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Old 06-23-2003, 09:41 PM   #1151
bbor
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Hmmm....4 mil eh?...he'll prolly get it.....i still think Drury could be a regular 30-35 goal scorer..the guy has serious moves.

Hatcher..out of Dallas???.....cool...it should drive the last nail into Quinns coffin if he can't sign Hatcher
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Old 06-24-2003, 05:11 AM   #1152
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The summer remains bizzarre and interesting for the beloved Wings.

The Fedorov free agent saga took another little twist when he smashed his car, a ferrari I think, the other day. The accident, he hit a tree, no one was hurt, was in HB's very own hometown. Quite an honor... It looks like Feds will go. I am not 100% on this, but the man turned down $10 million a year (twice!). I reckon he wants to get out from under Yzerman's shadow. Too bad that he just can't wait a year when Yzerman retires and it can be Fedorov's team. If he goes the Wings will look at spending their dough on some combination of Hatcher, Marchant, and Prospal.

There is still no movement on the McCarty or Larionov fronts either. Mac wants $3 million and the Wings are offering around $2-$2.3 million. I think $3 million is too much for Mac. I love the guy. He's provided three of the greatest moments in Red Wings history (the pummeling of Claude Lemieux, the overtime goal in that game, and the Cup winning goal in Game 4 of the Stanley Cup finals), but he's been hurt a lot, never really found a scoring touch, and isn't all that physical at times. I think he will try the Martin LaPointe route and seek his fortunes elsewhere.

The newest saga we have to entertain ourselves with is the potential return of Hasek. The last two days, following a TSN report, has been a buzz about Hasek returning to the NHL. The buzz has been to such an extent that I decided to pick Hasek up off of waivers in my ESPN fantasy Keeper league (my team sucks). If Hasek does come back, look for the Wings to try and trade Joseph. This will be beneficial in two ways. First, Wings fans never warmed up to Joseph and they love Hasek. Second, the Wings will dump Joseph's contract (3 more years), while Hasek's will expire at the end of this year. As for potential trading partners, I guess Philly or the Rangers. If the Wings can't move Joseph, they will be in a bind. They wont be able to carry $17 million worth of aging goalie on their roster.
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Old 06-24-2003, 06:32 AM   #1153
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The thing is, where is Fedorov going to get that kind of money? I've heard he wants to play in California but neither L.A. or Anaheim is interested. Dallas is slashing payroll, Colorado doesn't need another center, and New York wants to deal one of its high-priced players also.

I think any unrestricted free agent (and more than usual restricted free agents this year who might not be qualified) looking to cash in one last time are going to be in for a big surprise.
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Old 06-24-2003, 07:59 AM   #1154
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I doubt Joseph will wavie his no trade clause. The only exception might be to go to the Aves.
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Old 06-24-2003, 08:31 AM   #1155
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He might waive it to go elsewhere. I don't think he thoroughly enjoyed his season in Detroit. Granted he came to Detroit to get a Cup, but things change. Maybe he'll be willing to go to the Rangers. Or Philly if possible. It would be a delicate situation, I agree.
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Old 06-24-2003, 09:23 AM   #1156
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Good luck dumping that salary. Cujo is a Wing for a while, I think.
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Old 06-24-2003, 10:44 AM   #1157
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Quote:
Originally posted by sachmo71
Good luck dumping that salary. Cujo is a Wing for a while, I think.

Aww, come on, Sach. It's not like he's Pierre Turgeon or something!
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Old 06-24-2003, 10:48 AM   #1158
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No, but he's no Patrick Roy, either. I think you will more likely see people trying to get the rights to Hasek and sign him to a one year than try to take on the enigmatic, and expensive, Joseph.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:01 AM   #1159
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I agree. Hasek is much more attractive because of his contract situation. Even though he's two years older than CuJo and coming off a year's hiatus.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:24 AM   #1160
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I think the one way the Wings will be able to move CuJo is if they take on a large salary in return. If the Wings don't re-sign Fedorov, then they could, potentailly, trade CuJo in ex-change for a highly paid forward, like LeClair or... (ugh) Lindros. He's pals with Stevie Y.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:26 AM   #1161
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Hasek goes to Detroit

Cujo(who has apparently said already he would waive his no trade to go to the Rangers) goes to the Rangers for..??...LIndross perhaps??

Hackett is in serious talks with Philly right now.

So that leaves Dunham....could he go to the Avs?
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:51 AM   #1162
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If Hacket bolts for Philly who does that leave Boston with? Or did Boston just make a deal for a goalie? Vancouver could possibly be in the market as well. I reckon they'll stick with Cloutier, but after his play-off performance they may be searching.

Colorado will need to do something to shore up their goaltending.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:52 AM   #1163
sachmo71
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I think Dunham would be great for the Avs. I think he's proven he's not a one year wonder, but he doesn't get much press. I think he would turn a few heads in Colorado. I think he would be a better fit than Hackett.

But I thought the Avs still wanted to see if they can pry Burke away from Phoenix?
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:09 PM   #1164
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Bruins may be stuck with Raycroft and Shields...

I don't think they will shill out for Hackett...tight purse strings and all eh

They have all their money tied up in lapointe
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:21 PM   #1165
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It will be interesting to see what Colorado does after July 1. A lot depends on whether Forsberg stays. They have the $9 million they saved with Roy's retirement. That's a lot of money that has to burning a whole in Lacroix's pocket and there are quite a few holes to fill, mainly in net and along the blueline (with the imminent departure of DeVries and Marchment as well (I think)), but if Forsberg leaves than the forward corps will have to be addressed.

Then again, Lacroix's long-standing anti-big free agent policy is still entact. That leaves trades. Not sure what the Avs have left in the tank to trade. They have shipped many of their prospects around already. I am sure they have one or two more, but do they have enough to fill their holes?
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:46 PM   #1166
bbor
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Why let Devries go if they have so much $$?

Perhaps they want Hatcher?
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Old 06-24-2003, 07:19 PM   #1167
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If you're one of the big spending teams that doesn't care about 1st rounders, why not give a huge offer sheet to Giguere and force Anaheim to match? I think he was making $950k last year so see if Anaheim is willing to match a $4m, $5m, $6m three year deal.
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Old 06-24-2003, 07:41 PM   #1168
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Probably because they know Anaheim will match. But Anaheim will take the full time before announcing that they are matching, just to punish the team that signed Jiggy to the contract. Meanwhile, other goalies out there will be picked up relatively quickly in free agency, more liklely than not, while that team is sitting there waiting for the Ducks to "decide."

Restricted free agency is so stupid in hockey.

CR
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Old 06-24-2003, 10:38 PM   #1169
Karim
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CR, have you heard any numbers being thrown around for Giguere? And does anyone in Anaheim have a problem with qualifying Kariya at $10 million with the pending lockout?

I expect a complete overhaul of free agency in a couple years...
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Old 06-25-2003, 12:39 AM   #1170
bbor
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I could see Jiggy signing for 3 years 12 mil

I think that is pretty reasonable for him.I'm sure the Ducks could fit that in their budget.
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Old 06-25-2003, 12:46 AM   #1171
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I don't doubt the Ducks will do whatever it takes to sign both Kariya and Jiggy. Basically, that's the team right there. Kariya is the Steve Yzerman of Anaheim (Mr. Mighty Duck), and the Ducks have always maintained they would do whatever it takes to keep him happy. He has also said he wants nothing more than to drink champagne from the Cup in a Ducks uniform.

And with Jiggy coming off of thgis astounding playoffs, I think it's safe to say that whatever he wants, he'll get without too much hassle.

Both players are young enough that you could pay them market value and even in extended deals with little risk, because no one in the organization doubts that they need these two players no matter what, regardless of what happens with a lockout next year.

That said, other bit parts, like Olausson, Thomas, and the rarely used Titov are obvious locks to go to free agency. The Ducks will probably make very little effort to keep them.

Thomas, of course, could very well retire (as a matter of fact, so could Olausson). With some young winger stars on their way up in Chistov and Lupul, Thomas becomes unnecessary. And the acquisition of Ozolinsh and blossoming of Havelid have made Olausson slightly unnecessary as a blue line offensive player (although they still aren't really that strong offensively on the blue line).

I have heard no indications whatsoever that the Ducks plan to do anything other than offer Kariya and Jiggy what they deserve. I continue to hear they will look into bringing back Selanne (another reason not to bring back Thomas).

Chief Rum
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Old 06-25-2003, 08:43 AM   #1172
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I'm not entirely sold on Giguere yet. Montreal paid through the nose to keep Theodore after one good season, and that deal isn't looking so good right now. If I was the Ducks GM I'd be mentioning that to Jiggy's agent every time I met him.
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Old 06-25-2003, 09:07 AM   #1173
sachmo71
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If they enforce the new pad measurements, Jiggy will become human again.




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Old 06-25-2003, 09:15 AM   #1174
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fidatelo
I'm not entirely sold on Giguere yet. Montreal paid through the nose to keep Theodore after one good season, and that deal isn't looking so good right now. If I was the Ducks GM I'd be mentioning that to Jiggy's agent every time I met him.

In light of recent developments (Theodore's dad the loan-shark and Jose's paling around with Hells Angels), I think the deal was on Pierre Boivin and the Montreal Canadiens just couldn't refuse...
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Old 06-25-2003, 09:54 AM   #1175
sachmo71
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An interesting quote from Stars President Jim Lites from the radio yesterday...

Quote:

"We won the Stanley Cup in 1999 with a payroll of $39 million. Our payroll last year [was about] $65 million. So understand we are doing everything we can to keep the team together and to do whatever we can to be competitive. Tom [Hicks, Stars owner] has always been that way. This issue isn't about what we spend next year. The issue becomes if we do Hatcher's contract will fans come to watch a team be not competitive in 2006? That's what we have to avoid. I'm sorry. I think Mr. Jones [Jerry, Dallas Cowboys owner], who I think has been a wonderful owner and would do anything he could to be more competitive, has now been constrained by a system that's in place that makes his team non-competitive because of his loyalty to three players. We don't want to be in that position. Hockey is the ultimate team game. You've got to be able to put 20 competitive players on the ice or you can't win consistently at the level our fans are used to. We think it is better to remain at least somewhat flexible and see what we can do. It's not about this year's payroll. It's about what it does it do to you long-term. The issue isn't how much, but how long."



He makes a pretty good point here. It kind of gives me a new view of things in regards to losing Hatcher. If they are determined to stay at last years salary level, then it's better that Hatcher moves on than Guerin. Of course, if someone had wanted Turgeon, this wouldn't be an issue, but...
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:09 AM   #1176
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fidatelo
I'm not entirely sold on Giguere yet. Montreal paid through the nose to keep Theodore after one good season, and that deal isn't looking so good right now. If I was the Ducks GM I'd be mentioning that to Jiggy's agent every time I met him.

Check the numbers, Fidatelo. He's no one year wonder. His performance last season was such that I started this season pointing out to everyone who would listen that they should keep an eye on him.

Of course, no one listened at all until we swept the Wings in the playoffs...

CR
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:19 AM   #1177
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Sach...I would keep Hatcher...he has MUCH more value than Guerin.If you sign Hatcher to a say...3 year 6 mil per season deal...and you find youself not in the play-off race near the trade deadline you WILL be able to find many suitors to take him off your hands....because everyone needs defence in the play-offs....Conversly...players of Guerins ilk are a dime a dozen come the trade deadline.
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:28 AM   #1178
sachmo71
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Quote:
Originally posted by bbor
Sach...I would keep Hatcher...he has MUCH more value than Guerin.If you sign Hatcher to a say...3 year 6 mil per season deal...and you find youself not in the play-off race near the trade deadline you WILL be able to find many suitors to take him off your hands....because everyone needs defence in the play-offs....Conversly...players of Guerins ilk are a dime a dozen come the trade deadline.

That's just not the way they see it. They think that keeping Arnott and Guerin makes up for the loss of Hatcher. I realize that big, smart physical defensemen are hard to come by in this league, but management seems to feel otherwise.

Besides, Hatcher and his agent are thinking $8 million/year for 5 years. If he doesn't get anything close to that, there is a chance he will still sign here. Frankly, having watched Hatcher for years, I can't say he's worth that. I still say $5 million would be my max for him. The only defenseman in the league who is worth that much is Lidstrom, or Leetch and MacInnis a few years ago.
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:31 AM   #1179
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1-on JSG, do you think that Anaheim can afford to just let the guy go either? I think he's real, but even if you don't, letting the Playoff MVP walk is going to piss alot of fans off.

2-on the Stars, it's not so much on how you let go, it's if you have someone you think can step up and fill that spot. Last year was a good decision to let Belfour walk and Turco was ready. Do you think you have people to step in for Hatcher and Guerin? If so, then great, if not, then what you have is a team official trying to put a spin on things to keep people pacified.
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Old 06-25-2003, 12:00 PM   #1180
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It's an interesting argument.

Most people agree that a very good defensemen is more valuable than a very good forward. They are just harder to find and, therefore, harder to replace. One comparison that could be made, it's somewhat analagous, is to look at Shanahan.

Shanahan went from Jersey to St. Louis as part of the Scott Stevens signing. The League felt like that was more or less fair. A big, tough young scoring winger for a big, tough hard-hitting d-man.

Then Keenan traded Shanahan (see desc. above) to Hartford for Pronger, big, young, goofy-looking/skating, but hard-hitting defenseman.

Both cases the deals seem fair, but even though I love Shanny and he was the final piece for the Wings first cup, I would be hard-pressed to think that he was more valuable a player than either Pronger or Stevens.

Same comparison could be made for Hatcher/Guerin. Then again, Cards is right. You have to look to see who you got. Both will not be replaced by any rookie (they are too good), but losing Hatcher leaves the Dallas D with 4 solid players still, while losing Guerin creates quite a whole on the Wing.

No way J.S. Giguere is let go or traded. No. F'n. way.

Heh! Sach called Hatcher "smart." That's funny. Hatcher is so smart! Hatcher is so smart! S.M.R.T.!
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Old 06-25-2003, 12:04 PM   #1181
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Chief, you are right, Jiggy has had 2 good seasons as opposed to Theodore who just had the 1. However I still don't think that is enough of a time period to justify a large contract. Furthermore, the fact that Martin Gerber posted stats even slightly better than Jiggy's makes me think that the Ducks just play really really good defence.

Now, I could be wrong. Jiggy could be all that and a bag of chips, and churn out another half dozen seasons similar to the last two. But I've seen a lot of "up-and-coming" goalies have a couple above-average seasons and then turn into B-level goalies for the rest of their careers (Felix Potvin comes to mind, or how about Jim Carey). I think I'd be leary of spending too much cash on him right now.
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Old 06-25-2003, 12:09 PM   #1182
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Sach....Hatcher may not be worth 8 mil a season...But it is all about supply and demand....Supply in fa is short this season for top notch defencman...Demand MAY be down a bit because of the labour contract.....but if a team needs to go for it this season because of armegeddon(read:NYR...Wings...Leafs...Avs)then they will pay the steep price for Hatcher.

I asked this before and don't remember seeing an answer from anyone...Why are the Avs willing to let Devries walk if he is as solid as everyone says?
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Old 06-25-2003, 12:30 PM   #1183
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That's a good question, bbor. I have no idea. All reports out of Colorado are that DeVries is a "goner." Sounds like a sure-thing. Maybe he's asking for a bit too much and Colorado doesn't think he's worth it. Could be a Darren McCarty/Martin LaPointe type of situation. The Wings acknowledge they are good. Everyone else acknowledges they have value. But the Wings can't come to terms because they think their value is lower than what the player things.

I assume that's what's happening with DeVries. This is compounded by the fact that he's a late bloomer, has never really made the serious coin and he figures, and rightly so, his stock is as high as it's ever gonna be. Why not test the waters?
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Old 06-25-2003, 03:18 PM   #1184
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I actually agree with you there, Fidatelo, Let me see if I can respond point-by-point to what you were saying.

1) Ducks defense-- Actually, yes, it is very good. It's underrated, and on top of that, it's aided by the fact they play a trap type of system (although they are more offensive than that). Carney is an underrated defensman in his own end, and as much as people hate Salei, he is also good in his own end. Vishnevsky is a good hitter with growing skills and talent, and Sauer was one of the best defensive rookies in the league last season. And that doesn't mention solid guys like Havelid or Ozolinsh either (who are more offensive in nature, but aren't bad defensively). But I have always bought that a defense is part team and part goalie. The Ducks' defensive success can't be pinned entirely on the blue line or a good forecheck (which, actually, wasn't that good).

2) Gerber-- I like Gerby. Truth be told, I think he was a bit of a steal. Just another one of those little known European guys you see picked int he middle ropunds of the draft. They can come in and play right away, but they aren't stars (or they aren't expected to be), and they are older 24 or 25 or so. Havelid was picked this way, for instance. Gerber actually is a pretty dam decent goalie. Very functionally sound and steady, and unlike many goalies, he seems to handle the randomness of his starts well. I think the defense aided both goalies, yes, but they had to make their own way as well. And after watching Gerby for a season, I think quite frankly he's just better than a normal backup goalie, and that's why you see some comparable numbers there bteween him and JSG.

3) Allaire-- You also have to remember that the Ducks have had uber-goalkeeping coach Francois Allaire on their staff for three or four years now, and he has been consulting with them for even longer. He was credited with keeping Hebert as good as he was later in his career, despite the fact the man really didn't have great skills. Allaire specializes in French-Canadian goalies--he has coached Roy and Brodeur as well--and he and JSG have a special relationship in that manner. The Ducks wouldn't break up the two, IMO.

4) JSG's playoff run-- Say what you want about the regular season, either this one or last, but what they only provide is a supporting basis for the simple fact that JSG is a good goalie. What JSG provided in these playoffs goes far above and beyond that. Say what you want about getting hot or streaking at the right time, but having watched as many Stanley Cup playoffs as I have in my time, I simply refuse to believe that a goalie can get lucky and/or hot and maintain this long against quality teams like this, and not really have any talent. In fact, I don't think even an average professional starter goalie could do what JSG did in the playoffs. To me, that supposition alone puts him in the upper echelon of netminders.

5) JSG is more than just a goalie-- Remember after Game 2 of the Cup playoffs, when the Ducks were down 2-0 and looking like they were going to get rubbed out quick? It wasn't Kariya, the natural quiet leader who said something. Nor was it a vet like Oates or Thomas. No, it was Jiggy, who challenged his teammates int he media and in the clubhouse to step up their play and get back into the game. And the Ducks responded with two thrilling victories at home to actually make this one a series. He's not just a good goalie. He's a leader. He is one of those goalies now (IMO) that has a persona that imbues his teammates with strength. Just like Brodeur or Roy or Hasek, when you go on the ice and you know that you have Jiggy behind you, you feel more comfortable out there. You can take more chances, because you know he won't let you down. And the other team feels the opposite--they come ont he ice knowing they are going to have to beat Jiggy to get the win. Having often been the guy supporting the team going on the ice against walls like Hasek and Roy, I know how desparate that can feel. Jiggy inspires the same kind of feelings.

6) JSG is a media darling-- Hey, it's true, even though quite frankly I don't care if a Ducks keeper is as charismatic as Dr. Frankenstein's henchman Igor so long as they stop the shots. The media made a big deal about Jiggy's playoff run, and what do you know, the guy handles the media well, smiles easily, comes off as good natured, and he's much closer to Gretzky looks than Ricci looks. The number one reason he'll get a big contract from the Ducks, regardless of actual talent level, is because he's a draw. He's popular. Heck, he even has a fancy nickname already, with an attached theme song. And he's passionate, too. All you have to do is look at the shots of him crying on the ice as the Devils celebrated their Cup win to see that. People like passion (and so do teammates).

7) He IS talented-- Above and beyond the playoff run and his two solid seasons, JSG has always been regarded as very talented. When he was drafted, he was regarded as a top up-and-coming goalkeeper. I forget where the Isles picked him up, but I believe he was a Top 10 pick, was he not? Quite frankly, I have no idea why the Isles and Flames gave up on him so soon--it always takes a little bit for goalies to really get into their skills and grow into their apparent talent. JSG is right about the age that most goalies start to put it together. So it makes sense that he would put together something like this now, given he was supposed to have all this talent. Remember, all the goalie pads in the world wouldn't have saved that incredible shot against Minnesota. JSG stopped that one on pure skill alone, and it was maybe one of the greatest saves I have ever seen in the playoffs.

So, the Ducks would never let him go period. He'll get whatever he wants for money. It's not about talent, although I think he has it in spades, and that he's only going to get better. I'm convinced we have witnessed the beginnings of one of the next great goalies in the NHL, the next generation which will one day replace Brodeur and Belfour as they get older and retire. That said, even if he wasn't all that, he would get the money because Ducks fans would riot if we got rid of him, as was pointed out. He's great in front of the camera, he is inspiring on the ice to teammates and in the lockerroom, his persona is a deterrent to opponents and he's a popular fan draw.

So, yeah, the reasons are numerous why, if JSG is ever going to leave the Ducks, it won't be this year.

Chief Rum
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I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

Last edited by Chief Rum : 06-25-2003 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 06-25-2003, 03:36 PM   #1185
Karim
College Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Calgary
CR makes a good case. Makes me even more sad as a Flames' fan.

It's good that he, amongst others, got out of town before we had a chance to ruin him. Daniel Tzachuk and Rico Fata weren't so lucky...

Murray Baron, Brad May, and Trent Klatt have refused offers given to them by Brian Burke. May becomes an UFA and Burke indicated he may give him another offer following July 1st. The sticking point was term more than dollars for the others.

Klatt, a Minnesota native, would be a good pick-up for the Wild...
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Old 06-25-2003, 03:40 PM   #1186
sachmo71
The boy who cried Trout
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
Chief,

Ozolinsh IS bad on defense.

Love,

Sachmo


Last edited by sachmo71 : 06-25-2003 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 06-25-2003, 03:49 PM   #1187
sterlingice
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
Quote:
Originally posted by Chief Rum
6) JSG is a media darling-- Hey, it's true, even though quite frankly I don't care if a Ducks keeper is as charismatic as Dr. Frankenstein's henchman Igor so long as they stop the shots...

Hey, Wings fans- hear that, Igor's looking for goalie work and you need a goalie. He wants to play for you as long as you pay him enough. How many brains does $5M buy again?

SI
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Old 06-26-2003, 01:51 AM   #1188
Chief Rum
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Where Hip Hop lives
Quote:
Originally posted by sachmo71
Chief,

Ozolinsh IS bad on defense.

Love,

Sachmo


Well, yeah, but at least he hides it in a "I'm a savvy veteran who knows old tricks" kinda way.

My main gist there was to point out that Havelid and Ozolinsh aren't really there for defense.

CR
__________________
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I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.
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Old 06-26-2003, 03:34 AM   #1189
Honolulu_Blue
Hockey Boy
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Quote:
Originally posted by sterlingice
Hey, Wings fans- hear that, Igor's looking for goalie work and you need a goalie. He wants to play for you as long as you pay him enough. How many brains does $5M buy again?

SI

Two $8 million a year goalies are enough thank you.
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Old 06-27-2003, 08:55 AM   #1190
sachmo71
The boy who cried Trout
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
Cap keep Bondra...guess there isn't going to be a fire sale there. Plus a "bump" for this wonderful thread.
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Old 06-27-2003, 08:59 AM   #1191
Honolulu_Blue
Hockey Boy
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Well done, Sach! Well done. I saw that. Bondra makes $4.5 million. I know his production slipped slightly last year, but that's not a bad price (at the moment) for a guy like Petr Bondra. Not bad at all.

Wasn't there some other wild rumor that the Caps offered Jagr for a 9th round pick or something? Ridiculous. That deal would have to be banned by the league.
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Old 06-27-2003, 09:02 AM   #1192
Honolulu_Blue
Hockey Boy
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
I am sure most of you guys have seen this already, but for those who haven't.

This is from sigames.com EHM:FE board, posted by Riz, the main man from Finland in charge of this beauty:


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that the Head Researchers have been picked and most of them have received their guidelines, I'll post the most interesting tidbits of the guidelines for all you guys. So here are the different attributes used in the game database and their descriptions. As you will see, it's a small step forward from the old freeware rosters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. CONTINENTS

Name
The full name of the continent.

Name Three Letter
The three letter abbreviation of the continent.

Name Nationality
The nationality (continentality) name of the continent (e.g. African, European)


2. NATIONS

Name
The full name of the nation.

Name Short
The shorter more commonly used name of the nation.

Name Three Letter
The three-letter name of the nation.

Name Nationality
The nationality name of the nation.

Continent
The continent (in hockey terms) that it belongs to.

Region
The region (in hockey terms) that it belongs to.

First Language
Its main spoken language.

Second Language
Its second spoken language.

Third Language
Its third spoken language.

Capital City
Its capital city or largest city where hockey is played
(e.g. in USA this would be New York, instead of Washington which is the official capital)

State Of Development
Its state of development (developed, developing, or third world).

EU Membership
Whether or not it is a member of the European Union.

National Arena
The arena mainly used by its national team.

Game Importance
Importance of hockey in this country (e.g. Canada = very high, Australia = low). Scale is 1 to 4 (1= high and 4=low)

League Standard
A rating indicating the general standard of its top league on a world scale of 1-20, where 1=the worst competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 20=the best competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Reputation
A rating indicating the reputation of its national team on a world scale of 1-20, where 1=the worst national team anywhere in the world ever, and 20=the best national team anywhere in the world ever.

Foreground Colour 1
The foreground colour of its first colours.

Background Colour 1
The background colour of its first colours.

Trim Colour 1
The trim colour of its first colours.

Foreground Colour 2
The foreground colour of its second colours.

Background Colour 2
The background colour of its second colours.

Trim Colour 2
The trim colour of its second colours.

Foreground Colour 3
The foreground colour of its third colours.

Background Colour 3
The background colour of its third colours.

Trim Colour 3
The trim colour of its third colours.

Actual Region
The nation’s region in a geographical sense

World Ranking Score
Its ranking score. Calculated from the performance in last 2 world championships and last Olympics. Positions give points as follows:

National Team position in 2003 World Championships
Its national team’s position in above WC tournament.

National Team position in 2002 World Championships
Its national team’s position in above WC tournament.

National Team position in 2001 World Championships
Its national team’s position in above WC tournament.

National Team position in 2003 World Junior Championships
Its junior national team’s (U-20) position in above WJC tournament.

National Team position in 2002 World Junior Championships
Its junior national team’s (U-20) position in above WJC tournament.

National Team position in 2001 World Junior Championships
Its junior national team’s (U-20) position in above WJC tournament.

Rivals 1
Its main rival national teams.

Rivals 2
Its main rival national teams.

Rivals 3
Its main rival national teams.


3. CITIES & TOWNS

Name
The full name of the city or town.

Nation
The nation that it is located in.

Latitude
The latitude location in decimal (please do not use this field). Latitudes to the north are entered as positive and to the south as negative (-) values.

Longitude
The longitude location in decimal (please do not use this field). Longitudes to the north are entered as positive and to the south as negative (-) values.

Attraction
A rating indicating how attractive the city or town is to live in on a national scale of 1-20, where 1=the worst city or town to live in anywhere in the nation ever, and 20=the best city or town to live in anywhere in the nation ever.


4. ARENAS (ICEHALLS)

Name
The full name of the arena.

City or Town
The city or town that it is located in.

Capacity
Its total capacity.

Seating Capacity
Its seating capacity.

Expansion Capacity
The number of seats by which it could be expanded in the future.

Nearby Arena
An arena located physical close to this arena.

Rink size
Does the arena have an NHL sized or European sized rink.

Ice Condition
The quality of ice at the arena.


5. CLUBS

Name
The full name of the club.

Name Short
The shorter more commonly used name of the club.

Abbreviation
The three letter abbreviation associated with the team.

Nick Name
The nick name of the team (if any).

Nation
Nation where the team is located.

Division
The league it plays in.

Last Division
The league it played in last season if different from the current league.

Last Position
The last league position.

Other Division
The other division should state the more detailed division the club plays in. (Example: LEAGUE Northeast Division)

Professional Status
Its professional status (professional, semi-professional, or amateur).

Player Budget
The approximate amount of money ($) the team has reserved for player salaries in the coming season.

Cash
The approximate amount of cash ($) the team currently has in the bank. This can be a minus number if the club is in the red.

PLC
Is the club a public limited company.

Arena
Its home arena.

Reserve Arena
Possible reserve arena (in case a game has to be relocated).

Home Game Day
The day of the week it plays its home games, if the league has only one game a week and it different from the normal game day.

Attendance
Its average expected home attendance in its current situation.

Min Attendance
Its average expected home attendance in its worst foreseeable situation.

Max Attendance
Its average expected home attendance in its best foreseeable situation.

Training
A rating indicating the standard of the club’s training facilities on a world scale of 1-20, where 1=the worst training facilities in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 20=the best training facilities in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever. Note: this applies to facilities only and does not include the affect of staff !

Reputation
A rating indicating the reputation of its team on a world scale of 1-20, where 1=the worst team in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 20=the best club team in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Foreground Colour 1
The foreground colour (text) of its first colours.

Background Colour 1
The background colour of its first colours.

Trim Colour 1
The trim colour of its first colours.

Foreground Colour 2
The foreground colour (text) of its second colours.

Background Colour 2
The background colour of its second colours.

Trim Colour 2
The trim colour of its second colours.

Foreground Colour 3
The foreground colour (text) of its third colours.

Background Colour 3
The background colour of its third colours.

Trim Colour 3
The trim colour of its third colours.

Fan Support
How loyal and supportive are the fans of the team. 1= fans care very little for the team, 20= die hard fans across the board.

Retired Numbers
Any jersey numbers the team has retired and the player names connected to those numbers.

Favourite Staff 1
Its fans’ favourite staff (playing or non-playing) anywhere in the world who are still in hockey.

Favourite Staff 2
Its fans’ favourite staff (playing or non-playing) anywhere in the world who are still in hockey.

Favourite Staff 3
Its fans’ favourite staff (playing or non-playing) anywhere in the world who are still in hockey.

Disliked Staff 1
Its fans’ least favourite staff (playing or non-playing) anywhere in the world who are still in hockey.

Disliked Staff 2
Its fans’ least favourite staff (playing or non-playing) anywhere in the world who are still in hockey.

Disliked Staff 3
Its fans’ least favourite staff (playing or non-playing) anywhere in the world who are still in hockey.

Rivals 1
Its main rival teams.

Rivals 2
Its main rival teams.

Rivals 3
Its main rival teams.



6. AFFILIATIONS

General Information

Affiliation Upper Club
The higher ranking club in the affiliation.

Affiliation Lower Club
The lower ranking club in the affiliation.

Affiliation Type
The type of affiliation (farm/junior).



7. STAFF (ALL)

General Information

First Name
The person’s first name.

Second Name
The person’s second name.

Common Name
Possibly nick name used by fellow players.

Date of Birth
His date of birth. This should be entered in dd/mm/yyyy format (e.g. 29/07/1998). If you do not know the date of birth please leave blank

Year of Birth (if date unavailable)
His year of birth if the exact date of birth is not known. Format is YYYY (e.g. 1979)

Birth town
The city/town he was born in. If you do not know the town of birth, please leave blank.

Birth state / province
In which state (USA) or province (CAN) he was born in. Only for North American players.

Nation
The nation he represents or wants to represent if eligible.

Second Nation
His second nation, if he is of dual-nationality.

Nation Contracted
The nation whose national team he is contracted to work for in a non-playing role.

Job for Nation
His job for the national team (for example manager or coach).

Date joined Nation
The date (month and year is sufficient) he started work for the national team

Contract Expires Nation
The date his contract comes to an end for the national team (non-playing staff only). This should be entered in dd/mm/yyyy format (e.g. 29/07/2003). If you do not know the exact date put the first of the month (e.g. 01/07/2003)

International Apps
The number of international games he has played for the national team.

International Goals
The number of international goals he has scored for the national team.

International Assists
The number of international assists for the national team.

Stanley Cups
The number of Stanley Cups he has won in the NHL

Club Contracted
The club he is contracted to work for. This should be the club that the player has a valid contract with.

Club Playing
The club he is playing for at the moment.

Job for Club
His job for the club (for example coach or player).

Date joined Club
The date (month and year is sufficient) he started work for the club.

Contract expires club
The date his contract comes to an end for the club. This should be entered in dd/mm/yyyy format (e.g. 29/07/2003). If you do not know the exact date put the first of the month (e.g. 01/07/2003)

Estimated wage ($)
His estimated annual wage in US dollars (e.g. 100000)

First NHL contract
Date when he signed his first NHL contract

NHL rights
Which NHL team holds his NHL rights.

CHL rights
Which CHL team holds his CHL rights.


Mental Characteristics

The following ratings indicate the person’s mental characteristics (for both players and non-players) and are based on a scale from 1-20, where 1 means the lowest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 20 means the highest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Adaptability
How well he adapts to living in a country which isn’t his own.

Ambition
How much ambition he has to win awards.

Determination
How much determination he has to succeed in his career.

Loyalty
How loyal he is to his employer.

Pressure
How well he is able to handle pressure.

Professionalism
How professional his conduct is.

Sportsmanship
How sporting his conduct is

Temperament
How well he keeps his temper.

Job Type

Classification
His job type. Choose from the following options:
- Non-Player – member of the non-playing staff (e.g. general manager, coach, chairman)
- Player – member of the playing staff
- Player and Non-Player – member of both the playing and non-playing staff (e.g. player-coach)
Please note: the default for this is “player” so make sure to change it if he is a non-player or both.

Draft information (NHL & CHL )

These are the same for both leagues NHL and CHL ( WHL, OHL, QMJHL). For CHL draft information on European players, fill in details from the CHL Import Draft. For North American players, use the entry draft information.

Draft Status
Is he too young to be drafted, eligible for draft, has he been drafted already or not drafted ever.

Draft Year
The year in which he was drafted.

Draft Round
The round he was drafted in.

Draft Overall
His overall draft position in the draft. For example 124th player taken in the draft.

Draft Team
The team that drafted him. NOTE: Former NHL teams are available as extinct teams to be filled here.

Playing History

Playing History
The season, team, league and statistics for playing history, if he was ever a player. Please enter possible playoff statistics in their own rows with the playoff (PO) box ticked.


Likes and Dislikes

Favourite Teams
His favourite teams. There are three possible entries here

Disliked Teams
His least favourite teams. There are three possible entries here

Favourite Staff
His favourite staff anywhere in the world who are still in hockey. There are three possible entries here

Disliked Staff
His least favourite staff anywhere in the world who are still in hockey. There are three possible entries here



7.1. STAFF (NON-PLAYING)

Non-Playing Ability

The following ratings indicate his non-playing ability and are based on a world scale of 1-200, where 1 means the worst in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 200 means the best in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Current Ability
How good he currently is.

Potential Ability
How good he could become in the future. This value must never be below his Current Ability. If the Staff is past his
peak, the Potential Ability can still reflect how good he used to be at his best.

Home Reputation
How good he is reputed to be by people in his home country.

Current Reputation
How good he is considered to be in the country in which he works.

World Reputation
How good he is reputed to be by people on a worldwide basis.


Non-Playing Characteristics

The following ratings indicate his non-playing characteristics and are based on a world scale of 1-20, where 1 means the lowest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 20 means the highest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Attacking
Extent to which he likes to use an attacking style of play (offensive minded hockey).

*Business
How good he is at the business side of running a club.

Coaching defensemen
How good he is at coaching defensemen.

Coaching forwards
How good he is at coaching forwards.

Coaching goaltenders
How good he is at coaching goaltenders.

Coaching Technique
Extent to which he is a technical coach rather than a fitness coach.

Directness
Extent to which he likes to use a direct style of dump and chase over a more passing style.

Discipline
How severely he punishes players who misbehave.

Free Roles
Extent to which he allows players to play in a free offensive role (meaning little or no defensive responsibilities).

**Interference
Extent to which he interferes in the manager’s tasks.

Judgement
How well he judges how good staff are.

Judging Potential
How well he judges how good staff could become.

Line Matching
How well he applies line matching (and thus also how often).

Man Management
How well he psychologically handles those below him.

Motivating
How good he is at motivating players.

*Patience
How much patience he has in managers to succeed.

PenaltyKill
How well does he handle penalty kill situations.

Physical
How much does he like to use physical players.

Physiotherapy
How good he is at physiotherapy.

PowerPlay
How well does he handle powerplay situations.

*Resources
Extent of financial resources he is prepared to put into the club.

Tactics
Extent of his tactical hockey knowledge.

Youngsters
How well he works with young players.

* these ratings refer to if he were chairman.
** this rating refers to if he were chairman interfering with a manager or a manager interfering with a head coach.


Model Players

The following entries indicate players anywhere in the world who are still playing, whose characteristics he likes.

Goaltender
A goaltender whose characteristics he likes.

Left Defenseman
A left sided defenseman whose characteristics he likes.

Right Defenseman
A right sided defenseman whose characteristics he likes.

Left Wing
A left wing whose characteristics he likes.

Right Wing
A right wing whose characteristics he likes.

Center
A center whose characteristics he likes.



7.2 STAFF (PLAYING)

Squad number
His jersey number in his current team.

Favourite Number
His usual favourite number. NOTE: Fill this in even if the player is currently playing with his favourite number.

Playing Ability

The following ratings indicate his playing ability and are based on a scale from 1-200, where 1 means the worst in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 200 means the best in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Important: Remember, if you do not know how good a player is in any department, leave that department blank.

Current Ability
How good he currently is.

The best players in the world should have about 180-190. The very best current players such as Joe Sakic, Jaromir Jagr and Peter Forsberg should have about 195. Only Wayne Gretzky & Mario Lemieux would have 200
Important: See table about player’s current ability in Appendix 2 towards the end of this document

Potential Ability
How good he could become in the future. This value must never be below his Current Ability.

Same scale as current ability

Home Reputation
How good he is considered to be in his home country.

This will not always be as high as his ability – especially if he is inconsistent or unproven.
It will also be the same as current if the player is at a club in his own country….

Current Reputation
How good he is considered to be in the country in which he plays.

This will not always be as high as his ability – especially if he is inconsistent or unproven

World Reputation
How good he is considered to be on a worldwide basis.

This will not always be as high as his ability – especially if he is inconsistent or unproven
For most players, world reputation will be below 100 – only well known players & established NHL’ers or internationals will be over 100.


Preferred Playing Positions

The following ratings indicate his preferred playing positions and are based on a scale from 1-20, where 1 means he is unhappy playing in that position, and 20 means he is happy playing in that position.

Goaltender
How much he prefers to play as a goaltender.

Left Defenseman
How much he prefers to play as a left defenseman.

Right Defenseman
How much he prefers to play as a right defenseman.

Left Wing
How much he prefers to play as a left wing.

Right Wing
How much he prefers to play as a right wing.

Center
How much he prefers to play as a center.

Defensive Role
How much he prefers to play in a defensive role.

Offensive Role
How much he prefers to play in an offensive role.


Other player details

Shoots/Catches
Which side does he shoot from (skater) or which hand is his glove hand (goalie).

Height/Weight
Please fill in either the metric units or the US units.


Playing Characteristics

The following ratings indicate his playing characteristics and are based on a scale from 1-20, where 1 means the lowest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 20 means the highest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Remember, if you give someone 20 for passing, they are up there with the best passers in the WORLD and NOT just the league that they play in.

Some playing characteristics are used for both goalies and skaters and are marked with (ALL). Goalie specific characteristics are marked with (GK) and should be left empty for skaters. Skater specific characteristics (SK) should be left empty for goalies.

Acceleration (ALL)
How quickly he can reach full speed from a stand still.

Aggression (ALL)
How aggressive he is.

Agility (ALL)
How agile he is. Especially important for goaltenders making saves down low.

Agitation (ALL)
How good he is at playing mind games with the opponent and getting them off their game and into taking penalties.

Anticipation (ALL)
How well he anticipates what is about to happen on the field.

Balance (ALL)
How well he keeps his balance on his skates.

Blocker (GK)
How good he is at stopping shots with his blocker .

Bravery (ALL)
How brave he is when playing.

Checking (SK)
How good he is at shadowing the opponents and preventing them from finishing offensive plays.

Consistency (ALL)
How consistently he performs from match to match. If you set this to 5 for example, he will only perform to his Current Ability 25% of the time, if 20 that would be 100% !

Decisions (SK)
How good he is at making the right decision as to what to do with the puck.

Deflections (SK)
How good he is at deflecting long range shots to the back of the net.

Deking (SK)
How good he is at deking opponents using body moves rather than stickhandling.

Dirtiness (ALL)
How dirty he is.

Faceoffs (SK)
How good he is at taking faceoffs.

Fighting (ALL)
How good he is at using his fists in a fight.

Flair (ALL)
How likely he is to try the unexpected and show off.

Glove (GK)
How good he is at catching pucks with his glove.

Hitting (SK)
How good he is at delivering bodychecks in the rink.

Important Games (ALL)
How well he performs in important games, such as the playoffs or games between rivals.

Injury Proneness (ALL)
How likely he is to get injured.

Leadership (ALL)
How well he leads and inspires his team mates (aka influence).

Movement (SK)
How good he is at moving into good offensive positions (off the puck).

Natural Fitness (ALL)
How good is his natural fitness level.

One-on-ones (GK)
How good he is at saving in one-on-one situations. Please note: this is not for skaters – use deking or stickhandling to describe their ability to finish breakaways from in-close.

Pace (ALL)
How fast he can skate when at top speed.

Passing (ALL)
How accurately he can pass the puck. Also reflects how easy it is to receive his passes.

Pass Tendency (SK)
How likely he is to overpass or play the passing option instead of shooting. For players who tend to shoot a lot instead of passing, set a low rating here.

Pokecheck (ALL)
How good he is at poking the puck away from the opponent by using his stick.

Positioning (ALL)
How good he is at keeping a good defensive position. For goalies this means covering angles.

Rebounds (GK)
How good he is at controlling his rebounds.

Recovery (GK)
How fast he is at recovering to normal position from making a save.

Reflexes (GK)
How good he is at making reflex saves.

Slapshot (SK)
How good is his slapshot, accuracy and power comibined.

Stamina (ALL)
How long he is able to play before tiring.

Stickhandling (ALL)
How good is he at handling the puck with his stick.

Strength (ALL)
How physically strong he is.

Teamwork (ALL)
How good he is at playing for the team rather than for himself.

Versatility (SK)
How easily he adapts to playing in unfamiliar positions.

Vision (SK)
How good he is at recognising players in good positions to pass to (creativity).

Work Rate (ALL)
How hard he works in a game.

Wristshot (SK)
How good is his wristshot, accuracy and power comibined.

Other

Similar Player
A player anywhere in the world who is still playing, who is similar to him.

Notes
Any information you feel is relevant or useful for this player. Not used in the game in any way.



8. NATION COMPETITIONS

Name
The full name of the competition.

Name (short)
The shorter more commonly used name of the competition.

Name (three letter)
The three-letter abbreviated name of the competition.

Continent
The continent whose clubs compete in it.

Nation
The nation whose clubs compete in it.

Colours
Its foreground (text), background and trim colours which best represent it.

Reputation
A rating indicating its reputation on a world scale of 1-20, where 1=a friendly match and 20=the World Cup.

Upper Age Limit
If the competition is for juniors, its general upper age limit..

History
The year, hosts (where relevant), winners, runners-up and third placed (where relevant) its history.



9. CLUB COMPETITIONS

Name
The full name of the competition.

Name (short)
The shorter more commonly used name of the competition.

Name (three letter)
The three-letter abbreviated name of the competition.

Continent
The continent whose clubs compete in it.

Nation
The nation whose clubs compete in it.

Colours
Its foreground (text), background and trim colours which best represent it.

Reputation
A rating indicating its reputation on a world scale of 1-20, where 1=a friendly match and 20=the Champions League.

Upper Age Limit
If the competition is for juniors, its general upper age limit..

History
The year., winners, runners-up and third placed (where relevant) in its history.



10. STAFF COMPETITIONS (AWARDS)

Name
The full name of the award.

Name (short)
The shorter more commonly used name of the award.

Continent
The continent where the award takes place.

Nation
The nation where the award takes place

Colours
Its foreground (text), background and trim colours which best represent it (please come up with some if needed).

Reputation
A rating indicating its reputation on a world scale of 1-20, where 1=Conference Player of the Year and 20=World Footballer of the Year

History
The year., winners, and runners-up and third placed for every award year in its history.




11. OFFICIALS (On-ice officials)

General Information

First Name
The first name of the official.

Second Name
The second name of the official.

Date of Birth
His date of birth.

Year of Birth (if date unavailable)
His year of birth.

Nation Represents
The nation he represents.

City or Town
The city or town he lives in or is from.

Ability

The following ratings indicate his ability and are based on a world scale from 1-200, where 1 means the worst in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 200 means the best in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Current Ability
How good he currently is.

Potential Ability
How good he could become in the future.

Reputation
How good he is reputed to be on a worldwide basis. This will determine which divisions in your country the referee referees in.

Characteristics

The following ratings indicate his characteristics and are based on a world scale from 1-20, where 1 means the lowest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever, and 20 means the highest in a competitive league anywhere in the world ever.

Allowing Interference
How much does he allow interference (hooking, holding, grabbing etc.). Low values for strict referees.

Allowing Roughness
How well he allows rough play and avoids unnecessary stoppages.

Discipline
How severely he punishes players who behave unsportsmanlike.

Important Games
How well he performs in important games.

Pressure
How well he is able to handle pressure and avoid being intimidated.

Refereeing
How good he is at making referee decisions.

Skating Line
How good he is at staying out of the players’ way.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).
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Old 06-27-2003, 09:49 AM   #1193
sachmo71
The boy who cried Trout
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: TX
Cat's out of the bag now! Are you ready, Chief?
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Old 06-27-2003, 10:14 AM   #1194
Cards4ever
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Eagan, MN
Ah, progress!
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Cardinal Baseball & Gopher Hockey, what else do you need?
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Old 06-27-2003, 11:56 AM   #1195
Karim
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Location: Calgary
I could hardly contain my excitement while I was reading that list over at SI.

Still trying to minimize my expectations for a first release...
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Old 06-27-2003, 12:37 PM   #1196
Karim
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Calgary
Some stories for today:

First player drafted from the NHL's Diversity Program:
http://www.nhl.com/columns/picarello/coleman062503.html

Forsberg signs for $11 million:
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...478113,00.html

Up-to-date 2003 Unrestricted Free Agent list:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature.asp?fid=6806

Canucks to bump payroll by $4-$9 million:
http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vanc...1-9ACC99E28718

Al Strachan of the Toronto SUN has lost his post on the executive committee of the Professional Hockey Writers Association after referring to a Devils PR official as Obergruppenfuhrer:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/
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Old 06-27-2003, 12:56 PM   #1197
bbor
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: toronto
Hrmmmm.....Gonne be a LONGGGGG summer til EHM is out

Leafs are expected to announce at a press conference today that Quinn is stepping down as GM....but he still has a right (in his contract) to pick his succesor(the inmates running the asylum?)If he does'nt like who the Leafs choose as his succesor he can claim breech of contract and walk away a few million richer(please,pleaseplease)

Ken Dryden is expected to take lessor role in the organization...and Bill Watters...who took the brunt of the shit for Quinn when Quinn hid in Vancouver all last offseason is not getting his contract renewed.Too bad for Watters..He is the only Leaf managment guy that will come on the sports radio show here and talk...Quinn just goes and hides behind his cigars...and Dryden...well...Toronto radio stations don't want Dryden on the radio because he talks like the former lawyer that he is
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Pumpy Tudors

Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.
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Old 06-27-2003, 12:58 PM   #1198
klayman
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Location: Edmonton
Dyrden gives new meaning to the term "talk radio"
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Old 06-27-2003, 01:06 PM   #1199
bbor
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: toronto
Wow..Aparently Quinn is giving up his right to pick his own succesor as Gm......In exchange fro him keeping his GM/Coach salary.
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Pumpy Tudors

Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.
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Old 06-27-2003, 01:45 PM   #1200
sachmo71
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Location: TX
Interesting...guess Quinn is on his last legs?
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