The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season - Page 24

sterlingice · 02-21-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Who had the 2nd quarter for "Joe Crawford T's up a coach and gets himself on TV during a national game?"

That's not a betting pool, that's a drinking game

SI

TroyF · 02-21-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

If you're using that defense, this was the back end of a west coast swing and the C's 3rd game in 4 days, plus Nate Robinson isn't there yet. We came back and made a game of it, but going down 19 after 1 points to some tired legs coming in.

Hey, I agree. Last game of a long road trip, you are worn out and shorthanded.

The night after the Denver game the Cavs were mauled in Charlotte. I think B2B after an emotional game is tough in this league. The last game of a long road trip is also difficult. Look at betting lines and it becomes obvious that even the great teams have schedule losses in the NBA regular season. After the first quarter, the game played out just about the way I expected. C's are too professional to throw in the towel. I knew they'd come back. Then I expected that comeback to take a lot out of em and the Nuggets to turn on the jets at home. Nothing really shocked me there. Also, Paul Peirce is clearly not himself right now.

That said, all of the Denver tank jobs this year haven't come after B2B's. Start listing the bad losses Denver has this year, and you'll have a big page. Denver and the C's have gotten to their records in 100% opposite ways. Denver crushes +500 teams and tanks it against the dregs. Boston has struggled against the elite and destroyed the dregs. You could make a case for both as good and bad heading into the playoffs.

FWIW - Denver is now 25-11 against +.500 teams and 11-3 vs. the top 4 teams in each conference. (Cle, Orl, Bos, Atl, LAl, UT and Dal) That means 12-8 against below .500. Just two or three of those games and Denver could be challenging the Lakers for the one seed, instead of fighting it out for the two.

whomario · 02-22-2010, 03:23 AM

Denver looked impressive yesterday in stretches, but also looked very predictable without Billups on the floor. JR Smith is still walking on a thin line between explosive scorer and erratic chucker ...

This just in : Darko Milicic looked like a pretty decent NBA player. A way out of shape NBA player, but good nonetheless ... 8 points, 8 boards, nice passing and good defense and being on the court over Jefferson in the final minutes ... No coincidence he was a +35 in a 2 point loss.
Allow me to gloat for a few minutes

Fully expect that to be false hope though ...
I just don´t get it. The huy is huge, still pretty mobile (even the out-of-shape version), has good footwork making him a pretty damn good Pick and Roll defender, is also a good man defender, blocks shots, can Post up and shoot from 15 feet.
I want him to get it together, now. He needs to channel is anger in turn it into positive energy for once (seriously, every time you see his face the guy looks like he´s about to go on a killing spree within seconds).

Al Jefferson looks terrible this year btw. Ineffective on offense, atrocious as allways on defense, clearly not fully healthy.
They won´t turn this around with him as their go-to-player.

For the Thunder Durant with just another day at the office, 32 Points on 16 FGAs, 12 in the last 2 minutes... Westbrook with hist first TD, 22/10/14.
GS beats Atlanta, Steph Curry 32 points with just 1 three. His midrange game is much better than expected.

TroyF · 02-22-2010, 11:08 AM

whomario,

Lawson is still playing well, but he's become way too unselfish. When he's attacking the basket, the second unit is 100% different than when he's throwing the ball to JR and getting out of the way. I hope the coaching staff encourages him to go into attack mode more frequently. FWIW, I thought Chauncey played very poorly for most of the third quarter of the Nuggets/Celtics game. Melo was a bystander for a big part of the third quarter. Carmelo didn't take a shot for the first 7 minutes of the quarter. I think ball handling is the main seperator between Melo and Bron. Bron never has to go 7 minutes without taking a shot, because he's got the ball every possession. Melo will sometimes go three to seven minutes without a touch. While there is no way Melo could/should handle the ball as much as Bron, he should also very, very rarely go 7 minutes without a shot attempt.

JR always, and I mean always walks that line. The key with him is for GK to watch when he's on and off and adjust his minutes accordingly. He catches fire, he should play 35 minutes. He goes cold, he should play about 20. The mistake is when he's cold and GK plays him for 27 minutes. He kills Denver when he's like that and gets minutes.

Have to hand it to Utah. I really thought they'd tail off right after the break. Instead they keep winning. Horrible loss for the Blazers last night.

As for that Golden State game, look at that final quarter. 35-14. Yikes. Hawks will be kicking themselves for that loss and now have to go to Utah tonight.

whomario · 02-22-2010, 12:51 PM

@ TroyF : That was kinda what i meant to say, should have connected my sentences better propably

All they do is give the ball to Smith and stand around. Or worse : give the ball to Martin (yikes) and stand around when he was on the floor with the reserves.
Nene needs to play more with the reserves imo and get touches on the block. From the few games i´ve seen at least.

True about Melo needing to be involved consistently (not rocket science really

) but truth be told, he couldn´t handle the ball as frequently as James imo. Good ball handler, highly improved passer but certainly would make it easier to defend the Nuggets if he did, imo. Part of why he is so dangerous is that he doesn´t need the ball all the time and can scorer without stopping the ball first (hope that makes sense) and not presenting a target for trapping/double teaming.

that 4th quarter in the GS-ATL game was indeed pretty absurd, just watched it in replay. Curry was amazing though, the guy will be an amzing NBA Point Guard, definitely has the skills.

TroyF · 02-22-2010, 01:38 PM

I agree about Melo and I understand he shouldn't handle the ball as much as James does. I'm just saying he shouldn't go three to five minutes without a touch and should very rarely go 7 minutes without a shot attempt. (especially when the game is moving in the wrong direction)

I love how media outlets spin events in games. The headline from ESPN on the Nuggets/Celtics game: Nuggets blow 20 point lead, hold on to beat Celtics.

Ok, the line is factual. Yet it's more than a little misleading too. The Nuggets did blow a 20 point lead. The game was actually within a one possession game for about 2 minutes in the third quarter. The Celtics never were within 9 points in the final frame. Great comeback by the Celtics and a fun game to watch, but the Nuggets didn't really "hold on", they just turned the jets back on and cruised.

I agree with you about Curry, he's going to be a great player. I knew he had all of the shots, I was not aware of how good of a passer he'd be. He has a chance to be a very special player.

Sublime 2 · 02-22-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Al Jefferson looks terrible this year btw. Ineffective on offense, atrocious as allways on defense, clearly not fully healthy.
They won´t turn this around with him as their go-to-player.

Do you think this is fully from his injuries?

I'm a Big Al lover from his Boston days, but admit to not watching really any Minny games. However, just looking at his raw stats, it doesn't look like he's playing 'too' poorly. Granted, defensively he'll never be amazing, but I'm surprised by the 'ineffective on offense' comment. He's always been somewhat of a 'blackhole' on offense, is this what mean?

Just wondering what you're seeing.

whomario · 02-22-2010, 02:59 PM

yeah, that´s what i meant.

part of it is the injury but he wasn´t terribly effective prior to that, either (19.5 FGAS for 23 points, only 5 FTAs). Granted, with a better team that would very likely improve. Still, i really don´t see him being a first option to really build around. 2nd option on a good team ? Yeah, fine. But to be the clear go-to guy on offense, i just don´t see it.

Jefferson just needs a lot of support to be effective on offense. Just like Amare but even more extreme. He doesn´t create space at all, is very easy to double team as he really depends on getting the ball in his sweet spots to be effective.
Plus the Wolves try to feed him even if it´s not working. Granted, that´s not really his fault (not Rambis either apparently, yesterday said that he wants the team to look for alternatives but they just can´t make the switch).

A first option post player shouldn´t need 15 shots for 17 points. Of all PF/Cs in the league averaging 14+ points he has the lowest TS% while being in the upper 3rd in terms of USG%.

And watching him (granted on a small sample size, watched 3 full games and few where i browsed through) the above really makes sense. He needs a ton of space to operate, yet really doesn´t punish people inside and takes a lot of fadeaways at an underwhelming clip.
Even last year during his supposed "dominant play". F.e. against Houston he had 38/23 and 34/14, yet the Rockets really didn´t need to adjust much. Didn´t get anyone into foul trouble, needed 30 and 31 shots respectively, had 11 FTs combined.

I dunno, he just doesn´t put a signature on games. Right now he´s pretty comparable to Chris Kaman on offense. Nothing against the Caveman, but you get my point i think.
Plus Jefferson´s energy level is pathetic at times, he´s just not doing anything in terms of leading a team and his defense is really, really, really bad. He doesn´t rotate correctly, overplays trying to block shots, doesn´t move his feet in Pick and Roll situations. Just doesn´t "get it" at that end.
And to let that slide and get big money a player better put up 22,23 with really good efficiency (look under Boozer, Carlos)

whomario · 02-22-2010, 03:07 PM

I´m not at all trying to say he´s a bad player, but he is a) clearly not moving as well as he could (there i have hope for next year with another offseason) and even on top of his game i wouldn´t build around him.

TroyF · 02-22-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

I´m not at all trying to say he´s a bad player, but he is a) clearly not moving as well as he could (there i have hope for next year with another offseason) and even on top of his game i wouldn´t build around him.

Good analysis. I agree, there is zero way you build around him. He could be a decent piece with a good supporting cast, but he's not a superstar.

DeToxRox · 02-22-2010, 03:59 PM

Did anyone see this from Lebron after the Magic game?

Quote:

“I think one thing that hurts me is because of my size and my strength, I feel like I go to the hole just as much as anybody in this league, and sometimes I don’t get the benefit of the calls,” James said. “There were a few times I got grabbed, I got pushed, I got smacked, there were no calls.”

GTFO.

Big Fo · 02-22-2010, 04:14 PM

Now that's just laughable.

Subby · 02-22-2010, 04:32 PM

Random thought - I wonder if anyone ever went back and compiled all of the ridiculous quotes about Durant when he was new to the league. Lots of folks declaring him a bust around these parts if I remember correctly.

Absolutely loving the Thunder!

Groundhog · 02-22-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Random thought - I wonder if anyone ever went back and compiled all of the ridiculous quotes about Durant when he was new to the league. Lots of folks declaring him a bust around these parts if I remember correctly.

Absolutely loving the Thunder!

Well the first half (IIRC) of his rookie season he was being played at SG and wasn't shooting the ball well at all, but as soon as they came to their senses and moved him to the frontcourt he's been spectacular. Not sure who was declaring him a bust as a rookie though, I mean hell, he averaged 20ppg.

RainMaker · 02-22-2010, 04:52 PM

Speaking of Al Jefferson, Bulls offered Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas for him at the deadline.

Radii · 02-22-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Random thought - I wonder if anyone ever went back and compiled all of the ridiculous quotes about Durant when he was new to the league. Lots of folks declaring him a bust around these parts if I remember correctly.

Absolutely loving the Thunder!

I distinctly remember arguing that Oden was a sure thing and Durant may have a higher ceiling but was a much, much bigger risk and that Oden should have been the #1 pick and it should not have been a debate.

WHOOPS.

Groundhog · 02-22-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

I distinctly remember arguing that Oden was a sure thing and Durant may have a higher ceiling but was a much, much bigger risk and that Oden should have been the #1 pick and it should not have been a debate.

WHOOPS.

I believe we had this discussion many pages back in this thread already, but I still say that knowing what we knew back then, Oden was the right pick for Portland. If you had a time machine, obviously you take Durant, but nobody could have realistically predicted Oden's injury woes, and he was beginning to play very well before his latest setback.

RainMaker · 02-22-2010, 07:29 PM

If the Bulls hang on to their 10-point halftime lead against Washington, it'll be 5 in a row and they'll be 22-11 since the report came out that Vinny Del Negro would be fired. This has been done with Noah missing about 9 games in that stretch.

Not saying they will go anywhere in the playoffs, but I have to believe they would be one of the scarier matchups for one of the top 4 to come across. I personally would love to see us get Boston again as I think they are the most beatable of those top 4 teams.

TroyF · 02-22-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Did anyone see this from Lebron after the Magic game?

GTFO.

Lebron averages 1.68 fouls per game. This is despite playing 39 minutes a night. That ranks him 210th in the NBA in fouls per 48 minutes. This is despite him driving as much or more than any SF in the league and playing active defense on a nightly basis.

He can truly STFU.

TroyF · 02-22-2010, 08:34 PM

dola

I read an article on basketball prospectus that tried to justify this by saying Deng also has low fouls per 48. Ummm. . . Deng doesn't handle the ball nearly as much as Lebron. Bron essentially gets about 0 offensive fouls called on him per game. he needs to get a grip.

DaddyTorgo · 02-22-2010, 08:35 PM

seriously

whomario · 02-23-2010, 04:42 AM

Oklahoma has won 9 in a row btw, looking really, really good bet to reach the Playoffs. Don´t want to jinx it, but don´t see them dropping off now.

Phoenix also surging, 8-2 in their last 10

random stat : Steve Nash gets assisted on only 10% of his scores. Paul is at 11%, the next round of players start at 23 %.
James 35%, Kobe 40%, Durant 50%.
Nash still is 2nd among perimeter players for TS%, that´s pretty insane for a scrawny guard who just turned 36.
(Mike Miller is 1st btw shooting 56% from the field and 3, averaging 10 a game. Amazing shooter as well)

Andrey Blatche post All Star/Trade line : 4 games (3W, 1L) 25/10, 60% FG, 85% FT.
I dunno, maybe he really just needs consistent minutes. Haven´t seen him play a ton and while i can see the "inconsistent, mentally weak" thing, the guy still is only 23 years old.

And oh, if that offer of Mayo for Ellis really was on the table the Warriors should have taken it.
That´s how good Curry is allready.
Definitely has a Nash-like quality to his game when it comes to pushing the ball, finding passing angles, keeping his dribble under pressure and being an amazing shooter from anywhere on the floor.
I´m not saying he´s as good a playmaker as Nash or ever will be, but they definitely have similarities.

Put him next to a real SG (well, Mayo is at least close) and he´s going to be even better.

TroyF · 02-23-2010, 12:48 PM

Don't get me started on an Ellis rant. I don't get why so many people love this guy. He's a chucker, he dominates the ball, he's a bad three point shooter, he averages over 4 turnovers a game, he's pathetic in clutch situations, his defense is amongst the worst in the league for his position, every advanced stat says he sucks beyond belief. . . and he makes 11 million dollars a year until 2013.

If the Warriors were offered a bag of balls for the guy, they should have taken it and ran. OJ Mayo? Seriously? This shows both how bad these two organizations are ran when you see one team offered it and the other declined. Pure idiocy.

whomario · 02-23-2010, 02:10 PM

Ellis is kind of the 2010 version of most Allen Iverson seasons. Amazing scorer, great penetrator, a ton of "heart", very competitive, a case of "me against the world" syndrome.
If he had a bunch of well developed hard-playing role players and veteran around him he might just succeed, but him leading a young team ? No, thanks. I´ll take option B, please.

After Ronnie Brewer gets injured after one game with the Grizz (out 3+ weeks) now Josh Howard tears his ACL in his 4th game for the wizzards and is out for at least the rest of the year.
Jesus ...

TroyF · 02-23-2010, 02:53 PM

whomario,

The comparison to AI is good, outside of the "heart" thing. I just don't see that with Monta. I just see a guy who jacks up shots and doesn't draw a lot of fouls.

I'll also throw in that I don't think he could succeed anywhere right now. The only thing he could do would be to have a Vinnie Johnson type of 6th man role somewhere. Problem is he makes too much money and has too big of an ego to do that.

He's a guy I wouldn't want anywhere near the team I cheered for. Too bad Philly couldn't have traded for him just for the comic relief. AI and Ellis in the same backcourt. I'd have paid money to see that.

That said, I can't even laugh at AI now. I hope his daughter is ok.

stevew · 02-23-2010, 04:12 PM

I thought Ellis was crazy efficient about 2 years ago. But I haven't followed him in quite awhile

vex · 02-23-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Westbrook with hist first TD, 22/10/14

His second, actually.

whomario · 02-24-2010, 05:41 AM

Call me crazy, but here goes :

Darko Milicic on a good team would be a highly appreciated player. There, now you can laugh

Another really, really good game yesterday in a win in Miami. Wait, you say, he had 4 points and 2 rebounds with 3 blocks only !! Still, watching the game it was different.
Timberwolves fans are basically shocked and flabbergasted after his first 2 games. Now, the Wolves didn´t have a good defensive big men since Garnett and their last good defensive Center was Rasho Nesterovic (who was allways damn underrated as well), but still.
He really is a very good defender. There´s maybe a handfull of Centers that guard the Pick and Roll that well (much less guys that are like 7´1 and 275) and have that combination of quick feet and shot blocking ability.
And he´s still ways away from being in decent game shape ...

Saw all his minutes a few minutes ago on league pass replay and the guy simply gets it defensively.
The thing is, he doesn´t care about stats. Blocks out rather than crash the boards f.e. Moves the ball on offense instead of forcing it.
On a team deprived for boards and scoring that gets old quick and labeled as passive (his Memphis tenure), while in Orlando it got appreciated. And now he plays next to 2 really good rebounders and scorers that can´t defend all that well (Love, though he is ok a lot) or at all (Jefferson).
O´Neal scored all but 2 of his points on Jefferson last night.
And voila, fans notice it.

I honestly don´t know what Antoni was thinking in New York...

Other than that little fan-post :

Suns beat the Thunder, ending their streak at 9. All that without Nash (his back needed a rest after that road trip) and despite Durant scoirng 36 on 13-24 shooting with only 2 TOs.
Stoudemire with 30/9, Hill 21/9, Richardson 20 and the game winner. Dragic 16 points and 10 assists in nash´s place, nice one.

Kobe comes back with 32/7/6 and the game winner over Memphis.

Cavs win for the first time with Jamison who started in place of Hickson (who went from starter to zero minutes) . Marcus Thornton scored 37 on 15-22 shooting

James 13 assists and zero TOs.

whomario · 02-24-2010, 07:11 AM

Pretty interesting interview with Nowitzki´s personal coach/mentor Holger geschwindner on Dirk´s beginnings and way to the NBA : SLAM ONLINE | » A Boy from Wurzburg

TroyF · 02-24-2010, 09:17 AM

Whomario,

I understand what you are saying about Darko and I agree with part of it. Yet you are still talking about 4 points, 2 rebounds, 0 assists in 25 minutes. Yes, there is such a thing as being unselfish and doing the dirty work. . . but you have to have slightly better numbers than that, don't you?

I'm still pulling for Darko. I also still don't see how he'll ever be anything more than a 9th man back of rotation player in this league.

whomario · 02-24-2010, 10:22 AM

no, you don´t in my book. On a good team or next to a good scorer up front you don´t.
On average, you need to produce better, no doubt. But in that game his intangibles were worth more than had f.e. Hollins played and produced 15/10 with everything else on average for him (defense, boxing out etc). They´d have lost by 15.
The Miami Centers O´Neal and Anthony combined for 2 rebounds when he was on the floor (i counted, slow day...

)
He wasn´t on the floor because of some weird charity-thing but because he made the team better both nights and he wasn´t just taking minutes away from Hollins but Jefferson as well. And rightfully so to boot.
If he could have phyischally he´d have played 30+ minutes both games.

His numbers should improve with conditioning as it is anyway (and he had 8/8 in 20 the night before). It´s not like his per 36 minutes are on a level of Jason Collins in terms of (lack of) production. Not enough for a team lacking scoring punch up front, but next to Jefferson/Love ? I´d believe that 12/8 in 30 with good defense would be more than fine and he can give you that, no doubt in my mind.

Odds are he´ll go to Europe after the season, so discussing his future prospects is lacking pull...

But hey, i´m not trying to convince anyone. Maybe encourage to watch some games though if you have league pass or if they play on national tv this season (well, not likely

)

Interesting listen, his first interview in Minnesota after his first shootarround : http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/medi...OKC_100221.mp3

talks about his frustration without seeming whiny about it, very honest and thoughtfull.

in unrelated news : Marcus Camby goes down with what is hopefully just a mildly sprained ankle. That´s 3 just-traded players down...

Neon_Chaos · 02-24-2010, 11:04 AM

Lakers vs. Mavs tonight.

Too bad Dampier is out. Otherwise, we might see Dallas toy with putting Damp and Haywood in at the same time to combat LA's height and length.

As it is, this match-up against the defending champs should be a good test for them to see if they now have the talent to be a significant force in the West playoffs.

TroyF · 02-24-2010, 12:36 PM

Really? You don't? You don't need more than 4 points and 2 rebounds to be a rotation player in the NBA? Cmon Whomario, you are much smarter than that.

FYI, Miami had 7 offensive rebounds last night and 3 came on one possession.

And no, the TWolves wouldn't have lost by 15 had Hollis played and scored 15 and 10. Miami played without Dwayne Wade.

I don't like getting into a debate about Darko. I really, truly do like the guy. Any interview I've ever heard the guy in makes me like him more.

But lets stop pretending he hasn't had chances. He played 24 minutes a night next to Dwight Howard in 06/07. Orlando, a team that prides itself on having 10 guys who play nightly decided they weren't interested. He played 24 minutes a game the next year with the Grizzlies. He's had chance after chance after chance. What we do see is production on the court that's well below average. What we don't see is how he does in practice, how quickly he picks up offensive plays and how much he wants it.

He's now with his 5th team in 7 years. Were the other four all wrong and don't understand how to evaluate talent? I dunno. I'm not saying they were all right, but I am saying I need to see some sustained production from the guy before I believe he'll ever be anything more than a role player. I'd love to be wrong, I really would.

TroyF · 02-24-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Lakers vs. Mavs tonight.

Too bad Dampier is out. Otherwise, we might see Dallas toy with putting Damp and Haywood in at the same time to combat LA's height and length.

As it is, this match-up against the defending champs should be a good test for them to see if they now have the talent to be a significant force in the West playoffs.

This is one of those scheduling things from above in the thread. I don't know how significant it is if you beat a team who had 3 players play 40 minutes or more the previous night while you got to bed early and were relaxing at home.

This is far more important to Dallas than the Lakers. I fully expect the Mavs to win by 10. If they don't. . . that's a sign of trouble come playoff time.

whomario · 02-24-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Orlando, a team that prides itself on having 10 guys who play nightly decided they weren't interested.

No, Orlando decided they wanted to pay Rashard Lewis 20 mio a year

If not

-I said in a/one game you don´t need more than that if you do everything else right, i very much said you´d need more on average

-Where did i say Miami didn´t have 7 offensive rebounds (which isn´t exactly a lot for a team shooting terrible) ? Their Centers and guys next to Milicic hat 2 on both ends all night is what i said.

- I never said he didn´t have chances, neither did he.

-As said, Orlando just went in a different direction and left him hanging dry because of that financial manouvring to get Lewis. They decided Lewis was their missing piece, fair enough.

I´m not even speaking about the past, i´m purely judging what i´m seeing right now. Which is sth that is making a lot of timberwolves fans question wether to even keep Jefferson with 2 games of 8/8 and 4/2/3. Which is insane in itself but also tells you sth about how much he affected both those games, doesn´t it ?

Again, 95% he goes back to Europe anyway. But allow me to gush a bit for the time being

And for the record : You are propably (95%) right, it´s one of those topics where i choose to be delusional/ignorant/stubborn for my own mental health because of my history endorsing the guy. Some turn on guys that disapoint them, i allways find sth else to endorse i guess

EDIT : About the liking thing, maybe related : You have a guy who has allready decided to go to Europe after the season and tried to be bought out for weeks, and definitely will get great offers over here, that guy gets traded to a terrible team when he is all but fed up about having nothing to play for (a terrible team in europe would have to fight to stay up at least, not have to actually loose for a better draft pick), gets traded for like 2 months left when he has a little son at home . That guy has nothing to gain here from his point of view really. Heck, no one would have been surprised if he hadn´t even reported or tried to get a buy out.
He is also far from being in game shape. And then he comes in, and plays with effort, sets screen after screen, traps every pick and roll, rotates back every time gets out to every shooter.
It just doesn´t "fit" with that situation and that´s what caught my (and the Timberwolves fans) eye really. I just can´t not appreciate that.

I promise to dial the PDA down a bit though

Groundhog · 02-24-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Cavs win for the first time with Jamison who started in place of Hickson (who went from starter to zero minutes) . Marcus Thornton scored 37 on 15-22 shooting

James 13 assists and zero TOs.

Hickson had the flu and was a game-time decision with or without Jamison, but I wouldn't be surprised if he logs some DNP-CDs this season. The Cavs were trying to do what Toronto has done wth DeRozan by starting him so he's assured some minutes regardless of how the game goes. He's got potential and in another couple of seasons could be a solid PF, but right now the Cavs best 2 PFs are Jamison and V.

Marcus Thornton has proved a hell of a steal ever since the coaching change, and Darren Collison hasn't looked too shabby either.

whomario · 02-24-2010, 04:25 PM

thanks for the info, missed that while skimming over the web this morning. Wouldn´t surprise me either if he gets demoted, it´s just how it is. Especially when Z comes back, then there no way he plays more than spot minutes unless it´s an unfavourable matchup at Center for Shaq/Z and Varejao slides over for extended stretches.

TroyF · 02-24-2010, 04:42 PM

whomario,

Preaching to the choir. I do like Darko and want to see him succeed. And he is a good guy. I'm just not ready to fall in love with him after two games in a TWolves uniform. I still don't understand the Wolves reluctence to deal Jefferson at the deadline.

For that matter, I don't understand a lot of teams. Washington paid out the nose to be mediocre for 4 straight seasons. The Warriors don't want to part with any of their "assets" when they are 16-40. Jefferson, even with his average play this year, had value. If he continues to suck, that value goes bye bye. I just don't get it.

Now, I really, really like Kevin Love. The guy can play. Jefferson? Not so much.

Groundhog · 02-24-2010, 04:57 PM

One surprising thing about the TWolves this season for me has been Corey Brewer. I'd pretty much written him off as a blown lottery pick, but looks like the guy can play and, most surprisingly of all, can shoot the ball a little now.

whomario · 02-24-2010, 05:25 PM

He´s just sepctacular when he gets to play on the move, really has true guard-speed at right about 6´9. And yeah, his jump shot finally deserves that name.

Also seemingly every game he and Love team up for a breathtaking QB/WR connection, last night again after a made FT by Miami.

Speaking of those long outlet passes by Love : You can´t realistically gameplan with that, but it´s still an amazing ability he brings to the table and is good for a couple baskets every night as a hockey assist at least.

another guy where i still think he´ll be a really good nba player for a few years : Dorrell Wright. Yeah i know that i propably caught him on his best game in like ever, but i really liked his play in the 06/07 season and that combination of length and athleticism simply is still there and now he developed a 3 point Jump Shot over the summer.

Groundhog · 02-24-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario

Speaking of those long outlet passes by Love : You can´t realistically gameplan with that, but it´s still an amazing ability he brings to the table and is good for a couple baskets every night as a hockey assist at least.

For sure. One of my best mates was a pretty amazing PF back in our high school basketball days, and he had this skill down too. Whenever the other team scored he was tearing the ball out of the bottom of the net, then looking for the long outlet pass from the inbound, while me or the other guard on the team was sprinting down court, every chance. Might only get 2 or 3 opportunities a game to pull it off (especially after completing it once), but man is it frustrating for the other team to have to work the ball around and put in 20-30 seconds of offense to score a basket, only to have us reply in under 5 seconds.

Chief Rum · 02-25-2010, 01:45 AM

Okay, so Gooden was pretty good tonight with the Clips. Someone who knows give me a rundown on why he sucks so much. Is it inconsistency?

whomario · 02-25-2010, 02:40 AM

He is not a bad basketball player, just not good enough for the way he plays. If that makes any sense. He doesn´t usually complement anyone on the court.
Plus he can´t defend big guys, is too slow laterally to defend smaller guys, doesn´t rotate well or blocks shots, is a terrible passer and needs to be set up to score. Dóesn´t have the handles to take big guys off the dribble and isn´t a good enough post scorer to overpower smaller guys.
He does get his but it doesn´t force the other team to adjust at all. And if they double him once in a while he can´t pass.

He managed a -8.5 with the Spurs last year, 6 teams in 8 years and in all but one season he was in the bottom 2 among rotation players in +- (Larry hughes and czezary trybanski were worse at one time) , that is just an unbelievable "streak"

He´s likely not a bad guy and doesn´t pack it in or anything, but he just gives effort at all the wrong moments and the results ...

whomario · 02-25-2010, 03:21 AM

Manu Ginobili with an all-world defensive play on Durant :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm9Y-vqZsEo

whoa

also 26/9/4 and overall a strong month of february, glad he starts playing better

stevew · 02-25-2010, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, so Gooden was pretty good tonight with the Clips. Someone who knows give me a rundown on why he sucks so much. Is it inconsistency?

Just watch like 5 games, look at all the dumb ass stuff he does. He can't rotate on defense. He doesn't block shots. His offense is nothing to speak of. Honestly maybe it's just his demeanor at times, and his inability to grasp what the fuck is going on around him, that make him look like a dumbass.

RainMaker · 02-25-2010, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, so Gooden was pretty good tonight with the Clips. Someone who knows give me a rundown on why he sucks so much. Is it inconsistency?

Gooden is a good offensive player. He can give you 20 points every so often. Problem is that he kills the flow of most offenses. He's a bad passer who is always looking for his own shot.

Defensively, he can be average at times but doesn't seem like he has a lot of motivation to do so. He doesn't seem to put much effort in and has brain farts all the time.

The sad thing is that he will give you a 20-10 night once in awhile and you'll think that he can be a nice piece. But he'll shit on himself for the next two games and play like he doesn't care. I have no doubt that if he had a stronger work ethic and passion for the sport, he could be an All-Star. But by watching him play in person for a year, it always just seemed like he'd rather be somewhere else.

TroyF · 02-25-2010, 02:42 PM

Just to echo what others have said. . . Gooden is a black hole on offense and he gives very little effort at the defensive end. He's always been a guy that looks really good the first time you watch him play. You see him again and see a few warts but still think he's a decent enough player. By the 8th time you've seen him, you are cussing the coach out for putting him in the game.

One thing he's always done very well is offensive rebounding. He's always been great at that part of the game.

sterlingice · 02-25-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Just to echo what others have said. . . Gooden is a black hole on offense and he gives very little effort at the defensive end. He's always been a guy that looks really good the first time you watch him play. You see him again and see a few warts but still think he's a decent enough player. By the 8th time you've seen him, you are cussing the coach out for putting him in the game.

One thing he's always done very well is offensive rebounding. He's always been great at that part of the game.

Here's my Gooden post:
Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

SI

Neuqua · 02-25-2010, 04:28 PM

Gooden has less basketball IQ than any basketball player I have ever seen, and I've been watching the NBA all my life.

whomario · 02-25-2010, 04:32 PM

boy, if the aliens ever abduct him and send him back clever, our faces are going to look sooooo red

02-22-2010, 03:23 AM	#1153
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Denver looked impressive yesterday in stretches, but also looked very predictable without Billups on the floor. JR Smith is still walking on a thin line between explosive scorer and erratic chucker ... This just in : Darko Milicic looked like a pretty decent NBA player. A way out of shape NBA player, but good nonetheless ... 8 points, 8 boards, nice passing and good defense and being on the court over Jefferson in the final minutes ... No coincidence he was a +35 in a 2 point loss. Allow me to gloat for a few minutes Fully expect that to be false hope though ... I just don´t get it. The huy is huge, still pretty mobile (even the out-of-shape version), has good footwork making him a pretty damn good Pick and Roll defender, is also a good man defender, blocks shots, can Post up and shoot from 15 feet. I want him to get it together, now. He needs to channel is anger in turn it into positive energy for once (seriously, every time you see his face the guy looks like he´s about to go on a killing spree within seconds). Al Jefferson looks terrible this year btw. Ineffective on offense, atrocious as allways on defense, clearly not fully healthy. They won´t turn this around with him as their go-to-player. For the Thunder Durant with just another day at the office, 32 Points on 16 FGAs, 12 in the last 2 minutes... Westbrook with hist first TD, 22/10/14. GS beats Atlanta, Steph Curry 32 points with just 1 three. His midrange game is much better than expected. Last edited by whomario : 02-22-2010 at 04:29 AM.

02-22-2010, 12:51 PM	#1155
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	@ TroyF : That was kinda what i meant to say, should have connected my sentences better propably All they do is give the ball to Smith and stand around. Or worse : give the ball to Martin (yikes) and stand around when he was on the floor with the reserves. Nene needs to play more with the reserves imo and get touches on the block. From the few games i´ve seen at least. True about Melo needing to be involved consistently (not rocket science really ) but truth be told, he couldn´t handle the ball as frequently as James imo. Good ball handler, highly improved passer but certainly would make it easier to defend the Nuggets if he did, imo. Part of why he is so dangerous is that he doesn´t need the ball all the time and can scorer without stopping the ball first (hope that makes sense) and not presenting a target for trapping/double teaming. that 4th quarter in the GS-ATL game was indeed pretty absurd, just watched it in replay. Curry was amazing though, the guy will be an amzing NBA Point Guard, definitely has the skills. Last edited by whomario : 02-22-2010 at 12:54 PM.

02-22-2010, 02:59 PM	#1158
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	yeah, that´s what i meant. part of it is the injury but he wasn´t terribly effective prior to that, either (19.5 FGAS for 23 points, only 5 FTAs). Granted, with a better team that would very likely improve. Still, i really don´t see him being a first option to really build around. 2nd option on a good team ? Yeah, fine. But to be the clear go-to guy on offense, i just don´t see it. Jefferson just needs a lot of support to be effective on offense. Just like Amare but even more extreme. He doesn´t create space at all, is very easy to double team as he really depends on getting the ball in his sweet spots to be effective. Plus the Wolves try to feed him even if it´s not working. Granted, that´s not really his fault (not Rambis either apparently, yesterday said that he wants the team to look for alternatives but they just can´t make the switch). A first option post player shouldn´t need 15 shots for 17 points. Of all PF/Cs in the league averaging 14+ points he has the lowest TS% while being in the upper 3rd in terms of USG%. And watching him (granted on a small sample size, watched 3 full games and few where i browsed through) the above really makes sense. He needs a ton of space to operate, yet really doesn´t punish people inside and takes a lot of fadeaways at an underwhelming clip. Even last year during his supposed "dominant play". F.e. against Houston he had 38/23 and 34/14, yet the Rockets really didn´t need to adjust much. Didn´t get anyone into foul trouble, needed 30 and 31 shots respectively, had 11 FTs combined. I dunno, he just doesn´t put a signature on games. Right now he´s pretty comparable to Chris Kaman on offense. Nothing against the Caveman, but you get my point i think. Plus Jefferson´s energy level is pathetic at times, he´s just not doing anything in terms of leading a team and his defense is really, really, really bad. He doesn´t rotate correctly, overplays trying to block shots, doesn´t move his feet in Pick and Roll situations. Just doesn´t "get it" at that end. And to let that slide and get big money a player better put up 22,23 with really good efficiency (look under Boozer, Carlos) Last edited by whomario : 02-22-2010 at 03:05 PM.

02-22-2010, 04:32 PM	#1163
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Random thought - I wonder if anyone ever went back and compiled all of the ridiculous quotes about Durant when he was new to the league. Lots of folks declaring him a bust around these parts if I remember correctly. Absolutely loving the Thunder! __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

02-22-2010, 08:35 PM	#1171
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	seriously __________________ If I've ever helped you and you'd like to buy me a coffee, or just to say thanks, I have my Bitcoin and Ethereum addressed listed below :) BTC: bc1qykhsfyn9vw4ntqfgr0svj4n9tjdgufryh2pxn5 ETH: 0x2AcdC5cd88EA537063553F5b240073bE067BaCa9

02-22-2010, 11:08 AM	#1154
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	whomario, Lawson is still playing well, but he's become way too unselfish. When he's attacking the basket, the second unit is 100% different than when he's throwing the ball to JR and getting out of the way. I hope the coaching staff encourages him to go into attack mode more frequently. FWIW, I thought Chauncey played very poorly for most of the third quarter of the Nuggets/Celtics game. Melo was a bystander for a big part of the third quarter. Carmelo didn't take a shot for the first 7 minutes of the quarter. I think ball handling is the main seperator between Melo and Bron. Bron never has to go 7 minutes without taking a shot, because he's got the ball every possession. Melo will sometimes go three to seven minutes without a touch. While there is no way Melo could/should handle the ball as much as Bron, he should also very, very rarely go 7 minutes without a shot attempt. JR always, and I mean always walks that line. The key with him is for GK to watch when he's on and off and adjust his minutes accordingly. He catches fire, he should play 35 minutes. He goes cold, he should play about 20. The mistake is when he's cold and GK plays him for 27 minutes. He kills Denver when he's like that and gets minutes. Have to hand it to Utah. I really thought they'd tail off right after the break. Instead they keep winning. Horrible loss for the Blazers last night. As for that Golden State game, look at that final quarter. 35-14. Yikes. Hawks will be kicking themselves for that loss and now have to go to Utah tonight.

02-22-2010, 01:38 PM	#1156
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I agree about Melo and I understand he shouldn't handle the ball as much as James does. I'm just saying he shouldn't go three to five minutes without a touch and should very rarely go 7 minutes without a shot attempt. (especially when the game is moving in the wrong direction) I love how media outlets spin events in games. The headline from ESPN on the Nuggets/Celtics game: Nuggets blow 20 point lead, hold on to beat Celtics. Ok, the line is factual. Yet it's more than a little misleading too. The Nuggets did blow a 20 point lead. The game was actually within a one possession game for about 2 minutes in the third quarter. The Celtics never were within 9 points in the final frame. Great comeback by the Celtics and a fun game to watch, but the Nuggets didn't really "hold on", they just turned the jets back on and cruised. I agree with you about Curry, he's going to be a great player. I knew he had all of the shots, I was not aware of how good of a passer he'd be. He has a chance to be a very special player.

02-22-2010, 03:07 PM	#1159
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	I´m not at all trying to say he´s a bad player, but he is a) clearly not moving as well as he could (there i have hope for next year with another offseason) and even on top of his game i wouldn´t build around him.

02-22-2010, 04:14 PM	#1162
Big Fo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005	Now that's just laughable.

02-22-2010, 04:52 PM	#1165
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Speaking of Al Jefferson, Bulls offered Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas for him at the deadline.

02-22-2010, 07:29 PM	#1168
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	If the Bulls hang on to their 10-point halftime lead against Washington, it'll be 5 in a row and they'll be 22-11 since the report came out that Vinny Del Negro would be fired. This has been done with Noah missing about 9 games in that stretch. Not saying they will go anywhere in the playoffs, but I have to believe they would be one of the scarier matchups for one of the top 4 to come across. I personally would love to see us get Boston again as I think they are the most beatable of those top 4 teams.

02-22-2010, 08:34 PM	#1170
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	dola I read an article on basketball prospectus that tried to justify this by saying Deng also has low fouls per 48. Ummm. . . Deng doesn't handle the ball nearly as much as Lebron. Bron essentially gets about 0 offensive fouls called on him per game. he needs to get a grip.

02-23-2010, 04:42 AM	#1172
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Oklahoma has won 9 in a row btw, looking really, really good bet to reach the Playoffs. Don´t want to jinx it, but don´t see them dropping off now. Phoenix also surging, 8-2 in their last 10 random stat : Steve Nash gets assisted on only 10% of his scores. Paul is at 11%, the next round of players start at 23 %. James 35%, Kobe 40%, Durant 50%. Nash still is 2nd among perimeter players for TS%, that´s pretty insane for a scrawny guard who just turned 36. (Mike Miller is 1st btw shooting 56% from the field and 3, averaging 10 a game. Amazing shooter as well) Andrey Blatche post All Star/Trade line : 4 games (3W, 1L) 25/10, 60% FG, 85% FT. I dunno, maybe he really just needs consistent minutes. Haven´t seen him play a ton and while i can see the "inconsistent, mentally weak" thing, the guy still is only 23 years old. And oh, if that offer of Mayo for Ellis really was on the table the Warriors should have taken it. That´s how good Curry is allready. Definitely has a Nash-like quality to his game when it comes to pushing the ball, finding passing angles, keeping his dribble under pressure and being an amazing shooter from anywhere on the floor. I´m not saying he´s as good a playmaker as Nash or ever will be, but they definitely have similarities. Put him next to a real SG (well, Mayo is at least close) and he´s going to be even better. Last edited by whomario : 02-23-2010 at 05:13 AM.

02-23-2010, 12:48 PM	#1173
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Don't get me started on an Ellis rant. I don't get why so many people love this guy. He's a chucker, he dominates the ball, he's a bad three point shooter, he averages over 4 turnovers a game, he's pathetic in clutch situations, his defense is amongst the worst in the league for his position, every advanced stat says he sucks beyond belief. . . and he makes 11 million dollars a year until 2013. If the Warriors were offered a bag of balls for the guy, they should have taken it and ran. OJ Mayo? Seriously? This shows both how bad these two organizations are ran when you see one team offered it and the other declined. Pure idiocy.

02-23-2010, 02:10 PM	#1174
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Ellis is kind of the 2010 version of most Allen Iverson seasons. Amazing scorer, great penetrator, a ton of "heart", very competitive, a case of "me against the world" syndrome. If he had a bunch of well developed hard-playing role players and veteran around him he might just succeed, but him leading a young team ? No, thanks. I´ll take option B, please. After Ronnie Brewer gets injured after one game with the Grizz (out 3+ weeks) now Josh Howard tears his ACL in his 4th game for the wizzards and is out for at least the rest of the year. Jesus ...

02-23-2010, 02:53 PM	#1175
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	whomario, The comparison to AI is good, outside of the "heart" thing. I just don't see that with Monta. I just see a guy who jacks up shots and doesn't draw a lot of fouls. I'll also throw in that I don't think he could succeed anywhere right now. The only thing he could do would be to have a Vinnie Johnson type of 6th man role somewhere. Problem is he makes too much money and has too big of an ego to do that. He's a guy I wouldn't want anywhere near the team I cheered for. Too bad Philly couldn't have traded for him just for the comic relief. AI and Ellis in the same backcourt. I'd have paid money to see that. That said, I can't even laugh at AI now. I hope his daughter is ok.

02-23-2010, 04:12 PM	#1176
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I thought Ellis was crazy efficient about 2 years ago. But I haven't followed him in quite awhile

02-24-2010, 05:41 AM	#1178
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Call me crazy, but here goes : Darko Milicic on a good team would be a highly appreciated player. There, now you can laugh Another really, really good game yesterday in a win in Miami. Wait, you say, he had 4 points and 2 rebounds with 3 blocks only !! Still, watching the game it was different. Timberwolves fans are basically shocked and flabbergasted after his first 2 games. Now, the Wolves didn´t have a good defensive big men since Garnett and their last good defensive Center was Rasho Nesterovic (who was allways damn underrated as well), but still. He really is a very good defender. There´s maybe a handfull of Centers that guard the Pick and Roll that well (much less guys that are like 7´1 and 275) and have that combination of quick feet and shot blocking ability. And he´s still ways away from being in decent game shape ... Saw all his minutes a few minutes ago on league pass replay and the guy simply gets it defensively. The thing is, he doesn´t care about stats. Blocks out rather than crash the boards f.e. Moves the ball on offense instead of forcing it. On a team deprived for boards and scoring that gets old quick and labeled as passive (his Memphis tenure), while in Orlando it got appreciated. And now he plays next to 2 really good rebounders and scorers that can´t defend all that well (Love, though he is ok a lot) or at all (Jefferson). O´Neal scored all but 2 of his points on Jefferson last night. And voila, fans notice it. I honestly don´t know what Antoni was thinking in New York... Other than that little fan-post : Suns beat the Thunder, ending their streak at 9. All that without Nash (his back needed a rest after that road trip) and despite Durant scoirng 36 on 13-24 shooting with only 2 TOs. Stoudemire with 30/9, Hill 21/9, Richardson 20 and the game winner. Dragic 16 points and 10 assists in nash´s place, nice one. Kobe comes back with 32/7/6 and the game winner over Memphis. Cavs win for the first time with Jamison who started in place of Hickson (who went from starter to zero minutes) . Marcus Thornton scored 37 on 15-22 shooting James 13 assists and zero TOs. Last edited by whomario : 02-24-2010 at 05:55 AM.

02-24-2010, 07:11 AM	#1179
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Pretty interesting interview with Nowitzki´s personal coach/mentor Holger geschwindner on Dirk´s beginnings and way to the NBA : SLAM ONLINE \| » A Boy from Wurzburg

02-24-2010, 09:17 AM	#1180
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Whomario, I understand what you are saying about Darko and I agree with part of it. Yet you are still talking about 4 points, 2 rebounds, 0 assists in 25 minutes. Yes, there is such a thing as being unselfish and doing the dirty work. . . but you have to have slightly better numbers than that, don't you? I'm still pulling for Darko. I also still don't see how he'll ever be anything more than a 9th man back of rotation player in this league.

02-24-2010, 10:22 AM	#1181
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	no, you don´t in my book. On a good team or next to a good scorer up front you don´t. On average, you need to produce better, no doubt. But in that game his intangibles were worth more than had f.e. Hollins played and produced 15/10 with everything else on average for him (defense, boxing out etc). They´d have lost by 15. The Miami Centers O´Neal and Anthony combined for 2 rebounds when he was on the floor (i counted, slow day... ) He wasn´t on the floor because of some weird charity-thing but because he made the team better both nights and he wasn´t just taking minutes away from Hollins but Jefferson as well. And rightfully so to boot. If he could have phyischally he´d have played 30+ minutes both games. His numbers should improve with conditioning as it is anyway (and he had 8/8 in 20 the night before). It´s not like his per 36 minutes are on a level of Jason Collins in terms of (lack of) production. Not enough for a team lacking scoring punch up front, but next to Jefferson/Love ? I´d believe that 12/8 in 30 with good defense would be more than fine and he can give you that, no doubt in my mind. Odds are he´ll go to Europe after the season, so discussing his future prospects is lacking pull... But hey, i´m not trying to convince anyone. Maybe encourage to watch some games though if you have league pass or if they play on national tv this season (well, not likely ) Interesting listen, his first interview in Minnesota after his first shootarround : http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/medi...OKC_100221.mp3 talks about his frustration without seeming whiny about it, very honest and thoughtfull. in unrelated news : Marcus Camby goes down with what is hopefully just a mildly sprained ankle. That´s 3 just-traded players down... Last edited by whomario : 02-24-2010 at 10:36 AM.

02-24-2010, 11:04 AM	#1182
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Lakers vs. Mavs tonight. Too bad Dampier is out. Otherwise, we might see Dallas toy with putting Damp and Haywood in at the same time to combat LA's height and length. As it is, this match-up against the defending champs should be a good test for them to see if they now have the talent to be a significant force in the West playoffs. __________________ Come and see.

02-24-2010, 12:36 PM	#1183
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Really? You don't? You don't need more than 4 points and 2 rebounds to be a rotation player in the NBA? Cmon Whomario, you are much smarter than that. FYI, Miami had 7 offensive rebounds last night and 3 came on one possession. And no, the TWolves wouldn't have lost by 15 had Hollis played and scored 15 and 10. Miami played without Dwayne Wade. I don't like getting into a debate about Darko. I really, truly do like the guy. Any interview I've ever heard the guy in makes me like him more. But lets stop pretending he hasn't had chances. He played 24 minutes a night next to Dwight Howard in 06/07. Orlando, a team that prides itself on having 10 guys who play nightly decided they weren't interested. He played 24 minutes a game the next year with the Grizzlies. He's had chance after chance after chance. What we do see is production on the court that's well below average. What we don't see is how he does in practice, how quickly he picks up offensive plays and how much he wants it. He's now with his 5th team in 7 years. Were the other four all wrong and don't understand how to evaluate talent? I dunno. I'm not saying they were all right, but I am saying I need to see some sustained production from the guy before I believe he'll ever be anything more than a role player. I'd love to be wrong, I really would.

02-24-2010, 04:25 PM	#1187
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	thanks for the info, missed that while skimming over the web this morning. Wouldn´t surprise me either if he gets demoted, it´s just how it is. Especially when Z comes back, then there no way he plays more than spot minutes unless it´s an unfavourable matchup at Center for Shaq/Z and Varejao slides over for extended stretches.

02-24-2010, 04:42 PM	#1188
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	whomario, Preaching to the choir. I do like Darko and want to see him succeed. And he is a good guy. I'm just not ready to fall in love with him after two games in a TWolves uniform. I still don't understand the Wolves reluctence to deal Jefferson at the deadline. For that matter, I don't understand a lot of teams. Washington paid out the nose to be mediocre for 4 straight seasons. The Warriors don't want to part with any of their "assets" when they are 16-40. Jefferson, even with his average play this year, had value. If he continues to suck, that value goes bye bye. I just don't get it. Now, I really, really like Kevin Love. The guy can play. Jefferson? Not so much.

02-24-2010, 04:57 PM	#1189
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	One surprising thing about the TWolves this season for me has been Corey Brewer. I'd pretty much written him off as a blown lottery pick, but looks like the guy can play and, most surprisingly of all, can shoot the ball a little now. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

02-24-2010, 05:25 PM	#1190
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	He´s just sepctacular when he gets to play on the move, really has true guard-speed at right about 6´9. And yeah, his jump shot finally deserves that name. Also seemingly every game he and Love team up for a breathtaking QB/WR connection, last night again after a made FT by Miami. Speaking of those long outlet passes by Love : You can´t realistically gameplan with that, but it´s still an amazing ability he brings to the table and is good for a couple baskets every night as a hockey assist at least. another guy where i still think he´ll be a really good nba player for a few years : Dorrell Wright. Yeah i know that i propably caught him on his best game in like ever, but i really liked his play in the 06/07 season and that combination of length and athleticism simply is still there and now he developed a 3 point Jump Shot over the summer.

02-25-2010, 01:45 AM	#1192
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Okay, so Gooden was pretty good tonight with the Clips. Someone who knows give me a rundown on why he sucks so much. Is it inconsistency? __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

02-25-2010, 02:40 AM	#1193
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	He is not a bad basketball player, just not good enough for the way he plays. If that makes any sense. He doesn´t usually complement anyone on the court. Plus he can´t defend big guys, is too slow laterally to defend smaller guys, doesn´t rotate well or blocks shots, is a terrible passer and needs to be set up to score. Dóesn´t have the handles to take big guys off the dribble and isn´t a good enough post scorer to overpower smaller guys. He does get his but it doesn´t force the other team to adjust at all. And if they double him once in a while he can´t pass. He managed a -8.5 with the Spurs last year, 6 teams in 8 years and in all but one season he was in the bottom 2 among rotation players in +- (Larry hughes and czezary trybanski were worse at one time) , that is just an unbelievable "streak" He´s likely not a bad guy and doesn´t pack it in or anything, but he just gives effort at all the wrong moments and the results ... Last edited by whomario : 02-25-2010 at 03:40 AM.

02-25-2010, 03:21 AM	#1194
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Manu Ginobili with an all-world defensive play on Durant : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm9Y-vqZsEo whoa also 26/9/4 and overall a strong month of february, glad he starts playing better

02-25-2010, 02:42 PM	#1197
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Just to echo what others have said. . . Gooden is a black hole on offense and he gives very little effort at the defensive end. He's always been a guy that looks really good the first time you watch him play. You see him again and see a few warts but still think he's a decent enough player. By the 8th time you've seen him, you are cussing the coach out for putting him in the game. One thing he's always done very well is offensive rebounding. He's always been great at that part of the game.

02-25-2010, 04:28 PM	#1199
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	Gooden has less basketball IQ than any basketball player I have ever seen, and I've been watching the NBA all my life. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

02-25-2010, 04:32 PM	#1200
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	boy, if the aliens ever abduct him and send him back clever, our faces are going to look sooooo red

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)