The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

[Groundhog]

We should just dig up all the posts from back when Gooden was traded to the Bulls and Bulls fans were excited.

[Chief Rum]

Heh, heh, thanks everyone. In that case, glad his contract's done at the end of the season. Not that it matters--whoever plays PF the rest of the year for the Clips is just holding the spot down for Griffin next year.

[cartman]

Wow, the Grizz are sending Hasheem Thabeet, #2 overall draft pick, down to the D-League.

Sources: Memphis Grizzlies sending Hasheem Thabeet to D-League - ESPN

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by cartman

Wow, the Grizz are sending Hasheem Thabeet, #2 overall draft pick, down to the D-League.

Sources: Memphis Grizzlies sending Hasheem Thabeet to D-League - ESPN

Did anyone really not see this coming? This was one of the biggest wastes of a top 5 pick in any sport ever.

[Groundhog]

I think this picture perfectly illustrates exactly what's wrong with too many NBA GMs these days:

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Wow, the Grizz are sending Hasheem Thabeet, #2 overall draft pick, down to the D-League.

Sources: Memphis Grizzlies sending Hasheem Thabeet to D-League - ESPN

I would be really excited by this move if I believe it would start a trend of sending raw talent down to the NBA "minors" to develop their game.

[whomario]

seriously.

IMO Thabeet has a lot of promise, but he needed to be drafted by a crappy team with a patient organisation. Yeah, well i know it was the Grizzlies and no one could expect them to suddenly play real basketball. But maybe they are patient at least ...
What i don´t get is why now when the playoff hopes are quickly going down. I can only figure they want him to get into a rythm for the last few weeks of the season in case a) they are in the playoff run and there´s an injury or b) they aren´t in it and want to play him bigger minutes.

Regarding last night : The Cavs looked really good from the few minutes i saw on replay, that was in the 2nd half though where they dominated the Celtics and the celtics looked like a lottery team ... They really depend on Rondo having a great game and the other team unable to figure out how to stop him. He is too passive to maintain pressure for 48 minutes and it´s not rocket science to figure out his weaknesses.

Stephen Curry is fun to watch




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3pIsA0Q0d0


Look at that Bird fly
didn´t yet see much of that game, so no idea how much of Billups big night was on Curry, but ah well ...
Warriors needed to move Ellis when they had a chance ...

Billups averaging a career high 20.2 a game now and about 24 in January/February on 47% and 48% from 3 and taking only about 15 FGAs. Also 7 assists and only 2 TOs.

[RainMaker]

It's not like Thabeet is 19, he's 23 years old. And what is the potential upside for him? Maybe a 10 point, 10 rebound, 3 block a night guy? Sure that's nice, but hardly worth a "project" pick at 2nd in the draft. With a flood of point guards in the draft, wouldn't they have been better off taking one of those or even trading down to where the Knicks were (who wanted Rubio bad).

[whomario]

Me saying Thabeet will amount to sth (imo) doesn´t mean i thing the Grizzlies didn´t blow that pick. They did. It´s not like Gasol had a weak rookie season, the guy was pretty good last year allready.
They had little need to draft a Center with that pick (and i realize "need" is relative for draft picks) and would have been much better off drafting any of the available PG prospects.
Heck, why not just take Rubio ? He would have fit nicely with their nucleus imo and the chance for him coming to Memphis might have been bigger than with the Timberwolves (higher salary, a fellow spanish player in Marc).

But i just have a hard time labelling anyone a bust after less than a full season, especially with a guy as likeable as Thabeet ...

[TroyF]

Virtually all of it came on Curry. Anytime the Warriors got close, one or more of three things happened.

1) Billups would take the ball and post up on Curry. 95% of the time it resulted in either a wide open shot for someone else or Billups would take him to the hole.

2) Ellis would come down and jack up an iladvised three pointer which the Nuggets would turn into a fast break basket.

3) JR would hit a bomb.

Big news out of this game for the Nuggets was Kenyon Martin going down with a bruised knee. It likely means they'll play shorthanded for the second game of a back to back yet again. Unbelievable.

One other note about this game. . . I cannot believe how far Biedrins has fallen off the deep end. I mean, it's truly amazing. The guy is simply horrible right now.

Thabeet? My God. I'm not sure what people expected. He's a project center. I think they missed on the pick as well, but I do think he'll develop into a solid player. They are close to 4% better in FG% defense with him on the floor than off it. And he doesn't know what the hell to do right now.

At this point, a lot of teams can be ashamed of themselves for their 2009 draft, but there are two teams that REALLY stick out to me:

1) Minnesota. I like Flynn. But you take a guy that isn't going to play for you, pass up Curry on two consecutive picks, and then trade Lawson for a future first? That's a waste. When Rubio is able to come over in three years, maybe they'll make up for some of this with a trade.

2) Knicks. Brandon Jennings and Ty Lawson were made for the system. I mean made for it. Either could have come in, solidified the PG position for the next ten years and been an asset down the road. Even guys like Jru Holliday, Collison, Teauge or Maynor could have helped them out. This was the best PG draft in 10 years and you have Chris Duhon playing 38 minutes a night. . . how is this difficult to figure out? Instead they draft Hill, a guy who was considered most similar as a prospect to ----- wait for it ---- Ronnie Turiaf.

Yeah, good call Knicks. Hope you win in FA, because if your scouting department is running the show, you are dead.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by TroyF

1) Minnesota. I like Flynn. But you take a guy that isn't going to play for you, pass up Curry on two consecutive picks, and then trade Lawson for a future first? That's a waste. When Rubio is able to come over in three years, maybe they'll make up for some of this with a trade.

Flynn projects terrible down the road, imo. Will never be a starter on a playoff team i´d say. Key things standing out so far : Small, can´t shoot all that well (especially when contrsted), isn´t a good finisher, can´t pass (like Aaron Brooks-bad), can´t run an offense.
All he does well is scoring in transition or when breaking down the defense, that´s it. As a 6 foot PG.
They also have sessions who is a much better passer but can´t shoot at all and is an even worse fit for the type of offense they are running although he is the better PG overall imo ...

Rubio can come over in 2011 if he wants to, hardly 3 years

[RainMaker]

Rubio would have never signed with Memphis. They would have been better off trading with the Knicks and picking up some marginal talent at that spot. Or going with a guy like Curry.

I'm not as down as whomario about Flynn. He plays in an offense that really isn't built for a creative PG at all while Jennings is basically allowed to run the show in Milwaukee. I think he can be a solid NBA PG in the right system. Jennings is also still relying on those who are hyping up his early season exploits. He's basically been shit the last 2 months. I like his upside but he's too focused on scoring when his strength is his passing.

[whomario]

Flynn isn´t a creative PG either He´s agressive and quick and a great ballhandler, not creative. Really kind of like Aaron Brook minus the shooting ability.

I agree that Jennings has been shooting bad since somewhere in december. But other than shooting he´s still been ok from what i´ve seen. I know that´s a big "other than" when you are talking about sub 35% shooting ...
But shooting can be taught/learned much easier than passing, especially when the player clearly has some shooting ability that´s just vanished for whatever reasons.

as far as the Wolves taking Curry : I am pretty sure the consensus here was that a) he shouldn´t have been picked as early as he was, much less by any team before that and b) that he wasn´t a PG at all.
Actually b) was one of the selling points for the Rubio+Curry idea.


Who has been great for Milwaukee is Andrew Bogut. Would like him to get to the FT line more (although for a guy getting 80% of his shots in and around the paint he sure doesn´t get much love from the refs), but other than that he´s playing great on both ends.
16/10 with 2.5 blocks and really, really good defense.

[stevew]

The cavs can't guard Ronda. We will have a very hard time with him, Nelson and Rose in the playoffs in the East. Chances are we will play 2 of those teams.

[TroyF]

That's why Mo's shooting is so critical. If he's not hitting shots, neither him or Delonte are all that good against quick PG's and Cleveland gets a big L in that matchup. If he's drilling threes, his offense makes Cleveland nearly unstoppable on that end and makes up for any of those defensive shortcomings.

Last night he was medicore to bad for three quarters. Cleveland struggled to put a Celtics team without Peirce away. Then Mo woke up. 3 straight bombs, back to back to back. The Celtics were never in the game again.

[whomario]

couple big nights to go with pretty good games last night.

Dallas down by 13 with 5:30 to go comes back late to beat Atlanta in OT, Dirk with 37, Kidd with a video game TD of 19/16/17

Plus a play that can be viewed as both insanely alert and really cheap, drawing contact with Atlanta Coach Woodson when Woodson was on the court by a feet or 2 during play, drawing a technical foul on Woodson. Seriously, how do you even recognize that as a player and then have the "smarts" to take advantage ?

Carlisle with a beautiful decicion to play a 2-3 zone with all 3 guards (kidd, terry, barea) and Nowitzki and Dampier.

Amazing game overall, especially that 4th quarter which was incredible.

Houston with their first win since the trade deadline, Scola (30), Martin (33) and Brooks (31) combining for 94 points
Spurs without Tony Parker once again ... They need to get Jefferson involved somehow (only 12 Points a game despite Parker and Ginobili a) missing game and b) playing crappy at times, the guy averaged 20 last year and 23 the season before that)

Knicks beat Wizards in OT. McGrady with 23/3/3 in 25 minutes but didn´t play late in the game. Lee 25/16/5 , Harrington 37 . Blatche 26/18/6 with 3 Blocks (but also 8 TOs) , McGee with 18/10 and 5 blocks.

Cleveland beats Raptors in OT, terrible defense from both teams from what i saw (heck, Reggie Evans scored 13 !!!) ... James the usual 36/6/9 with only 1 TO.


SUns beat the Clips and Robin Lopez scores 30 on 13-16 shooting, added 12 rebounds for good measure.
Hasn´t looked half bad prior to this game either, really gives the Suns a new dimension and that Lopez/Frye rotation is very interesting.


New Orleans beats Orlando, David West has 40 points on 16-24 shooting. The Magic are a stupid, stupid team. The ylet Aaron Gray take Howard out of the game because they didn´t pass the pall to Howard for basically the last 18 minutes...

[TroyF]

On the Kidd play. . . they were raving about it on tv too, but I see the same play once every couple of years. Earl Boykins did it against the Bucks coach a few years ago. On the replays you could see Boykins look at the coach and make a beeline for him. The coach was probably a foot on the floor when they made contact. Coach got T'd up just like Woodson did.

[Silver Owl]

Originally Posted by whomario

Me saying Thabeet will amount to sth (imo) doesn´t mean i thing the Grizzlies didn´t blow that pick.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what does "sth" mean. I've seen it in a couple of your other posts and can't for the life of me figure it out.

[whomario]

something

At least for me it does, no idea if that´s official in any way, shape or form

[Neon_Chaos]

NJ's about to lay the smackdown on Boston.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

NJ's about to lay the smackdown on Boston.

shouldn't you be under a tsunami warning?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

NJ's about to lay the smackdown on Boston.

this just in: KG has zero mobility left...Pierce is injured...Sheed hucks up way too many shitty 3's...Rondo+Ray Allen can't carry the team every night...the Celtics just aren't that good this year. First-round playoff exit. 2nd round exit at best.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

shouldn't you be under a tsunami warning?

A tsunami of awesomeness, perhaps!



I'm in Chicago right now. Will be here til the 20th of March.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

A tsunami of awesomeness, perhaps!



I'm in Chicago right now. Will be here til the 20th of March.

Aaaah that's right. Where's the tsunami of awesomeness in Chicago? *ducks*

jk...I love Chicago.

[Silver Owl]

Originally Posted by whomario

something

At least for me it does, no idea if that´s official in any way, shape or form

Ahhh ... OK, that makes sense.

[whomario]

Nicholas Batum with an amazing game against Minnesota. I just love his game, glad to see he´s getting his legs back after sitting out injured for the first 40 games.
Just love his game, he´s so versatile and smooth with his great mobility at 6´8/6´9. Really good defender against multiple positions (even guarding PGs at times), moves very well on rotations. And he´s worked on his offense over the summer, has become a very reliable 3 point shooter, can cut to the basket and put the ball on the floor. Great fast break player, good passer, very unselfish.
Tonight bets game of his career statistically 31/7/7 with no TO, 11-16 shooting, doing most of his damage in the 3rd where they really ran away with it.

Jefferson is like a clumsy bear out there right, even when he scores ... Everything stops once he has the ball and everybody has to go out of his way to get the ball to him. As soon as he´s beaten to the spot, that´s it, there´s no plan B here.

Timberwolves are god awfull ... Milicic looked good defensively once more ... Flynn was making a 101 for "how not to play as the PG" ...

Memphis really has zero depth, i can´t recall a team with a starting 5 that clear cut . Tonight again Conly the fewest minutes at 39, Gay and Mayo play 44.
Gaudy numbers by Randolph (31/25, 10 offensive) and Gasol (27/13/8) against the Knicks "front court" . McGrady not playing at all in the 2nd half ...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by TroyF

That's why Mo's shooting is so critical. If he's not hitting shots, neither him or Delonte are all that good against quick PG's and Cleveland gets a big L in that matchup. If he's drilling threes, his offense makes Cleveland nearly unstoppable on that end and makes up for any of those defensive shortcomings.

Last night he was medicore to bad for three quarters. Cleveland struggled to put a Celtics team without Peirce away. Then Mo woke up. 3 straight bombs, back to back to back. The Celtics were never in the game again.

I actually believed that Cleveland should have passed on Shaq and made a big play for Ben Gordon. He's had a bad year in Detroit for various reasons, but alongside Mo Williams would have given the Cavs some deadly shooting from behind the arc and a guy who could create offense with Lebron on the bench.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by whomario

I agree that Jennings has been shooting bad since somewhere in december. But other than shooting he´s still been ok from what i´ve seen. I know that´s a big "other than" when you are talking about sub 35% shooting ...
But shooting can be taught/learned much easier than passing, especially when the player clearly has some shooting ability that´s just vanished for whatever reasons.

Jennings put a big target on his head with that 55 point game. You see it with rookies all the time, they get hot, then teams start defensive game-planning them, things get tougher, their confidence takes a hit, etc. Jennings is so young and gifted that I find it tough to believe he WON'T end up a very, very good PG. I was really down on him prior to the draft but even with his current struggles I believe the Bucks made the right choice.

as far as the Wolves taking Curry : I am pretty sure the consensus here was that a) he shouldn´t have been picked as early as he was, much less by any team before that and b) that he wasn´t a PG at all.
Actually b) was one of the selling points for the Rubio+Curry idea.

Yup, I was surprised he went so early, but only by a few spots really, and I don't think anyone could have predicted he'd turn out to be such a capable PG - turnovers aside. I'd like to see how he played in a proper offense however.

Who has been great for Milwaukee is Andrew Bogut. Would like him to get to the FT line more (although for a guy getting 80% of his shots in and around the paint he sure doesn´t get much love from the refs), but other than that he´s playing great on both ends.
16/10 with 2.5 blocks and really, really good defense.

Bogut has been outstanding this year. It's a shame that Horford made the All-Star team over Bogut, though considering the team records I understand the decision. Still, Bogut is playing like I always thought he would if the Bucks made an effort to get him the ball.

[TroyF]

OK, NBA and David Stern. If you are going to set up a system for superstars, make it equal for all stars. Artest has thugged it up on Melo all game long. Then Melo fouls out for pushing Artest's arm away?

Seriously Stern, get your crap together. That wasn't a foul to begin with. with the way the game has been called, it clearly wasn't a foul. And you don't take Carmelo Anthony out of a close game on a call like that.

That call is unacceptable. Period.

(and no, the Nuggets won't lose because of that call, but that was horrible)

[TroyF]

FWIW, if Artest is allowed to beat the crap out of Melo without ever getting a call, the Nuggets can't beat the lakers in a series. If he fouls out like he should have after five minutes of playing like that, the Lakers have zero chance against this Denver Nuggets team. I'm now 100% convinced Denver would beat them in a seven game series if everything is equal.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

FWIW, if Artest is allowed to beat the crap out of Melo without ever getting a call, the Nuggets can't beat the lakers in a series. If he fouls out like he should have after five minutes of playing like that, the Lakers have zero chance against this Denver Nuggets team. I'm now 100% convinced Denver would beat them in a seven game series if everything is equal.

I'll admit I didn't watch too much of the game, only flipping over during breaks in the hockey action, and all in the first half. But it seemed to me, every time I went over, Kobe was getting mugged with no calls.

He wasn't the only one--the refs seemed to be letting a physical game take place. But I didn't see in that limited time any indication Melo was being called unfairly in comparison to other stars on the court.

I didn't catch even a second of the second half. Who the hell would watch this game while US-Canada hockey was going on?

[whomario]

in the earlier Spurs-Suns game there were 2 enormous brain farts by the Suns late. First Richardson missing a 1-0 breakaway dunk that had made it a tie game and afterwards forced the suns to foul to extend the game, then in the last seconds down 3 Nash plays a pass to Frye who was a good 5 feet inside the 3 point line (why was he inside the 3 point line is another mystery).
Would have been a tough shot anyway and he hit a huge one the possession prior to give them a chance, but that was ball game.

Great game prior to that, great execution offensively with the star players being great and the role players doing their part as well. Very fluent offense on both sides with Nash and Duncan showing vintage fundamental basketball once more, Duncan schooled Lopez in the 2nd half.

Stoudemire was good but also showed everything that makes you hate him. "Wait, he scored 35+ !!!" . Yeah, still ... He just can´t pass the ball even a little bit, zoned everyone arround him out of the game offensively ...

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'll admit I didn't watch too much of the game, only flipping over during breaks in the hockey action, and all in the first half. But it seemed to me, every time I went over, Kobe was getting mugged with no calls.

He wasn't the only one--the refs seemed to be letting a physical game take place. But I didn't see in that limited time any indication Melo was being called unfairly in comparison to other stars on the court.

I didn't catch even a second of the second half. Who the hell would watch this game while US-Canada hockey was going on?

Kobe actually settled for outside shots a majority of the game. It was kind of stunning. The refs idea was to let them play. . . except for calling Melo for two offensive fouls that just didn't pass the reality test. The last one was beyond idiotic. It was so bad that if I were in charge of the NBA the ref would be fired for incompetence.

I hate the style the refs were letting them play with. (Both sides) It was like the Finals series between the Knicks and Rockets. Dull and boring. But if you are going to let them play, let them play. Don't take Melo out of the game on a 100% screwjob BS call.

If both sides go into the series healthy, I'm now convinced the Nuggets will beat them. Afflalo can make sure Kobe doesn't go into ridiculous mode. (and has in all three meetings this year) Bynum hates playing Nene. The wild cards are Odom and Ty Lawson as neither team has someone who can control either guy.

Still, I think when healthy, the Nuggets are the better team head to head. We'll see in a few months.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Kobe actually settled for outside shots a majority of the game. It was kind of stunning. The refs idea was to let them play. . . except for calling Melo for two offensive fouls that just didn't pass the reality test. The last one was beyond idiotic. It was so bad that if I were in charge of the NBA the ref would be fired for incompetence.

I hate the style the refs were letting them play with. (Both sides) It was like the Finals series between the Knicks and Rockets. Dull and boring. But if you are going to let them play, let them play. Don't take Melo out of the game on a 100% screwjob BS call.

If both sides go into the series healthy, I'm now convinced the Nuggets will beat them. Afflalo can make sure Kobe doesn't go into ridiculous mode. (and has in all three meetings this year) Bynum hates playing Nene. The wild cards are Odom and Ty Lawson as neither team has someone who can control either guy.

Still, I think when healthy, the Nuggets are the better team head to head. We'll see in a few months.

Actually, I think this game was atrociously bad news for the Nuggets.

The Nuggets played exactly the way you want to play to beat the Lakers. The Nuggets are a tougher team, bigger, more aggressive. If they get into a skills contest with the Lakers, they lose. So they play the tough card, the softer Lakers quail a bit and the Nuggets are then playing a style that is conducive to their personnel.

The Nuggets did exactly that today. They shot 12 more free throws than the Lakers. They outrebounded the Lakers. They played a tough, physical game that takes guys like Gasol, Odom and Bynum out of their style of game. They muscled around on Kobe and he had an absolutely atrocious day.

Despite all that, the Nuggets lost. That's bad news. If the Nuggets don't beat the Lakers in a game like this, with Kobe having maybe the worst game he's had in years, are they going to beat them in seven in May, with four games at Staples? I don't think so.

[jbergey22]

Plus the Nuggets are playing at their peak right now. No chance Billups keeps this up.

With an average road record and a subpar record against sub 500 teams Id have a hard time believing that the Nuggets have changed a whole lot.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

a subpar record against sub 500 teams

soooo, hands up everyone who thinks they are going to play a sub 500 team in the playoffs ?

In the battle of the incompetent Washington comes back to beat the Nets, Blatche with 36/15/4.
27/12 since the all star break (7 games) on 56% shooting. The guy has been monstrous.
Nets backcourt atrocious as usual, Yi with 20/19 (12 offensive boards).

Thunder easily beat the Raptors (still without Bosh, now sliding with 3rd loss in a row), Ibaka 13/10 with 4 blocks

Magic beat heat despite an atrocious game by Howard.

Collison and Thornton again with big scoring nights, 35 (15-21 shooting !) for Collison and 21 for thornton.
Mavs still can´t guard quick PGs ... Nowitzki with 36/8/7 and zero TOs, that latter fact is unreal.
Last 3 games : 104 points, 70 FGs, 25 FTs. 3 TOs.


Quote of the night :

I think in the second half they went into a zone and I think that it really hurt us

Kiki Vandeweghe. So, you think they went to a zone ?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by whomario

soooo, hands up everyone who thinks they are going to play a sub 500 team in the playoffs ?

Wouldnt you call this a sign of inconsistency? Which is basically my point. You cant just give away a couple games to the Lakers and expect to win the series.

[Neon_Chaos]

I think Artest just earned his paycheck against the Nuggets.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Wouldnt you call this a sign of inconsistency? Which is basically my point. You cant just give away a couple games to the Lakers and expect to win the series.

I´d call that a sign of complacency and unless they happen to face a Laker team missing Bryant and Gasol it won´t exactly be an issue.

I dunno, i´d propably weigh them playing bad against the really good teams ("the big games") more *telling* for the playoffs than playing bad against bad teams.

I´m not even thinking they beat the Lakers, just found that reason you gave a bit off

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Actually, I think this game was atrociously bad news for the Nuggets.

The Nuggets played exactly the way you want to play to beat the Lakers. The Nuggets are a tougher team, bigger, more aggressive. If they get into a skills contest with the Lakers, they lose. So they play the tough card, the softer Lakers quail a bit and the Nuggets are then playing a style that is conducive to their personnel.

The Nuggets did exactly that today. They shot 12 more free throws than the Lakers. They outrebounded the Lakers. They played a tough, physical game that takes guys like Gasol, Odom and Bynum out of their style of game. They muscled around on Kobe and he had an absolutely atrocious day.

Despite all that, the Nuggets lost. That's bad news. If the Nuggets don't beat the Lakers in a game like this, with Kobe having maybe the worst game he's had in years, are they going to beat them in seven in May, with four games at Staples? I don't think so.

Both times this year the game involved skill, the Nuggets mopped the floor with the Lakers. Destroyed them.

You listed all of the things that happened with the Lakers, but how about what happened to the Nuggets? Ty Lawson played 6 minutes before getting hurt. He's someone the Lakers haven't even contained this year. The Nuggets shot 36%, and hit only 28% on 25 three point attempts. In last years playoff against the Lakers they shot that poorly exactly 0 times. In fact, this was the single worst shooting exhibition the Nuggets have had this year, both from two point and three point land. Yet when the BS foul call was made on Melo the Nuggets had the ball in a four point game.

All in all, I think Denver can feel pretty good about themselves.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Wouldnt you call this a sign of inconsistency? Which is basically my point. You cant just give away a couple games to the Lakers and expect to win the series.

They've blown some horrible games this year. As far as your point though, I think you are missing something. It's not a sign of inconsistency or complacency as much as it is about a sign that Denver is not nearly as deep as most other teams.

The Nuggets have 8 horrific losses this year. (I'm sorry, I'm not calling a loss in Memphis to be something horrible) 5 of them came on back to backs while missing one of their rotation players. In many of the losses, the previous game was grueling. (ex: They beat Cleveland without Melo in a close game and lost @ Sacremento on the road the next night, they won @Utah without Melo or Chauncey and lost the next night to the 76ers.) Yes, those losses are still bad losses, but while they should have won those games, they also had no business winning games this year without key players.

This is good and bad. It's good in the fact that I do think the Nuggets are capable of beating the Lakers in a 7 game series. (look guys, last year was closer than people think. If Anthony Carter isn't inbounding the ball in two games Denver has a shot)

On the down side. . . Denver could get worn down as the season moves on. They'll be in a dogfight for the 2 seed til the end. Chauncey has worn down the last two conference finals and it could happen again. And there are some really critical pieces beyond the stars that Denver simply can't replace over seven games because of how specialized those players are. Kenyon goes down? Now Malik Allen is going to play 20 minutes in a game. Ty Lawson goes down? Now we get Anthony Carter.The Nuggets 9-12 players don't belong on an NBA roster. If they have injuries, that will get exposed quickly and they may not make it out of round 2.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by TroyF

OK, NBA and David Stern. If you are going to set up a system for superstars, make it equal for all stars. Artest has thugged it up on Melo all game long. Then Melo fouls out for pushing Artest's arm away?

Seriously Stern, get your crap together. That wasn't a foul to begin with. with the way the game has been called, it clearly wasn't a foul. And you don't take Carmelo Anthony out of a close game on a call like that.

That call is unacceptable. Period.

(and no, the Nuggets won't lose because of that call, but that was horrible)

Stern doesn't get into fixing games till the playoffs.

[TroyF]

My reaction was harsh, but that foul call against Carmelo was just ridiculous. The ref in that situation needs to be fined if nothing else. It was either incompetence, money on the game or a hatred of Carmelo. I can't say enough about how bad that call was.

FWIW, I think Phoenix beats Denver pretty good tonight. 4th game in 5 nights for the Nuggets. An emotional loss in a real physical game in LA. I think the Suns have a great shot.

Shaq injured. I think this could be the best thing that ever happened to Cleveland. Shaq will now be fresh for the playoffs. Z will also get minutes (in 25 days or so) and be fresh for the playoffs. Things are setting up ridiculously good for Cleveland.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Both times this year the game involved skill, the Nuggets mopped the floor with the Lakers. Destroyed them.

You listed all of the things that happened with the Lakers, but how about what happened to the Nuggets? Ty Lawson played 6 minutes before getting hurt. He's someone the Lakers haven't even contained this year. The Nuggets shot 36%, and hit only 28% on 25 three point attempts. In last years playoff against the Lakers they shot that poorly exactly 0 times. In fact, this was the single worst shooting exhibition the Nuggets have had this year, both from two point and three point land. Yet when the BS foul call was made on Melo the Nuggets had the ball in a four point game.

All in all, I think Denver can feel pretty good about themselves.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't yesterday the first time the Nuggets even played the Lakers with all the Laker stars healthy? I know Kobe missed the last one. And I think Gasol missed the first. So I am not sure yet what to take from those two games, especially with a Lakers team that seems to be falling toward a Spurs attitude where they seem to be complacent until they get to the playoffs.

Also, I like Lawson, too, but I really think you overrate his impact. Billups and Smith have more of an impact for the Nuggets than Lawson does (against any team, much less the Lakers), and if Lawson's on the floor, one of those two ain't. I think it would be nice to see Lawson get more time, and the Nuggets definitely got a good steal in getting him where they did, but I don't think he rates better than several guards in this past year's draft (admittedly a strong one), including Evans, Jennings, Curry, maybe Harden and probably now Collison with how he's playing.

If the Lakers lose to the Nuggets in the playoffs, I'll guarantee you now it won't be because of Lawson.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by whomario

I´d call that a sign of complacency and unless they happen to face a Laker team missing Bryant and Gasol it won´t exactly be an issue.

I dunno, i´d propably weigh them playing bad against the really good teams ("the big games") more *telling* for the playoffs than playing bad against bad teams.

I´m not even thinking they beat the Lakers, just found that reason you gave a bit off

This goes right with what I think the problem with the Nuggets is though. Why do they get compacent in the first place? They havent exactly proved so much that they can kick back for a game or two and have a walk in the park. It's bad leadership or inconsistency or something.

You dont see the Lakers or Cavs losing around 50 percent of their games against bad teams.

Talentwise I think Troy is right that the Nuggets are right there with the Lakers but its still the mental side that is going to finish them off once again.

IMO Billups should not be the leader of this team it should be Carmello. When you are a top 5 player in the league you need to be the leader of the team.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

They've blown some horrible games this year. As far as your point though, I think you are missing something. It's not a sign of inconsistency or complacency as much as it is about a sign that Denver is not nearly as deep as most other teams.

OK I will give you this.

They are certainly not deep which doesnt help them on longer road trips or back to backs.

It still doesnt explain to me why one game they will look like the best team in the NBA and the next week I will watch them and they look like they could care less about playing that game. This has been the Nuggets of the past 2/3 years and not much has seemed to change this year.

If lack of depth or being tired or whatever is the reason they are losing to these sub 500 teams I just cant imagine how we can consider them a playoff threat. The playoffs are tough and they are going to have to show toughness game in and game out to win the NBA Championship. If by game 4 they are tired I cant see them being able to close out a series against a tough team.

[TroyF]

Aren't we blowing things out of proportion a bit jbergey? As of now, they have the fourth best record in the NBA. (and that'll be an outrite tie for the 3rd best team if they were to win tonight)

That's with Melo missing 13 games, Chauncey Billups missing 9 games, JR missing 7 (due to suspension) and Kenyon missing 6 games. I'm not suggesting that the Warriors are a playoff threat. I'm suggesting the second best team in the conference over the last 1.5 years, a team who took the Lakers to the brink last year and a team who has played unblievably well vs. playoff teams has a real chance to do damage.

I'm also saying that yesterday the Nuggets were on the wrong end of an unbelievably bad call, shot worse than they have in a game in over a year and were still right there. Assuming the Nuggets can stay healthy, I don't think my assertion that they can beat the Lakers (or anyone else) is some sort of a reach.

If that's a reach, we may as well not even hold the playoffs. The Lakers and Cavs will cruise into the finals like last year. . . errrr. . . sorry Cavs fans.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Aren't we blowing things out of proportion a bit jbergey? As of now, they have the fourth best record in the NBA. (and that'll be an outrite tie for the 3rd best team if they were to win tonight)

That's with Melo missing 13 games, Chauncey Billups missing 9 games, JR missing 7 (due to suspension) and Kenyon missing 6 games. I'm not suggesting that the Warriors are a playoff threat. I'm suggesting the second best team in the conference over the last 1.5 years, a team who took the Lakers to the brink last year and a team who has played unblievably well vs. playoff teams has a real chance to do damage.

I'm also saying that yesterday the Nuggets were on the wrong end of an unbelievably bad call, shot worse than they have in a game in over a year and were still right there. Assuming the Nuggets can stay healthy, I don't think my assertion that they can beat the Lakers (or anyone else) is some sort of a reach.

If that's a reach, we may as well not even hold the playoffs. The Lakers and Cavs will cruise into the finals like last year. . . errrr. . . sorry Cavs fans.

I agree with most of this. I don't think the issues with sub-.500 teams are a big deal, and I think it's unquestionably true that the Nuggets are the #2 team in the conference for sure, and that they are the clear top contender to take out the Lakers.

That said, I think you need to give credit where credit's due. You talk about the Nuggets' awful shooting day in two separate posts, and not once do you mention there was a team playing defense against them that might have had something to do with it.

And as for the bad call, sorry one call doesn't make the game. There was one play I saw one time when I flipped over from hockey where Kobe was manhandled by (I believe it was) JR Smith, forcing a Kobe turnover, and when Kobe predictably flipped out, they T'd Kobe up. It was pretty blatant, and got the Nuggets a point and a possession (don't remember if they scored). It was a ridiculously poor call by the refs; Smith smacked Kobe in the head on his way to slapping the ball. But it's just a call.

The Nuggets lost because they, the players, lost, not because of a call by the ref. They lost because they had a nice lead in the first half and abused Kobe into a poor day, but they didn't keep the lead. If you're looking for culprits, look to Denver's players, not the whistleblowers.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Also, I like Lawson, too, but I really think you overrate his impact. Billups and Smith have more of an impact for the Nuggets than Lawson does (against any team, much less the Lakers), and if Lawson's on the floor, one of those two ain't. I think it would be nice to see Lawson get more time, and the Nuggets definitely got a good steal in getting him where they did, but I don't think he rates better than several guards in this past year's draft (admittedly a strong one), including Evans, Jennings, Curry, maybe Harden and probably now Collison with how he's playing.

If the Lakers lose to the Nuggets in the playoffs, I'll guarantee you now it won't be because of Lawson.

I do agree, however (and i think that´s mainly what TroF is aiming at): it has been proven time and time again that the Lakers have big, big trouble guarding quick PGs.
The problem will be to exploit that while still keeping Billups and Smith on the court which will be near impossible. Heck, even playing just Lawson and Billups at the same time is near impossible as long as the Lakers play PG/Bryant/Artest/Gasol(Odom)/Bynum(Gasol).

Basically he´ll be a backup to Billups who´ll likely play 36-40 minutes.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Aren't we blowing things out of proportion a bit jbergey? As of now, they have the fourth best record in the NBA. (and that'll be an outrite tie for the 3rd best team if they were to win tonight)

That's with Melo missing 13 games, Chauncey Billups missing 9 games, JR missing 7 (due to suspension) and Kenyon missing 6 games. I'm not suggesting that the Warriors are a playoff threat. I'm suggesting the second best team in the conference over the last 1.5 years, a team who took the Lakers to the brink last year and a team who has played unblievably well vs. playoff teams has a real chance to do damage.

I'm also saying that yesterday the Nuggets were on the wrong end of an unbelievably bad call, shot worse than they have in a game in over a year and were still right there. Assuming the Nuggets can stay healthy, I don't think my assertion that they can beat the Lakers (or anyone else) is some sort of a reach.

If that's a reach, we may as well not even hold the playoffs. The Lakers and Cavs will cruise into the finals like last year. . . errrr. . . sorry Cavs fans.

Id like it if you were right. I find the Spurs and Mavs boring. I am hoping its Denver that pushes the Lakers.

They are fun to watch when they are playing well like they are this moment.