Katrina hits Category 5.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by chinaski

http://www.alertnet.org/printable.ht.../N01279059.htm

Read every word of that article and it becomes very clear.

Like I said - it's up to the Louisiana representatives and senators in Congress to champion these projects. The rest of the Federal government has their own localities to worry about.

[Mustang]

Good god people.. is it really that important to find someone to blame?

Half our problem is that someone always has to be at fault since we looooooove to point the finger.

[Buccaneer]

kcchief, for what it's worth, I fully believe that Brown is and has been inept in this situation. My fear, though, is that Congress is going to allocate many more billions of our money to them so they will be better prepared next time.

Can anyone here think of even major event in US history that did not have its share of the blame game? Didn't think so.

We humans are better at being reactive than proactive. But most want to live in perfect hindsight. Go back earlier in this thread to see what those here (echoing those there) felt at the time - then base your opinions in that context. Whoever it was that went through the NHC site did it perfectly. Even though Nagin should have called for the evac earlier, no one knew of this magnitude, let alone get everything prepared for it.

Additionally, don't all of you recall what happened Monday afternoon? That was when New Orleans "escaped" the worst of the storm with some wind damage and minor flooding. Where was the outcry from officials and the judging public on having everything in place to save that city?

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Well that's straight out of left field.

That's my point. And yet, people made an issue of that after 9/11. This country has a real bad habit of fixing the blame instead of fixing the problem.

[capsicum]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Ok... so, who do we blame for not making the WTC strong enough to keep from collapsing?

I guess we should just assume an isolationist stance in global politics... let's not waste any money or manpower helping out anyone else, lest we need it for ourselves here.

exactly. Well said honey

Nobody should respond to anything outside our own "backyard" because no lives are as precious as American lives.

Thank God , we all dont think that way, cause I'd be emabarrassed to be one of "those" Americans

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

That's my point. And yet, people made an issue of that after 9/11. This country has a real bad habit of fixing the blame instead of fixing the problem.

You must have been reading my mind.. I posted the same thoughts as you did...

[Buccaneer]

I am quite surprised that Jesse Jackson was not mentioned today. Did you happened? His bus came into town and the stranded started surrounding it. What did that dipshit do? He kept on going so he could make a grandstanding announcement. How about this worthless scum of a human being give up his bus so people get out? Oh that's right, even though the mayor called for every bus to come pick up people, Jackson and his entourage are exempt.

[jeff061]

You kind of need to find out where the problem is before you can fix it, naturally part of that is finding weak points in the system, aka who's to blame.

Now right now it doesn't mean anything since the tragedy is still on going, but on a discussion board it's likely going to be a focus. The whole left vrs. right arguments going on are pretty pointless though.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by capsicum

IMO...theres one of those crying pocketbooks "pointing at Mrbigglesworth", that I was talking about...just like congress has a fit whenever bush requests more money to better arm, better equip the soldiers in Iraq ...congress starts squeeking like lil girls, along with most of the liberal democrats.

In reality, when have the Democrats been against funding to soldiers in Iraq?

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by jeff061

You kind of need to find out where the problem is before you can fix it, naturally part of that is finding weak points in the system, aka who's to blame.

Ok, well, the weak point in this system is that New Orleans is below sea level.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Good god people.. is it really that important to find someone to blame?

Half our problem is that someone always has to be at fault since we looooooove to point the finger.

Now is the perfect time to lay blame. We deferred laying blame at 9/11, and it got more people killed in Iraq. We deferred laying blame for Iraq, and it got more people killed in New Orleans. The administration is inept, and I am disgusted. Every time someone sees another shot of what is happening in New Orleans, they need to realize right now that the Bush administration has made it worse than it ever had to be. Maybe then even the true believers will start to realize how terrible the administration is.

[jeff061]

Right. And the weak point with the WTC is they were tall.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I guess we should just assume an isolationist stance in global politics... let's not waste any money or manpower helping out anyone else, lest we need it for ourselves here.

I've never seen a better strawman. Bravo.

I guess we should send every dollar we have to foriegn countries and invade each and every one of them, install our own puppet governments, take in the feeble as protectorates, and rule them like the new Roman Empire.

[Buccaneer]

I think I'm approving my decision to ignore MrBiggle for I can only imagine what nonsense he is saying. No one qoute him please.

If he cannot see this for the same reason, that's fair and probably deserving.

[capsicum]

As for mr-small-worths -sorry couldnt resist,afterall so many people amuse themselves by poking fun at my SN -comments... Id just like to ask him if he even bothered to watch the republican national convention, WHERE A DEMOCRAT stood up and jumped party lines after being disgusted by his fellow DEMOCRATIC Congressman's constant votes against defense spending in Iraq???
All I can say is thank GOD we flushed the "Johns!"

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Yup, good think we flushed the 'John's.' I'm sure Kerry would've been windsurfing on vacation on Martha's Vineyard or not even gone to New Orleans for like four days -

- oh wait. Nevermind.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Wow...Glad to see this informative thread turn to political crap.

No kidding....not surprising that it involves all of the usual suspects, either.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Yup, Kerry & Edwards and all Democrats and liberals are such evil men and women they wouldn't have even come to New Orleans unless it helped their poll numbers. Sweet baby Jesus, you make bubba look logical.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

DOLA - WTF? Carpiscum just had a post one here. Ah OK, was editing it. No change in content though.

[capsicum]

Originally Posted by Jesse_Ewiak

Yup, good think we flushed the 'John's.' I'm sure Kerry would've been windsurfing on vacation on Martha's Vineyard or not even gone to New Orleans for like four days -

Probably would have never gone at all...unless of course it was good for a re-election campaign stunt , something that we can never accuse Bush's visit on . Then again I was always quite cynical about his sincerity .

[JW]

Been rather busy. Lots of refugees in this area, helping with some relatives and in-laws. I wanted to make a few comments having not read the thread, only scanned part of it.

1. This was entirely predictable. People locally were predicting this disaster and the breakdown of law and order and looting well before Katrina hit. People willing to tell the truth were saying it would be really bad. This should have surprised no one.

2. The response was terrible. Gov. Blanco should be impeached. She has been inept. Her shining moment before today's news conference with Bush was standing side by side with Jesse Jackson and a representative of Chavez of Venezuela a couple of days ago. She did not act strongly enough. She sounded like a teacher, not a leader.

3. However, this was far beyond the scope of the state to handle. And the federal response was entirely inadequate. The buck stops with the President. The biggest natural disaster in US history needed the biggest response in US history. This disaster was 'wargamed' just a few years ago, and people are saying that the feds have not responded as planned.

4. The lawlessness could have been largely prevented. I'm not talking about people stealing food and water. I'm talking about Mogadishu style roving bands of armed thugs -- this was predicted, too. New Orleans was rife with gangs and crime. There is looting, murder, robbery, rape going on. It could have been much better contained.

5. No one had or apparently has the balls to make the strong response necessary to deal with the animals preying on the hurricane survivors. The only strong figure in this whole mess has been Mayor Nagin of New Orleans. Blanco should have requested and the President authorized a federal military response to restore order and provide aid in New Orleans. Frankly I'm thinking people made the political decision that it was better to allow the animals to roam than to take the strong military action that is needed to stop them.

6. Jesse Jackson and the black caucus and others blaming racism for the slow response while excusing the animals preying on the poor black victims of the hurricane, well, they're nothing but racists themselves. The response has been just as bad on the Mississippi Gulf coast and in the rural parishes affected by Katrina.

I'll stop. I won't be back for a while. This is an immense disaster that will effect the entire nation for some time. God bless us all.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Watching Anedrson Cooper on CNN and thius guy has no experience in anything. He's basically cussing out anyone involved with the fed govt. and fema. He doesnt think that it takes time and planning during mobilization and that roads have to be cleared and such before help can get to a disaster area. Specially mobilizing NG component troops. They just cant parachute into the area an hour after the disaster and build a new city within 4 hours. Units have to be notified (qualified ones : ie: INF. MP, Medical Corps, Engineers, et ala.), Orders cut, Commanders notified, TPU Soldiers called and located, Assembled,then go to a mob site and wait for travel.

[capsicum]

calmn down jesse, I was merely editing it..

[jeff061]

JW, that's pretty much exactly the picture I've gathered, for all the parties involved.

Though a couple in this thread will miss the point and assume you are Bush bashing.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by JW

Been rather busy. Lots of refugees in this area, helping with some relatives and in-laws. I wanted to make a few comments having not read the thread, only scanned part of it.

1. This was entirely predictable. People locally were predicting this disaster and the breakdown of law and order and looting well before Katrina hit. People willing to tell the truth were saying it would be really bad. This should have surprised no one.

2. The response was terrible. Gov. Blanco should be impeached. She has been inept. Her shining moment before today's news conference with Bush was standing side by side with Jesse Jackson and a representative of Chavez of Venezuela a couple of days ago. She did not act strongly enough. She sounded like a teacher, not a leader.

3. However, this was far beyond the scope of the state to handle. And the federal response was entirely inadequate. The buck stops with the President. The biggest natural disaster in US history needed the biggest response in US history. This disaster was 'wargamed' just a few years ago, and people are saying that the feds have not responded as planned.

4. The lawlessness could have been largely prevented. I'm not talking about people stealing food and water. I'm talking about Mogadishu style roving bands of armed thugs -- this was predicted, too. New Orleans was rife with gangs and crime. There is looting, murder, robbery, rape going on. It could have been much better contained.

5. No one had or apparently has the balls to make the strong response necessary to deal with the animals preying on the hurricane survivors. The only strong figure in this whole mess has been Mayor Nagin of New Orleans. Blanco should have requested and the President authorized a federal military response to restore order and provide aid in New Orleans. Frankly I'm thinking people made the political decision that it was better to allow the animals to roam than to take the strong military action that is needed to stop them.

6. Jesse Jackson and the black caucus and others blaming racism for the slow response while excusing the animals preying on the poor black victims of the hurricane, well, they're nothing but racists themselves. The response has been just as bad on the Mississippi Gulf coast and in the rural parishes affected by Katrina.

I'll stop. I won't be back for a while. This is an immense disaster that will effect the entire nation for some time. God bless us all.

I agree with what you said. Take care my old friend.

[Chubby]

when they finally let people come back and start rebuilding where is everyone going to buy food, gas, clothes etc? getting the area ready for humans is hard enough but being able to pass health inspections (for businesses) is going to be much tougher I would guess

[capsicum]

Jeff, if you are by chance refering to myself or my husband , we are not missing the point , there was many things in JW's post I completely agreed with, altho I do disagree with the statemnet that the buck stops with Bush.... There are many layers of red tape, and protocol "even for a President, something that Bush can hardly be blamed for,as they have been in place much longer then Bush has been President" involved in dealing with a crisis of this size and nature, cutting thru them takes time ,patience, and understanding.

Im sure we would all love it if the federal government merely had to click its figurative heels together and say." Correct & repair all damage caused by Hurricane Kitrina,and it magically happened....to bad its merely wishful thinking.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

It's one thing when some nutjob like Phelps says this, it's another when the American Family Association, one of the LARGEST and most powerful groups of the right, gives those nutjobs air time.

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/22005b.asp

“New Orleans now is abortion free. New Orleans now is Mardi Gras free. New Orleans now is free of Southern Decadence and the sodomites, the witchcraft workers, false religion -- it's free of all of those things now," Shanks says. "God simply, I believe, in His mercy purged all of that stuff out of there -- and now we're going to start over again."

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by sabotai

No kidding....not surprising that it involves all of the usual suspects, either.

Should just spin off the thread into a Political thread-New Orleans. Makes me not want to read this thread anymore.

On the other note, I'm really liking Tommy West of the Memphis Tigers football program. Rivals, yet he is offering Southern Miss complete use of the teams training and practice facilities.

[capsicum]

Read the article..twice...still dont see any nutjobs.
These types of theories have been pondered many times.
Another thought to ponder...
Could San Fransico be next???

[Pumpy Tudors]

Despite everything I said in post #47 of this thread, despite everything I've felt since my hometown was hit by the storm, despite everything I've wanted to say since I remotely watched my hometown get destroyed by flooding and criminals, despite me needing an absolute verbal release after having my family displaced and one of my best friends feared dead (I found out 12 hours ago that he's alive and safe)...

Thanks, guys, for showing me why I got the fuck out of this thread several days ago.

[Wolfpack]

Well, that'll throw gasoline on the fire. Bravo. We shouldn't be merging Katrina threads. If anything, we need to split up this thread so the political wrangling can be done either here or elsewhere and the actual constructive discussion continue without finger-pointing, flame-baiting, and all that other crap.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Originally Posted by capsicum

Read the article..twice...still dont see any nutjobs.
These types of theories have been pondered many times.
Another thought to ponder...
Could San Fransico be next???

Um....yeah....fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Despite everything I said in post #47 of this thread, despite everything I've felt since my hometown was hit by the storm, despite everything I've wanted to say since I remotely watched my hometown get destroyed by flooding and criminals, despite me needing an absolute verbal release after having my family displaced and one of my best friends feared dead (I found out 12 hours ago that he's alive and safe)...

Thanks, guys, for showing me why I got the fuck out of this thread several days ago.

Damn.......glad to hear things worked out.....and I would like to apologize that I have helped to contribute to the demise of this thread.

[chinaski]

thats well beyond lifetime ban material.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by capsicum

Read the article..twice...still dont see any nutjobs.
These types of theories have been pondered many times.
Another thought to ponder...
Could San Fransico be next???

Nevermind. I was mistaken.

[jeff061]

I'm just going to assume I mis-read cap's post, all of it. That's all.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Jesse_Ewiak

It's one thing when some nutjob like Phelps says this, it's another when the American Family Association, one of the LARGEST and most powerful groups of the right, gives those nutjobs air time.

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/22005b.asp

“New Orleans now is abortion free. New Orleans now is Mardi Gras free. New Orleans now is free of Southern Decadence and the sodomites, the witchcraft workers, false religion -- it's free of all of those things now," Shanks says. "God simply, I believe, in His mercy purged all of that stuff out of there -- and now we're going to start over again."

Oooh, yeah.

god also apparently missed all the rapists and murderers running through town right now. So, either your god, who obviously isn't my God, has bad aim, or your god approves of rape and murder. Enjoy that theological position, Mr. Shanks.

[stevew]

Seriously, i think liking the Vikings should be a bannable offense. And any new women on the board should be expelled. Got Terpkristen, Farrah, Oliegirl....thats about all the chicks we need.

[Airhog]

The man is obviously hard core religious and in his eyes he is right. I don't agree with him one bit, but he does have the same right to express his opinion about it the same as everyone else does.

[capsicum]

I was merely trying to point out that people familiar with the good book "the Bible" might draw inferences from the biblical story of Sodom & Gamorra.

[bronconick]

People familiar with the good book would also know that Noah got a promise from the Old Testament God not to use floods to "cleanse evil" anymore.

[Pumpy Tudors]

So, um, yeah, my friend - you know, the one I thought was dead all week - he called me this morning. He was in New Orleans East, one of the areas that was actually under several feet of water just from the hurricane (before the levee broke). He had four feet of water in his apartment on Monday. After living in it for three days, he finally ran out of food and swam in the floodwaters a mile to the nearest grocery store. He's not proud of it, but the store had already been broken into by other people, so he went in and took some canned food and some beverages so he could survive. He found a mattress floating around the area and put his groceries on top of it, and he pulled it back to his apartment, because, believe it or not, his flooded apartment was the only place that he felt safe. He stayed there until his longtime friend went looking for him and pulled him out. He's now in a shelter in Lake Charles, and somehow, his friend and his friend's family had no room to take him to their next stop. He's surrounded by strangers, he has been unable to reach his parents to let them know that he's alive. I felt terrible because I urged him to leave on Sunday morning, and the knucklehead refused to go. His priorities weren't in the right place, and he understands that now, but he had to go through hell to realize it. Even though I did everything I could from 1000 miles away, I would have felt pretty bad if he would have perished in this storm.

I'm sorry that I can't provide the board with any compelling political commentary, but I'm trying to get back into this thread just to give a unique perspective. It may sound strange, but I feel like I'm in a very strange situation, considering that I was fortunate enough (and I feel very guilty using that term) to have left the city right before all of this happened. Yeah yeah, boo-hoo, poor Pumpy. Still, if this is no longer the right thread to post anything like this, let me know and I'll just leave it alone again.

[Galaxy]

You guys just don't stop....Amazing.

[capsicum]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Oooh, yeah.

god also apparently missed all the rapists and murderers running through town right now. So, either your god, who obviously isn't my God, has bad aim, or your god approves of rape and murder. Enjoy that theological position, Mr. Shanks.

Your assumptions about my god are completely ridiculous.

A question for all those rushing to judge my post..

Whats the point of personally attacking me for pointing out that large numbers of people draw a historical likeness from a biblical happening??

** Edit - to clarify - I'm not suggesting that I believe any of this is judgement from God - I'm saying this has already been said many times before whenever something like this happens. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

So, um, yeah, my friend - you know, the one I thought was dead all week - he called me this morning. He was in New Orleans East, one of the areas that was actually under several feet of water just from the hurricane (before the levee broke). He had four feet of water in his apartment on Monday. After living in it for three days, he finally ran out of food and swam in the floodwaters a mile to the nearest grocery store. He's not proud of it, but the store had already been broken into by other people, so he went in and took some canned food and some beverages so he could survive. He found a mattress floating around the area and put his groceries on top of it, and he pulled it back to his apartment, because, believe it or not, his flooded apartment was the only place that he felt safe. He stayed there until his longtime friend went looking for him and pulled him out. He's now in a shelter in Lake Charles, and somehow, his friend and his friend's family had no room to take him to their next stop. He's surrounded by strangers, he has been unable to reach his parents to let them know that he's alive. I felt terrible because I urged him to leave on Sunday morning, and the knucklehead refused to go. His priorities weren't in the right place, and he understands that now, but he had to go through hell to realize it. Even though I did everything I could from 1000 miles away, I would have felt pretty bad if he would have perished in this storm.

I'm sorry that I can't provide the board with any compelling political commentary, but I'm trying to get back into this thread just to give a unique perspective. It may sound strange, but I feel like I'm in a very strange situation, considering that I was fortunate enough (and I feel very guilty using that term) to have left the city right before all of this happened. Yeah yeah, boo-hoo, poor Pumpy. Still, if this is no longer the right thread to post anything like this, let me know and I'll just leave it alone again.

Good to hear about your friend making it through.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

So, um, yeah, my friend - you know, the one I thought was dead all week - he called me this morning. He was in New Orleans East, one of the areas that was actually under several feet of water just from the hurricane (before the levee broke). He had four feet of water in his apartment on Monday. After living in it for three days, he finally ran out of food and swam in the floodwaters a mile to the nearest grocery store. He's not proud of it, but the store had already been broken into by other people, so he went in and took some canned food and some beverages so he could survive. He found a mattress floating around the area and put his groceries on top of it, and he pulled it back to his apartment, because, believe it or not, his flooded apartment was the only place that he felt safe. He stayed there until his longtime friend went looking for him and pulled him out. He's now in a shelter in Lake Charles, and somehow, his friend and his friend's family had no room to take him to their next stop. He's surrounded by strangers, he has been unable to reach his parents to let them know that he's alive. I felt terrible because I urged him to leave on Sunday morning, and the knucklehead refused to go. His priorities weren't in the right place, and he understands that now, but he had to go through hell to realize it. Even though I did everything I could from 1000 miles away, I would have felt pretty bad if he would have perished in this storm.

I'm sorry that I can't provide the board with any compelling political commentary, but I'm trying to get back into this thread just to give a unique perspective. It may sound strange, but I feel like I'm in a very strange situation, considering that I was fortunate enough (and I feel very guilty using that term) to have left the city right before all of this happened. Yeah yeah, boo-hoo, poor Pumpy. Still, if this is no longer the right thread to post anything like this, let me know and I'll just leave it alone again.

Pumpy, I'm copying this to the "status update" thread. Just FYI.

/tk

[Swaggs]

Pumpy, I'm glad your friend survived and hope he can keep his sanity and health for another few days until he can reach safety. He will be in my thoughts.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

So, um, yeah, my friend - you know, the one I thought was dead all week - he called me this morning. He was in New Orleans East, one of the areas that was actually under several feet of water just from the hurricane (before the levee broke). He had four feet of water in his apartment on Monday. After living in it for three days, he finally ran out of food and swam in the floodwaters a mile to the nearest grocery store. He's not proud of it, but the store had already been broken into by other people, so he went in and took some canned food and some beverages so he could survive. He found a mattress floating around the area and put his groceries on top of it, and he pulled it back to his apartment, because, believe it or not, his flooded apartment was the only place that he felt safe. He stayed there until his longtime friend went looking for him and pulled him out. He's now in a shelter in Lake Charles, and somehow, his friend and his friend's family had no room to take him to their next stop. He's surrounded by strangers, he has been unable to reach his parents to let them know that he's alive. I felt terrible because I urged him to leave on Sunday morning, and the knucklehead refused to go. His priorities weren't in the right place, and he understands that now, but he had to go through hell to realize it. Even though I did everything I could from 1000 miles away, I would have felt pretty bad if he would have perished in this storm.

I'm sorry that I can't provide the board with any compelling political commentary, but I'm trying to get back into this thread just to give a unique perspective. It may sound strange, but I feel like I'm in a very strange situation, considering that I was fortunate enough (and I feel very guilty using that term) to have left the city right before all of this happened. Yeah yeah, boo-hoo, poor Pumpy. Still, if this is no longer the right thread to post anything like this, let me know and I'll just leave it alone again.

Pumpy I'm glad your friend made it through, and is safe. I hope he gets in touch with his parent soon.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by capsicum

Read the article..twice...still dont see any nutjobs.
These types of theories have been pondered many times.
Another thought to ponder...
Could San Fransico be next???

Ok, I've read your posts and tried to ignore the idiocy I see in them, but this...this is just pathetic, even for a right wing freak.

This isn't a jest, not the way you wrote it, so don't try to play that angle.

I have read your husbands commentary numerous times and have agreed and disagreed with him. he at least has some factual basis for his conservative beliefs.

But this tripe you just typed is some of the most ignorant disgracefull yak-urine I have had the bad luck to stumble upon and read.

I'm quite happily ignoring you.

Good Day.