Katrina hits Category 5.

[Flasch186]

"When the troops showed up at the convention center with food and water in tow, the crowd erupted!!" Just like we knew they would. This shouldve been done 48 hours ago. That General Armany(sp?) really has his shit together and made all of this happen.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

You're claiming that it's racism on the part of the President, FEMA, the Governor of Louisiana (who's in charge of the NG troops), and other officials that have prevented aid from coming into New Orleans when that is the most farfetched of reasons for this clusterfuck.

Just as I don't think that trashing Bush is the answer right now, I don't think defending the administration is appropriate either.

Let's get the problem fixed. If somebody is standing in the way of fixing the problem, let's make a change. Michael Brown isn't racist; he's inept.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

How this guy every got to head FEMA is beyond me. He needs to be replaced NOW.

I'm with you. Heads should roll for this incompetance and this guy's head should be first on the chopping block. He hasn't got a single clue about anything and there is no way he should have a say on what to do from now on.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Damn kcchief, you're as fucking clueless in this thread as you are in HA's thread.
Why the hell did I even bother to read the drivel you posted, some sort sick hope that it might be something useful I guess.

You're so full of absolute horseshit & pomposity, you'd probably be able to float every refugee in New Orleans out of town on your fucking back, maybe even elevate the city to above sea level.

So youre saying the above was a lie? Fema's handling this well?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Damn kcchief, you're as fucking clueless in this thread as you are in HA's thread.
Why the hell did I even bother to read the drivel you posted, some sort sick hope that it might be something useful I guess.

You're so full of absolute horseshit & pomposity, you'd probably be able to float every refugee in New Orleans out of town on your fucking back, maybe even elevate the city to above sea level.

You're a fucking tool. Go back to sucking the administration's cock.

I'm ashamed you are a citizen of the same country that I am.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Damn kcchief, you're as fucking clueless in this thread as you are in HA's thread.
Why the hell did I even bother to read the drivel you posted, some sort sick hope that it might be something useful I guess.

You're so full of absolute horseshit & pomposity, you'd probably be able to float every refugee in New Orleans out of town on your fucking back, maybe even elevate the city to above sea level.

I don't even understand this. Care to elucidate? I also don't know what you're talk about with HA's thread.

The director of FEMA appears to know less about what's going on in New Orleans than I do and it's not my job to know. Do you have some other source of information that suggests otherwise? Or is this just typical partisan blowhardism? I don't think that matters right now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Hey JeeberD, guess where we are going for dinner either tonight or later this weekend?

Neverending Pasta Bowl!

We are mostly eating the free breakfast at the hotel and then going to buffet type places in the evening, but the pasta bowl will be a nice change soon.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Hey JeeberD, guess where we are going for dinner either tonight or later this weekend?

Neverending Pasta Bowl!

We are mostly eating the free breakfast at the hotel and then going to buffet type places in the evening, but the pasta bowl will be a nice change soon.

How are you financially? Is this going to hurt in the long run? DO you expect to get some sort of assistance? Have you heard anything about that sort of stuff?

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You're a fucking tool. Go back to sucking the administration's cock.

If that's Jon's take -- that I'm using this to criticize Bush -- then he didn't read or understand my take. I have no interest in critizing Bush right now. In that regard, it's his job to put the right people in place to make decisions. Based on what heard Michael Brown say today and what the people in New Orleans are saying -- incluing the mayor, who's up this his ass in the shit right now -- he's not the right person for the job. This has been bungled badly. It needs to be fixed, and I don't think he could do it.

Soledad had a very penetrating question for Brown. She asked him why following the tsunami airlifts of food and water and airdrops were taking place within 48 hours and here it is four days since the levees broke in New Orleans and people at the convention center were starving and dying from dehydration. He's answer: we're working on it.

I appreciate how awful this situation is. I can't even imagine it. I think everybody on the ground is doing everything they possibly can. But the people on the ground rely on the people back in office somwhere -- whether it's in Baton Rouge, Washington or a trailer outside New Orleans -- to call the plays and put the pieces in motion. Maybe it's not Mike Brown's fault; maybe he has someone working for him who was supposed to be tracking the convention center and they dropped the ball. But it's his job to make sure balls don't get dropped. The convention center was a very big ball.

Jon, I will say this -- I put a lot more stock in what the people in New Orleans are saying than I do in what you say and right now everything I've seen and heard them say indicates that while FEMA may be trying hard, they aren't necessarily make the right decisions. I applaud them for trying, but these people need more than trying -- they need smart decisions made quickly.

I couldn't be the head of FEMA either. Most people I know wouldn't. It takes a special guy. Brown's apparently not the guy.

[Wolfpack]

Just as an information-gathering notion, anyone know how the people in Florida viewed FEMA during the four-storm season last year? I don't remember this sort of hell being raised about them at that time. It could be that Brown was able to handle that sort of situation because they were spread over a couple of months (still an unprecendentedly intense period of activity) and that this single large disaster is just beyond his ability to manage because FEMA's not doing small-scale work, but literally trying to manage tens of thousands of people, workers and refugees alike.

I think a plausible scenario is that the local governments prepared as best as they could, but the scale of the disaster starting with the levee breaks on Tuesday suddenly escalated things well beyond their control and the Feds weren't in position to pick up the ball yet. Normally, the locals handle the first response, but since New Orleans was effectively decimated, that eliminated the city government, while the state government suddenly found itself depending on tenuous lifelines to reach the city. A complete lack of communication with New Orleans hindered things as authorities had incomplete knowledge of where people may be holed up aside from the Superdome, which was covered extensively. Once the criminal elements in the city realized they had the run of the place, the looting and violence broke out. The violence was unexpected for rescuers who had begun moving in Tuesday and Wednesday. Without an effective city police force and the state government having not deployed the NGs en masse yet, the authorities had to stop rescue and relief efforts because the rescusers and relievers didn't want to get killed. It was really Wednesday before the federal authorities began working to get in place in earnest. Essentially, they were caught out by the fact that they were not expecting such a complete breakdown at the local level in responding to the situation. In short, this was a huge-ass cluster$#@ and just about everyone is to blame for it. Books will be written for years on this subject and most of them will not be flattering.

Now, I do not think the local breakdown does not absolve the federal government of any responsibility whatsoever. By contrast, it does show that the federal government must have better preparation for anything that happens. As pointed out elsewhere, this is not unlike a terrorist attack against New Orleans with similar results (no local control, mayhem among the survivors, etc). The feds need to be able to not depend on local control and step in immediately if need be. We're showing to the world right now (and our good friends at Al Quaeda in particular) that if you hit us hard enough, we'll stagger. The WTC wasn't a hard enough hit. This was.

EDIT to add: Yipes. I see the thread has slid south a little since I started typing this post. Better slip on a flame-retardant suit (I don't know who I'm battening down against, but better to be prepared... ).

[stevew]

This thread is now anarchy.

[Swaggs]

When things return to normal (or as close as possible), what type of population hit do you suspect that the metro area of New Orleans will take? Also, where will those that leave settle?

The 2000 census put the city's population at 485,000 and the metro area at 1.38 million.

I'm sure some of the people that left will not return and I cannot imagine that many new people will be eager to move there. I guess what I am asking is, what do you think the geographical implications will be from Hurricane Katrina?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

How are you financially? Is this going to hurt in the long run? DO you expect to get some sort of assistance? Have you heard anything about that sort of stuff?

I'm doing well enough that I could survive for at least 6-8 months without any financial assistance even paying for my apartment and my in-laws apartment in Shreveport. I feel very fortunate to have some nice savings built up.

LSU Medical School just announced that they will be announcing later this afternoon IF they are going to continue to pay employees. Hopefully, they'll provide at least partial payments for a few months.

I doubt I will get much financial aid from FEMA or the red cross since I have resources, but my mother-in-law is very poor and I suspect she'll be able to get some aid from the Red Cross or some other agency soon.

For now, I'm completely supporting my MIL, SIL, and BIL. I'm trying to look at ways to conserve money but still keep us reasonably comfortable. For example, I just found a dollar movie theater last night that has some decent movies (10 movies that are only 2-3 months old or so) and that 2 hours or so of entertainment is very valuable from a slight mental relief. 5 dollars for the whole crew is certainly worth those 2 hours of relief. I'm rambling a bit, but we are doing ok. Even if LSU decides not to pay us, I feel fairly confident that I'll be able to get at least part time work in Shreveport since I'll be able to practice medicine within the state boundaries. Even if I can only find 15-20 hrs/week that should cover our apartments and keep a positive cash flow going. This will put a dent in our house buying fund, but we'll be ok.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I think a plausible scenario is that the local governments prepared as best as they could, but the scale of the disaster starting with the levee breaks on Tuesday suddenly escalated things well beyond their control and the Feds weren't in position to pick up the ball yet. Normally, the locals handle the first response, but since New Orleans was effectively decimated, that eliminated the city government, while the state government suddenly found itself depending on tenuous lifelines to reach the city. A complete lack of communication with New Orleans hindered things as authorities had incomplete knowledge of where people may be holed up aside from the Superdome, which was covered extensively. Once the criminal elements in the city realized they had the run of the place, the looting and violence broke out. The violence was unexpected for rescuers who had begun moving in Tuesday and Wednesday. Without an effective city police force and the state government having not deployed the NGs en masse yet, the authorities had to stop rescue and relief efforts because the rescusers and relievers didn't want to get killed. It was really Wednesday before the federal authorities began working to get in place in earnest. Essentially, they were caught out by the fact that they were not expecting such a complete breakdown at the local level in responding to the situation. In short, this was a huge-ass cluster$#@ and just about everyone is to blame for it. Books will be written for years on this subject and most of them will not be flattering.

Now, I do not think the local breakdown does not absolve the federal government of any responsibility whatsoever. By contrast, it does show that the federal government must have better preparation for anything that happens. As pointed out elsewhere, this is not unlike a terrorist attack against New Orleans with similar results (no local control, mayhem among the survivors, etc). The feds need to be able to not depend on local control and step in immediately if need be. We're showing to the world right now (and our good friends at Al Quaeda in particular) that if you hit us hard enough, we'll stagger. The WTC wasn't a hard enough hit. This was.

EDIT to add: Yipes. I see the thread has slid south a little since I started typing this post. Better slip on a flame-retardant suit (I don't know who I'm battening down against, but better to be prepared... ).

On the contrary, I applaud you for one of the most well-reasoned and impartial posts of the whole lot. In other words, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?!?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

On the contrary, I applaud you for one of the most well-reasoned and impartial posts of the whole lot. In other words, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?!?

LOL!

FWIW, I totally agree with WSU's post as well .

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Just as I don't think that trashing Bush is the answer right now, I don't think defending the administration is appropriate either.

Let's get the problem fixed. If somebody is standing in the way of fixing the problem, let's make a change. Michael Brown isn't racist; he's inept.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of blame to go around. But if someone is going to spout of the most nonsensical bullshit, I'm at least going to counter it.

Which is why I didn't respond to your complaints about Michael Brown. I disagree to a certain extent, but you at least have an argument that's not based on conspiracy theories and made up shit.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

When things return to normal (or as close as possible), what type of population hit do you suspect that the metro area of New Orleans will take? Also, where will those that leave settle?

The 2000 census put the city's population at 485,000 and the metro area at 1.38 million.

I'm sure some of the people that left will not return and I cannot imagine that many new people will be eager to move there. I guess what I am asking is, what do you think the geographical implications will be from Hurricane Katrina?

Los Angeles Saints, Las Vegas Hornets?

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

When things return to normal (or as close as possible), what type of population hit do you suspect that the metro area of New Orleans will take? Also, where will those that leave settle?

The 2000 census put the city's population at 485,000 and the metro area at 1.38 million.

I'm sure some of the people that left will not return and I cannot imagine that many new people will be eager to move there. I guess what I am asking is, what do you think the geographical implications will be from Hurricane Katrina?

I would say when the situation stabilizes, there probably won't be that big of a net change in the metro area population. While NO itself is known primarily as a tourist spot, the region's economy is a bit more diversified than that. The port of South Louisiana handles the most tonnage in the country, as it is the exit point for the trade that flows out of the Mississippi River as well as a conduit for petroleum shipments. I would think that it would be more cost-effective to try to keep that port open, than for people to find alternative shipping methods...

Some analysts are predicting a shot in the arm in the region's economy when the rebuilding phase goes into full swing. Much like the civilians willing to risk their lives by driving trucks in Iraq, the promise of economic reward may draw a few into the region.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

When things return to normal (or as close as possible), what type of population hit do you suspect that the metro area of New Orleans will take? Also, where will those that leave settle?

The 2000 census put the city's population at 485,000 and the metro area at 1.38 million.

I'm sure some of the people that left will not return and I cannot imagine that many new people will be eager to move there. I guess what I am asking is, what do you think the geographical implications will be from Hurricane Katrina?

My feeling is that the metro area will shrink a little, but the city will shrink a lot. I'm reasonably certain money will be plowed into clearing the devastation, but not so sure about rebuilding a lot of it. The French Quarter will come back. The Garden District will come back. Downtown and around the Superdome will come back. Don't know about anything else, though. This "anything else" is unfortunately mostly the poor areas of the city. What happens to those people is uncertain. Do they settle in their refugee spots in places like Houston? Do they come back and settle in one of the suburbs? I don't know.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I'm sure there'll be plenty of blame to go around. But if someone is going to spout of the most nonsensical bullshit, I'm at least going to counter it.

Which is why I didn't respond to your complaints about Michael Brown. I disagree to a certain extent, but you at least have an argument that's not based on conspiracy theories and made up shit.

I respect and agree with that. There's always plenty of blame to go around. I think the response from 9/11 is one of the rare times in our history where the immediate response from city, state and federal officials was so outstanding that there was little to critize and so much to champion.

I didn't read a lot of the thread leading up to your last comment; I scanned for some keywords for info I was looking for. I think I was punctuating your comment as much as anything. I saw a lot of partisanism and I wish that wasn't happening right now. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. I don't think this is the time or place for that. I don't doubt for one minute that everyone is trying their best to make things better. The question is whether or not they have the skills to do what they are doing. When you're at the top, you're job is cheerleader just as much as it is actually movine the pieces. Brown failed as a cheerleader today.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Now, I do not think the local breakdown does not absolve the federal government of any responsibility whatsoever. By contrast, it does show that the federal government must have better preparation for anything that happens. As pointed out elsewhere, this is not unlike a terrorist attack against New Orleans with similar results (no local control, mayhem among the survivors, etc). The feds need to be able to not depend on local control and step in immediately if need be. We're showing to the world right now (and our good friends at Al Quaeda in particular) that if you hit us hard enough, we'll stagger. The WTC wasn't a hard enough hit. This was.

This is an excellent point--it does show terrorists that an attack could bring a city to its knees...

Again, nobody can be expected to predict the future, but certainly contingency planning could improve, especially since we are plowing a lot of money into homeland security now. I think it is fair to expect a return on our investment.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

When things return to normal (or as close as possible), what type of population hit do you suspect that the metro area of New Orleans will take? Also, where will those that leave settle?

The 2000 census put the city's population at 485,000 and the metro area at 1.38 million.

I'm sure some of the people that left will not return and I cannot imagine that many new people will be eager to move there. I guess what I am asking is, what do you think the geographical implications will be from Hurricane Katrina?

I've lost track of where I've said things- what message board, what IM, to whom, etc so I hope I'm not repeating myself (and these are just my thoughts- I'm no urban planner or anything). But I think it was earlier in this thread that someone was talking about it likely returning to the Crescent City mentality. The areas that are not a giant lake of nastiness right now will build back up- it's too big a port and too much of an industrial destination for oil refining, if nothing else. As for the inner city, worst case is that the FQ will build back up as a tourist destination with everything around it, past about a 4 block buffer zone, as a bombed out condemned area.

More likely, after the water receeds and people can start to put stuff together again in a few months, people will go back to some of the nicer areas and rebuild. They won't be as nice and the areas around them will descend into abandoned warehouse-type districts. There will be pockets of good, surrounded by lots of bad. Basically, I see it like some of the downtowns of old (Cleveland, etc) or the ones that haven't been redone yet (Kansas City, etc) with regards to sports influences.

Now, maybe, there will be someone ambitious enough and with enough foresight to buy up a ton of this land on the cheap, realize it's a great prospect for urban renewal, if they can fix some of the flooding problems (restore some buffer area, more efficient and up-to-date water removal system, etc) and turn it into a wonderful downtown, building around the FQ and maybe a new sports venue but that would take a ton of cash and a lot of federal money to fix some of the currently existing problems so this doesn't happen again.

SI

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Hey JeeberD, guess where we are going for dinner either tonight or later this weekend?

Neverending Pasta Bowl!

We are mostly eating the free breakfast at the hotel and then going to buffet type places in the evening, but the pasta bowl will be a nice change soon.

Hope you enjoy it! Be sure to try the Mushroom Alfredo...it's some damn tasty stuff.

[jeff061]

New Orleans Mayor's thoughts(Hopefully this hasn't been posted).

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nag...ipt/index.html

Either Bush or the Governor of Louisiana dropped the ball, and when all is done they should hang for it, figuratively speaking.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by jeff061

New Orleans Mayor's thoughts(Hopefully this hasn't been posted).

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nag...ipt/index.html

Either Bush or the Governor of Louisiana dropped the ball, and when all is done they should hang for it, figuratively speaking.

It was a page or two ago but we'll forgive ya since it takes forever to catch up with everything in this thread

SI

[Airhog]

Can you even compare this to 9/11? During 9/11 only a few city blocks were effected by this diasaster. Here you have a large portion of a city. So im not sure how you can compare the repsponse with 9/11 with the reponse here.

[jeff061]

Doh, skimmed a bit . Sorry.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Ah yes, the old fallback. When confronted with proof of your idiocy, say the other guy has a tiny penis.

President Bush wasn't playing golf this week, Chinaski. He was at the El Mirage RV and Golf Center for a Medicaid roundtable. There was no golf played.

Again, you are speaking out of your ass. There were plenty more incidents than the three that I found on ONE website.

You are lashing out at the President because that is all you know how to do. You are patting yourself on the back for your donations because it makes you feel superior to others. You're claiming that it's racism on the part of the President, FEMA, the Governor of Louisiana (who's in charge of the NG troops), and other officials that have prevented aid from coming into New Orleans when that is the most farfetched of reasons for this clusterfuck.

You disgust me.

I apologize to all for continuing this discussion rather than letting this thread get back to good solid information. I'm just disgusted by this train of thought that is becoming increasingly prevalent.

What the hell do you expect me to say when youre telling me im bragging about making a donation? John calls me all sorts of shit and says im demonstrably worthless, but in the same breath hes advocating shooting looters who just lost every single possession. wtf is he doing besides posting on a message board, bitching about 100 people when there are 800,000 in need. Thats the only point I was making. Youre taking a stab at someone who actually is trying to help, im now a bad guy for donating blood/plasma/money?

Strike Bush playing golf then (because it sure was on his itinerary). How is giving a Medicare roundtable in a remote section of Arizona acceptable the day a massive hurricane destroys the gulf? Just answer it.

I am not lashing out, you are twisting and blowing everying I say out of proportion. I never once said all of those other people are racist, and youre incapable of undertstanding the nuance of what I was really saying. I dont concretely believe that the Bush administration is flatout saying "hey theyre black and poor, let them drown". I know 100% that is not the case. I do believe that classism/racism plays some subconscious part in the interpretation of the looting and violence, but that is just my arm chair psychologist talking.

and like hell you are sorry to everyone, you wouldnt have opened your yap in the first place.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Doh, skimmed a bit . Sorry.

Like I said, in this thread, it's really tough to keep up. Took me over half an hour to get caught up with just the stuff from overnight when I first logged in and then kept falling further behind as the posting is fast and furious

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

I just found out that my wife's hotel chain (Wyndham) is going to pay her for the next 2 months as if she was working full time for them still!

[Masked]

Originally Posted by chinaski

Strike Bush playing golf then (because it sure was on his itinerary). How is giving a Medicare roundtable in a remote section of Arizona acceptable the day a massive hurricane destroys the gulf? Just answer it.

Bush has a entire country to run. He can't ignore everything else. That is why we have organizations like FEMA and the Dept. of Homeland Security. He has to trust them to do their jobs. But I don't think it would have mattered if he was playing golf, talking about medicare, or throwing sandbags into the levee breeches.

[jeff061]

Yeah I didn't see the FEMA bit til just now. Lot of fuck ups with this whole situation, well beyong Bush and the Governor.

Hopefully people will be held accountable. By the time it's over Fox News will probably hang it on the Mayor somehow.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I just found out that my wife's hotel chain (Wyndham) is going to pay her for the next 2 months as if she was working full time for them still!

Glad to hear that.

[Eaglesfan27]

Lot's of churches are being very helpful. My MIL has a little dog that requires a special pet food (it gets kidney stones) and a local church that has already bought my in-laws some clothes just brought a 10 pound bag of that special food (which goes for about 25 dollars/bag and can only be bought from vets.)

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I just found out that my wife's hotel chain (Wyndham) is going to pay her for the next 2 months as if she was working full time for them still!

What hotel is it, Ill be sure to lean their way when hotels are needed.

[wade moore]

i apologize for my contribution to the downfall of this thread

[jeff061]

I just don't get how we could know for days of the possibility of a Cat-5 storm hitting New Orleans, know for years of the flooding this could cause, and still be totally useless and incompetent in our response.

After this I have no trust in the Government to do anything but wage wars. I'm just beyond words. All the empty PR everyone has been saying up until today just makes it worse. More interest in ones political careers than whats going on in the South.

As for the downfall on the thread, I think that can be 100% attributed to the "Bush hates blacks" idea . Other than that, looks at the ongoing fuck ups of those in charge seems to be a legitimate topic of concern.

[Marmel]

I'd like to post a formal complaint to Skydog regarding JIMG and chinaski (among others). They have taken a good informative thread and made it into their personal catfight. It is this type of thing that puts a dark cloud over FOFC, as far as I am concerned. I would like to see a penalty boxing.

[Flasch186]

a little bit of a disconnect I'd say:

From CNN:

The big disconnect on New Orleans
The official version; then there's the in-the-trenches version

Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 3:03 p.m. EDT (19:03 GMT)



NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Diverging views of a crumbling New Orleans emerged Thursday. The sanitized view came from federal officials at news conferences and television appearances. But the official line was contradicted by grittier, more desperate views from the shelters and the streets.

These conflicting views came within hours, sometimes minutes of each of each other, as reflected in CNN's transcripts. The speakers include Michael Brown, chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, evacuee Raymond Cooper, CNN correspondents and others. Here's what they had to say:

Conditions in the Convention Center

# FEMA chief Brown: We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need. (See video of CNN asking why FEMA is clueless about conditions -- 2:11)

# Mayor Nagin: The convention center is unsanitary and unsafe, and we are running out of supplies for the 15,000 to 20,000 people. (Hear Nagin's angry demand for soldiers. 1:04)

# CNN Producer Kim Segal: It was chaos. There was nobody there, nobody in charge. And there was nobody giving even water. The children, you should see them, they're all just in tears. There are sick people. We saw... people who are dying in front of you.

# Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure.

Uncollected corpses

# Brown: That's not been reported to me, so I'm not going to comment. Until I actually get a report from my teams that say, "We have bodies located here or there," I'm just not going to speculate.

# Segal: We saw one body. A person is in a wheelchair and someone had pushed (her) off to the side and draped just like a blanket over this person in the wheelchair. And then there is another body next to that. There were others they were willing to show us.

# Evacuee Cooper: They had a couple of policemen out here, sir, about six or seven policemen told me directly, when I went to tell them, hey, man, you got bodies in there. You got two old ladies that just passed, just had died, people dragging the bodies into little corners. One guy -- that's how I found out. The guy had actually, hey, man, anybody sleeping over here? I'm like, no. He dragged two bodies in there. Now you just -- I just found out there was a lady and an old man, the lady went to nudge him. He's dead.

Hospital evacuations

# Brown: I've just learned today that we ... are in the process of completing the evacuations of the hospitals, that those are going very well.

# CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta: It's gruesome. I guess that is the best word for it. If you think about a hospital, for example, the morgue is in the basement, and the basement is completely flooded. So you can just imagine the scene down there. But when patients die in the hospital, there is no place to put them, so they're in the stairwells. It is one of the most unbelievable situations I've seen as a doctor, certainly as a journalist as well. There is no electricity. There is no water. There's over 200 patients still here remaining. ...We found our way in through a chopper and had to land at a landing strip and then take a boat. And it is exactly ... where the boat was traveling where the snipers opened fire yesterday, halting all the evacuations. (Watch the video report on corpses stacked in hospital stairwells -- 4:45

# Dr. Matthew Bellew, Charity Hospital: We still have 200 patients in this hospital, many of them needing care that they just can't get. The conditions are such that it's very dangerous for the patients. Just about all the patients in our services had fevers. Our toilets are overflowing. They are filled with stool and urine. And the smell, if you can imagine, is so bad, you know, many of us had gagging and some people even threw up. It's pretty rough.(Mayor's video: Armed addicts fighting for a fix -- 1:03)

Violence and civil unrest

# Brown: I've had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they're banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I've had no reports of that.

# CNN's Chris Lawrence: From here and from talking to the police officers, they're losing control of the city. We're now standing on the roof of one of the police stations. The police officers came by and told us in very, very strong terms it wasn't safe to be out on the street. (

The federal response:

# Brown: Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well.

# Homeland Security Director Chertoff: Now, of course, a critical element of what we're doing is the process of evacuation and securing New Orleans and other areas that are afflicted. And here the Department of Defense has performed magnificently, as has the National Guard, in bringing enormous resources and capabilities to bear in the areas that are suffering.

# Crowd chanting outside the Convention Center: We want help.

# Nagin: They don't have a clue what's going on down there.

# Phyllis Petrich, a tourist stranded at the Ritz-Carlton: They are invisible. We have no idea where they are. We hear bits and pieces that the National Guard is around, but where? We have not seen them. We have not seen FEMA officials. We have seen no one.

Security

# Brown: I actually think the security is pretty darn good. There's some really bad people out there that are causing some problems, and it seems to me that every time a bad person wants to scream of cause a problem, there's somebody there with a camera to stick it in their face.

# Chertoff: In addition to local law enforcement, we have 2,800 National Guard in New Orleans as we speak today. One thousand four hundred additional National Guard military police trained soldiers will be arriving every day: 1,400 today, 1,400 tomorrow and 1,400 the next day.

# Nagin: I continue to hear that troops are on the way, but we are still protecting the city with only 1,500 New Orleans police officers, an additional 300 law enforcement personnel, 250 National Guard troops, and other military personnel who are primarily focused on evacuation.

# Lawrence: The police are very, very tense right now. They're literally riding around, full assault weapons, full tactical gear, in pickup trucks. Five, six, seven, eight officers. It is a very tense situation here.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by wade moore

i apologize for my contribution to the downfall of this thread

Apology accepted. As penance, please send me your 1st round pick via the draft utility. Thaaaaaanks.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I just found out that my wife's hotel chain (Wyndham) is going to pay her for the next 2 months as if she was working full time for them still!

That's great EF! Now if they could just change their pet policies for employees...

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I'd like to post a formal complaint to Skydog regarding JIMG and chinaski (among others). They have taken a good informative thread and made it into their personal catfight. It is this type of thing that puts a dark cloud over FOFC, as far as I am concerned. I would like to see a penalty boxing.

I kind of feel the same. I had no intention of being partisan. In my post, and if a voice of reason like Marmel or someone else thinks it was inappropriate for this discussion, I'll remove it.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Apology accepted. As penance, please send me your 1st round pick via the draft utility. Thaaaaaanks.

You'll have to talk to the 'future 1st whore' about that one...

[RoastDuck]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I just don't get how we could know for days of the possibility of a Cat-5 storm hitting New Orleans, know for years of the flooding this could cause, and still be totally useless and incompetent in our response.

As a complete outsider looking in, I have to say this is exactly how I feel. Watching CNN I have to remind myself I am watching not Somalia but the USA.

[Eaglesfan27]

Flasch, it is the Wyndham. They have a national chain of resorts and hotels.

Farrah, I agree. I wish they would waive that policy and give us the 25 dollar rooms with our pets, but I'm glad that they are least offering some sort of aid to us. Hopefully, LSU Medical School will take a similar stance. I'm still waiting for that update which is supposed to happen sometime this afternoon.

I've heard that at least several major companies are doing this or something similar for their employees in the stricken areas.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by chinaski

Strike Bush playing golf then (because it sure was on his itinerary). How is giving a Medicare roundtable in a remote section of Arizona acceptable the day a massive hurricane destroys the gulf? Just answer it.

The El Mirage Golf Club is located in a suburb of Phoenix. You know, Phoenix, the 5th largest city in the country, in the fastest growing state in the country. And the senior citizens he spoke to sure care about their Medicare. I mean, with out it they'd be eating dog food right?

So pull your stuck up nose out of the air before you piss me off.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I just don't get how we could know for days of the possibility of a Cat-5 storm hitting New Orleans, know for years of the flooding this could cause, and still be totally useless and incompetent in our response.

After this I have no trust in the Government to do anything but wage wars. I'm just beyond words. All the empty PR everyone has been saying up until today just makes it worse. More interest in ones political careers than whats going on in the South.

As for the downfall on the thread, I think that can be 100% attributed to the "Bush hates blacks" idea . Other than that, looks at the ongoing fuck ups of those in charge seems to be a legitimate topic of concern.

It wasn't a Cat-5 storm until about 24 hours before it hit

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

It wasn't a Cat-5 storm until about 24 hours before it hit

I'm aware of that. But they were predicting it prior to that.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm aware of that. But they were predicting it prior to that.

No they weren't, it was still a completely guess. If they started early and it became a small storm or missed them you'd be griping about all the wasted tax dollars and resource involved in the move

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm aware of that. But they were predicting it prior to that.

I recall that as well. The warmer waters would keep it gaining strength til landfall is what I had heard.