The Trump Presidency – 2016

[albionmoonlight]

Imagine for a second if George W. Bush Googled himself and didn't like the results. So he said that he Googled himself and didn't like what he saw, so he is going to explore the government taking over Google.

Think about the reaction.

Trump did that. And things are so fucked up that it doesn't even get a blip of attention.

We won't be able to go back to the way things were. Not even close.

[digamma]

To be fair, Trump didn't google himself. He saw Lou Dobbs read a story from a blog about google results.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by digamma

To be fair, Trump didn't google himself. He saw Lou Dobbs read a story from a blog about google results.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by digamma

To be fair, Trump didn't google himself. He saw Lou Dobbs read a story from a blog about google results.

Lou Dobbs and Diamond & Silk are basically cabinet members.

[CrimsonFox]

Oh dear. Trump banned from the funeral yet Obama speaking at it and Biden a pallbearer. cheeto will go crazy that day.

[larrymcg421]

So Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez tweets out a nice statement about John McCain:

John McCain’s legacy represents an unparalleled example of human decency and American service.

As an intern, I learned a lot about the power of humanity in government through his deep friendship with Sen. Kennedy.

He meant so much, to so many. My prayers are with his family.

And she gets absolutely ripped apart by so-called leftists who feel the need to educate her about everything McCain has done wrong in his career. Fuck those people. I'd rather they just fucking left the party than cater to their immature, smarmy, out of touch brand of politics. (And I'm not even really a fan of Ocasio-Cortez).

[Drake]

I try not to listen to ideological purists. Especially of the suffocatingly leftist variety. They're the democrat version of Ayn Rand apologists on the right, and should be dismissed accordingly.

[Drake]

Though we should make them wear sashes that say something like "I learned everything I know about Topic X from Political Science 101 and shitposts on Reddit."

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Imagine for a second if George W. Bush Googled himself and didn't like the results. So he said that he Googled himself and didn't like what he saw, so he is going to explore the government taking over Google.

Think about the reaction.

Trump did that. And things are so fucked up that it doesn't even get a blip of attention.

We won't be able to go back to the way things were. Not even close.

please. like GW could use a computer...

[Thomkal]

So a banker for Manafort had his Ipad and briefcase stolen from his apartment in NYC last night after reports about Manafort trying to make a deal with Mueller came out-in an area of NYC that has not seen any robberies since Jan 2017. Guy left the door to his balcony open, so the thief got in that way. Strange this happened when it did. They haven't said what was on the IPad or in the briefcase yet.

[molson]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez tweets out a nice statement about John McCain:

And she gets absolutely ripped apart by so-called leftists who feel the need to educate her about everything McCain has done wrong in his career. Fuck those people. I'd rather they just fucking left the party than cater to their immature, smarmy, out of touch brand of politics. (And I'm not even really a fan of Ocasio-Cortez).

I know these people really exist but I think there's always a Russian troll element as well, making that voice louder.

[JPhillips]

Paul Ryan's PAC is using information from a security clearance to smear the Dem running against David Brat in VA. It's a little unclear how they got it, they claim the post office incorrectly gave it to them. The PAC admits they shouldn't have it, but now that they do they aren't retracting or apologizing for using it. The woman in question worked for the CIA and seemingly worked at an Islamic school as part of her work. Of course, the PAC is painting her as a terrorist sympathizer for working at an Islamic school.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/u...super-pac.html

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by corbes

I'm increasingly worried about the effects of negative partisanship on both sides.

This is my larger concern.

I think the other issue is rather than leading, we have a bunch of people that pander to their constituents.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by molson

I know these people really exist but I think there's always a Russian troll element as well, making that voice louder.

I am somewhat refreshed knowing that at least some percentage of the online trolls are Russians. Makes me feel better about our country a tiny bit.

[JPhillips]

Off to a good start in FL governor race.

Uh Ron DeSantis just said FL shouldn't "monkey this up" by electing Andrew Gillum pic.twitter.com/nDPp3Hx7zc

— Steve Morris (@stevemorris__) August 29, 2018

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Off to a good start in FL governor race.

I'm missing the days when the racists at least pretended not to be ...

[ISiddiqui]

Florida's Gov race is going to be nuts. A Trumper vs. a Sandernista. Should be very interesting.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'm missing the days when the racists at least pretended not to be ...

It's an interesting question. I miss the innocent joy of when I was naive.

But I think that, since it turns out that the racism has always been there, I'd rather it be on the surface. I'd rather the battle lines be drawn more openly than pretending that we're really arguing about marginal tax rates or some other such proxy for the actual fight.

[Thomkal]

Guess that working with Mueller didn't go over so well after all:


Trump says White House Counsel Donald McGahn will leave his job in the fall - The Washington Post


Edit: And of of course McGahn didn't know Trump was going to tweet about it

[panerd]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It's an interesting question. I miss the innocent joy of when I was naive.

But I think that, since it turns out that the racism has always been there, I'd rather it be on the surface. I'd rather the battle lines be drawn more openly than pretending that we're really arguing about marginal tax rates or some other such proxy for the actual fight.

Lesson 101: How slam dunk elections like 2016 are lost...

Painting over 60 million people a lot of whom do care about such "meaningless" things like higher tax rates as closet racists.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by panerd

Lesson 101: How slam dunk elections like 2016 are lost...

Painting over 60 million people a lot of whom do care about such "meaningless" things like higher tax rates as closet racists.

But that's the thing. It isn't in the closet anymore. We know what policies the GOP will enact on racial issues. They are open about it. In 2016, they weren't.

So, if going forward, one either agrees with those policies or considers them not a big deal relative to tariffs or whatever, then one will continue to vote GOP. But there's more clarity on what that means.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Lesson 101: How slam dunk elections like 2016 are lost...

Painting over 60 million people a lot of whom do care about such "meaningless" things like higher tax rates as closet racists.

I think its fair to say in Florida at least the Republican party is quite open about their racist nature .... I personally liked it better when they pretended they cared about other things like balancing budgets, remember those days when huge deficits were said to be 'bad' ... ?

Republican Nominees comments on Democratic Candidate

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But that's the thing. It isn't in the closet anymore. We know what policies the GOP will enact on racial issues. They are open about it. In 2016, they weren't.

So, if going forward, one either agrees with those policies or considers them not a big deal relative to tariffs or whatever, then one will continue to vote GOP. But there's more clarity on what that means.

You lose a lot of credibility overall when you insinuate that anyone who sides conservative is a defacto racist.


Ive said it before, I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I voted for our current sitting President. Yet despite that, given the choice I had to make between Hillary or what we have, I'd hold my nose and make the same selection again today.



Has nothing to do with race.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

You lose a lot of credibility overall when you insinuate that anyone who sides conservative is a defacto racist.


Ive said it before, I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I voted for our current sitting President. Yet despite that, given the choice I had to make between Hillary or what we have, I'd hold my nose and make the same selection again today.



Has nothing to do with race.

It's pretty much entirely about race.

There is no world where you can state with credibility that you observed Trump during the campaign, with his stoking of White anxieties and enthusiastic retweets of White nationalists, or as President (Charlottesville; ignoring the deaths of brown Americans in Puerto Rico but getting super anxious about Texas' own hurricane issues), walk away going "but he's better than Hillary," and have it not be about race.

His entire *campaign* was about race on one level or another. Chase those immigrants out and build a wall! They're taking our jobs! And they're murderers and rapists besides!

And how 'bout those black people? They just can't help themselves, when they live in inner cities they just go a murderin' god-fearin' white folk (and each other when they can't find any white people to murder).

And those Haitians all have AIDS and black people are automatically low intelligence if they say anything bad about me and and and and

[RainMaker]

Not all conservatives are racist but most racists are conservative.

I mean it's not just a coincidence that all these white nationalists were suddenly working for the White House.

[Ben E Lou]

Fascinating to see CU tiger and Sack talk right past each other there.

CU: “I don’t care if he’s racist; Hillary’s worse.”
Sack: “But he’s racist!”

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

Painting over 60 million people a lot of whom do care about such "meaningless" things like higher tax rates as closet racists.

How many people were getting a tax cut with Trump that wouldn't have with Hillary?

At least Hillary's plan didn't massively increase the deficit that those fiscal conservatives seem to care about when a black man is in office.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

You lose a lot of credibility overall when you insinuate that anyone who sides conservative is a defacto racist.


Ive said it before, I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I voted for our current sitting President. Yet despite that, given the choice I had to make between Hillary or what we have, I'd hold my nose and make the same selection again today.



Has nothing to do with race.

I'm always curious when people say this-how much worse would it be right now if Hillary was President instead if you are ashamed and embarassed by Trump?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

It's pretty much entirely about race.

There is no world where you can state with credibility that you observed Trump during the campaign, with his stoking of White anxieties and enthusiastic retweets of White nationalists, or as President (Charlottesville; ignoring the deaths of brown Americans in Puerto Rico but getting super anxious about Texas' own hurricane issues), walk away going "but he's better than Hillary," and have it not be about race.

His entire *campaign* was about race on one level or another. Chase those immigrants out and build a wall! They're taking our jobs! And they're murderers and rapists besides!

And how 'bout those black people? They just can't help themselves, when they live in inner cities they just go a murderin' god-fearin' white folk (and each other when they can't find any white people to murder).

And those Haitians all have AIDS and black people are automatically low intelligence if they say anything bad about me and and and and

I dont know Trump. I'm pretty hesitant to ever throw out the "racist" accusation on someone without personal knowledge/ That said I think it's pretty clear if he isn't a full on racist, he definitely has some (a lot) white superiority beliefs. Which I completely oppos.


That said, despite that fact, as much as it abhors me, I'd still vote for him again over the alternative.



I dont know any other way to make that statement.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I would assume it's along the lines of "while his public persona and his speech is embarrassing, he generally has my interests in mind with actions and policies."

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

You lose a lot of credibility overall when you insinuate that anyone who sides conservative is a defacto racist.

Then I should clarify. Voting GOP does not mean that you are racist. But it does mean that you don't consider racism a deal breaker.

I'm the same way just on different issues. I'm against abortion. But the issue isn't a deal breaker for me, so I tend to vote democratic.

I imagine that very few people agree 100% with either party on every issue. But the response isn't to pretend that the party you support actually agrees with you. It's to acknowledge that you value some issues more than others and vote accordingly.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Fascinating to see CU tiger and Sack talk right past each other there.

CU: “I don’t care if he’s racist; Hillary’s worse.”
Sack: “But he’s racist!”

One major point of contention. I never said nor will I ever say, "I dont care if he's racist" I care deeply. Yet despite how much I care, Hillary's still worse.

[Atocep]

I have no problem seeing racists and those that support racists called out. If it loses elections for Dems right now so be it. That's the embarrassing state of our country right now and I'd rather those people's true feelings be out there to be called out instead of known but not spoken about.

As RainMaker stated, not all conservatives are racist but if you are a racist you're probably conservative.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

One major point of contention. I never said nor will I ever say, "I dont care if he's racist" I care deeply. Yet despite how much I care, Hillary's still worse.

Right. Voting is about compromise and hard choices. And the point I was trying to make above (pretty hamhandedly I guess) is that I prefer a world where the parties are more open about what they believe so that we can make these choices more openly and with less obfuscation.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

One major point of contention. I never said nor will I ever say, "I dont care if he's racist" I care deeply. Yet despite how much I care, Hillary's still worse.

Sorry about that. That's not what I meant, nor what I think you were thinking. By "I don't care" there, I simply meant...."Even if he is racist..." Better?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Sorry about that. That's not what I meant, nor what I think you were thinking. By "I don't care" there, I simply meant...."Even if he is racist..." Better?

No apologies necessary. But, yes. Better.


Sorry if I am a bit sensitive.


Its been an interesting couple weeks around the Tiger house. My youngest daughter just started public school (K5). Suddenly she is more aware that she is black and mommy and daddy are white. She knows her bio mom as momma d and we've always been open and honest. But suddenly we are facing mean kid syndrome.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Fascinating to see CU tiger and Sack talk right past each other there.

CU: “I don’t care if he’s racist; Hillary’s worse.”
Sack: “But he’s racist!”

Fascinating indeed.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Fascinating to see CU tiger and Sack talk right past each other there.

CU: “I don’t care if he’s racist; Hillary’s worse.”
Sack: “But he’s racist!”

'Cept that isn't what he said. He said "I'm ashamed and embarrassed but I supported him over Hillary and I'd do it again; and that's not about race."

My point is, Trump's politics *are* racial politics, by and large. You need exactly two data points to figure out what Trump is going to do in a given situation.

Can he shit on minorities? If so, he will.

Are there no minorities to shit on, but an opportunity to self-aggrandize? Bank on it.

And if you look at that dumpster fire and go "still better than Hillary would be," then at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you tell yourself - it's about race.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I dont know Trump. I'm pretty hesitant to ever throw out the "racist" accusation on someone without personal knowledge/ That said I think it's pretty clear if he isn't a full on racist, he definitely has some (a lot) white superiority beliefs. Which I completely oppos.

So what makes someone a full on racist?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I'm always curious when people say this-how much worse would it be right now if Hillary was President instead if you are ashamed and embarassed by Trump?

Curious about this as well.

How anyone with a brain ( and CUTiger does) can witness the daily tragedy that is Trump and think we are still better off blows my mind.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

d if you look at that dumpster fire and go "still better than Hillary would be," then at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you tell yourself - it's about race.

As someone who didn't vote for either and wouldn't, that's nonsense. The only way this would be true is if you make race the only possible issue on which to make a voting decision. The picture isn't nearly that simplistic.

[RainMaker]

I have to ask. What is it you found so bad about Hillary? What policy were you afraid of.

I mean I'm not a big fan of her but I feel like I'd vote for her over the person who thinks my daughter is an inferior race. Who feels my daughter is not a "real American" and someone who should know their role and not speak up.

There are definitely things I'd overlook in a candidate (infidelity for example) if their policies aligned with mine. But if they thought my child was subhuman, I think at worst I'd just write someone else in.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

How anyone with a brain ( and CUTiger does) can witness the daily tragedy that is Trump and think we are still better off blows my mind.

I'd say it just underestimates the antipathy of HRC. I personally couldn't consider her because of her record and conduct on multiple levels; I have a cousin who is a liberal, and voted for her as the best option, but definitely did so holding her nose and thinks she would have been better than Trump -- but not by much. Which is pretty much where I come out on it. I'd be less embarrassed to have her as president than the Donald, but there's no question in my mind I'd still be embarrassed having her represent me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I'd say it just underestimates the antipathy of HRC. I personally couldn't consider her because of her record and conduct on multiple levels; I have a cousin who is a liberal, and voted for her as the best option, but definitely did so holding her nose and thinks she would have been better than Trump -- but not by much. Which is pretty much where I come out on it. I'd be less embarrassed to have her as president than the Donald, but there's no question in my mind I'd still be embarrassed having her represent me.

I agree with this, but at least she would make an effort to act in a way that represents the importance of the office. Trump makes a mockery of it quite literally on a daily basis. Then throw in a healthy dose of racism, xenophobia, and narcissism, plus grossly violating the first amendment and I can't envision us being worse off. That doesn't even factor in policy.

[larrymcg421]

"I knew he was a racist, but there were other issues that were more important to me."

"I didn't care that he was a racist."

"I liked that he was a racist."

What's the real difference? All three put a racist in charge. If anything, the top quote bothers me the most. I have little hope in reaching racists, but if racism is no longer a disqualifying factor for a candidate, that's far more worrisome.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What's the real difference? All three put a racist in charge. If anything, the top quote bothers me the most. I have little hope in reaching racists, but if racism is no longer a disqualifying factor for a candidate, that's far more worrisome.

Indeed. I can't understand the excusing of racism. I mean in the past people would say "Well that's not racism because..." and sometimes it'd be BS and sometimes it may make some sense, but at least folks would try to say it's not racism. Now, people are like, well they may be a racist, but... which is frightening.

[JPhillips]

I recently read about a study that showed Trump voters generally don't like him in spite of him being an asshole, they like him because he's an asshole. As long as he's punching them, everything else can be excused.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I'd say it just underestimates the antipathy of HRC. I personally couldn't consider her because of her record and conduct on multiple levels; I have a cousin who is a liberal, and voted for her as the best option, but definitely did so holding her nose and thinks she would have been better than Trump -- but not by much. Which is pretty much where I come out on it. I'd be less embarrassed to have her as president than the Donald, but there's no question in my mind I'd still be embarrassed having her represent me.

I think a bigger question begs, how the fuck did we wind up with these two as our choices?

I don't ever vote straight party line (November may be the first exception to this) because I look for those closer to center. I am not a fan of the "protest" vote, but I had no choice but to go third party in 2016, because at the end of the day I have to have some belief in my choice beyond the lesser of two evils.

I could have lived with voting for HRC, Trump, never! But as that night played out I kept going back to my thoughts above. How are these two our choices?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I recently read about a study that showed Trump voters generally don't like him in spite of him being an asshole, they like him because he's an asshole. As long as he's punching them, everything else can be excused.

I saw this exact sentiment on a FB post defending Trump for his treatment of McCain. Basically saying "Yeah he is a loud mouthed asshole, but I am too"

So great, you are both fucking jerks, but you don't have the future of the country in your hands, SMH.

[Edward64]

I'm reading a lot of negativity from Dem supporters on HRC here and I don't get it. I voted for her then and would again any day over Trump.

That's not to say I don't agree with Trump on some issues but overall HRC would have been a much better president IMO. The ideal situation would have been HRC in the presidency and a GOP Congress.