).

Assuming, arguendo, that Alan's Umbrella...
...then path's play would be risky for a zombie from a trust point of view, because he could be moving votes off of an Umbrella player onto a STARS. As is, the vote is a win/win for the zombies.

Assuming, arguendo, that Alan is a zombie...
...then path's play isn't quite as risky for a zombie, in the sense that he's only moving votes off of one unknown and not two, but he's still got a perfectly good alternative to Alan that's being pushed hard, and probably could have carried (remember, Chief Rum initially voted for st.cronin). One possibility, though... concern about the large bloc of unconvinced voters who might go onto BrianD?

[Fouts]

I'm having an easier time placing players into the Umbrella faction. I can't figure out who the zombies are though. Lets hope somebody sees something tonight. The zombies have been way too lucky.

[hoopsguy]

That is the evolution of Path's vote for Lathum. Now lets look at the conversation taking place around it with the vote tied 4-4 that might worry Alan (and his teammates) about their ability to win the race yesterday with Cronin.

Post #602 (4:11 PM) Tyrith ties the vote at 4-4 by unvoting Fouts and voting for Alan. He has played his hand at this point, indicating he will protect Cronin on this day "I really don't want to kill Cronin"

Post #607 (4:15 PM) Alan is now home, laments the vote swing while he was away

Post #609 (4:21 PM) Mr W does not want a Cronin/Alan face-off (non-commital on where he would go here)

Post #610 (4:23 PM) SnDvls feels same way based on non-vote

Post #612 (4:23 PM) Alan says he is fine with another candidate

Post #616 (4:25 PM) LSG doesn't want Cronin/Alan either "but I can't shake the feeling that Alan is playing us ... probably sympathizing with Cronin"

Post #617 (4:27 PM) Tyrith asks how STARS can know to save Alan? Says he is willing to try Fouts again

Post #618 (4:30 PM) Cronin asks if people have thoughts on Lathum, Brian, or me

Post #620 (4:36 PM) Tyrith sounds off on the 3 candidates Cronin listed

Post #621 (4:37 PM) MrW lists pretty much everyone in the game besides Alan and Cronin

Post #625 (4:44 PM) Path asks if anyone believes both Cronin and AlanT are STARS?

[Alan T]

Welp, going to bed. I have my girls this weekend so probably won't be on a ton tommorrow and don't really have any defense.

Whatever its worth, I haven't lied about anything this game. haven't lied about my role, my thoughts, my feelings. I spent the entire first three days systematically eliminating who I thought was the police chief based on votes and their reaction to me.

We talked about usefulness of the police chief and how it would play at the start of the game, so I dropped the hints on how I thought it would be played and tried to give a big enough clue that I was watching for them and would try to be their mouthpiece for as long as I could without them dying.

After day 1 there was actually 12 people I thought could be the chief, but by the time day 2 was mostly over, it was down to either 3 - 4 or so as far as I could tell. By some point today there was only one person who I felt that could be the chief based on their reactions to me and interaction with me (knowing full well that i was good).

So I went with what I felt they were handing me in the way of who to push to vote for. I pushed strongly for it with the thought that on alot of these votes its a 50-50 chance if a stars person pushed the vote. If someone from umbrella or the zombies pushed the vote it obviously removed their 2 - 5 team mates and made it a much worse proposition. So I felt it necessary for the STARS to drive the vote and drive it hard.

Evidentally I was wrong about the police chief, and it cost me a huge err in judgement, and cost us a day. I am starting to think the police chief is a bogus role that Chubby just put into the roles as a possible role but its not actually in the game. If the Chief is actually in the game, then they either have voted for alot of good guys so far, or they publically came out and said they distrusted me (something I would not think they would do to fellow Stars members).

Like I've always said, there is nothing 100% in Werewolf, and I guess I remember that tonight. I'm not going to push any more agendas and will continue to place my vote for who I feel is the best stars vote the remainder of my time in this game (whether its one more day or 10). Im not going to self vote tommorrow, but I am not going to put alot more effort in defending myself or my actions. I told you all if I was wrong, you can lynch me and so be it.

This is not a defense post, this is simply an explanation of my actions as my STARS team mates at least deserve that much. I still have my suspicions of people such as Hoops, Fouts, Mr. Wednesday, etc. But at this point I'll just keep them to myself as it likely will push the rest of you further away from them rather than to look at them closer.

Once again sorry. I'll check in at some point after night actions are run to see how its going and then just to figure out where to vote (even if I'm the only one not voting for myself tommorrow)

[LoneStarGirl]

Hoops why are you pushing for Path so much all of the sudden?

With that being asked, im gonig to bed.

[hoopsguy]

MrW, it was 4-4 with Cronin vs Alan at the time.

If you take the intuitive leap here on Path, that he and Alan are on the same team, then they are zombies. They would not be Umbrella and bring forward another Umbrella candidate in Lathum.

Now, why wouldn't they push on Cronin - seems easier than getting votes for another person, right? Well, we still had 9 undecided at the time. Tyrith, who had just moved his vote, was pretty vocal about backing Cronin. What happens if he comes out and role reveals to keep us from wasting two straight days at the start of the game? Game over for Alan.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Post #621 (4:37 PM) MrW lists pretty much everyone in the game besides Alan and Cronin

It should have been everyone besides those two. I was evaluating what we could take out of the day 1 vote for everyone else.

As it turns out, I was right about st.cronin, possibly wrong about Alan.

[Alan T]

I know it will sound crazy, but I think Hoops played me. He knew Cronin wasn't a zombie and let me create my own noose. He now is using this opportunity to set up the steps for the path that you will need to take to assure them the victory by wasting 2-3 more days after I caused us to waste today.

Right now you probably pretty much have to lynch me tommorrow since I deserve it, but after I turn up good, if I had to choose, I think hoops is playing puppetmaster right now.

[hoopsguy]

LSG, I'm trying to play out a scenario in my mind here on Path. I would prefer to do it in public as we have quite a bit of time before night actions go in. He should have an opportunity to respond, the sniper should have an opportunity to evaluate this when making a decision.

Keeping my theory close to the vest did not help at all today. Perhaps public discussion of these theories will work a little better ...

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I wish I was good enough to make the move you are giving me credit for in this case. You absolutely know that you would hear about it in post-game, over AIM, etc.

Alas, I'm not that good. And I strongly suspect I'm going to have to listen to you give me the business for following you today about two seconds after you are dead in this game.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, I wish I was good enough to make the move you are giving me credit for in this case. You absolutely know that you would hear about it in post-game, over AIM, etc.

Alas, I'm not that good. And I strongly suspect I'm going to have to listen to you give me the business for following you today about two seconds after you are dead in this game.

Nope, I actually feel like a fool right now. I got over confident and felt like I could see everything unfolding in front of me like an NFL quarterback.

I really was suprised that no one else could see what I did after we all had talked about it at the beginning what the police chief would do.

I guess after the game I'll mainly be interested in hearing from the police chief on why they did what they did, but I guess the good side is that I dont have an important role, so its not like losing the bodyguard

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, I wish I was good enough to make the move you are giving me credit for in this case. You absolutely know that you would hear about it in post-game, over AIM, etc.

Alas, I'm not that good. And I strongly suspect I'm going to have to listen to you give me the business for following you today about two seconds after you are dead in this game.

And I guess it would be ironic if I am really wrong about you and you actually are on my side for once, that of all games its a moment like this. Ahh well

[hoopsguy]

So who were you following that you thought was the Chief, since they clearly were not the Chief? I think I know who you are going to say, but ... how much do you suspect this mystery guest right now?

Also, I'm not sure how you say that you were following anyone on Day 2 when you came out voting for Cronin within the first 30 minutes of the day. And never moved it.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

LSG, lets take a look at the voting records for the people who voted on Cronin today.

Alan - Bullet, Cronin, Cronin (3 votes for STARS)
Hoops - Bullet, Lathum, Cronin (2 votes for STARS, 1 vote for Umbrella)
Path - Cronin, Lathum, Cronin (2 votes for STARS, 1 vote for Umbrella)
BrianD - Cronin, Cronin, Cronin (3 votes for STARS)
Spleen - Bullet, AlanT, Cronin (2 votes for STARS)
Chief - Bullet, Lathum, Cronin (2 votes for STARS, 1 vote for Umbrella)*
MrW - Bullet, BrianD, Cronin (2 votes for STARS)

* - Chief initially voted for Cronin, then changed it to Lathum when realizing it would create a tie

I'm trying to put things into perspective to see what we have here.

Umbrella Player: Knows team of four or so baddies. everyone else is unknown.
STARS Player: Other than chief, only knows self and a sort of CoT.
Zombie Player: Knows partner or no more than two teammates.

-a vote for an Umbrella casts some doubt on that player being Umbrella. STARS and Zombies are more likely.
-a vote for a STARS player means nothing, except for regard to the chief. An Umbrella knows the target isn't Umbrella, a zombie knows the target isn't a zombie.
-a vote for a zombie player casts some doubt on that player being a zombie. STARS and Umbrella are more likely.

I think this is helpful. It makes for some targets other than Alan.
Not that I think Alan gets a free pass, but we do need to focus on numbers here, so he may be less of a priority.

[hoopsguy]

OK, going to bed for the night - enough stewing about WW for one evening.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Simple vote counts can be very hazardous to use, all the moreso because the bad guys like to throw votes onto their teammates when they can do so without attracting suspicion. The most reliable use of votes is in context.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So who were you following that you thought was the Chief, since they clearly were not the Chief? I think I know who you are going to say, but ... how much do you suspect this mystery guest right now?

Also, I'm not sure how you say that you were following anyone on Day 2 when you came out voting for Cronin within the first 30 minutes of the day. And never moved it.

Well since I was wrong, I guess it doesnt hurt to say.. but the last person I had to rule out being possible chief was Anxiety, so thought for sure he was the chief, and his re-affirmation of me today was the hint that Im on the right track and keep at it.

Before that I had it between Ntndeacon and Anxiety, and before that I had a few I think path, fouts (believe it or not when I pressed him I still hadnt ruled him out as of that time), and uhh I think Lonestargirl.

I cant remember any further back than that. But evidentally I was wrong, and knowing my luck all of those people are bad.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I know it will sound crazy, but I think Hoops played me. He knew Cronin wasn't a zombie and let me create my own noose. He now is using this opportunity to set up the steps for the path that you will need to take to assure them the victory by wasting 2-3 more days after I caused us to waste today.

Right now you probably pretty much have to lynch me tommorrow since I deserve it, but after I turn up good, if I had to choose, I think hoops is playing puppetmaster right now.

I thought you were the one moving him? I'm not sure I know which one of you I want to string up. I'm torn.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Simple vote counts can be very hazardous to use, all the moreso because the bad guys like to throw votes onto their teammates when they can do so without attracting suspicion. The most reliable use of votes is in context.

BTW, your post above was a nice piece of work. I think targets are good to have, and tomorrow we will have to piece together the ones worth moving on.

[Glengoyne]

Shit we have until tomorrow NIGHT to see what happens tonight. Grrr. Well more night discussion tomorrow. Somehow I like Day discussion more, it seems more fruitful. Maybe it is the pressure of the lynch. We will also have to be careful not to telegraph information.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

BTW, your post above was a nice piece of work. I think targets are good to have, and tomorrow we will have to piece together the ones worth moving on.

Thanks, keep in mind that I was mainly focusing on whether Alan ever advocated lynching Lathum (and if so, to what degree), and while I kept in a bunch of stuff that gives the flavor of other conversations that were ongoing, it's not exhaustive, I wasn't as careful about keeping other elements intact.

[Abe Sargent]

I'm barely conscious of what is going on and I haven;t even read the last four pages. I don;t know who got killed or what the result is, but I'm feeling awful. I can;t give this game the attention it deserves, so I have pmd chubby to find someone to replace me. Sorry.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief, are you going to have some time to dive into this game over the weekend? Would love to have you a little more involved in the conversation, time permitting.

End of a long day for me, as I picked up a night shift. Fortunately, it was a late enough shift I was able to go home and put a vote in, but not much more than that.

I am distraught about the st cronin lynch, because my basis for voting for him, other than gut instinct, was Alan's theory. Well, Alan's theory of cronin versus Fouts was based on neither being a member of STARS, and, whoops, cronin is a member of STARS. So either the theory is a goner (with some flaw we failed to eliminate) and/or Alan is a baddie all along who was trying to mislead us into killing a member of STARS.

The latter seems unlikely to me, as he would have to find a logical theory with some evidence to back this up, and he did. It seems to be too over the top of a play top make if you're bad. Still, it's safe to say we're somewhat back to square one from the debunking of Alan's theory.

I will have to take a closer look at voting records, and see if I can recognize some patterns that can help us identify a zombie. The records should be more consistent up to today--there are no possible conversions until tonight.

I should be more available this weekend, although of course the game will be moving in slo-mo.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Shouldn't that be a swimsuit poster of Tom Brady?

He is quite dreamy.

[st.cronin]

I will have some meta-game comments after game is over, but for now I will just say that there is a combination of really clever villains and really foolish villagers playing. Ah, well, it was fun while it lasted.

[path12]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

You mean people talk about FOF here? I am shocked! I am shocked and appalled!

I'm still waiting for my copy of the new FM to arrive. How many games can one man play?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

hoops, maybe. I think Alan's Umbrella, and right now we need to be worrying about zombies, not Umbrella.

After this result, I think he has to be.

[hoopsguy]

Path, I'm not Zombie or Umbrella. But I am awfully frustrated by how yesterday went. And it is impossible for me to believe right now that Alan was a blind/stubborn STARS player - I would give a less experienced player credit for being that, but if Alan really played it this way he should be slapped.

So, the question for me boils down to what faction Alan is with, which is where I'm now looking at you. If you want to try and come up with alternate scenarios today I'm all for it.

[hoopsguy]

I'll take it another step further - if Alan and I are both STARS, and we are killed in back-to-back days we are going to lose the game.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

When Path cast the first vote the total was 4-4 between Alan and Cronin, correct?

Are you talking about the Lathum vote day 2? Yes, as I said at the time I was looking for an alternative for my vote.