Online dating

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Danny

Oh I started dating someone, went on a few dates and it didn't work out. Then another I started talking to ended up meeting someone else. I wasn't too interested in anyone else (I was 23 at time and most of the people were older than I wanted), so let my subscription run out

Shortly after I started dating my wife (who I did not meet online)

Oh right on. That's the big problem that I'm running into (the women being older than me), I don't really want to date women my age or older since I hope to one day have kids and most women in their 40s don't want to have kids.

So in a way, the online dating led to you meeting your wife.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Oh same here. I think I'm pretty average at best. Yes, that can be very very irritating, especially when from reading her profile, they seem very compatible with likes/dislikes etc...and then to get no response.



I think you are close to hitting the nail on the head. I think a lot of the women on there think they are more attractive than they really are, so they hold out for that 1%. That's probably one of the reasons I always see the same women on there that are fairly attractive, but, not super hot.

Oh and the height thing is absolutely stupid. If I had a nickle for every woman's profile that said "Please be X tall because I like to wear my high heels. Total deal breaker", I'd be rich. So you mean that you being able to wear a particular kind of shoe, is more important than what kind of person the guy is? I don't understand this phobia of women not wanting to be taller than the guy. Does not compute.

I'm screwed because I'm short as hell, 5'4''.

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Oh right on. That's the big problem that I'm running into (the women being older than me), I don't really want to date women my age or older since I hope to one day have kids and most women in their 40s don't want to have kids.

So in a way, the online dating led to you meeting your wife.

Fair or not, age tends to work against women...men tend to be shallow in this way, but it's not a secret.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I'm screwed because I'm short as hell, 5'4''.


Fair or not, age tends to work against women...men tend to be shallow in this way, but it's not a secret.

You know, a shit ton of actors are short. So you should go into acting, they get hot chicks.

Yes women do get the short end of the stick when it comes to the age thing. I don't want some 18 year old, but, someone in their late 20s to early 30s is more what I'm looking for. Now if I had kids already, I would be looking for women my age.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

You know, a shit ton of actors are short. So you should go into acting, they get hot chicks.

Yes women do get the short end of the stick when it comes to the age thing. I don't want some 18 year old, but, someone in their late 20s to early 30s is more what I'm looking for. Now if I had kids already, I would be looking for women my age.

I do look taller if I stand on a pile of money.

Yeah, but I'm not going to feel bad for most of them.

OKCupid has a fantastic study (using statistical analysis to back up their findings) a few years ago on what they found among their users, and sort of backs up my claims about ladies holding out for the 1% crowd:

Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends

And this post is also interesting:

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/th...n-older-woman/

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I do look taller if I stand on a pile of money.

Yeah, but I'm not going to feel bad for most of them.

OKCupid has a fantastic study (using statistical analysis to back up their findings) a few years ago on what they found among their users, and sort of backs up my claims about ladies holding out for the 1% crowd:

Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends

And this post is also interesting:

The Case For An Older Woman « OkTrends

DING DING

As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable. But with the basic ratings so out-of-whack, the two curves together suggest some strange possibilities for the female thought process, the most salient of which is that the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her, but she then goes right out and messages them anyway.

[molson]

Is it possible that online dating makes people (particularly women) more picky and judgmental and full of themselves than they would be normally? Something about it as this organized meat market?

I've never really tried online dating. I've thought about jumping into it. The last few pages here are really depressing. I just can't help but think and wonder - is the charm and the efficiency of online dating basically done with, and maybe meeting people in the word and forging a connection that way should get another look by those who have more or less exclusively relied on dating sites to meet women?

I read DT say above that online is the only way he's going to meet someone. Why? You're not a grotesque bumbling idiot. As far as I can tell you can hold a conversation, make a living, don't have a criminal record, etc.

Online, maybe there's a lot of guys like that, who are datable. But in the real world, how many single guys like that do age-appropriate women really come into contact with in their regular lives? It has to be exciting when it happens. And maybe that excitement overcomes the pickyness/judgments/etc that the women might make online?

I think the key to meeting girls in person is to expand your social scene. I think that's easier to do these days with social networking and various internet meet-ups. I moved to Idaho knowing nobody. I made a few friends, but in the last year or two, I got more aggressive, I'd get invited to a party, try to have 3 or 4 really good conversations (with men or women, single or not, anyone who I connect with) - and then friend those people on facebook. Before you know it I get invited to THEIR parties. I hung around these scenes enough, and pretty quickly became the single guy in his 30s who people tried to setup. I made this one friend only because she adopted old dogs. I love old dogs. I told her so, offered to dog-sit anytime, etc. She had a boyfriend and I wouldn't have been interested anyway, but that led to parties at her house, and then parties at her neighbor's house, and then one night, it led to my girlfriend of the last six months. Who was just hanging out and was overheard by my friend asking if I was single. That info (which I suspect might have been made-up to encourage me to do something), was enough for even me to summons the confidence to hit on her and then talk to her on facebook and then ask her out.

Maybe there's something immature and college about all that, but, I think there's something to connecting with someone at a party and then asking them out. I think that comes across as a million times more interesting and real than some guy who sent her a message over a dating site (especially if she gets 10+ of them a day or whatever). I was there, and real, and expressing interest, and hanging around people she at least knows of (references, kind of). I wonder how often regular women in their 30s are really approached like that anymore.

Just my 2 cents. I think any of you guys would charm the pants of the right girl at the right social situation. Even if you think you have "no game". Awkward can be charming and exciting and real when it's in person, and when a girl can see you're trying and interested.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

Is it possible that online dating makes people (particularly women) more picky and judgmental and full of themselves than they would be normally? Something about it as this organized meat market?

Yes, absolutely.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't want to quote your whole post molson, but speaking for myself, I see my situation as this.

Yes I'm gentlemanly, can hold a great conversation, have a great job, etc.

My issue though is really that I live out in the suburbs where it's not as easy to meet people my age who are single (because work is out here and I prioritize the commute), and my social circle at this point is exclusively married people and perhaps their (married) friends. I also work for a small company (3 of us) so there's not really anybody I come into contact with through work.

I also am probably overly aware and sensitive to the fact that I have no game, and that I think manifests itself in like...say for example I saw an attractive girl at the bookstore...I don't think there's any way I'd have the cojones to go up to her there or anything. I'd be a mess if I tried that.

I just don't have a social circle that's conducive to meeting someone, and I'm very OCD/routine-oriented, so I don't tend to venture out of my "typical routine" at all, so I don't really...meet new people.

Honestly, could I go out and probably meet single people of both sexes and get invited to parties and things like that? Yeah I could, but honestly...I'm an introverted guy, I don't like having a lot of friends to manage, and I prefer say...hanging out around my place or with my existing friends rather than like...devoting a chunk of time to socializing with a lot of people I have very little interest in knowing better solely for the ulterior motive of meeting someone to date (who then may or may not be compatible with me). That just strikes me as a really inefficient use of my time.

I dunno though -I'm not unhappy being single or anything. At this point maybe I should just resign myself to that eventuality.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I do look taller if I stand on a pile of money.

Yeah, but I'm not going to feel bad for most of them.

OKCupid has a fantastic study (using statistical analysis to back up their findings) a few years ago on what they found among their users, and sort of backs up my claims about ladies holding out for the 1% crowd:

Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends

And this post is also interesting:

The Case For An Older Woman « OkTrends

Nothing wrong with standing on a pile of money As long as it isn't Bitcoin.

Very interesting article. Kind of jives with my theory that average looking women tend to think themselves more attractive than they are and hold out for the more attractive looking men.

Thought this was funny & a bit on topic (NSFW due to language):

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by molson

Is it possible that online dating makes people (particularly women) more picky and judgmental and full of themselves than they would be normally? Something about it as this organized meat market?

I think the key to meeting girls in person is to expand your social scene.

Both of these things are quite accurate, I think. The problem is, for me it's quite difficult to expand my social scene. I'm not comfortable at all in social situations, and always come across as sounding quite derpy (which is particularly irritating since in the mind and in writing, I can script it quite well). I suspect it's largely due to the fact that in most social situations, I'm not able to hear clearly what's going on. (And if it's a noisy setting like a bar, restaurant, or party, forget it. Which is why I ended up largely mentally checking out of a class that met each week at a taco place, though they made an effort to make sure I could hear; it just wasn't happening no matter what they tried.)

Hell, until I started playing Magic again recently, I can count on one hand the number of non-family members I've hung out with in a social setting in the past year, and only one of those lives here (and even then, it's someone I've seen less and less of, to the point where I don't anticipate seeing them again).

[JediKooter]

Izulde: I kind of know what you mean. Mine is that I'm just a bit on the shy/quiet side when I don't know anyone, which could be taken as not being friendly. I have no problems talking to people, but, almost 100% of the time, I will not be the one that initiates a conversation with someone.

Try going to a restaurant that has a bar, those places aren't usually very loud. I've met a lot of people outside of my work/social circle doing that. No dates yet, but, definitely expanded the group of people that I know.

[Galaxy]

I think we are seeing two big trends that are changing things. Technology: People just don't seem to want to put down their smart devices and engage in real conservations. I also think that due to the social access with others that is now 24/7, we might be much more competitive and, frankly, a little more envious of our family and friends. So we might see others have this or do that on Facebook or thorough texts, we might try to outdo that. Second trend is the changing dynamics of women in the workplace and in education. More women than men are going to college, and more women than men are getting advance degrees. This is a great thing, but it also delays women in terms of personal development, which might hurt them personally when they are ready to settle down, and maybe raises their standards because they feel that their professional success needs to be matched personally. Just a hunch, as I have no evidence to back this up.

[JediKooter]

That wouldn't surprise me one bit, Galaxy. Probably one of the components to the whole puzzle of dating in the 21st century.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Izulde: I kind of know what you mean. Mine is that I'm just a bit on the shy/quiet side when I don't know anyone, which could be taken as not being friendly. I have no problems talking to people, but, almost 100% of the time, I will not be the one that initiates a conversation with someone.

I'm the same way, except if I don't know anyone I'm more on the "extremely quiet" side, and I'm more of the "bit on the quiet side" when I do. I'm just not a talkative person. And the more people at the thing, the more quiet I get regardless of how well I know anyone. In a few weeks I have a birthday thing to go to with several people I know and more than several I don't. It will be the worst day of my life.

I also generally suck at making conversation, like how Izulde said about sounding "derpy" even though in my mind and if I write it out, it sounds fine. Sometimes my mind goes faster than I can talk and I trip over my words. And sometimes it's slow and it just won't put the words in the right order fast enough for me to get it out before the conversation moves forward. But that's why I prefer gatherings of 3-5 people. Enough that I can participate, not so few that I'll have to carry the conversation, not so many that I get drowned out and bored (and have panic attacks).

But that's one reason I dread "dates". I'm terrible at thinking of things to talk about, and I'm terrible at making conversation in general....and then the pressure to do so causes my brain lock up....

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I'm the same way, except if I don't know anyone I'm more on the "extremely quiet" side, and I'm more of the "bit on the quiet side" when I do. I'm just not a talkative person. And the more people at the thing, the more quiet I get regardless of how well I know anyone. In a few weeks I have a birthday thing to go to with several people I know and more than several I don't. It will be the worst day of my life.

I also generally suck at making conversation, like how Izulde said about sounding "derpy" even though in my mind and if I write it out, it sounds fine. Sometimes my mind goes faster than I can talk and I trip over my words. And sometimes it's slow and it just won't put the words in the right order fast enough for me to get it out before the conversation moves forward. But that's why I prefer gatherings of 3-5 people. Enough that I can participate, not so few that I'll have to carry the conversation, not so many that I get drowned out and bored (and have panic attacks).

But that's one reason I dread "dates". I'm terrible at thinking of things to talk about, and I'm terrible at making conversation in general....and then the pressure to do so causes my brain lock up....

It's the small talk with uninteresting people that can get to me. And when I read profile that comes across as "small talk," or just lacks substance, it sucks.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I'm the same way, except if I don't know anyone I'm more on the "extremely quiet" side, and I'm more of the "bit on the quiet side" when I do. I'm just not a talkative person. And the more people at the thing, the more quiet I get regardless of how well I know anyone. In a few weeks I have a birthday thing to go to with several people I know and more than several I don't. It will be the worst day of my life.

I also generally suck at making conversation, like how Izulde said about sounding "derpy" even though in my mind and if I write it out, it sounds fine. Sometimes my mind goes faster than I can talk and I trip over my words. And sometimes it's slow and it just won't put the words in the right order fast enough for me to get it out before the conversation moves forward. But that's why I prefer gatherings of 3-5 people. Enough that I can participate, not so few that I'll have to carry the conversation, not so many that I get drowned out and bored (and have panic attacks).

But that's one reason I dread "dates". I'm terrible at thinking of things to talk about, and I'm terrible at making conversation in general....and then the pressure to do so causes my brain lock up....

That can be pretty rough. I think part of it for me just stems from the way I was brought up: "Don't bother people".

I'd much rather talk to someone that sounds "derpy" than someone that won't shut up, but, I can definitely see how that would affect you when talking to a woman. Especially if you are even the slightest bit attracted to her. What helps me when in a situation like the birthday party that's coming up is, I hang back and watch people, it can be extremely amusing and take a bit of stress off as well. You would be surprised at how less 'derpy' you really are.

I'm totally with you on thinking of things to talk about on a date, because like you, I'm not a very talkative person to begin with. Well, unless I've had a few beers, but, otherwise, no.

You living on the Satellite of Love, should give you an advantage

[Galaxy]

We need JimmyWint here. He had game:

Is it Possible to Fudge a bank Statement? - Front Office Football Central

[Chief Rum]

The key to meeting women is opening yourself up to where and when to meet them, and that is it.

[CU Tiger]

For those saying they have trouble finding these to "small talk" about...

Ever been through a Dale Carnegie course? If not it may be $250 well spent. Literally its the art of conversation...

How to Win Friends and influence enemies.
Basically what I remember it as, who are you, what do you do for work , where do you live, what do you do for fun, if none of those lead to an interesting conversation then time to walk...

[Galaxy]

Do you guys exchange full names with each other? Would you reject them if they ask for it before the first date?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Do you guys exchange full names with each other? Would you reject them if they ask for it before the first date?

Typically don't exchange FULL names. I wouldn't reject a girl for that in this day and age though. I've never had one ask for it, but I mean I don 't have anything to hide and I wouldn't be any less than a gentleman, so I suppose why not.

[JediKooter]

I have given my last name but no one has ever asked for my full name though. Good luck though even if they did. A internet search on me using my name would be, like finding a needle in a haystack.

[Izulde]

I never give last name (not that I've ever been asked for it). I'm too easy to find.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I never give last name (not that I've ever been asked for it). I'm too easy to find.

You maybe easy to find, but, are you cheap?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I never give last name (not that I've ever been asked for it). I'm too easy to find.

You shouldn't leave incriminating evidence out in the open like that.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

My advice for the ladies, is more towards pet peeves of mine, so take it with a grain of salt.

1. Quit with the duck face pictures.
2. Don't have your main profile picture of you and other women without saying which one is you.
3. If you list the desired income range for the guy but don't list the income range for yourself. Makes you look like you only are after money.
4. Please say which way you like to be contacted. Is it a 'Wink', a 'Smile' or just send a message? I really appreciate it when a woman specifies which one they prefer. Apparently, to some women, sending a wink or a smile is a sign of a lack of interest for some reason and won't respond.

That's just me though. I'm sure others can definitely add to it.

To add on this:

Don't say you're fun-loving, easy-going, quirky, like to stay in but also go out, and is looking for a guy that is funny and love to laugh...I mean, who doesn't love to have fun? Did you date Mr. Burns who repressed the fun out of you and now you're completely rediscovering it? Easy-going? No thanks, I want someone who is hyped up on coke and is a total witch. Quirky, you say? I don't think eating raw cookie dough qualifies as being quirky. You like to stay in and go out? NO WAY! ME TOO! We must be soul mates! You want someone who is funny? Is there a shortage of funny guys or something? I know we all aren't "insert famous funny person you like," and funny is subjective, but I would also be worried about the fact that have you have to state this, when this should be just a natural thing in terms wanting someone who can make you crack a smile and laugh? Who doesn't want someone that is funny, besides Sheldon Cooper?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

To add on this:

Don't say you're fun-loving, easy-going, quirky, like to stay in but also go out, and is looking for a guy that is funny and love to laugh...I mean, who doesn't love to have fun? Did you date Mr. Burns who repressed the fun out of you and now you're completely rediscovering it? Easy-going? No thanks, I want someone who is hyped up on coke and is a total witch. Quirky, you say? I don't think eating raw cookie dough qualifies as being quirky. You like to stay in and go out? NO WAY! ME TOO! We must be soul mates! You want someone who is funny? Is there a shortage of funny guys or something? I know we all aren't "insert famous funny person you like," and funny is subjective, but I would also be worried about the fact that have you have to state this, when this should be just a natural thing in terms wanting someone who can make you crack a smile and laugh? Who doesn't want someone that is funny, besides Sheldon Cooper?

This. Well said Galaxy. Or "I love to wear jeans, but, I love to dress up" or "No drama please". Really? Fuck! I was really looking forward to a roller coaster of a ride at every turn of the relationship. If every relationship has too much drama for you, I think you need to find the common denominator in all of that.



So met someone from match yesterday after messaging her for a couple of days. Real cool chick and lives pretty close to where I live, so double bonus points. The couple of days before we meet, she tells me her name, cool. When we met up yesterday, she tells me that's not her real name. I'm ok with that, because I can see if she's had to deal some real creeps before. So she tells me her name and it is not a very common name...and I forgot what it is.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

So met someone from match yesterday after messaging her for a couple of days. Real cool chick and lives pretty close to where I live, so double bonus points. The couple of days before we meet, she tells me her name, cool. When we met up yesterday, she tells me that's not her real name. I'm ok with that, because I can see if she's had to deal some real creeps before. So she tells me her name and it is not a very common name...and I forgot what it is.

Go with "Mulva".

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I mean, who doesn't love to have fun?

[Logan]

Simultaneous, yet separate, Seinfeld references...it's a good day.

[JediKooter]

Two in a row...not too shabby for a Monday.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Two in a row...not too shabby for a Monday.

But do you remember their names?

[dzilla77]

Originally Posted by Logan

Go with "Mulva".

I'm pretty sure its Gipple.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Matthean

But do you remember their names?

I'm not having a good day with names.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

This. Well said Galaxy. Or "I love to wear jeans, but, I love to dress up"

Whatever is the fastest to get them out of those clothes.

[Dr. Sak]

My pet peeve was always "I hate drama" line. That was a red flag to me that she attracts/creates and secretly loves drama.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Whatever is the fastest to get them out of those clothes.

Exactly. That's why I always tell them to just wear sweats or shorts.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

My pet peeve was always "I hate drama" line. That was a red flag to me that she attracts/creates and secretly loves drama.

Yep. If you're choosing people/guy where drama somehow happens, there is usually a common denominator.

[JediKooter]

Ok, whew! I got her name finally!!

[MacroGuru]

I just started the online dating thing again....I am testing the field on the freebie sites right now...mainly OkCupid...

I think I might have hit something with my profile, being honest, a little wacky and pointing out a few of my faults.

So far, multiple responses have happened and I am engaging in a couple of discussions with decent looking women.

The sad thing is, there are a ton of hot single women in toronto that keep popping up on my search feed. What's wrong with the Canadian men?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

...What's wrong with the Canadian men?

They are just too darn nice.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

I just started the online dating thing again....I am testing the field on the freebie sites right now...mainly OkCupid...

I think I might have hit something with my profile, being honest, a little wacky and pointing out a few of my faults.

So far, multiple responses have happened and I am engaging in a couple of discussions with decent looking women.

The sad thing is, there are a ton of hot single women in toronto that keep popping up on my search feed. What's wrong with the Canadian men?

When randomly searching other regions just out of curiosity-such as Toronto, New York, Boston, or even Pittsburgh-the quality of women and expectations they seem to have seem very different. I know it demographics and population size, but it's an interesting observation.

[Izulde]

Las Vegas has the rather unique phenomenon of quite a few girls having to put specifically in their profiles for out of town people not to message them asking for hookups when the out of towners come to Sin City.

[DaddyTorgo]

Nobody ever writes me back. This online dating thing sucks.

I'd straight-up pay an old-fashioned matchmaker like...$10,000 to find me a "potential wife" at this point.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Las Vegas has the rather unique phenomenon of quite a few girls having to put specifically in their profiles for out of town people not to message them asking for hookups when the out of towners come to Sin City.

Personal experience?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Nobody ever writes me back. This online dating thing sucks.

I'd straight-up pay an old-fashioned matchmaker like...$10,000 to find me a "potential wife" at this point.

And by "matchmaker" you...do or don't mean human trafficker?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

And by "matchmaker" you...do or don't mean human trafficker?

Well I meant not a human trafficker...

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Nobody ever writes me back. This online dating thing sucks.

I'd straight-up pay an old-fashioned matchmaker like...$10,000 to find me a "potential wife" at this point.

Sometimes it feels like you are just throwing crap up against a wall and seeing what sticks.

I don't know what is worse though, not getting a response or getting a response and their one or two word, sleep inducing responses to your emails.

I'm finally talking to someone and actually had one date already and have a second date scheduled. This pretty much after about a year and half of a bunch of no responses and false starts. Stick with the free services, so at least you aren't spending money on something that gives you no return on your investment.

[Young Drachma]

You need to reverse engineer the process. You can't just sit in a local area, expect that someone is just going fall into your lap like the draft. Just like an scout, you're going to have to work at this game. It's a process and there are no such things as a "can't miss" prospect. You have to make people to do the workouts and you have to make sure your organization is in the shape necessary to attract the type of free agent/prospect you're trying to recruit.

The first thing is, knowing what kind of program you're running. If you're a D2 program, don't expect to recruit SEC talent. This might be hard for some folks, because we are prone to overrating or underrating ourselves. But you have to use objective measurements, rather than holistic ones like "I'm a nice guy," because the key is to differentiate.

The more people you have in your circle, the more legit you can be about rating your program. Identify important things. Collecting data is more important here than just focusing solely on likes/dislikes. You want to find someone with similar values and figuring out what your most important things are.

If you're in a small area, you need to pick the biggest large area near you and use that as your target. Be willing to drive an 1-2 hrs out of the way, to increase your pool if necessary. Give bonus points to people who are local who might fit your profile, too.

In general, match is better than OKCupid because it's bigger and has more people. OKCupid is great if you're looking for a specific subset of people who are probably more internet savvy than the average because it's still a niche site (and now it's owned by Match fwiw) even though we all default to it because it's popular with web dorks.

Eharmony is better for people who want a relationship, but even then there are flaws.

For the tricks of the profile:
[/list]

Here is a reading list, mostly of books geared towards women (not all, though) because they seem to write better books than PUA assholes. All have been vetted.

Getting the love you want by Harville Hendrix

Data: A Love Story by Amy Webb

Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough

Why Men Love Bitches

[panerd]

DT:

I don't want to be "one of those guys" in the dating threads that is happily married (who I met on EHarmony) with a kid but the worst advice you can get is to not pay for a dating site. I did free yahoo (when it existed) and free trials of other sites for about a year and half and finally dished out some money for EHarmony. Women aren't wired like us and unless you are looking for just hook-ups (which Match is great for my buddy says) than they are going to pay and want somebody to pay for a website. Think of it like the cost of a video game or something a month. It isn't that much and the EHarmony women are solid quality people. No doubt there were some duds, and some picky women there (EHarmony isn't solving the way women work and think ) but it was a huge step up from the free sites. Will duck out of the thread if this isn't what you want to hear.