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#1151 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Pelosi didn't exactly give Biden a ringing endorsement this morning
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#1152 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2020
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Something something pot and kettle
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#1153 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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It feels like they're all playing a weird game. They can't call Biden out because they fear retaliation and scorn from the establishment. But they also know when he loses in November, the floodgates are going to open and so many bad stories are going to come out about his condition from staffers that they sort of want to position themselves as not too supportive.
At this point it seems like their best option is to move on to trying to save what they can of the Senate and House. Polls look incredibly good for them in those areas but Biden is going to drag down that whole ticket so saving what they can should be a priority. Then again, maybe they find it easier to be in the minority. |
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#1154 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Supposedly the recent internal Dem polling is incredibly bad so that's why you're going to see some politicians distance themselves. I'm sure New York has narrowed a lot, but I highly doubt it's in play. Seems more that people in vulnerable House districts are just asking for help because Biden is dragging them down.
Just a moment... |
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#1155 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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All because of the hubris of a feeble old man.
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#1156 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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I was just going to say that I saw something about NY possibly moving toward a toss-up. Jesus.
What's happening with the Dems on this issue is the same as the way the GOP has given way to Trump to the extent that the party and process has proven to be much more important than doing what's right/necessary for the country. Except the crucial difference is that for the GOP, Trumpism drives votes (at least for Trump himself) whereas the Dems are falling in line behind a guy bleeding support. Now, it's certainly not good or fair or right (or whatever way you want to characterize it) that a convicted felon, twice-impeached, civilly adjudged rapist, would-be authoritarian and all-around POS like Trump appears impervious to losing enough support to imperil his campaign, while Biden's issues are brought on by Father Time (through no fault of his own), but... here we are.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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#1157 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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I'm gonna just ignore the rest of the stuff & focus on one particularly important point that I'm pretty sure you're overlooking: you just hit on one of the primary (conscious & sub-conscious) appealing points for many Trump voters. Many of us want someone who is willing to use their power for good ... and you're badly overlooking just how much many of us look forward -- more than just about anything honestly, or certainly at least equal to -- to seeing a very large stick used 'bout the head & shoulders of what we see as some of the worst people to ever step foot on the planet. That authoritarian thing? That's a plus, not a minus.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#1158 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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I completely understand that, comrade.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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#1159 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
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It's been too long I forget who all the "worst people" are.
Is my non-binary kid one of these worst people? Their mixed-girlfriend? That's what I want to know. (Pretty sure I know what others under that authoritarian umbrella think.)
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#1160 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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It's whomever they decide to hate at whatever point they have the power/authority to [deport/punish/imprison/kill] those people. You know, making American great again, and all that jazz.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 07-10-2024 at 01:43 PM. |
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#1161 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
And you're not afraid that a person given that power will abuse that power? Especially a felon who has also been found civilly liable for sexual abuse. Not to mention that sham university he ran. Oh and he let a mob ransack the capitol violating his presidential oath. But I'm sure things will turn out fine. I really wish both parties weren't dumpster fires right now.
__________________
"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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#1162 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Here's the thing; one of the implied effects of authoritarianism is the people putting him in office losing that voice - if actual authoritarianism happens. I know you personally have made a number of statements over the years about some of things we've lost as a nation, the republican structure of the government, the importance of those distinctions, etc. If modern conservatives have reached the point where they just think we need a king, they should just come out and say that, that they want to abolish what remains of the Constitution, shred the thing and 'start over', whatever that means. What you can't have is as any concept of maintaining our present freedoms and institutions and that kind of thing also. You have to pick one or the other. |
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#1163 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Jon's totally fine shredding the Constitution and starting over with a dictator. He's been very clear that he favors that over democracy.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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#1164 | ||
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Then what's the point of the angst about third parties? If we are going to dismiss the idea of some voters changing their behavior, why not say that about all voters? What gives us the right to apply a special standard to those specific voters? Quote:
I don't expect it to happen either, but I reject the categorization as theory. It's a 100%, demonstrable-by-logic possibility. If you really fully take the idea that people are just going to do what they have done and it's not gonna change no matter what, it would seem to me the rational thing would be to advocate for a complete change in form of government because we can't expect people to make a reasonable choice on their own behalf. Last edited by Brian Swartz : 07-10-2024 at 02:29 PM. |
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#1165 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Rob Reiner and Clooney both calling for Biden to step aside. This is snowballing fast.
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#1166 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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#1167 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Clooney I guess saw him recently at an event and said he was pretty much cooked mentally. Did see Fetterman threaten his wife for it which shows how much Dems take any dissent in the party. |
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#1168 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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#1169 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PDX
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We've been waiting for 20 years for Jon to define any of the things and/or people that he insists are ruining his life. The fact that he can't or won't should speak for how serious those concerns are.
__________________
Last edited by thesloppy : Today at 05:35 PM. |
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#1170 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
We're not dealing with that abuse already? C'mon. Some good old fashioned political persecution would be nothing more than overdue payback. Quote:
I'm pretty sure you could find me saying that democracy has been proven to be a failed experiment. If not, feel free to consider this as that very thing. I'm not alone in that frankly, I'm just more okay with saying it aloud than most.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#1171 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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Quote:
One time the immigrant door dash driver forgot his fries when he ordered five guys. |
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#1172 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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Kamala needs to step up. It’s time to take the presidency
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#1173 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Quote:
Once again - you are using terms like logical and rational as if because that's the case, it necessarily follows that people will do the rational/logic thing. And I'm saying, the only thing that's stopping people from doing that is... human nature! That makes it a quaint/naive theory or whatever terminology doesn't offend you. Everyone getting the Covid jab was a 100% demonstrable-by-logic possibility, too. We saw how that went.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 07-10-2024 at 05:11 PM. |
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#1174 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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History shows that people who clamor for authoritarianism think they'll be the boot, but end up just licking it before getting stomped out by it.
Any authoritarian regime would be focused strictly on benefiting a select few people financially. They do not plan to associate with most of the public and they don't really care about the silly culture wars. And they sure as shit aren't deporting millions and fucking over big business that call the shots anyway. There's a reason both sides have nearly identical views on immigration now but refuse to pass anything. |
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#1175 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
No I'm not. I'm talking about how to assess the situation, not in any way expecting people to necessarily behave rationally. I once again invite you to answer the question I opened my last post with; why are we singling out third-party voters if voters are just gonna do what voters are gonna do anyway? |
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#1176 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
No, we aren't at all dealing with that, and the point is as RainMaker points out that you can't control an authoritarian regime; it is very likely to be authoritarian in ways you don't want, and contrary to the interests you want to put it in place for (regardless of what those are). That's just ... how that kind of thing works. Regardless, thanks for clarifying your views on our current system. It's the opposite of many things I've seen you say in the past, so I'll try to keep that in mind in the future. |
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#1177 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Quote:
I don't understand the question. I'm not "singling out" anyone. I was simply pointing out that a certain small percent of the electorate do vote 3rd party, but not in any ways that are cohesive or are useful to transform our system into a 3+ party system. The remainder - the vast majority of voters - automatically default to either/or D and R.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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#1178 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Then we hardly have any common ground to base much conversation on I'm afraid. And I'm not even a Trump guy to the extent I would have voted for him in the primary. Had zero intention of doing so, did not do so, and said freely before the field was eliminated that I hoped he'd stand down for someone better. So if we're that far apart, just imagine the disconnect that exists between what you said there and genuinely enthusiastic Trump voters.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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#1179 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
How else would you transform the country away from a 2-party system that doesn't involve voting for 3rd parties? |
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#1180 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Much like for the white Christian nationalists, Trump is just the conduit I assume. I mean, yes, there are some people who truly believe he's some sort of savior, but for a lot of more practical people who want to transform this country into something it's never been (which is why the MAGA thing is so ironic), I assume it's just a transactional affinity.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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#1181 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Quote:
Voting for 3rd parties in the way we do now does nothing to transform our system. Hence, we're still a 2-party system despite the 3rd party options we've had for decades that attract a miniscule number of voters every year. You need real options - parties that attract mainstream voters away from R and D in large numbers - and that has to start with people who would otherwise be identified as R or D breaking off and creating viable party options. The only notable 3rd party to put a dent in the popular vote in the past 100 years was Ross Perot, and he wasn't a party, he was a personality. We haven't come close to trying to replicate a European-style multi-party electoral system. The people apparently don't want it, and R/D certain don't want any other competition.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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#1182 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
So how do you do it? How do voters who want more than 2 shitty choices put pressure on the system? Because voting seems like the best way. Yeah their candidate won't win, but it's a way for the other 2 parties to not ignore them. And I disagree on Perot being just a personality. His platform was centered around issues that the other two parties had come to a consensus on (free trade, deficit spending, corruption, direct democracy). Those were important issues to some voters at the time and he was the only one who held that position. Yes, a 3rd party vote today will not lead to that candidate winning. But it does put pressure on the other 2 parties to listen to those voters. And if they don't (like Hillary), they can enjoy crying for the rest of their life about the evil Russians or whatever. |
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#1183 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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I have already said this before, but if there was ever a year someone could have capitalized on an independent run, it was this year. Instead, we have a brain-wormed nut job trading off his family name
The answer to how we move beyond a two party system is ranked choice voting. That is the only realistic way it is ever going to happen. Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk |
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#1184 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Another Dem congressman (that makes 9) calls for Biden to step aside, along with the first Dem senator to officially go on record. Meanwhile, Axios is reporting that Chuck Schumer is leaving the idea that Biden might be replaced open in his conversations with donors.
Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk |
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#1185 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
As mentioned previously, Australia has had ranked choice voting for a long time and they still have two dominant parties that the public generally thinks are crap. That doesn't solve the problem. The only way to change it is for the electorate itself to change. |
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#1186 | |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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Quote:
Not unless there is some large movement of voters. Right now the way it works, it's just a calculus by each major party as to whether a 3rd party hurts or helps them in any given swing state. That's it. It only pressures one off the two major parties in a specific, limited scenario that makes a difference in an election. And, the only pressure it puts on the 2 major parties is for them to make it HARDER for 3rd parties to gain traction. It's not like they want the competition. How do we do it? It won't happen - not in my lifetime. It's kinda like making a generational change in behavior. Take smoking, for example. Except you don't just need some people to change their behavior, you need a lot of them, AND you need them to all do it at roughly the same time so that it amounts to some sort of critical mass affecting the system.
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 07-10-2024 at 07:14 PM. |
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#1187 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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In Australia, the Green Party has received double digit % in 4 of the last 5 elections. Third parties combined for more 32% of the first ballot vote in the most recent election, and they won 16 seats in the 151 member legislature. Third parties are far more vibrant there than they are here.
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
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#1188 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Got to start somewhere...
Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk |
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#1189 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I would like to see a strong 3rd party in the US.
But for today, now, 2024 it won’t happen. Start in 2025 but right now, a vote for 3rd party won’t help Joe/Dems and therefore directly or indirectly helps Trump. |
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#1190 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Quote:
This is fucking stupid. Trump was involved with over 4,000 lawsuits even before running for President. He's always been a crook. You just don't care about law and order. |
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#1191 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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How can anyone not think either of these two candidates are better than Chase Oliver, the libertarian nominee.
America would have their eyes opened if he was allowed to debate Weekend at Bernie's Biden and the Orange Clown criminal. Of course it still wouldn't matter in the end because of how broken our political system is. |
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#1192 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Oliver has some bad views but is miles better than Biden and Trump. I was going to skip the race but might throw him a bone.
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#1193 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Nice recap of what’s been happening to Joe and the feedback he’s getting.
I think odds have gone up significantly that he’ll step down (in)voluntarily. Kamala would be the consensus replacement right now. I’m sure she’s been asked the what-if question, wonder how she replied? Biden’s political position is rapidly deteriorating as criticalÂ*newsÂ*conference looms | CNN Politics |
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#1194 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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I think the odds have gone down. He made a very clear statement that would not be happening.
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#1195 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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I thought it was pretty much a done deal as well, but there are more and more cracks in his support showing. As much as they are trying to shore things up, it looks like there i still some make or break things coming up, like this life press conference today. I expect it will go fine and it will smooth some jitters, but if it goes poorly or they cut it very short it might start getting very messy. Or messier than it already is.
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#1196 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I heard Trump interview with Hannity yesterday and his first ideas are great, but then he continues to talk, and his rants get crazier and crazier as he goes. Eventually all the worst countries in the world are taking their prisoners out of jail and flying them into the USA, where they are greeted by Biden personally and given voting ability.
He reminds me of my old boss, who got everywhere in his career because he spoke very confidently, even though most of what he said was completely made up on the spot. Our job as his inner circle was to keep pointing him in the right directtion, and provide him with factual data to keep him on track, because we'd be the ones left to clean up his mess afterwards if we let him stray too far. Trump obviously does not have that. |
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#1197 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
On PredictIt, Biden shot up to .60 (and Kamala down to .27) after the letter a couple days ago. The recent news has shifted to Kamala at .44 and Biden at .40
__________________
Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner |
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#1198 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Either I'm completely wrong, or those people making such bets are. I would put the chances of Biden resigning as Democratic nominee in the single digits.
Last edited by Brian Swartz : 07-11-2024 at 09:19 AM. |
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#1199 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Right now on PredictIt, a real-money prediction site, it's:
Trump 61 Harris 23 Biden 21 https://www.predictit.org/markets/de...ntial-election I think that's a massive gut (over)reaction by the panicky class, underestimating the levers that would need to be pulled perfectly to make a candidate swap here. While I think it's tempting to say that a Trump win seems super secure, I think the value there is Biden - not that I think he wins, but I think the ship gets at least somewhat righted, and he bumps back to the lower tier of what we expect in a two-party system, somewhere north of 40. Last edited by QuikSand : 07-11-2024 at 09:29 AM. |
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#1200 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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Project 2025 vs Gay Furry Hackers is somewhat under the radar right now for how funny the entire exchange has been.
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