06-14-2006, 02:18 AM | #1201 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I take the point about the issues, but since I wasnt aware of them as I was not historically involved, I can do nothing except push people in the right direction for patch2. |
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06-14-2006, 02:20 AM | #1202 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Very unfair. When the reports were uploaded we tackled a ton of issues raised and got these fixed in the intial release. I'm just sad we didnt get this one for you. |
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06-14-2006, 02:21 AM | #1203 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I know of a lot of projects in progress (and I personally gave them big headstarts), much of the reason behind the slowness is the fact that it's an all new game. I know of roster sets, facepacks and even an application to edit the commentary XML. Some websites should be springing up soon too |
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06-14-2006, 02:29 AM | #1204 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI
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Good grief.
I just managed a game where we rallied from down 8-1 to get to within 8-4. Relief pitcher surrenders 4 runs to give the Padres a 12-4 lead. We get the 4 right back in the bottom of the 4th. They go up 13-8 in the top of the 6th, we tie it in the bottom of the 8th, and win it 14-13 in the 11th inning. 14 runs, 19 hits, and 11 walks. My leadoff hitter? 0-7 with no walks. Poor bastard. |
06-14-2006, 02:29 AM | #1205 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Whittier
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Sounds like someone needs his role re-evaluated
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06-14-2006, 02:59 AM | #1206 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI
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Quote:
Has anybody seen any weirdness like what's being registered for SS Valladores, who went 5-5 with a walk (no sacrifices of any kind; I checked), and yet left four men on base? His day, if anybody's interested and can maybe figure out what the game is counting here: bottom of the 2nd: singles Revell to 3rd bottom of the 3rd: singles home DeLeon and Lyall, Hockridge to 2nd bottom of the 4th: walks home Lyall, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd bottom of the 7th: leadoff single bottom of the 8th: singles home DeLeon, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd bottom of the 10th: leadoff single |
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06-14-2006, 05:33 AM | #1207 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Quote:
Heh - you'll have to forgive me then if I'm doing a clumsy job as 'service rep' isn't anything at all to do with my 'real job' which is development related (I'm one of the geeks who is hidden away from customers normally ), I'm just a tad over passionate about our games so tend to get involved in discusions about them and try and help people out where possible. |
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06-14-2006, 07:46 AM | #1208 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
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Yer doin good Marc. Enthusiasm for your products can be contagigous
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06-14-2006, 08:17 AM | #1209 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA
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Quote:
Looks like it counted whether or not players that were on base reached home when we batted. That can't be right, although now that I think about it, I'm not sure how this stat is counted. I'm guessing a batter is only credited for leaving runners on base if they record an out without advancing the runners.
__________________
Some knots are better left untied. |
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06-14-2006, 08:48 AM | #1210 | |
Dark Cloud
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Quote:
I dunno, that board seems like a pretty huge whinefest about the game. I mean, there are positive threads too, but I hate going over there because all we have there are 100 of the same thread about how "unplayable" the game is. It's like, ok, we get it. Now, shutup and go play something else and wait for the patch or log new reasons or something. At least here, its just one long thread, rather than 18 threads about it. I mean, seriously.
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06-14-2006, 03:47 PM | #1211 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI
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Quote:
Here's the thing. By my count, he came up to bat with a cumulative total of ten men on base, and drove in 4 of them. That leaves 6, but the game says he had 4 LOB. The only thing I can figure is that subsequent guys who score who were on base for him get removed from his LOB total. I'm going to go back through the game log and see if that's true. |
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06-14-2006, 04:00 PM | #1212 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI
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In looking at his performance with guys on base...
bottom of the 2nd: singles Revell to 3rd Revell out at home on a safety squeeze play bottom of the 3rd: singles home DeLeon and Lyall, Hockridge to 2nd Hockridge stranded at 2nd following F9 and 5-3 putouts bottom of the 4th: walks home Lyall, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd Hockridge and Revell score on McClean's single bottom of the 8th: singles home DeLeon, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd Hockridge scores on Bradshaw's single, Revell scores on Serrano's fielding error So of the six guys he didn't drive in, four scored anyway. Only two were put out. The only possible explanation here is that the game isn't counting the guys who were put out against him, but IS counting the guys who scored as having been LOB. Which is also retarded. Every definition I've found suggests that individual LOB is based on how many guys are on base when the batter makes an out - which I take to mean while he's the batter, not a subsequent baserunner. Even so, the only time Valladores was put out on base, he *was* the lead baserunner. In no situation did he record an out with anybody on base ahead of him, so why is he being charged with men LOB? |
06-14-2006, 04:14 PM | #1213 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Quote:
Are you telling me that you didn't do any research into the product you are responsible for overseeing/marketing/representing (not sure how you fit into all of this, forgive me)?? You didn't check out any of the previous versions?? You didn't check out the community...either at the old OOTP boards...SI boards...or, yes, even this one?? You didn't sit down with Markus and discuss what he had in mind for this version and how he could make it better than previous versions?? Far be it from me to tell you how to do your job, but as vocal as you are here about OOTP2006 you should know most, if not all, of the versions of OOTP inside and out by now and none of the issues that are being brought up now should be news to you. So, your plea of ignorance on the history of the game doesn't hold water with me. |
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06-14-2006, 04:17 PM | #1214 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB
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Quote:
Sorry Marc, the service rep comment was meant for Marc Duffy. |
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06-14-2006, 06:07 PM | #1215 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Yup and then you have the fact that. . . . . . . OK. What else can be said on this that hasn't been? 1) The game was released in bad shape and many people on this board find the game unplayable. (me included) 2) Some of these bugs have been here version after version. It's ridiculous they've slipped this long. It's frustrating. 3) With a two year window between the last release and this one, we should have seen a much more polished game. Some people, through past experiences and because of the three things listed above, have given up on the game. I can't argue with you. I think you have every right to be pissed and every right to want to move onto something else. I see the reason for bitter dissapointment. OK, now that's out of the way, what's Marc Duffy supposed to do? Everything is in the past and cannot be changed. We can have a variating on the same post for another 25 pages and it still won't change what's happened. I can assure you Marc is listening to the frustrated people and is interested in fixing the long standing issues. That doesn't mean the game is going to get fixed to my satisfaction or yours. I'm not going to make a promise as to how well the game will play at the end of this process. I can only say that SI seems pretty damned interested in making it right and as its Si's first go with the game, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure there is really anymore that can be said until the next patch is released. We all know the history at this point. We all know where each other stand. Nobody is moving for the next couple of weeks at least, and some may never move. I don't even know what I'm rambling about now. I guess the easiest way to say it is I'm holding off on my rips until patch 2 is released. If I'm not happy, I'll say so and move on. It won't be the first time I've made a poor PC game purchase and it will certainly not be the last. On the other hand, I think there is a chance many of the issues will be cleared up. (please, don't debate that point, maybe it's false optimism, maybe I'm insane, maybe I'm a stupid dolt, I'm ok with any of those descriptions) |
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06-14-2006, 08:53 PM | #1216 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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Quote:
I'm not giving up either, as critical as I've been. I just think it's more like a 4 patch fix, and am not getting my hopes up for July. |
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06-14-2006, 09:12 PM | #1217 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I have given up most hope for this years version, but I am surprised to say Bill Abner, well respected baseball game reviewer for years has not:
Quote:
http://sportsgamer.blogspot.com/ Last edited by Galaril : 06-14-2006 at 09:13 PM. |
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06-14-2006, 10:03 PM | #1218 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
If you think the major AI issues can get fixed, Bill is dead on. If you think the issues can't or won't be fixed because of past history, Bill is insane and should order PureSim so he can get on with a solid career. |
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06-14-2006, 10:21 PM | #1219 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Quote:
A little surprised myself, especially from Bill... but SI will either make him a genius or make him move on. |
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06-15-2006, 05:37 PM | #1220 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
I'm glad they got a headstart. I was just surprised that no MLB rosters were out yet. I know in previous versions we'd have 5 out by now. Are there any restrictions for those who want to get a headstart for future versions or do most people get what they need? |
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06-16-2006, 02:23 AM | #1221 | ||
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Quote:
I talked with Markus a lot before he started work on this version and have helped him a fair bit with the technical side of the game (ie. using our internal classes etc.) however I made the decision to leave the actual gameplay and design largely to Markus - Ive suggested a few things but the final decisions on such things have been entirely down to Markus. Why you say? - simply put I have only limited baseball knowledge and have only similar knowledge of his fan base, I've followed OOTP for around 4 years now and been impressed by Markus's design & development skills and how he's handles his games growing popularity .... hence I thought it best to allow him to get on with what he's good at rather than inject any inappropriate soccer stuff into the game. Quote:
As I've indicated I've followed OOTP from the outside for several years now and I'll happily admit that some of the issues people are indicating are 'old' are new to me, when you follow a game from the outside it is unfortunately impossible to obtain the same level of information as you do for a game you are involved in developing and immersed in the community of. I apologise for any lack of knowledge on SI's part, it isn't for want of trying .. The best thing imho for us to do is what we're attempting, simply monitoring feedback and using this to help guide Markus in his work. Obviously we'd all have preferred this release to be absolutely problem free, but life doesn't always work how you'd want ... Hope this helps, Marc |
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06-16-2006, 06:30 AM | #1222 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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Quote:
I'd love to be able to tell one of my customers that. Would go over really well... |
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06-16-2006, 07:25 AM | #1223 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Quote:
why not?
__________________
Mile High Hockey |
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06-16-2006, 12:05 PM | #1224 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
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FYI, they are going to remove the 14 day time limit from the demo with the next patch.
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06-16-2006, 12:10 PM | #1225 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Chicago, Ill
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Quote:
Good news.
__________________
Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? |
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06-16-2006, 12:12 PM | #1226 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Quote:
Yeah, it seems as though the AI needs to be completely rewritten. That's not a patch. |
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06-16-2006, 12:44 PM | #1227 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
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we should start having a pool on when patch 2 would be released (and no, Marc or Marc can't enter the pool). My vote: July 14.
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... |
06-16-2006, 01:48 PM | #1228 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Quote:
__________________
Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis |
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06-16-2006, 03:18 PM | #1229 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Yeah me too. |
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06-16-2006, 03:20 PM | #1230 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
I assume this is more fact than fiction. |
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06-16-2006, 03:27 PM | #1231 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Quote:
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06-16-2006, 03:40 PM | #1232 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Early, TX
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I'm not usually a person who whines about games, and can generally stand even the flawed ones, but this was the biggest waste of my gaming money ever. I am extremely annoyed and disappointed by this joke of a game.
OOTP2006 doesn't just need a face-lift - It needs a heart transplant. I had planned on finally buying FM my next paycheck (today), but there's no way I'm supporting a company that allows products such as OOTP ever see the light of day.
__________________
Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross |
06-16-2006, 04:57 PM | #1233 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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Quote:
I don't know what kind of customers you and Draft Dodger have but if I told my customers or business partners that when I completely dropped the ball I'd be looking for a new job. |
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06-16-2006, 06:26 PM | #1234 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Quote:
Anyone that thought this game was going to be perfect and have no major flaw that needs to be fixed in a patch, was kidding theirself. It's about time people adjust their expectations when it comes to the Sports Sims, because there is always the need for a patch that fixes a major flaw, from my experiences.
__________________
Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO! Last edited by DanGarion : 06-16-2006 at 06:34 PM. |
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06-16-2006, 06:52 PM | #1235 | |
Banned
Join Date: May 2003
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Quote:
You're missin out. |
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06-16-2006, 06:58 PM | #1236 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Same here. Big Four accounting firms don't like that..........at all. Last edited by Galaril : 06-16-2006 at 06:59 PM. |
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06-16-2006, 10:10 PM | #1237 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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[quote=dangarion]It's about time people adjust their expectations when it comes to the Sports Sims, [quote]
You are right. It's about time that we all stop buying these games until the developers actually deserve our purchase. I can tell you I've learned my lesson. |
06-16-2006, 10:16 PM | #1238 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
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06-17-2006, 08:19 AM | #1239 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: PA
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Is there any summarization anywhere of the major flaws with this game as it stands now without the second patch?
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06-17-2006, 10:03 AM | #1240 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
You're joking right? |
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06-17-2006, 10:59 AM | #1241 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Dirty
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Quote:
If you went to a restaurant where you ordered you food and always had to wait another hour after your meal came so the kitchen could re-make the sauce, would you lower your expectations, keep giving them your business and go on with it? I don't know why we're supposed to lower our standards for games because the industry standard has been to release a 3/4 finished game and then patch it a few times in a few months to make it the game they promised. At some point, the consumers are going to have to take a stand if they ever actually want that game. |
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06-17-2006, 11:09 AM | #1242 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Quote:
sum-mar-i-za-tion |
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06-17-2006, 11:40 AM | #1243 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Bill Abner finally sees the light with the AI.
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06-17-2006, 11:41 AM | #1244 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I love Markus as a developer, but I think he is having a mid-career slump.
Up until about v5 I think Markus was hitting HR after HR. The game kept getting better and he was quick to address the problems. then it appears that Markus was bored with the straight forward process and tired to elaborate on OOTP without addressing some of the core issues that remained. First we had the .400 merge - I don't think I would classify this as Markus's fault, but it was the first time he felt the need to "merge" and not stay solo. This of course didn't work out to well. ITP - very interesting in concept, very thin in actual game play, and then completely and totally abandoned. H2H - the big K with the bases loaded in the world series, promised, not delivered, promised in patch, not delivered, promised in update, not delivered and then completely swept under the rug. The funny thing about H2H is I doubt I would have even used it that much, it was the way that is was handled that I thought was so poor. And now the official stance seems to be that it was all just a bad dream and never really happened. 6.5 - hey I would line Makus's pocket with gold, I would easily pay twice what the games cost - put 6.5 was a 20 patch IMO. and almost EVERY feature that we paid 20 for in 6.5 was left out of 2006. Merger with SI - jury is still out, but the bottom line is the merger has been one of the best reasons why the game has gone from a MLB sim to a world sim - some may view that as a good thing, I think most (the core customer base of MLB players) do not. Missing opening day release - yes software should be released when it is ready and tested and all that. But outside of cash flow reason, 6.5 should have been skipped and 2006 should have been done and completed in time for opening day. again if you are looking at it from a world viewpoint opening day is meaningless, if you are looking at it from a MLB standpoint - it is vital. 2006 - some nice things, but essentially this game has changed directions - v3-6 were some of the best games I ever played - 2006 will sit mostly unused next week when Head Coach comes out. Here is to hoping that Markus refocus and gets back to the core of what made OOTP such a great franchise. |
06-17-2006, 12:00 PM | #1245 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: A negative place
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Quote:
Seriously, you're really starting to sound like one of those guys who whines about everything. Is the game in sad shape ... yeah, you've made your point. But Marc V comes on here, and is very honest. He says he apologizes if there were things that were wrong in previous versions that weren't fixed but that regardless they are commited to improving the game. To me, that's the kind of stand up statement that I can appreciate. I mean would you prefer the alternative - SI to come here and say the game is great, there's nothing wrong and there's only a minority complaining? If so, go to the maximum football sight and enjoy yourself. I think we'd all prefer that the game was fixed before release. It wasn't. But all the whining in the world isn't going to change that. If you don't want to buy OOTP again, fine. But it really is childish when a developer comes on here and apologizes and you still find need to bash them. |
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06-17-2006, 12:21 PM | #1246 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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Quote:
That's no apology. That is utter bullshit. An apology would read something like: We are sorry for releasing a game that hasn't met our pre-release marketing and has fallen well short of our customer's and our expectations. We will continue to do everything possible to correct this as quickly as possible. Thanks for your continued interest and patience. I might be whining, but I'm not the one who released a piece of shit game. If you go to the OOTP boards you can already see that SI is quick to embrace those that are positive about the game - anyone with any sense can tell you if you want to improve you need to listen to your critics, not your blind supporters. |
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06-17-2006, 12:39 PM | #1247 |
Mascot
Join Date: May 2006
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IMO people here are getting WAY too rosy about 6.5 and just want to bash 2k6. There are huge AI issues, I agree. These issues have been with the game for a long time and it's kind of curious that so many of you only calling the game unplayable because of these now, but that's another story. To say that this somehow makes the game a step backwards from 6.5 is ludicrous. 6.5 had a broken *game engine*. You couldn't adjust for eras very well at all, ballparks were tied to the pitcher's handedness rather than the hitters, and lefty/righty splits were all messed up as well. If I had to choose between a game that produced okay baseball and had AI issues and one that did okay with roster AI but had a messed up stat engine, I would take the former game every single time. I would then lobby to get that game's AI issues settled, but I sure as hell would not move back to the title that didn't care whether my team played in the Polo Grounds or Old Comiskey Park, or made leagues hit .320 if you adjusted HRs, walks, and Ks to deadball era levels and left everything else alone.
As for this "if you said this in my job you'd be fired" garbage, I also work in customer service. It's my job in many cases to break bad news to people. I'm sorry, but this is a world inhabited by humans. It's not perfect by any means. If I go into a restaurant and have to wait a long time to get something, I am 1000% more impressed if the staff comes out, explains what's going on, and apologizes than if they say "everything is going good." In fact, I will often give restaurants a "mulligan" on mistakes if they're polite and apologetic about them. If you're the kind of person who throws that politeness back into someone's face, then... well, I'm glad I'm not you, I guess. |
06-17-2006, 12:42 PM | #1248 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
uh, isn't that what we just got??? |
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06-17-2006, 12:53 PM | #1249 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Quote:
My thoughts exactly when I made that comment saying I say that all the time. |
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06-17-2006, 02:55 PM | #1250 | ||
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
Quote:
But if I ever said, "but life doesn't always work how you'd want," I'd probably get punched in the face. The first time Mrs. kcchief19 and I went on a date, we went out for pizza and ordered a split pizza with two different ingredients on each side. They accidentally messed up the order and put the wrong combination of ingredients so both sides were incorrect. The server said we could have that pizza for free and they would make us up a correct pizza as fast as possible. Good answer. If she day said, "doesn't always work how you'd want," we would have asked to see the manager, left without paying for that abomination and never gone back. I don't think that's what Marc meant and I think he's frustrated too. That's why when you're representating your company sometimes its better not to say anything or take a moment and think about it before reacting. It's an innocent mistake, but it eventually results in people just stacking one issue on to another and getting more frustrated than they need to be. |
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