The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Ben E Lou]

On the "cooperation" front, I don't know the legal terminology, but this sure sounds like a dude who is off Team Trump and on Team Mueller to me.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Which would be a great defense if no US citizen ever committed murder. I realize he'll try and latch on to that, but c'mon. It's not like all murderers are illegal immigrants, and all victims of murder are citizens.

Originally Posted by cartman

No to veer too far off course, but the guy accused of killing her evidently passed the E-verify process and had worked for the past several years at a farm owned by a prominent Iowa GOP family.

Do either of you honestly think his base cares? They will see a brown man from south of the border and go rabid.

Meanwhile Trump will parade around the memory of this poor girl as a symbol why we need this ridiculous wall built.

[Ben E Lou]

I don't care what his base thinks, nor have I ever been all THAT concerned with short-term outcomes, to be completely honest. It's doing/being right that matters. The consequences are largely irrelevant in the big scheme. *shurg*

[kingfc22]

The twitter tirade has begun

[Ben E Lou]

Cohen must be the worst attorney on the planet, and the judge in the case must be the worst judge for letting Cohen plead guilty to a felony that wasn't even a crime!

Michael Cohen plead guilty to two counts of campaign finance violations that are not a crime. President Obama had a big campaign finance violation and it was easily settled!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 22, 2018

[lungs]

Wow. I was friends on Facebook with the farmer that the guy who murdered Tibbetts worked at. His account is not there today. Interestingly, the guy was very pro-Trump.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by lungs

Wow. I was friends on Facebook with the farmer that the guy who murdered Tibbetts worked at. His account is not there today. Interestingly, the guy was very pro-Trump.

What did he say? (that was taken down)

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

What did he say? (that was taken down)

I didn't see anything after the arrest. The person that gave a statement to the media (I'm assuming his brother or father?), said the killer passed e-verify.

He probably took his own profile down due to the heat they are getting, even though they didn't break the law by employing the murderer.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know anything about E-verify, but can I safely assume that it should have caught the fact that this guy was in the country illegally? I'm glad we have all of these processes in place to make sure our laws are being implemented correctly.

[NobodyHere]

Cohen won't accept pardon from Trump, attorney says - POLITICO

I'm guessing Cohen's mind might change once the reality of prison sets in.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know anything about E-verify, but can I safely assume that it should have caught the fact that this guy was in the country illegally? I'm glad we have all of these processes in place to make sure our laws are being implemented correctly.

If E-verify was reliable, yes it would have raised a red flag. But from what I’ve seen/heard it’s pretty good at catching people that are eligible work and not very good at catching those that are not. Legally, this farm actually went above and beyond what is required by the federal government to determine employee eligibility.

[Thomkal]

Heh, knew Trump would seize on the fact that 10 of the counts against Manafort were a mistrial.



"A large number of counts, ten, could not even be decided in the Paul Manafort case. Witch Hunt!"

[PilotMan]

Im guessing he has extended executive time today so he can feel better watching trump friends on tv.

[Atocep]

I'm actually starting to see GOP supporters acknowledge impeachment/resignation as a possibility now. I think it's still most likely that he finishes his term, declares victory, and doesn't run for reelection. I think the wild card will be Mueller's handling of Don Jr though. If Mueller moves to indict him I can see Trump doing something that effectively ends his Presidency.

[Thomkal]

Looks like the Dems have a plan in place in any attempt by Trump to stop the Mueller investigation:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...y-plan-n902526

[kingfc22]

Why do they ever let this guy on live tv. He is completely incapable of putting a coherent thought together.

Here is his answer when asked about the payments to the porn stars he had affairs with "allegedly".

“Later on I knew. Later on. But you have to understand, what he did -- and they weren’t taken out of campaign finance, that’s the big thing. That’s a much bigger thing. Did they come out of the campaign? They didn’t come out of the campaign, they came from me. And I tweeted about it. You know, I put -- I don’t know if you know but I tweeted about the payments. But they didn’t come out of campaign. In fact, my first question when I heard about it was did they come out of the campaign because that could be a little dicey. And they didn’t come out of the campaign and that’s big."

[Ksyrup]

Here's my take on this whole thing...

I have no idea if Trump actually and specifically decided that he needed to pay off this woman in an attempt to "influence the election." I think, like in any situation involving tawdry allegations against a celebrity, payoffs through publishing companies who kill stories is the way these things get done. I think what happened here is that Trump didn't really understand the difference between being a celebrity and running for office. And in fact, he still doesn't understand the difference. But in this situation, he got caught up in violations of laws he is not smart enough to understand and no one thought to bring to his attention (or, since he loves being surrounded by YES MEN, no one wanted to bring to his attention). I think he totally believes that payoffs are fine as long as the money didn't come from the campaign because that wasn't necessarily his primary motivation - it was just to keep her quiet like he's done with all the others. Except, "tarnish my reputation" potentially becomes "influence the election" when you are running for office.

[JPhillips]

I was struck by his size in that interview. He looks like he's put on a hundred pounds since the election. If he makes it to the end of even one term he may give Taft a run for his money.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Here's my take on this whole thing...

I have no idea if Trump actually and specifically decided that he needed to pay off this woman in an attempt to "influence the election." I think, like in any situation involving tawdry allegations against a celebrity, payoffs through publishing companies who kill stories is the way these things get done. I think what happened here is that Trump didn't really understand the difference between being a celebrity and running for office. And in fact, he still doesn't understand the difference. But in this situation, he got caught up in violations of laws he is not smart enough to understand and no one thought to bring to his attention (or, since he loves being surrounded by YES MEN, no one wanted to bring to his attention). I think he totally believes that payoffs are fine as long as the money didn't come from the campaign because that wasn't necessarily his primary motivation - it was just to keep her quiet like he's done with all the others. Except, "tarnish my reputation" potentially becomes "influence the election" when you are running for office.

But admitting the payoffs DIDN'T come from the campaign means he now has trouble with his sworn federal financial disclosures.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by cartman

But admitting the payoffs DIDN'T come from the campaign means he now has trouble with his sworn federal financial disclosures.

That's the problem with consistently lying about everything. Eventually they catch up to you as one thing will always lead to another.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by lungs

I didn't see anything after the arrest. The person that gave a statement to the media (I'm assuming his brother or father?), said the killer passed e-verify.

He probably took his own profile down due to the heat they are getting, even though they didn't break the law by employing the murderer.

Yeah it was owned by a prominent GOP family. They claim they used e-verify but as you mentioned, it's garbage.

It still goes to show that neither party really wants to stop illegal immigration.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yeah it was owned by a prominent GOP family. They claim they used e-verify but as you mentioned, it's garbage.

It still goes to show that neither party really wants to stop illegal immigration.

I'm pretty sure the party of Trump and a fair percentage of his 38-42% want to stop illegal immigration (and probably reduce legal too).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm pretty sure the party of Trump and a fair percentage of his 38-42% want to stop illegal immigration (and probably reduce legal too).

Voters might but the politicians in office and their donors don't.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Voters might but the politicians in office and their donors don't.

Okay, I can agree with this.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think it's still most likely that he finishes his term, declares victory, and doesn't run for reelection.

There's a legal and DOJ policy question about whether a sitting president can be indicted for a crime. If Giuliani and Trump believe he can't, then, maybe that could be motivation to run again. Then he has 4 years to figure out how to get a 3rd term

[lungs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yeah it was owned by a prominent GOP family. They claim they used e-verify but as you mentioned, it's garbage.

It still goes to show that neither party really wants to stop illegal immigration.

Now I'm hearing that they didn't use e-verify. Regardless, e-verify sucks.

[PilotMan]

Personally, we're to the point where Congress should be calling for t-dumb's resignation. It costs nothing to call for him to resign. The R's would be much better off as a party with that outcome, than a drawn out impeachment. Frankly, there's enough here, that calls for resignation would be completely warranted.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Personally, we're to the point where Congress should be calling for t-dumb's resignation. It costs nothing to call for him to resign. The R's would be much better off as a party with that outcome, than a drawn out impeachment. Frankly, there's enough here, that calls for resignation would be completely warranted.

They'll wait out the mid-terms to see how they go. If those lose house you'll probably see more republicans willing to go against Trump and try to take back the party. If they lose House and Senate that's probably enough of a wake up call to get republicans on board with impeachment talks and try to reset the landscape by 2020.

[Ksyrup]

My personal horror show will be all of this coming to a head right as we skate into the holidays, so that I can look forward to separate "vacations" with my parents and in-laws, during which it will take all I have in me to not kick all of them out of the house (or go stay in a hotel) as they rant and rave about how this is a travesty and Hillary should be the one whose political career ends in disgrace, not Trump's.

For my own sanity, I hope everything blows up shortly after the ball drops in NYC.

[stevew]

The time to start calling for resignation is actually between the end of the election and the start of the new session of Congress. I mean it takes a majority of votes to approve a vice president. But I mean we probably should just wait and see who the voters want to be the vice president in 2020.

I'm basically using Mitch McConnell logic, but they should not vote on a replacement vice president if the Democrats control both houses and Trump resigns or something

[Ksyrup]

When 1st page threads collide...

michael cohen
post malone
azealia was in elon’s home
nazi prison guard deport
verdict time for manafort

🎶 we didn't start the fire 🎶

— julia reinstein 🚡 (@juliareinstein) August 21, 2018

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Hillary should be the one whose political career ends in disgrace

Losing an election to this fucking lunatic is about as disgraceful an ending to a political career than one can have without ending up dead or in prison.

[Thomkal]

David Pecker, publisher of the Enquirer was subpoened and admitted that Cohen paid hush money to the two women on Trump's behalf, and Trump knew about it.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by molson

There's a legal and DOJ policy question about whether a sitting president can be indicted for a crime. If Giuliani and Trump believe he can't, then, maybe that could be motivation to run again. Then he has 4 years to figure out how to get a 3rd term

The other question is whether a sitting President can be indicted for a crime committed before he took the oath of office.

DOJ has typically taken the stance that the appropriate response for crimes in office is impeachment, followed by indictment (as appropriate) after removal from office. So that would cover the potential obstruction of justice stuff involved with his repeated attempts to depth charge the Russia investigation.

But if the investigation were to uncover crimes committed during the campaign (or earlier)? That's when the Constitutional crisis shit really hits the fan, IMO. The Trump Administration would argue that you can't impeach for crimes committed prior to his Presidency while simultaneously arguing that you can't indict a sitting President for any crimes committed, ever.

And I'm not at all certain the Congressional GOP has the stomach to take on that fight no matter HOW much smoke is coming from the barrel of that gun.

[RainMaker]

Looks like it was one holdout on those 10 charges he got off on.

Manafort juror reveals lone holdout prevented Mueller team from convicting on all counts | Fox News

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Radii

Losing an election to this fucking lunatic is about as disgraceful an ending to a political career than one can have without ending up dead or in prison.

Truth. Any kind of sane campaign or a little more humility and realism and this never would have happened.

With that being said, a Hillary presidency with Republicans controlling both houses in the current political climate probably wouldn't have been a utopia either.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Truth. Any kind of sane campaign or a little more humility and realism and this never would have happened.

With that being said, a Hillary presidency with Republicans controlling both houses in the current political climate probably wouldn't have been a utopia either.

I’ve said it before on here, there was smoke in the Hillary camp as well. Not sure if there was fire, but give; her history, I would not be surprised if there was.

I also believe that the Republican establishment is not unhappy to see things heading this way. I am very interested to see if any one contests Trump for the nomination.

All that said, if the Democrats run a center left candidate, they will win in a landslide. The problem is, they will run someone just to the right of Bernie which will make it an actual race.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The problem is, they will run someone just to the right of Bernie which will make it an actual race.

It doesn't matter what happens in the next 2 years, there's a race to be had. The propaganda machine that is Fox has moved JiMGa's statements like "liberals are a bigger threat to our nation than ISIS" dangerously close to the mainstream. Sprinkle in a little DNC incompetance and who knows where we end up two years from now.

The only thing I remain convinced of is that we're never going back to "normal". We're all fucked.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Radii

The only thing I remain convinced of is that we're never going back to "normal". We're all fucked.

That's kinda what I'm worried about, that if the left of the left has their way, they're going to say "See, the Republicans jammed the court by stealing Gorusch's seat, so we're going to add a bunch of seats to the Supreme Court, it's only fair! (since they can't REMOVE people from the Supreme Court without a supermajority, but they can sure add seats"

(Now, I'm pretty sure the Conservatives will blame it on Obama forcing through the ACA with just Dem votes, but not sure that's a good argument")

So, what we'll see is the two parties, firmly in thrall to what the other side would call "their lunatic fringe" will wildly swing between the poles, and swings will just see basically one side spending all their time undoing what the other side did and inserting their own brand of insanity.

"Illegal to Ban Gays. Medicare for All!"

versus

"Illegal to be Gay. Medicare for NONE!"

edit: I guess a better analogy would have been "JoninMiddleGA" vs "SuperLiberal Poster I can't think of right Now", but yeah, since I couldn't think of who the second was, it wouldn't work.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

The problem is, they will run someone just to the right of Bernie which will make it an actual race.

Or that's what the label will be on whomever is nominated. When was the last far left Dem nominee? Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton? The history of the last thirty years or so is to nominate a center left candidate.

[corbes]

The most damaging thing that happened yesterday to Trump was not that his former lawyer alleged under oath that Trump had directed him in the commission of crimes. It was that the United States Department of Justice allowed him to enter a guilty plea whose factual basis was that Trump had directed him in the commission of a crime. That is to say that the significance of the Cohen plea is not merely that Cohen alleges that Trump had him arrange to pay hush money to a porn star and a model in a specific effort to influence the election with illegal corporate contributions. It’s that the Justice Department believes this allegation to be true and is willing to proceed criminally against Cohen on that basis. That’s ominous for both Trump personally and for his campaign. What’s more, this particular front in the war is not under Mueller, who spun it off to the U.S. attorney’s office in the Southern District of New York. This is not, in other words, a problem Trump can fire his way out of. The SDNY has a lot more than 17 prosecutors; and whether they are angry or not, Democrats or not, they are not going away.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-worse/568135/

[Drake]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

"

edit: I guess a better analogy would have been "JoninMiddleGA" vs "SuperLiberal Poster I can't think of right Now", but yeah, since I couldn't think of who the second was, it wouldn't work.

If you don't know who the SuperLiberal in the room is, it's probably you.

[stevew]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/22/polit...ted/index.html


Just some amazing things in this Duncan Hunter indictment.

"I need shorts"
"Just buy them at a golf pro shop and will say it was golf balls that we bought to give to Wounded Warriors"

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by corbes

Who said it best: President or Mob Boss?

"This whole thing about flipping, they call it, I know all about flipping. Thirty, 40 years I have been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and then they get 10 years in jail and they flip on whoever the next highest one is, or as high as you can go. It almost ought to be outlawed. It's not fair.

"He makes a better deal when he uses me. Like everybody else." "In all fairness to him, most people are going to do that. And I have seen it many times. I have had many friends involved in this stuff. It's called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal."

bingo

What do they do in college football when they found out that the champion team broke recruiting rules and had violations again?

If you were on the BoD for a company, and the board had 4 members, who had been appointed by the Chairman, who had been arrested and convicted on various crimes related to, but not directly associated with the company, do you think that you'd be all for letting it go and trusting the Chairmen to keep making decisions for your company?

[albionmoonlight]

FWIW, I don't think that Cohen has much on Trump that the prosecution does not already have from seizing his files.

If he did, they would not be having him and his attorney making the media circus rounds.

Also, if I am a defense lawyer (Wait, I am!), then I am SALIVATING at getting to cross-examine him. I doubt he ever testifies in Court.

(If the Dems take a house of Congress, I could see him testifying before a committee because that is more political than legal).

[PilotMan]

I have a feeling that we really only are at the tip of the iceberg too on what we think we know in regards to trump and his associates. I think there's a lot more that we're in the dark on, that will come out in time. I don't think the government really needed Cohen as a major player. They had him by the balls as it was. His guilty plea allows him to get back to his family in as short a time as they will allow. He knows full well what they have on him. The question now, is whether or not, they can pinpoint, how much trump was involved in his affairs and how much they can prove.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

All that said, if the Democrats run a center left candidate, they will win in a landslide. The problem is, they will run someone just to the right of Bernie which will make it an actual race.

If the Democrats run Center Left/Republican light then their base will go 'meh' ... Trumps base will be fired up by his continuous rhetoric of fear and we'll be stuck with him for another 4 years ... frankly I'm half expecting to be stuck with him regardless it amazes me but the core of his base don't seem to care about anything he does or has done so far and I don't see why that will change.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

That's kinda what I'm worried about, that if the left of the left has their way, they're going to say "See, the Republicans jammed the court by stealing Gorusch's seat, so we're going to add a bunch of seats to the Supreme Court, it's only fair! (since they can't REMOVE people from the Supreme Court without a supermajority, but they can sure add seats"

(Now, I'm pretty sure the Conservatives will blame it on Obama forcing through the ACA with just Dem votes, but not sure that's a good argument")

So, what we'll see is the two parties, firmly in thrall to what the other side would call "their lunatic fringe" will wildly swing between the poles, and swings will just see basically one side spending all their time undoing what the other side did and inserting their own brand of insanity.

"Illegal to Ban Gays. Medicare for All!"

versus

"Illegal to be Gay. Medicare for NONE!"

edit: I guess a better analogy would have been "JoninMiddleGA" vs "SuperLiberal Poster I can't think of right Now", but yeah, since I couldn't think of who the second was, it wouldn't work.

It's not even so much of a SuperLiberal bounce back that is worrisome, as much as it is, anyone who is elected who isn't of your party. I mean. Take someone like Heitkamp, a D, but with broad support of the midwest, who acts more like an R a lot of the time, but with lots of crossover, and being a woman seems like she would be a valuable asset to cover all that middle ground. Even if she were elected, with all that middle ground, she would still be treated as if she were Hillary's right hand woman.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

If the Democrats run Center Left/Republican light then their base will go 'meh' ... Trumps base will be fired up by his continuous rhetoric of fear and we'll be stuck with him for another 4 years ... frankly I'm half expecting to be stuck with him regardless it amazes me but the core of his base don't seem to care about anything he does or has done so far and I don't see why that will change.

Trump's base is pretty fragile. Nearly everyone that I know that voted for him is looking for another option. That said, if the democrats go hard left, they will go back to Trump if there is no other viable option.

I am not sure if another candidate can beat Trump in the primaries though. I do think Trump's base is a solid 25-30% of the electorate. I am not sure you can beat that in the primary, barring some exemplary candidate.

If we're all worried about the lurches to the left and right after elections, maybe it is better that we get some milquetoast candidates.

[AlexB]

I find it amazing that people deny things like the proven narrative here:
There were no hush payments
There were hush payments but I didn’t know about them
I did know about the payments, but they weren’t my money
I paid hush money

Whether you think it’s important or not is personal opinion, but it seems like people are denying the previous stages ever happened - that’s the scariest part to me, people are completely brainwashed.