American Idol 2007

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Lathum

gina got screwed. This week was really out of her comfort zone/ style and she paid for it.

It really pisses me off the Melinda/Lakisha can basicly find loopholes to perform the same styles every week but Gina gets forced to sing something out of her range.

I realize there was no way she was winning but she was unique to the competition and to me it is dissapointing to see her go.

Melinda/Lakisha don't just find loopholes -- they are blatantly allowed to go against the theme of the week.

[RedKingGold]

I think Melinda will do fine in salsa week, but I really get the feeling that LaKisha might be exposed.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Dola-

Though she did look bad Tuesday.

Yeah, I've been a fan of her look/potential look, but Tuesday was not a good day for her in either department.

[Ksyrup]

I refuse to let this go...

Last night, Ryan never mentioned, in combination with the groups of 3, that any of them were in the top, middle, or bottom 3 votes. He only referenced the voting at the end, when he told Gina she was going home.

I still say they screw with the order, if not the results.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I refuse to let this go...

Last night, Ryan never mentioned, in combination with the groups of 3, that any of them were in the top, middle, or bottom 3 votes. He only referenced the voting at the end, when he told Gina she was going home.

I still say they screw with the order, if not the results.

Hmm, I thought I listened closely and was sure he at least said the final trio was the "bottom three." I could be wrong though.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Melinda/Lakisha don't just find loopholes -- they are blatantly allowed to go against the theme of the week.

Yeah, I'm sure for Salsa week they will be aloud to sing Motown again for at least the 5th time.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Hmm, I thought I listened closely and was sure he at least said the final trio was the "bottom three." I could be wrong though.

The bottom three what, though? That's the point - he never clarified that by specifically referencing the votes. They could be the bottom vote getter and, say, bottom two producer picks.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I refuse to let this go...

Let it go.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The bottom three what, though? That's the point - he never clarified that by specifically referencing the votes. They could be the bottom vote getter and, say, bottom two producer picks.

But that doesn't make any sense. It's not like Sanjaya and Melinda were up there (Sanjaya -- because it would be good for suspense, Melinda -- because any shock of having her considered "bottom 3" would spur dismayed conversation between the judges and more votes for her next week). If you were betting on Gina, Haley and Phil to all be in the bottom 3, you would probably only get slightly better than even-money. They were clearly the bottom 3 (Sanjaya excluded).

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I refuse to let this go...

Last night, Ryan never mentioned, in combination with the groups of 3, that any of them were in the top, middle, or bottom 3 votes. He only referenced the voting at the end, when he told Gina she was going home.

I still say they screw with the order, if not the results.

yes he did, although you had to work for it a bit.
when they were in the 3 groups, he said (paraphrasing) that they were split into the top, middle and bottom three.

he sat the first trio (Jordan, Lakisha and Melinda) down without telling them if they were top or middle. then he moved to Chris, Blake and Sanjaya and told them (again paraphrasing) that they weren't the top 3, but they weren't the bottom 3.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The bottom three what, though? That's the point - he never clarified that by specifically referencing the votes. They could be the bottom vote getter and, say, bottom two producer picks.

sorry, thought you were asking a serious question. Didn't realize you were going all grassy knoll moon landing on it. carry on.

[Ksyrup]

Everyone has to have their conspiracy theory to believe in. This one's mine.

[kurtism]

Remember, it is good to have Haley in the "bottom" 3 (unless you are Easy Mac). I like to think that every time she is almost voted out, she decides to show a little more skin. I figure if she survives another two weeks, she'll be down to a bikini. This is a good thing (unless you are Easy Mac).

[Ksyrup]

It's AI: Strip Tease Edition

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's AI: Strip Tease Edition

what better phil nude or lakisha nude

thanks

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I think Melinda will do fine in salsa week, but I really get the feeling that LaKisha might be exposed.

No, I do not want to see LaKisha exposed. Some things are better left a secret.

[Logan]

Salsa week? Thank god Haley's still around. Get those Tivos ready.

[Schmidty]

I get the dislike for Lakisha, but not Melinda.

[Schmidty]

Oh, and I'm with Easy Mac. Haley's face is nothing at all to write home about, and I'm not a leg guy so she's not that great to me. She's not meaty enough, and she's not even remotely as top-heavy as people are making it sound.

I give her a 6.5/10 as far as hotness.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I get the dislike for Lakisha, but not Melinda.

We're asking to be entertained. Continually listening to the same style of song, continually sung near perfection, just isn't entertaining.

edit: add another "continually without any stage presence" to the above.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Logan

We're asking to be entertained. Continually listening to the same style of song, continually sung near perfection, just isn't entertaining.

edit: add another "continually without any stage presence" to the above.

Wow. As a singer myself, I see GREAT stage presence, and am always entertained by Melinda. What she does is awesome, and I don't even generally like the style she sings.

I think america is dead-on with their support of her. I think a lot of people don't like her simply because she's popular, and it's "cool" to be different from the crowd, even if that stance is subconcious.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Wow. As a singer myself, I see GREAT stage presence, and am always entertained by Melinda. What she does is awesome, and I don't even generally like the style she sings.

I think america is dead-on with their support of her. I think a lot of people don't like her simply because she's popular, and it's "cool" to be different from the crowd, even if that stance is subconcious.

Would you pay $45 for a decent seat to see her sing? If yes, that's fine as it's your opinion, but I don't think you would have much trouble getting that seat to her show.

As for your second point...couldn't disagree more, at least for me. I have no problem liking the favorites. Last season was my first, but I believe my favorite 3 were the top 3 (Chris, Katherine, Taylor, in that order). Chris for the style of music he was singing and how he seemed like a genuinely good guy, Katherine because she had a really nice voice and was a pleasure to look at when she wasn't giving bitchy looks when she didn't think the camera was on her, and Taylor because of however you want to describe his style.

Melinda bores me, plain and simple.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Logan

Melinda bores me, plain and simple.

That's cool, and I can respect that pop people like Chris "Nickleback" Daughtry, Katherine "Aguilera" McPhee bored me last season. I guess it's just different points of view. That's what makes the show interesting.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Wow. As a singer myself, I see GREAT stage presence, and am always entertained by Melinda. What she does is awesome, and I don't even generally like the style she sings.

I think america is dead-on with their support of her. I think a lot of people don't like her simply because she's popular, and it's "cool" to be different from the crowd, even if that stance is subconcious.

My biggest problem is that showtunes are not British Invasion songs. I find it hard to believe Gwen Stefani was inspired by Donna Summers. She is not doing what this competition was made for, which is show your talents by adapting to other styles and/or adapting songs from other genres to your style. What Melinda is performing a showtune every week regardless of genre.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

My biggest problem is that showtunes are not British Invasion songs. I find it hard to believe Gwen Stefani was inspired by Donna Summers. She is not doing what this competition was made for, which is show your talents by adapting to other styles and/or adapting songs from other genres to your style. What Melinda is performing a showtune every week regardless of genre.

I'm pretty sure this is where the Melinda detractors come from, and that's what I was working towards when I told Schmidty that it's her same style that I can't stand. As you say, the point of all these weeks is for some variety...but for some reason, they're allowing it.

[Arles]

Melinda is basically an Anita Baker/Gladys Knight type. If this was 1975, she would be a big hit. However, there is nothing "pop" about her. I think the comparisons to Ruben are dead on in that she does a nice job with her Donna Summer/showtunes/Aretha Franklin songs, but those won't sell nowadays. Just for giggles, here are the years and background for every song she's sang so far:

1939 - musical Babes In Arms
1951 - musical An American In Paris
1960 - broadway show of Oliver
1963 - Peggy Lee
1968 - Aretha Franklin
1978 - Diana Ross
1979 - Donna Summer

Call me crazy, but I don't see that as a lineup that makes record execs salivate. For all that Simon continually criticizes people on being "old fashioned" - Melinda is the epitome of an old fashioned broadway/R&B singer. I will be shocked if she ends up singing a song that was written after 1990 at any point in this competition. And, I can see how this would bore a big portion of the AI demographic (myself included).

[Ksyrup]

She is a great singer, a fairly compelling performer, and I have not a shred of interest in watching her at all, other than as a contestant on this show. And even then, it's a struggle. I can't stand the kind of music she sings, and she's never sung anything other than that on the show. Plain and simple. Maybe if she had sung an actual British Invasion song, and sung it well, I wouldn't be able to make that statement.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Everyone has to have their conspiracy theory to believe in. This one's mine.

The thing is, though, that we will eventually know the truths or secrets long after everyone stops caring about this series. Everything, I mean everything, on TV is thoroughly planned and edited accordingly to maximize viewer interests and therefore, ad revenues. Idol is no exception, esp. considering the number of people involved the production and presentation of the show.

Even in the very early days of TV, like the Groucho Marx show. They filmed each contestant for one hour and then edited it down to about 30 minutes (with sponsorships plugs) before it is aired. There is too much money involved for TV to be left to chance.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

No, I do not want to see LaKisha exposed. Some things are better left a secret.

It's not my fault I like my women like I like my coffee.

Bold, black, and carried over the border by a Mexican in a burlap sack.

[adubroff]

Originally Posted by kurtism

Remember, it is good to have Haley in the "bottom" 3 (unless you are Easy Mac). I like to think that every time she is almost voted out, she decides to show a little more skin. I figure if she survives another two weeks, she'll be down to a bikini. This is a good thing (unless you are Easy Mac).

Most bikinis show less flesh than Haley on Tuesday.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Logan

Would you pay $45 for a decent seat to see her sing? If yes, that's fine as it's your opinion, but I don't think you would have much trouble getting that seat to her show.

I'd pay maybe 2 bucks, but a hundred to see Haley from down below in row 1.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Arles

Melinda is basically an Anita Baker/Gladys Knight type. If this was 1975, she would be a big hit. However, there is nothing "pop" about her. I think the comparisons to Ruben are dead on in that she does a nice job with her Donna Summer/showtunes/Aretha Franklin songs, but those won't sell nowadays. Just for giggles, here are the years and background for every song she's sang so far:

1939 - musical Babes In Arms
1951 - musical An American In Paris
1960 - broadway show of Oliver
1963 - Peggy Lee
1968 - Aretha Franklin
1978 - Diana Ross
1979 - Donna Summer

Call me crazy, but I don't see that as a lineup that makes record execs salivate. For all that Simon continually criticizes people on being "old fashioned" - Melinda is the epitome of an old fashioned broadway/R&B singer. I will be shocked if she ends up singing a song that was written after 1990 at any point in this competition. And, I can see how this would bore a big portion of the AI demographic (myself included).

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Diana Ross song from a musical? And a song that was written a few decades earlier?

[Ksyrup]

I'm fairly certain they have a "current charts" week or something, but I also recall that one or two people have taken advantage of that to perform songs off of reissues and greatest hits albums and the like. IIRC, within the past two years, someone did an Elvis song on current charts week...? What week was it that someone did Yesterday by the Beatles? Might have been the same thing.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Diana Ross song from a musical? And a song that was written a few decades earlier?

You are partly right. "Home" by Diana Ross (1978) was performed as the finale to "The Wiz" (updated musical adaptation of The Wizard of Oz).

So, chalk another showtune up for Melinda. I think they could have "Van Halen" week and she would look for some cover David Lee Roth did of a musical when he was solo and hyped up on coke.

[Ksyrup]

DLR turned everything he sang into a musical/show tune.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm fairly certain they have a "current charts" week or something, but I also recall that one or two people have taken advantage of that to perform songs off of reissues and greatest hits albums and the like. IIRC, within the past two years, someone did an Elvis song on current charts week...? What week was it that someone did Yesterday by the Beatles? Might have been the same thing.

Yeah.. they can go off of like any chart imagineable if my memory serves... so they can also just go to some really obscure chart (adult contemporary R&B or something... I just made that up, no idea if it exists) and pick something in the same mold.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

DLR turned everything he sang into a musical/show tune.

Turning something into a musical is certainly different. You start with the theme and "Make it your own."

Melinda does everything that the judges criticize others for outside of singing poorly.

[Ksyrup]

I know, I'm just making a joke about DLR.

[Arles]

and it was a funny one -

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Turning something into a musical is certainly different. You start with the theme and "Make it your own."

Melinda does everything that the judges criticize others for outside of singing poorly.

Such as?

[Ksyrup]

Sounding and looking like she should have graduated high school with my mother.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Such as?

Off the top of my head:

1. "Being old fashioned" (criticisms of Haley, Gina, Jordin, Lakisha and Stephanie so far).
2. "you're in this Chris Daughtry zone right now where you're doing your own thing and it’s a little bit boring. " (Blake).
3. "Not taking chances and pushing yourself" (Chris R, Gina, Lakisha).

[Ksyrup]

Put it this way...during British Invasion week, when they all sang songs that were 40+ years old, she managed to find a song that made those songs sound like they came from the 90s by comparison.

[MJ4H]

That is hardly everything. I do agree that she could make herself a little more modern. I don't agree she doesn't "make songs her own" (AI cliches get on my nerves). What this means is not completely change the song to a new style. This means not copy-catting a previous performance of the song. Musicians call this "interpretation" rather than using an AI catch-phrase ("pitchy" anyone?). If a performer is just mimicking a previous performance, they are not interpreting the music at all. Just copying. One of the thing Melinda does best, in my opinion, is interpretation. She really does interpret the music and lyrics, and perform them her own way. Yes it is usually not in a modern style, but the style she is using isn't really relevant to the interpretation. If she were to change the style of the piece to hip-hop/R&B, then we can start talking about arrangements. Here is where Chris Sligh and Blake sometimes get taken to task for doing an arrangement of a song that is not really warranted. Arranging isn't necessarily in a new style by definition, but it sometimes is. What Blake and Chris Sligh have done in the past by taking an old standard and trying to modernize it is arranging the song in a different style. This is not what the judges mean by "make it your own" (which is a very confusing phrase and one of the reasons it gets on my nerves).

Yes, I agree that Melinda's style is not very modern and that other contestants have been criticized for this very thing. No, I don't agree Melinda does not make songs her own (she is actually by far the best on the show at unique musical interpretation--if anyone wants, I can elaborate on why I think this).

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Yes, I agree that Melinda's style is not very modern and that other contestants have been criticized for this very thing. No, I don't agree Melinda does not make songs her own (she is actually by far the best on the show at unique musical interpretation--if anyone wants, I can elaborate on why I think this).

I completely agree with this. She is by far the best performer and interpreter of any of the contestants, probably ever on the show. My issue is that she's not in the ballpark of being marketable to any relevant AI demographic. If Clay Aiken's principal fanbase was grandma's, maybe that's where Melinda's fanbase lies, too (apart from those voting for her simply becaue she's clearly the best contestant). It's both song choice and her appearance that she has skated by on. Even Lakisha has been criticized for her "style." And aside from being big and wearing some stuff that wasn't very flattering, I don't see why Melinda isn't subject to the same criticism.

Admittedly, I'm looking at the big picture here and trying to understand how she fits any definition of American Idol, because regardless of the party line that this is a "singing competition," clearly there's more to it than that, since the point of this is to establish name recognition in an artist that the people behind the show can then sell. And on that basis, she's going to be a failure. She needs to prove that she can sing and interpret relevant music. She hasn't done that yet.

[MJ4H]

Can you define "relevant music" and explain why you consider it relevant?

[Ksyrup]

Marketable. The whole point of this show is to sell as many albums as possible. Putting aside the sheep who buy every winner's album regardless of whether they actually like it or not, I don't see a demographic she appeals to that would add considerable sales to the AI crowd. Not to mention, an "idol" is someone relevant to the current generation; it's someone ahead of the curve and/or doing something different. An "idol" is not someone who bores 40 year olds.

Many of the people voting for her are doing so in the context of the competition. If I were a voter, I'd be voting for her, too. But I don't confuse that support for support of her as an artist. Who wants to hear showtunes, honestly? Maybe you would buy her album of standards and 70s R&B/disco songs because you simply like her voice and the way she interprets each song, but that's not much of a marketing plan to get Joe and Josephine Blow to buy. Hell, Chris R. is more relevant to me than she is, and I can't stand him.

[MJ4H]

That's fair. I'm not sure I agree that that is the entire point of the show, but I can certainly see that viewpoint. I think the entire point of the show is to be entertaining in and of itself. I can see your point of view on that, though.

Personally, I'd buy an album of hers in a heartbeat because I love great musicians. I agree that the relevant music issue you bring up is a concern, but I feel it is being a little blown out of proportion in this thread. I don't think it is the ultimate goal of the show, and it is certainly not a goal of mine. I do see how it is important to people, though.

[Ksyrup]

Well, I don't see myself ever buying an album from an AI contestant, so I'm not looking at it from that perspective for my own purposes, just what I think the ultimate goal of the show is. However, from the standpoint of an entertaining show, I can't say she's contributing much to that for me. I think I've said it before in this thread, but ever time she performs, I have this dual reaction - that was an incredible performance and yet so awful. It's hard for me not to divorce how she performs from what she performs. So I'm both entertained and bored/sickened by her at the same time.

[Arles]

I think to be a success, you have to have some kind of "pop" aspect to your performance. By this I mean the ability to release a song that resonates with a large demographic that cares about the show. The best contestants in this area (also factoring in talent) were Kelly, Carrie, Chris D, Bo and Katharine McPhee. Not surprisingly, these have also been the most successful after AI. The contestants that have not had this aspect are noteably Elliott Yamin, Ruben, Tamyra, Diana DeGarmo and even Taylor Hicks. Now, many would argue that the second group actually has "better singers", but they didn't amount to much because their style/performance didn't resonate. I think Lakisha and Melinda will find they are part of the latter while someone like Chris R, Blake or Jordin could make the former if they continue to improve.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think to be a success, you have to have some kind of "pop" aspect to your performance. By this I mean the ability to release a song that resonates with a large demographic that cares about the show. The best contestants in this area (also factoring in talent) were Kelly, Carrie, Chris D, Bo and Katharine McPhee. Not surprisingly, these have also been the most successful after AI. The contestants that have not had this aspect are noteably Elliott Yamin, Ruben, Tamyra, Diana DeGarmo and even Taylor Hicks. Now, many would argue that the second group actually has "better singers", but they didn't amount to much because their style/performance didn't resonate. I think Lakisha and Melinda will find they are part of the latter while someone like Chris R, Blake or Jordin could make the former if they continue to improve.

This is a fair assessment.