Alright boyz, here we go!!! OOTP2006 First Impressions Thread!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm actually pretty fascinated by this impression of Markus.

{shrug}
I can only speak from direct personal experience.
Someone else's mileage may vary.

[Philliesfan980]

I do agree with the blogger in SOME regard regarding Puresim, and I'm in the same camp. Fair or not, I have some bias towards SS in wanting his sim to work well, because he seems to be an upfront guy, and is VERY eager to correct problems. Not saying that Marcus isn't, I think SS just goes the extra mile with regards to customer service (in my eyes).

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

I do agree with the blogger in SOME regard regarding Puresim, and I'm in the same camp. Fair or not, I have some bias towards SS in wanting his sim to work well, because he seems to be an upfront guy, and is VERY eager to correct problems. Not saying that Marcus isn't, I think SS just goes the extra mile with regards to customer service (in my eyes).

I remember when SS started this back in the usenet days. I agree that he really cares about the sim and wanting it to work.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I remember when SS started this back in the usenet days. I agree that he really cares about the sim and wanting it to work.

Yeah, I agree. It just goes to show how people really rally around someone who doesn't come off as pompus/arrogant, which is what Shawn seems to be in a nutshell.

Funny how attitude will build a lot of goodwill .

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson

All of the beta team members that chatted with me during the testing process wanted the release delayed. All of them. But you are witnessing the thankless job beta testing is both in the FOFC.com and OOTP forums. These testers pointed out many flaws, but the game was released anyhow. Then you get idiots like "lynchjm24" in the FOFC.com boards assuming that these very dedicated and selfless baseball fans are dolts.

I love how you act like you've got a direct line into God because you 'chatted with some Beta testers". Wow, that's pretty big time.

Funny, I don't remember one of the tester's blogs being about roster/waiver/trade AI. They had no problem pumping up the game, go back and read the happy horseshit they wrote.

Yes, they are so dedicated and selfless. It's quite a chore to beta test a computer baseball game. Please, they aren't out clothing lepers, save the drama.

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson

There is one thing I would like to point out about a couple of the posters in that thread. Some of them spend a lot of time helping Shaun Sullivan with his PureSim line

This is also pretty clearly directed at me. If you read this thread as closely as you say you have, you'd likely notice at the beginning how much I wanted to like this game. I won't bother going back to quote myself, but the game does some impressive things. Of course, the fact that almost none of them work doesn't seem to bother a pretty sizeable amount of people.

If what you say is true and the beta testers were against the release then why should I believe that SI is intelligent enough to fix this game, when clearly they were so stupid as to ignore that very salient advice?

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson

Many, like me, ONLY play OOTP online. It really infuriates me that neither Markus nor Mark, nor anybody from SI could answer the simple question - what files are necessary for online league play?

Of course, I guess it's ok for you to rant when it's a feature that you aren't happy with. If I mention that the game is an unplayable trainwreck, I'm an idiot. If SI doesn't do what you want, then they are 'asinine'.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Yeah, I agree. It just goes to show how people really rally around someone who doesn't come off as pompus/arrogant, which is what Shawn seems to be in a nutshell.

Funny how attitude will build a lot of goodwill .

I'm not really looking for goodwill but I do like and root for Shawn.

oops isn't it Shaun?

[Philliesfan980]

Funny stuff... Lynch is quoting and talking to someone who didn't actually post here! Is that a FOFC first?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Drake

I'm actually pretty fascinated by this impression of Markus. We've got a couple of beta testers over in the FOBL who worked (and continue to work) really hard helping to iron out some aspects of the game. They've said over and over again that Markus is more than happy to make AI changes if the beta testers support their proposals with hard evidence. It seems like Markus is actually a pretty math oriented guy, and for him to clearly see the problem, he needs to have it presented to him in mathematical terms, but once he *does* see it, he fixes it.

And anyone who thinks that we might be fanboys hasn't spent any time over at the FOBL.

I get the impression that Jim GA doesn't like the "Euros."

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Funny stuff... Lynch is quoting and talking to someone who didn't actually post here! Is that a FOFC first?

Most of it was posted by someone else. I just stumbled upon the last little bit when I followed the link.

He's right though, I'm an idiot. For buying the game.

[Galaril]

I read some of this guy Chris Johnson's "blog" and came across something interesting in his initial OOTP 06 impressions:

"Overall, I am very happy with OOTPB 2006. Is it perfect? No, and hopefully patches will bring it closer to perfection. But SI made this game for guys like me. And you if you read this blog for my text-gaming comments.
An internet buddy of mine asked me earlier, "Have they finally made our game?" The answer is a resounding YES!"

So I can take away from that that this guy is good friends with former-DC Mayor Marion Barry.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Most of it was posted by someone else. I just stumbled upon the last little bit when I followed the link.

He's right though, I'm an idiot. For buying the game.

You're not an idiot for buying the game, don't sweat it. We were all juiced up for it.

[MizzouRah]

Cardinals already played today.. so I'm bored.

Here's more from Mr. Johnson:

All you have to do is play five minutes of PureSim's seamless online mode to understand just how easy it could be to run an online league.

Seems to me he likes Puresim. Interesting..

Many, like me, ONLY play OOTP online

If he played "solo" he wouldn't be happy with that portion either.

The complexity will turn some people off, but there are other options out there if you don't want to worry about tracking everything you need to in this game. PureSim Baseball is a fine product and even Baseball Mogul will satisfy those who want to quickly get into a game and see what happens. Heck, continue playing OOTP 6.5. I don't think people complaining about this or that missing realize just how different OOTPB 2006 is from the older versions. It is almost a completely different game.

OOTPB 2006 is a baseball universe simulator. And I like it a lot.

I think for solo players, the highlighted portion sums it up nicely.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Axxon

May I ask on who? Seriously. It got a bit heated grant you but I don't think anyone went to the point of deserving a boxing.

Don't worry I wouldn't report you, I don't consider your comments a problem.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by James.Gattis

Thanks for steering towards constructive criticism. The game needs it and Ive already reported several bugs over at ootp. But the FOF boards are not the SI technical support forum. This thread is called 'first impressions' and folks are coming by to see if they want to spend their time with the new ootp.

My first impression: Wow this is complicated!

Second impression: ... and buggy as f-u-c-k (5 crashes first day)

Third impression: ... and the ai sucks and the in-game sim is broken and they killed my favorite features and didnt add anything I wanted

Having paid $35 I hope Ive got the right to post those thoughts in a 'first impression' thread without posting every bug-track number for every bug I reported.

Hope that helps!

Studying your posts and IP, are you sure your not my favourite troll "James"

[Marc Duffy]

This thread does appear to be taking the wrong route now so before it crashes and burns I'd like to close my part off by saying that is indeed an important patch for SI and whatever your opinions of the game and your problems we are listening and work begins today on Patch2.

Some of you seem to have made up your mind about the game already but if you haven't and you are interested in helping us fix some of your biggest issues I will stress again that I am putting together a team of people from various forums to work with us on patch2.

It matters not to me if the issue is a longstanding one, Markus is committed to making the best baseball game ever and we are firmly behind him. Threads like this only go to show me how much passion and perhaps how popular the game is or will be. I'll do my best to report back with patch2 progress and no doubt some of the members of this forum will also be posting as they get regular builds for testing.

Thanks for all the constructive comments and hello to all the trolls.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That doesn't surprise me one bit really (as I've alluded to at least a couple of times earlier in the thread).

It wouldn't be the first time that Markus has steadfastly refused to listen to members of a beta team when they offered anything other than fodder for his ample ego.

not so much for your benefit, because I know you wont back down from any of your wrong assumptions about life, but there are still some open-minded people reading this clusterfuck...

the suggestion that Markus doesn't listen to members of the beta team is just flat-out wrong. He listened to testers a great deal; the number of features/changes in the game brought about by direct feedback from the testers is immeasurable. And that's from personal experience, not some he-said, she-said crap or you feeling a disturbance in the force, or whatever other bullshit method you want to invent to grind your proverbial axe.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

It matters not to me if the issue is a longstanding one, Markus is committed to making the best baseball game ever and we are firmly behind him. Threads like this only go to show me how much passion and perhaps how popular the game is or will be. I'll do my best to report back with patch2 progress and no doubt some of the members of this forum will also be posting as they get regular builds for testing.

If you can fix the trade AI / waivers issue (ideally to FM level, but at a minimum where it's not easy to exploit the AI or easy to spot really stupid AI trades), I'd probably pull my credit card back out based on the demo.

[JPhillips]

I've played a few seasons forward to see what happens and found another problem. The team personnel seem to have auto-renewed contracts as I never once lost a staff member or signed an extension. They also don't gain any experience as the years role by. My pitching coach in year three had zero years of experience even though he'd been with me the whole game.

I would also love to have a personal message when a player moves from arbritation eleigible to free agent eligible during the season. I've lost a couple of guys because I wasn't diligent about checking contract status every month.

And now I'll probably put aside the game until patch two as the AI problems really are killing the fun.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by moriarty

If you can fix the trade AI / waivers issue (ideally to FM level, but at a minimum where it's not easy to exploit the AI or easy to spot really stupid AI trades), I'd probably pull my credit card back out based on the demo.

Difficult for me to correlate FM to OOTP since FM is so much more mature but I'm confident that we can improve the AI and you will get your card out!

[miked]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

Difficult for me to correlate FM to OOTP since FM is so much more mature but I'm confident that we can improve the AI and you will get your card out!

Ah...but is it? Maybe the code is more mature, but the thinking/development that's been going into the AI has been developed for 7 versions now.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

This thread does appear to be taking the wrong route now so before it crashes and burns I'd like to close my part off by saying that is indeed an important patch for SI and whatever your opinions of the game and your problems we are listening and work begins today on Patch2.

Some of you seem to have made up your mind about the game already but if you haven't and you are interested in helping us fix some of your biggest issues I will stress again that I am putting together a team of people from various forums to work with us on patch2.

It matters not to me if the issue is a longstanding one, Markus is committed to making the best baseball game ever and we are firmly behind him. Threads like this only go to show me how much passion and perhaps how popular the game is or will be. I'll do my best to report back with patch2 progress and no doubt some of the members of this forum will also be posting as they get regular builds for testing.

Thanks for all the constructive comments and hello to all the trolls.

Sounds good Marc. I'm certainly not one who gripes about the issues and then sits by while others help. I would be willing to go through logs or generated website leagues to help in fixing these issues if needed.

I haven't bought the game yet, nor do I want a free copy, so anything I can do to help along those lines is fine with me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

... whatever other bullshit method you want to invent to grind your proverbial axe.

You mean like having had the misfortune of being on an OOTP beta team in the past? Like having watched as developer arrogance & ignorance boiled attempts at explanation and improvement down to "I'm right, you're wrong, I am ze baseball expert here". Sorry if being a part of the pitiful excuse for a process isn't method enough to suit you, feel free to take a long walk off a short pier to make yourself feel better.

Defend all you want DD but the proof in is the multi-generational errors, which have been pointed out even more times than you've said something stupid.

edit to add: In theory, it's possible that SI could exert enough control to force necessary changes to be made. That's essentially the faint thin hope I referred to having for the newest version of OOTP earlier in the thread. Clearly, that has not happened to date, perhaps they'll do better future forward but that's something I really don't believe warrants much faith until we see a lot more evidence of it.
If they manage to pull it off, I'll consider it one of the most remarkable acheivements in both gaming history and personnel management I've ever seen.

[JPhillips]

Have to add a couple of other observations after looking around before closing my career.

There wasn't a single scout or coach below ML level that was rated in double digits at any skill. There also seems to be no development of scouts/managers as the same set gets shuffled around the league.

The owner's expectations are too tied to the previous year's record. In year two I was expected to reach the playoffs but I slid under .500 after a series of bad trades. In year three I'm expected to play .500 ball. My owner should be pissed and demand that I reach the playoffs or else.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I was on the beta team once, I made a suggestion, they didn't take it, and now I'm going to make them pay for it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh goody, another "expert" heard from.

I honestly don't recall a single good idea from anyone involved in that debacle being heeded, although the fanboy love sometimes got a good response.

But hey, maybe I'm just overly sensitive. After all, having an AI that responds to baseball situations in a manner appropriate to baseball is just a silly little personal quirk that I should be ashamed of myself for having. How dare I worry about that.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh goody, another "expert" heard from.

I honestly don't recall a single good idea from anyone involved in that debacle being heeded, although the fanboy love sometimes got a good response.

But hey, maybe I'm just overly sensitive. After all, having an AI that responds to baseball situations in a manner appropriate to baseball is just a silly little personal quirk that I should be ashamed of myself for having. How dare I worry about that.

Jon you've still yet to answer my question. What is your favorite game?.

[Desmond]

Jon, your initial point is very valid. Your further behavior however is about as childish as a grown man could act. We understand your point, but your continuing temper tantrum is very unflattering.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Desmond

We understand your point, but your continuing temper tantrum is very unflattering.

I get attacked repeatedly and respond to it, but I'm having a tantrum?
Damn Desmond, how much shit do you honestly expect me to sit & take?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I get attacked repeatedly and respond to it, but I'm having a tantrum?
Damn Desmond, how much shit do you honestly expect me to sit & take?

So now you are the victim? Refresh our memory of the post that you personally were first attacked in?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I get attacked repeatedly and respond to it, but I'm having a tantrum?
Damn Desmond, how much shit do you honestly expect me to sit & take?

There's hundreds here who wish that answer was "nowhere near this much"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Jon you've still yet to answer my question. What is your favorite game?.

Never saw the question apparently, or didn't answer at the time & forgot to go back to it. Sorry about that.

As for "favorite" depends on how you want to break it down.

Games (at least pc sports text sims) that I've spent the most hours with?
Never tried too hard to keep track of it, but off-hand I'd say that FOF is up there (mostly due to several careers that ran around two decades or more), I've spent a lot more time than I would have ever expected with TPB 2005, a lot of hours with CM 03-04. And quite possibly more total hours on Oliver Copp's TNM wrestling game than any other pc game ever. Further back, I spent a lot of time, relative to my total pc gaming at least, with FPS Baseball.

More recently, I went through a reasonably long run with EHM 2005 and actually got a good month or more out of BM 2006, as well as still doing some lather-rinse-repeat stuff with the aforementioned TPB 2005. I really wanted to get into TEW 2005 & spent a goodly number of hours with it relative to my total pc gaming but some of that time deserves an asterisk or something just because of the clickfest nature of the game (it's just not something that you can play much without investing a lot of time into).

Games that I thought did the best job of what they tried to do?
SAT Pro (the translation of the First and Ten dice & chart game to pc), various versions of CM, and a game that I never got around to buying but thought handled itself well based on the demo called Flying Shale (speedway bikes in the UK of all things).

That's far from an exhaustive list and I'm sure I've left off some stuff that I should have mentioned, but maybe that goes some way toward answering your question.

[James.Gattis]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The good gets mentioned with the bad. You have people who love the game and say so and people who despise the game and say so. At FOFC, we don't just slam a game without cause.

I'm new to these boards but it sure beats getting shouted down by the fanboys at OOTP. I was a huge 6.5 fan but then I post some criticism of this version and get called an idiot.

Brilliant!

[James.Gattis]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Funny, I don't remember one of the tester's blogs being about roster/waiver/trade AI. They had no problem pumping up the game, go back and read the happy horseshit they wrote.

Yeah I pre-ordered because of the beta tester comments. So who bribed them to not mention the bugs? Or was it just such an "honor" to be a beta tester that they didn't want to say anything bad. Either way, they get blame for EITHER:

1. Lying about the game
2. Being idiots

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by James.Gattis

Yeah I pre-ordered because of the beta tester comments. So who bribed them to not mention the bugs? Or was it just such an "honor" to be a beta tester that they didn't want to say anything bad. Either way, they get blame for EITHER:

1. Lying about the game
2. Being idiots

Except that while something is in beta it seems stupid to point out bugs. Of course there are going to be bugs, that's why you are testing it. Presumably rather then including it in their writeup they logged the bug so that it could be corrected.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by James.Gattis

Yeah I pre-ordered because of the beta tester comments. So who bribed them to not mention the bugs? Or was it just such an "honor" to be a beta tester that they didn't want to say anything bad. Either way, they get blame for EITHER:

1. Lying about the game
2. Being idiots

Of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they all signed NDAs and would risk legal action by releasing information without permission.

Be patient. These issues will be worked out. Talking about things you know nothing about doesn't do any good and it reconfirms your jackassery.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by James.Gattis

Yeah I pre-ordered because of the beta tester comments. So who bribed them to not mention the bugs? Or was it just such an "honor" to be a beta tester that they didn't want to say anything bad. Either way, they get blame for EITHER:

1. Lying about the game
2. Being idiots

I don't think either is true to be frank, there are some very intelligent people who helped with the beta testing.

With any product what one person see's as a 'game killing' bug another might see as minor (or even not notice).

Markus is working hard to ensure that any reported problems are rectified as promptly as possible and that the game evolves to fulfil its promise. Obviously we'd have preferred it to be perfect upon release, but that obviously hasn't been possible (although believe it or not I do expect there are a fair few happy people playing it - as I indicated different people look for different things ).

Please report any problems you find which you want rectified on the OOTP boards and help the game continue to improve, it might surprise you to know but we generally recruit our off-site beta testers from disgruntled malcontents (nice turn of phrase I know, but hopefully you realise what I mean ) generally rather than from 'fan boys' simply because they often are the people who spot the minutae of detail that will make our games correct and that little bit 'special' when people play them.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Markus is working hard to ensure that any reported problems are rectified as promptly as possible and that the game evolves to fulfil its promise. Obviously we'd have preferred it to be perfect upon release, but that obviously hasn't been possible (although believe it or not I do expect there are a fair few happy people playing it - as I indicated different people look for different things ).

I think you are missing the point.

A lot of the problems that exist have existed through numerous iterations of the game and still haven't been fixed over the years and yet "new" features keep being added while these issues that need to be fixed, are not. Poor AI and the waiver wire have been a thorn for many people and yet, year after year, those issues still reside.

I own OOTP 3 through to 6 and I vowed not to buy the update to 6.5 or any other version until the AI was better and the ridiculous waiver wire issues were fixed...guess I'll be holding onto my money a while longer.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I think you are missing the point.

A lot of the problems that exist have existed through numerous iterations of the game and still haven't been fixed over the years and yet "new" features keep being added while these issues that need to be fixed, are not. Poor AI and the waiver wire have been a thorn for many people and yet, year after year, those issues still reside.

I own OOTP 3 through to 6 and I vowed not to buy the update to 6.5 or any other version until the AI was better and the ridiculous waiver wire issues were fixed...guess I'll be holding onto my money a while longer.

I agree with you and I have not bought the game either, but wanted to add a further point. Since you have not bought the product you currently do not have any financial stake in the game. Marc has said earlier in this thread that he is aware of the issues from previous versions still existing in this version. He has stated a couple of times that he wants to fix these issues and make them right. The ball is in his court, all you and I can do is wait and see what they do. I think in the last couple of days, Marc has said that they know the ball is in their court, they just need some more time to fix them.

Time will tell if they fix these issues, but I think we are past the point where we need to try convince them that these issues have lingered from version to version and need to be fixed. They know these issues need to be fixed, lets see what happens.

Off to read another 20 pages of threads on FM so I can figure out how I want to setup my league.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by James.Gattis

Yeah I pre-ordered because of the beta tester comments. So who bribed them to not mention the bugs? Or was it just such an "honor" to be a beta tester that they didn't want to say anything bad. Either way, they get blame for EITHER:

1. Lying about the game
2. Being idiots

What was your order number? I've no pre-order from you "James" from Seattle...

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I think you are missing the point.

A lot of the problems that exist have existed through numerous iterations of the game and still haven't been fixed over the years and yet "new" features keep being added while these issues that need to be fixed, are not. Poor AI and the waiver wire have been a thorn for many people and yet, year after year, those issues still reside.

I own OOTP 3 through to 6 and I vowed not to buy the update to 6.5 or any other version until the AI was better and the ridiculous waiver wire issues were fixed...guess I'll be holding onto my money a while longer.

No, I see your point (dont get confused with the two Marc's from SI)

I see your point, I am pushing to get this all worked upon for patch2. I've assembled a team of FOFC testers and others to help tell us exactly what theye think is wrong

[Easy Mac]

man, the wireless internet you're leaching goes down for 5 days and you completely miss the downfall of OOTP. I can only say that I purchased the game, began to set up a league, stopped and said it isn't worth my time right now, and promptly went back to FM.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

I see your point, I am pushing to get this all worked upon for patch2. I've assembled a team of FOFC testers and others to help tell us exactly what theye think is wrong

Nope...you've once again missed the point. If you are talking about fixing all this stuff in PATCH 2 then you don't have a clue about what I'm talking about.

All of this stuff should've been addressed several years ago, not now. That's the point. If they've been trying to fix the issues over the years then they've obviously missed the boat or don't understand what's wrong. I don't know how the latter could be possible with the thousands of threads started over the last couple of years talking about the AI problems, but apparently if you guys need to assemble "a team of FOFC testers" to identify these problems, then I shouldn't be surprised.

So, I'm curious, during beta testing, were the beta testers satisfied with the way the AI worked?? Did they report any issues with the way the AI handled trades or the waiver wire?? If the problems were reported, was the plan all along to fix the issues in a patch somewhere down the road??

It seems really odd to me that after playing the demo for a couple of hours that I would see silliness like a top team dropping their best player (top of several offensive categories after two months) on the waiver wire in favour of a guy hitting just over .100 in AA and the beta testers never saw anything like that at all in the, I'm hoping, hundreds of hours they spent testing. Does that sound right to you?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

No, I see your point (dont get confused with the two Marc's from SI)

I see your point, I am pushing to get this all worked upon for patch2. I've assembled a team of FOFC testers and others to help tell us exactly what theye think is wrong

Now we're talking.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Nope...you've once again missed the point. If you are talking about fixing all this stuff in PATCH 2 then you don't have a clue about what I'm talking about.

All of this stuff should've been addressed several years ago, not now. That's the point. If they've been trying to fix the issues over the years then they've obviously missed the boat or don't understand what's wrong. I don't know how the latter could be possible with the thousands of threads started over the last couple of years talking about the AI problems, but apparently if you guys need to assemble "a team of FOFC testers" to identify these problems, then I shouldn't be surprised.

So, I'm curious, during beta testing, were the beta testers satisfied with the way the AI worked?? Did they report any issues with the way the AI handled trades or the waiver wire?? If the problems were reported, was the plan all along to fix the issues in a patch somewhere down the road??

It seems really odd to me that after playing the demo for a couple of hours that I would see silliness like a top team dropping their best player (top of several offensive categories after two months) on the waiver wire in favour of a guy hitting just over .100 in AA and the beta testers never saw anything like that at all in the, I'm hoping, hundreds of hours they spent testing. Does that sound right to you?

This is the first version of OOTP released from SI. Wait or do not wait until patch 2 arrives. If it's not fixed then do not buy it. But neither Marc was ever involved in the other versions of OOTP, so you can blame Markus about the issues that get carried over from version to version.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

(although believe it or not I do expect there are a fair few happy people playing it - as I indicated different people look for different things

I don't know, read your boards - they have never anything close to this negative about OOTP.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

This is the first version of OOTP released from SI. Wait or do not wait until patch 2 arrives. If it's not fixed then do not buy it. But neither Marc was ever involved in the other versions of OOTP, so you can blame Markus about the issues that get carried over from version to version.

I'm not blaming Marc at all, but because he's the service rep, he gets to wear it...that's his job.

My point is why do we have to wait for the second patch for something that should've been fixed years ago?? Both SI and Markus are to blame for that. Markus either hasn't tried or hasn't been successful in fixing it over the years and SI is responsible for putting out this game with the exact same flaws...despite a brand new rewrite.

I'd still like to know how stuff like this gets through beta testing...

[dervack]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I'm not blaming Marc at all, but because he's the service rep, he gets to wear it...that's his job.

My point is why do we have to wait for the second patch for something that should've been fixed years ago?? Both SI and Markus are to blame for that. Markus either hasn't tried or hasn't been successful in fixing it over the years and SI is responsible for putting out this game with the exact same flaws...despite a brand new rewrite.

I'd still like to know how stuff like this gets through beta testing...

And you really don't even have to go back that far. A lot of these same points were brought up when they first uploaded the reports, and it didn't seem that there was any concern from anyone from SI nor the beta testers. Hell, it seems that the pitchers playing the field was such an easy fix that Markus had it taken care of in the first patch, but couldn't get it taken care of when it was pointed out here and the big boards the first time the reports were uploaded.

[RainMaker]

Not to pile on and this is more or less out of curiousity. But has anyone else noticed less action in the mod community of OOTP this year? I know in years past there were tons of rosters, facepacks, etc at all times. I know they gave the game to a lot of the roster makers and such early. This is the first year I can ever remember that they didn't have a MLB roster set within a week or two. Doesn't look like the MLB set is coming through anytime soon either. Not sure if that is a new SI thing, but Markus always seemed to give the mod guys big headstarts.

[SackAttack]

RainMaker, I suspect that's because of a) the difficulty with customization (they actually have to create a guide for this thing, and in my experience not everything works) and b) the guide isn't finished yet.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

All of this stuff should've been addressed several years ago, not now. That's the point. If they've been trying to fix the issues over the years then they've obviously missed the boat or don't understand what's wrong. I don't know how the latter could be possible with the thousands of threads started over the last couple of years talking about the AI problems, but apparently if you guys need to assemble "a team of FOFC testers" to identify these problems, then I shouldn't be surprised.

Since I was not involved in the game for the previous versions I cannot say that I know about such long standing issues

So, I'm curious, during beta testing, were the beta testers satisfied with the way the AI worked?? Did they report any issues with the way the AI handled trades or the waiver wire?? If the problems were reported, was the plan all along to fix the issues in a patch somewhere down the road??

yes, the beta testers reporting many many things wrong with the game and loads of it got fixed. Whilst it's regrettable that we seemingly didnt get it all fixed in time (or fixed to we offer a post sales service in the way of support and patches and it's what we are working towards