2009 NCAA Tournament Thread

[Balldog]

I don't Izzo would leave MSU unless it was for the NBA or AD at MSU.

The biggest thing with Donovan seems to be consistency, would Kentucky settle for a couple of down years that he seems to have mixed in with a couple of great years?

I think Calipari is the best bet out of those three, he recruits well enough that they would be back on top by year 2.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If Donovan goes, that kills Bama's chances of getting VCU's Anthony Grant.

Hence the reason that 'Bama only gave Grant 5 days to decide. Everyone knew that the Kentucky firing was coming for some time now. 'Bama wants to make sure that he either commits or not. They don't want to get dragged into anything too drawn out while seeing other possible candidates hired by other programs in the meanwhile.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Just for perspective, Kansas had 6 4-star and 1 5-star recruit come in between 2007 and 2008 (making their run this year a little more plausible). In 2008 and 2009, Missouri has had 0 4 or 5 star recruits. This makes another run in 2009-10 much less likely.

Mizzou has no 4 or 5 star players in their program right now, but they won 30 games. Anderson looks for athleticism, regardless of the recruits ranking. He's proven that he can find players that fit his system and excel in it. English, Denmon, Safford, and Bowers are all glowing examples of that. He did the exact same thing at UAB.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Gameday! Tigers vs. Tigers! Should be a fun game to watch.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Hence the reason that 'Bama only gave Grant 5 days to decide. Everyone knew that the Kentucky firing was coming for some time now. 'Bama wants to make sure that he either commits or not. They don't want to get dragged into anything too drawn out while seeing other possible candidates hired by other programs in the meanwhile.

We haven't talked about it much here and I've been intentionally not playing my CAA Homer role. But since you mentioned it...

If the rumors about what Bama is offering grant are true, then I'm relatively surprised. I'm hearing 2-2.5 mil per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coaches in the nation (I think top 5-10?). That's a lot of dough to throw at a guy who has not proven himself at the highest level yet. Don't get me wrong, I think Grant is a great coach and I think he will succeed at a BCS school, I'm just surprise that a school is backing up the Brinks truck for him.

Edit: I also hadn't heard about the 5 day thing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

We haven't talked about it much here and I've been intentionally not playing my CAA Homer role. But since you mentioned it...

If the rumors about what Bama is offering grant are true, then I'm relatively surprised. I'm hearing 2-2.5 mil per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coaches in the nation (I think top 5-10?). That's a lot of dough to throw at a guy who has not proven himself at the highest level yet. Don't get me wrong, I think Grant is a great coach and I think he will succeed at a BCS school, I'm just surprise that a school is backing up the Brinks truck for him.

Edit: I also hadn't heard about the 5 day thing.

I think that price has just as much to do with the current state of the 'Bama program as it does the coach. It's not exactly a marquee job. You're playing second fiddle no matter what.

Report is that he and his wife made their second trip to Alabama yesterday and stayed overnight last night to think on it. We'll probably hear something relatively quickly. Either he stays in town and agrees to be the coach or he heads back to Virginia to wait for other offers. Either way, he won't be at VCU next year. Too many good openings available.

[GoldenEagle]

Good luck Missouri fans.

I am going to try to stay off the Internet at work today. We will see how that goes.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I think that price has just as much to do with the current state of the 'Bama program as it does the coach. It's not exactly a marquee job. You're playing second fiddle no matter what.

Report is that he and his wife made their second trip to Alabama yesterday and stayed overnight last night to think on it. We'll probably hear something relatively quickly. Either he stays in town and agrees to be the coach or he heads back to Virginia to wait for other offers. Either way, he won't be at VCU next year. Too many good openings available.

COMPLETELY agree with your last statement. The VCU fans on the CAA board seem to be settling with the same idea.

I figure he ends up at one of these three:

Bama
Florida
Virginia

I actually think that money being equal he'd like them in this order - Florida, Virginia, Bama. But Florida may take too long and Virginia I don't think has the cajones to step up to the plate.


The next big thing lingering for the VCU fans is whether he takes Larry Sanders with him. They of course insist that Grant would NEVER do that, but they need to accept that it's certainly a possibility - especially if Florida is the winning school (Sanders is from FL).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I am going to try to stay off the Internet at work today. We will see how that goes.

I'm gonna try that too. (Insert obligatory Sports Night Orlando Rojas reference that only a few people will get).

[spleen1015]

Isn't Izzo from Michigan? I don't think he leaves MSU because he's home.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Isn't Izzo from Michigan? I don't think he leaves MSU because he's home.

Yeah, but he's from the UP. A pretty far drive from East Lansing, but then again, anywhere else would be even further.

[Ksyrup]

Donovan seems to be the name floating around the most here, and he almost took the job 2 years ago, so who knows. Since then he's had the embarrassing flap with the Orlando job and his team went from NCAA champs to also-rans in a hurry (even FSU has beaten them 3 or 4 years in a row, I believe). And at a football-only school, that's not good. So I could see him deciding to make that jump, seeing as though he probably didn't expect to have another shot at this particular job so soon.

One thing Gillespie hasn't done here is "wear the crown" of KY basketball like they expect. Donovan would clearly have that Pitino-like cult of personality that would ingratiate him to the fans/boosters. Gillespie hasn't done that, and combine it with losing (and his bizarre substitution patterns, which around here, even law firm secretaries know enough about basketball to critique), he's left himself with little safety net. He's kinda in the same position Charlie Weiss was in this past off-season - not winning enough and hasn't made enough friends at the school. Plus, he's had some not-so-publicized "issues" with alcohol and driving around Lexington - "allegedly."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If the rumors about what Bama is offering grant are true, then I'm relatively surprised. I'm hearing 2-2.5 mil per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coaches in the nation (I think top 5-10?). That's a lot of dough to throw at a guy who has not proven himself at the highest level yet.

FWIW, upwards of 2 million is what Georgia was rumored to be considering as well, although they denied contacting him.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

FWIW, upwards of 2 million is what Georgia was rumored to be considering as well, although they denied contacting him.

He seems to have really hit the jackpot.

A) 2 NCAA tourneys in 3 years where he won a game and was within a makeable 2-pointer of winning another
B) His superstar G graduates this year
C) Several high-profile jobs opened this year
D) Some recent mid-major coaches have had good success making the jump (I.E. our boy Pearl)
E) There's not another young, sexy, up-and-coming mid-major coach right now.

So, C has caused almost a bidding war - or at least a pre-emptive bidding war for his services. You have an odd situation where there are several schools that have cash to throw around looking for a guy like him.

I think UGA would be a terrible spot for him fwiw. I know that a commentator for the AJC was pimping him, I just don't think that's a good match for him (although it would be great for UGA).

[wade moore]

Dola:

I forgot..

F) Has turned down a BCS job(s) (i forget if it was multiple) in the past.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cartman

In this day and age, being the only team to make it to the Sweet 16 each of the past four seasons definitely puts them under consideration.

Signing the #1 recruit each of the last 3 years, and having top 5 recruiting classes each of those years probably indicates elite status too.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Signing the #1 recruit each of the last 3 years, and having top 5 recruiting classes each of those years probably indicates elite status too.

I guess it depends on your definition here.

When you say "elite basketball programs" it's about more than the team right now. It's about the overall history of the program. This is why Kentucky qualifies, even though they didn't even make the dance this year.

To me what you're saying is they're one of the best teams right now, but that does not necessarily mean they are an elite program.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I guess it depends on your definition here.

When you say "elite basketball programs" it's about more than the team right now. It's about the overall history of the program. This is why Kentucky qualifies, even though they didn't even make the dance this year.

To me what you're saying is they're one of the best teams right now, but that does not necessarily mean they are an elite program.

Memphis reminds me a lot of UNLV during their heyday with Tark. Big run for a few years in a weaker conference with some good tourney runs and some questionable recruiting practices that land big recruits which could get them in trouble. For now, life is good in Memphis.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I think UGA would be a terrible spot for him fwiw.

That job might be a bad situation for just about any coach with a bright future.

Last year's SEC tournament surprise was a fun diversion but even if they got to the sweet sixteen they'd take a back seat to football recruiting except perhaps while the game was taking place. By the next morning the game story would be sharing space with notes from spring football practice and within 24 hours the football story would move ahead of it.

The right fit would probably be someone who could recruit 3* players & then coach them up a little, get an occasional 4* in-state talent, keep the players out of jail & in the classroom, be good at the alumni/donor golf events but be satisfied with flying under the radar most of the time. It's that last bit that's probably hard to find in conjunction with those other things though. They sort of need the anti-Bruce Pearl in some ways, just find a decent coach that does the job where the team is concerned & doesn't need to self-promote or try to turn the program into something it will never be.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Good luck Missouri fans.

I am going to try to stay off the Internet at work today. We will see how that goes.

Good luck Memphis fans as well.. this should be a great game.

I'll have to DVR it since we have a soccer game at 8:00 tonight.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That job might be a bad situation for just about any coach with a bright future.

Last year's SEC tournament surprise was a fun diversion but even if they got to the sweet sixteen they'd take a back seat to football recruiting except perhaps while the game was taking place. By the next morning the game story would be sharing space with notes from spring football practice and within 24 hours the football story would move ahead of it.

The right fit would probably be someone who could recruit 3* players & then coach them up a little, get an occasional 4* in-state talent, keep the players out of jail & in the classroom, be good at the alumni/donor golf events but be satisfied with flying under the radar most of the time. It's that last bit that's probably hard to find in conjunction with those other things though. They sort of need the anti-Bruce Pearl in some ways, just find a decent coach that does the job where the team is concerned & doesn't need to self-promote or try to turn the program into something it will never be.

100% correct.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Memphis reminds me a lot of UNLV during their heyday with Tark. Big run for a few years in a weaker conference with some good tourney runs and some questionable recruiting practices that land big recruits which could get them in trouble. For now, life is good in Memphis.

I would agree with this and that it does not make Memphis an elite program.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I guess it depends on your definition here.

When you say "elite basketball programs" it's about more than the team right now. It's about the overall history of the program. This is why Kentucky qualifies, even though they didn't even make the dance this year.

To me what you're saying is they're one of the best teams right now, but that does not necessarily mean they are an elite program.

I would have different definitions depending on whether you were talking about elite basketball programs in history or elite basketball programs right now. When using the generic term "basketball program" I default to talking about now.

Using the word "program" does mean you have to consider more than this year (for which I'd use the word "team"). Over the last 10 years, Memphis has been one of the 10 best programs in the country. Kentucky has not. When considering whether or not a program is "elite" I think you need to weight the most recent XX years a little more than what happened 40 years ago (XX being in the eye of the beholder). Winning that first title really isn't all that relevant as to whether Oregon is an elite program.

I also think you're underrating Memphis' history a little. They were in the Missouri Valley and Metro conferences when both were considered "major" conferences, and made regular tournament appearances and a final four out of each. They are 26th in all time NCAA tournament wins, ahead of Wake Forest, St. John's, Mizzouri, Pitt, Notre Dame.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But Calipari eventually has to get tired of playing in Conference USA and seeing his team get no national exposure during the regular season.

Not sure this is true. So far, all of his college success has been as a big fish in a small pond. Before leaving UMass for the NBA, he had other opportunities to move to a Big 6 school (probably got offers every year from 92-95). He chose to stay at UMass. When returning from the NBA, I am sure he got offers (or at least feelers) from any Big 6 team without an entrenched coach. He chose Memphis. He just seems to like that model.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Marmel

These other schools (none of which I am a fan of anyhow) were not the topic of discussion. If you think Calimari is running a clean program, you are delusional. He jumps to the NBA as soon as the Camby situation broke? They just couldn't tie him him, luckily for him. And I don't think I need to mention Worldwide Wes, DuJuan and Milt Wagner, Derek Rose, etc. How about telling a recruit that Carnesecca was dying? And don't tell me that sweet fed-ex PAID internship his players get doesn't ooze sleeze.

But other than that, I am sure he is on the up and up.

I'm not arguing that Calipari doesn't have shady recruiting ties and violates the spirit, if not the letter of the NCAA rulebook. And while I'm certain he wasn't behind giving Camby money, he clearly knew - Camby was a poor kid from East Hartford walking around campus with a $25k necklace on. What I'm arguing is it's no different than what goes on at almost every other big-time school in the country, in both basketball and football. The idea that Memphis will "get their comeuppance like UMass" is based on both teams being outside the BCS and traditional NCAA power structure. Case in point, UConn has a pretty open and shut case that the NCAA is beginning to investigate (almost as open and shut as USC and Reggie Bush) but they're not going to get anything more than probation guaranteed. Bottom line, outside of a select few who refuse to play by the AAU rules (Gary Williams comes to mind) every coach has shady ties and is committing NCAA violations. Pretending that Cal is worse than others is only because other schools tend to have clout to keep rumors in house - we've already had allegations of coke use, banging players gf's and drunken-driving at major universities in the last 2 pages.

I do apologize for assuming you were a UConn fan. I get very annoyed when people assume I'm a BC fan based off my location.

[Young Drachma]

The CBI Championship (best 2 out of 3) is UTEP versus Oregon State.

Yes, the same Oregon State that started the post-season 13-17, but is now 16-17.

College Basketball Invitational Update!! Beavers to Miners: You're Going Down | Bleacher Report

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

The CBI Championship (best 2 out of 3) is UTEP versus Oregon State.

Yes, the same Oregon State that started the post-season 13-17, but is now 16-17.

College Basketball Invitational Update!! Beavers to Miners: You're Going Down | Bleacher Report

This is serious?

[DataKing]

Beavers to Miners: You're Going Down

I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere, but I'm not feeling all that clever at the moment.

[Karlifornia]

So I guess that means Stanford lost to OSU in the semis. I'll try to feign disappointment:

"Feh."

[SportsDino]

It would take a hell of a deal to get Izzo away from MSU. He's got the spot locked up for life and gets to run the program the way he wants to. Why give that up for some other school's whiny bitch fans who will half want to fire him if he doesn't turn around the school the year he takes over?

As long as he gets paid, which he will, I'm pretty sure he will be a Spartan until retirement.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Noop

This is serious?

Yes. The 2nd College Basketball Invitational has best 2 out of 3 game championship series.

http://cbi2009.com/

Oregon State and UTEP are going to play for the CBI title.

[/cue the crowd who hate post-season events that aren't official]

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

So I guess that means Stanford lost to OSU in the semis. I'll try to feign disappointment:

"Feh."

Yes, they lost in overtime.

[Young Drachma]

Here's the other post-season tournament, the collegeinsider.com tournament:

CollegeInsider.com Postseason Tournament Schedule

The main difference between the two:

The CIT doesn't take teams with losing records and basically cast itself as the "mid-major" tournament, whereas the CBI is a straight up cash grab. Schools in that tournament have to pay a pretty large fee to participate, whereas the CIT only makes the home team pay a $2400 fee and then they keep all of the home gate and everything and the tournament pays the road team travel costs.


The CIT came about when the CBI moved its entire tournament to HDNet, Mark Cuban's personal TV fiefdom and that left Fox Sports Net without a college tournament to broadcast. So they're going to broadcast the final of the CIT now.

SEMIFINALS:

Wednesday March 25
Bradley 59, Pacific 49 Recap | Box

Thursday March 26
James Madison (21-14) @ Old Dominion (23-10)


CHAMPIONSHIP GAME: (televised on Fox College Sports)

Tuesday March 31

James Madison (21-14) or Old Dominion (23-10) @ Bradley (21-14)

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Memphis reminds me a lot of UNLV during their heyday with Tark. Big run for a few years in a weaker conference with some good tourney runs and some questionable recruiting practices that land big recruits which could get them in trouble. For now, life is good in Memphis.

Please tell me more about these questionable recruiting practices. Once again, this is just you blowing smoke with no concrete proof or even anything substantial. Also, UNLV was doomed to fail because it was not built for success. Memphis has one the of best arenas, some of the best facilities, and one the best fanbases in the country. It has positioned itself nicely when the next conference shake-up happens.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I would agree with this and that it does not make Memphis an elite program.

When I used the term elite, I meant it more in terms of today then terms of the past. I think an elite program (the original argument was would Missouri bounce back like Kansas) today can have success year after year in the current college basketball landscape. Tradition is starting to matter less and less.

How many teams, right now, can go to Sweet Sixteen and the Elite Eight year after year? Memphis, UNC, Kansas, maybe Duke, UConn, and Michigan State.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Here's the other post-season tournament, the collegeinsider.com tournament:

CollegeInsider.com Postseason Tournament Schedule

The main difference between the two:

The CIT doesn't take teams with losing records and basically cast itself as the "mid-major" tournament, whereas the CBI is a straight up cash grab. Schools in that tournament have to pay a pretty large fee to participate, whereas the CIT only makes the home team pay a $2400 fee and then they keep all of the home gate and everything and the tournament pays the road team travel costs.


The CIT came about when the CBI moved its entire tournament to HDNet, Mark Cuban's personal TV fiefdom and that left Fox Sports Net without a college tournament to broadcast. So they're going to broadcast the final of the CIT now.

w00t - guaranteed to have a Virginia CAA school in the CBI tourney final .

[adubroff]

This game looks like it's being watched by about 1500 people. I know that's a big arena and they spread out some but the number ofempty seats at the outset is a ton. It's less than 5 yrs before they stop even bothering with actual tournament sites, just play these games in TV Studios.

I am looking forward to the Duke Nova game this week (I'm a Nova rooter to be fair). I'm curious to see whether either team tries to deviate from it's general offensive script. Both teams seem to want to play the same way so I think when you get that it's going to be a good game to watch. I don't know that I'd deviate(much), particularly if I were Jay Wright. You wonder if K will try to play a little slower and take Nova out of their game.

[Swaggs]

I'm shocked that Blair is getting manhandled in this game.

[Logan]

I'll be getting Nova-Duke tonight (which I think will be a great game) but really want to see MEM-MIZ too. I hadn't messed around with MMOD because of the delay, which combined with seeing the other scores on TV is a problem. But I just pulled up the zoom feature on my plasma and it could not be any more perfect as far as cutting off the scores on top.

[MJ4H]

haha nice idea. that bothers me too.

[adubroff]

I think Purdue is gonna look back at the first few minutes of this half at the end of the game and kick themselves. UConn is flat as all get out and they haven't really gotten much done. Purdue is playing hard but poorly...

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by adubroff

This game looks like it's being watched by about 1500 people. I know that's a big arena and they spread out some but the number ofempty seats at the outset is a ton. It's less than 5 yrs before they stop even bothering with actual tournament sites, just play these games in TV Studios.

The Purdue-UConn game? It started at 5 local time in Arizona.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by adubroff

I think Purdue is gonna look back at the first few minutes of this half at the end of the game and kick themselves. UConn is flat as all get out and they haven't really gotten much done. Purdue is playing hard but poorly...

Thabeet is just dominating, but Purdue as bad as they are playing they are still in it.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Balldog

The Purdue-UConn game? It started at 5 local time in Arizona.

Maybe, but 3/4 of the way through the game the second and upper decks appear totally empty.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Maybe, but 3/4 of the way through the game the second and upper decks appear totally empty.

Over 10,000 tickets (of a possible 35k) still available as of yesterday afternoon. $81 each, so basically $27 per game (but you have to buy all three games if you're going today).
Plenty of seats left for NCAA West regionals in Glendale - Phoenix Business Journal:

[Swaggs]

Xavier is imploding with turnovers.

Will be interesting to see if Miller can get them calmed back down.

[miami_fan]

Xavier is doing its best to give this game to Pitt

[adubroff]

10,000 tickets left is suprising. None of these teams are remotely close to Glendale. If you're a big hoops fan though, you're possibly getting UConn Memphis next round which is a national championship level game.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Over 10,000 tickets (of a possible 35k) still available as of yesterday afternoon. $81 each, so basically $27 per game (but you have to buy all three games if you're going today).
Plenty of seats left for NCAA West regionals in Glendale - Phoenix Business Journal:

I noticed last weekend's games didn't look to be quite full either. I wonder if the economy has taken a toll on the tournament.

[adubroff]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I noticed last weekend's games didn't look to be quite full either. I wonder if the economy has taken a toll on the tournament.

Even in a good economy, the first round has issues with open seats. They play at weird times for TV and they often don't have a natural draw in the subregion.

[Logan]

I'd think also the general economy would prevent some of the not-quite diehards from following their team around the country, or at least causing people to hold off for the Final Four.