POTUS 2016 General Election Discussion Thread - Page 23

Thomkal · 07-31-2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I wonder if the NFL holds any sort of grudge towards him after the whole USFL thing.

heh that explains everything.

RainMaker · 07-31-2016, 07:12 PM

Yeah he destroyed their biggest competitor and stance on concussions would seem to be something the NFL would like in the oval office.

RainMaker · 07-31-2016, 09:08 PM

JPhillips · 07-31-2016, 10:11 PM

So is it insane to believe that maybe the GOP establishment plan is to get Trump elected and immediately impeach him?

nol · 07-31-2016, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Almost as though what one actually says has something to do with the quality of the speech. If the DNC in 2004 had brought out the mother of a 9/11 victim to make a "Bush did 9/11" speech, that would have been manipulative and a bad speech just as Pat Smith's was.

panerd · 07-31-2016, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nol

Almost as though what one actually says has something to do with the quality of the speech. If the DNC in 2004 had brought out the mother of a 9/11 victim to make a "Bush did 9/11" speech, that would have been manipulative and a bad speech just as Pat Smith's was.

Good lord the cheerleaders will defend everything about their side. I have no horse in the race between the two but the media coverage is outrageously slantled. There was actually an article from the LA Times on my newsfeed that talked about how a military coup could "plausably" happen if Trump was elected. (They actually said it was plausible!) I tape a rerun of a show every night at midnight and two weeks ago it aired basically uninterrupted. This week it wasn't even aired for one minute with nightline extra coverage every night of the Democratic convention.

larrymcg421 · 08-01-2016, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

There was actually an article from the LA Times on my newsfeed that talked about how a military coup could "plausably" happen if Trump was elected. (They actually said it was plausible!)

Totally crazy! That's like claiming the government forced a third party candidate to drop out of the race.

SackAttack · 08-01-2016, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So is it insane to believe that maybe the GOP establishment plan is to get Trump elected and immediately impeach him?

That'd be a Plan B if anything.

I think their plan is to try to tear down Clinton to the point that nobody reaches 270 so the House can pick someone else.

The problem with impeachment is I can completely see the Democrats going "oh hell no, you made this bed, you lie in it." The House can vote to impeach with a simple majority.

The Senate needs a two-thirds majority to remove the impeached from office.

What would be the Democrats' incentive to cooperate with Republican panic?

"You spent a year telling the nation how we'd be much better off with Trump than with Clinton, so why are you freaking out now? You said you could control him, so go do it."

stevew · 08-01-2016, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So is it insane to believe that maybe the GOP establishment plan is to get Trump elected and immediately impeach him?

I was thinking about this. Immediately is probably not on the table but it becomes more likely after the midterms are over.

Ben E Lou · 08-01-2016, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

If Trump had had the good sense to have said nothing or, if asked, "it's terrible that they lost their son. I appreciate his sacrifice and can't imagine what it's like to lose a son," the impact of Khan's speech is minimized, and pretty much forgotten in a couple of weeks or so. Instead, the longer him attacking this family stays in the news, the more potential votes he loses from undecideds and conservatives who were lukewarm about him.

...and to start the new work week, his first two tweets are about the Khans.

flere-imsaho · 08-01-2016, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But he can't win -- zero percent chance -- if he doesn't hold that base AND get them to show up.f.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He can if they stay home.
(see my comment about total turnout)

As you point out, it's a very thin balancing act. To win, he has to continue to do the things that'll get his base to come out in droves, while not also going too far so as to actively push people in the "middle" towards Clinton out of fear.

A more saavy politician might be able to split the difference, but we're now seeing the trouble Trump is having with the spotlight completely focused on him.

flere-imsaho · 08-01-2016, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So is it insane to believe that maybe the GOP establishment plan is to get Trump elected and immediately impeach him?

I don't know about plan, but I could definitely see it being discussed.

More likely, I would think, would be key GOP congressional leaders reaching out to Trump's circle and trying to suss out who's going to be in charge of legislation, and getting them on board. Aside from stuff he actually cares about, Trump is likely to be a rubber stamp for anything that his inner circle says is OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

There was actually an article from the LA Times on my newsfeed that talked about how a military coup could "plausably" happen if Trump was elected.

Link? Article or editorial?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

That'd be a Plan B if anything.

I think their plan is to try to tear down Clinton to the point that nobody reaches 270 so the House can pick someone else.

The problem with impeachment is I can completely see the Democrats going "oh hell no, you made this bed, you lie in it." The House can vote to impeach with a simple majority.

Well, plus you impeach Trump, you get Pence. Arguably even worse for Democrats.

I'd be surprised if the goal is to keep everyone below 270 (actually very difficult to do unless you're going to find a way to get Johnson & Stein electoral votes, which in itself is going to be very, very hard).

It makes for an interesting question, though: would Trump or Clinton be more damaging to the GOP, long-term?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

...and to start the new work week, his first two tweets are about the Khans.

Trump's the guy who can't stop arguing the score in a pick-up basketball game, even when the other side realized and agreed that they missed one of his points in the tally.

JPhillips · 08-01-2016, 08:19 AM

So now "the media" is defined as a guy with a blog?

panerd · 08-01-2016, 08:23 AM

Reply to Flere...

It was an editorial obviously but as irresponsible as I have ever seen from a major newspaper. I guess whatever it takes to sell papers and pander? Like I said take the cheerleading out of the equation I am a Johnson supporter who is completely happy with a Clinton presidency and with some fear of a Trump presidency. It doesn't mean I need newspapers using scare tactics like vote Clinton or the military will do the job for you. It's this sort of shit that really rallies Trump supporters as well and I can't say that I blame them.

If Trump wins, a coup isn't impossible here in the U.S. - LA Times

RainMaker · 08-01-2016, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

Reply to Flere...

It was an editorial obviously but as irresponsible as I have ever seen from a major newspaper. I guess whatever it takes to sell papers and pander? Like I said take the cheerleading out of the equation I am a Johnson supporter who is completely happy with a Clinton presidency and with some fear of a Trump presidency. It doesn't mean I need newspapers using scare tactics like vote Clinton or the military will do the job for you. It's this sort of shit that really rallies Trump supporters as well and I can't say that I blame them.

If Trump wins, a coup isn't impossible here in the U.S. - LA Times

I can't figure out why print media is dying.

Butter · 08-01-2016, 08:45 AM

The headline is misleading, but I agree the headline is irresponsible.

The article really just talks about the possibility of some members of the military refusing to follow illegal orders. Not sure that's a coup.

cuervo72 · 08-01-2016, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'd be surprised if the goal is to keep everyone below 270 (actually very difficult to do unless you're going to find a way to get Johnson & Stein electoral votes, which in itself is going to be very, very hard).

Yeah, there's a guy from HS who posts a bunch of stuff to the effect of "hey, I don't really know but here's food for thought" (hint: he already has an opinion) and threw out one on if it was plausible for Johnson to siphon enough votes to throw it to the House. While the article he linked did have a 269/269 possibility, it was just from a wacky combo of red/blue. Don't think he quite understood how electoral votes worked, and that Johnson would actually have to get some.

Never mind that there is no "somebody else" - the House has to pick someone who actually received electoral votes.

Unless there are some faithless elector shenanigans...

Thomkal · 08-01-2016, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So is it insane to believe that maybe the GOP establishment plan is to get Trump elected and immediately impeach him?

Ted Cruz would no doubt be behind such a stupid plan.

digamma · 08-01-2016, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola:

And though this has nothing to do with anything, I am still curious. It was a perfect prop: blue border with a picture of the Constitution on the front. A little worn and weathered like it's been read a lot.

Was it his? If it was his, was it already worn, or did they crease the page for him? If it wasn't, did they send an intern out to buy a bunch of pocket constitutions so that they could see which one looked best on camera? And was there one person in charge of bending and folding it to make it look weathered?

Khan appears to be the real deal.

Quote:

After their son’s death, Mr. Khan and his wife, who had moved to Charlottesville to be close to their other sons, had the university’s R.O.T.C. cadets over for dinner once a year. Mr. Khan would give them each a pocket-size copy of the Constitution, just like the one he brandished on Thursday, said Tim Leroux, who used to run the R.O.T.C. program.

panerd · 08-01-2016, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

The headline is misleading, but I agree the headline is irresponsible.

The article really just talks about the possibility of some members of the military refusing to follow illegal orders. Not sure that's a coup.

Without even talking about most of the piece here's the conclusion...

Trump is not only patently unfit to be president, but a danger to America and the world. Voters must stop him before the military has to.

Butter · 08-01-2016, 09:17 AM

I mean, I agree with the first sentence of your two sentence conclusion.

Thomkal · 08-01-2016, 09:19 AM

any new polls out since the DNC? Curious how much of a bump Clinton might have got from it.

cartman · 08-01-2016, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal

any new polls out since the DNC? Curious how much of a bump Clinton might have got from it.

I've only seen one, and it was substantial. But not sure if it was an outlier, need to wait for more to come in.

digamma · 08-01-2016, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

Without even talking about most of the piece here's the conclusion...

Trump is not only patently unfit to be president, but a danger to America and the world. Voters must stop him before the military has to.

I mean, it's an Op Ed by one guy. Paul Ryan has an Op Ed in the Washington Post this morning that HRC is unfit to get security briefings that would be standard up until the election.

As an aside, unfit seems to be the word of this election cycle.

But, for clarity, this is just one academic's opinion, not the LA Times editorial board.

JPhillips · 08-01-2016, 09:39 AM

And Kirchick isn't your typical leftie writer. He's written for a number of very conservative publications over his career.

nol · 08-01-2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

Good lord the cheerleaders will defend everything about their side. I have no horse in the race between the two but the media coverage is outrageously slantled. There was actually an article from the LA Times on my newsfeed that talked about how a military coup could "plausably" happen if Trump was elected. (They actually said it was plausible!) I tape a rerun of a show every night at midnight and two weeks ago it aired basically uninterrupted. This week it wasn't even aired for one minute with nightline extra coverage every night of the Democratic convention.

No, you have a vested interest in pretending as though you are a special snowflake for not being in lock-step agreement with every single issue on either platform put forward by the two major political parties. Everyone else is surely a mindless sheep except for you, the guy who reads and spells at roughly an 8th grade level.

Gotta hear both sides, though. Care to expose that writer's hypocrisy by explaining either what was in Khizir Khan's speech to make it bad/exploitative (in which case you somehow manage to have a much more negative view of it than Paul Ryan and John McCain did despite having 'no horse in the race') or what made Pat Smith's speech (a speech so unremarkable that I hadn't seen any right-wing people bring it up until after Khan's to attempt to make a facile comparison between the two) actually powerful or effective?

molson · 08-01-2016, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal

any new polls out since the DNC? Curious how much of a bump Clinton might have got from it.

A CBS poll came out this morning with Clinton +6 in 2-person race and +5 with Johnson included. Which I think is about where were before both conventions. Except Johnson was at 10% (in the new poll),which is at the higher end of where he's polled.

panerd · 08-01-2016, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nol

No, you have a vested interest in pretending as though you are a special snowflake for not being in lock-step agreement with every single issue on either platform put forward by the two major political parties. Everyone else is surely a mindless sheep except for you, the guy who reads and spells at roughly an 8th grade level.

I don't waste my time with internet tough guys.

bhlloy · 08-01-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

A CBS poll came out this morning with Clinton +6 in 2-person race and +5 with Johnson and Stein included. Which I think is about where were before both conventions. Except Johnson was at 10% ,which is at the higher end of where he's polled.

Even though I don't agree with him on too much, I'm genuinely excited about the prospect of Johnson getting over 5% to get a third party back in the national spotlight.

ISiddiqui · 08-01-2016, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Even though I don't agree with him on too much, I'm genuinely excited about the prospect of Johnson getting over 5% to get a third party back in the national spotlight.

Unfortunately he really needs to get to 15% to really have a chance at the national spotlight - by getting in the debates. Then again, listening to Trump, there may not be a debate

.

flere-imsaho · 08-01-2016, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

There was actually an article from the LA Times

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

It was an editorial obviously

Don't mis-represent an editorial as an article. Especially in the day-and-age when major newspapers will let pretty much anyone write an editorial because pageviews.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

While the article he linked did have a 269/269 possibility, it was just from a wacky combo of red/blue. Don't think he quite understood how electoral votes worked, and that Johnson would actually have to get some.

Didn't think this was functionally possible, but it is: Electoral College Tie Combinations

Utah's the only state where I've heard of a poll that has Johnson close to Trump/Clinton. So yeah, maybe he takes that, and then the other two split enough so that nobody gets 270.

JPhillips · 08-01-2016, 10:20 AM

The Libertarians have a huge ballot access problem as of today. They aren't currently on the ballot in states that account for almost 200 electoral votes. The map on their site doesn't make it clear which states they are likely to eventually get, but as of today they're nothing more than a potential spoiler in NC, FL and a few others.

https://www.lp.org/2016-presidential-ballot-access-map

panerd · 08-01-2016, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Utah's the only state where I've heard of a poll that has Johnson close to Trump/Clinton. So yeah, maybe he takes that, and then the other two split enough so that nobody gets 270.

I think he polls pretty well in New Mexico and Colorado but don't know where you can find the breakdown online. I know New Mexico is where he actually pulled like 4% in 2012.

panerd · 08-01-2016, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The Libertarians have a huge ballot access problem as of today. They aren't currently on the ballot in states that account for almost 200 electoral votes. The map on their site doesn't make it clear which states they are likely to eventually get, but as of today they're nothing more than a potential spoiler in NC, FL and a few others.

https://www.lp.org/2016-presidential-ballot-access-map

I get fundraising emails from them all the time worried about ballot access. I think that is just as much a fundraising thing as anything. They were on 49 in 2012 no reason to think they won't be on all of them this year.

digamma · 08-01-2016, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Don't mis-represent an editorial as an article. Especially in the day-and-age when major newspapers will let pretty much anyone write an editorial because pageviews.

Again, this isn't an editorial. An editorial is put forth by the editorial board of the paper and is an official representation of the paper's beliefs. An Op-Ed is one person's opinion, generally an outside contributor, as was the case with this one. The Op-Ed name actually comes from "opposite of editorial" because the contributor speaks alone and not for the paper or its board.

flere-imsaho · 08-01-2016, 10:56 AM

Good point, digamma.

flere-imsaho · 08-01-2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

I think he polls pretty well in New Mexico and Colorado but don't know where you can find the breakdown online. I know New Mexico is where he actually pulled like 4% in 2012.

Colorado: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Colorado: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein

New Mexico: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - New Mexico: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson

Utah: RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - Utah: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson

Not a ton of data, not particularly close in any to winning, but decent double-digits.

stevew · 08-01-2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

I get fundraising emails from them all the time worried about ballot access. I think that is just as much a fundraising thing as anything. They were on 49 in 2012 no reason to think they won't be on all of them this year.

Isn't it basically impossible to get on the ballot in Oklahoma though?

Hmm, nvmd, they managed to get a zillion signatures in order to qualify.

flere-imsaho · 08-01-2016, 11:22 AM

Well: Election Update: Clinton’s Bounce Appears Bigger Than Trump’s | FiveThirtyEight

Kodos · 08-01-2016, 11:48 AM

But I assure you that Trump's hands are bigger than Clinton's.

wustin · 08-01-2016, 01:40 PM

She should thank Obama for that big ass bounce.

ISiddiqui · 08-01-2016, 01:47 PM

#ThanksObama

Kodos · 08-01-2016, 01:59 PM

Great. Now Obama is redistributing votes.

molson · 08-01-2016, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wustin

that big ass bounce.

Just wanted to pull that out and quote it for no particular reason.

CarterNMA · 08-01-2016, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wustin

She should thank Obama for that big ass bounce.

For the want of a hyphen...

So HRC has a big ass and Barry bounced it? Payback's a bitch, Bill. ;-)

whomario · 08-01-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wustin

She should thank Obama for that big ass bounce.

and considering shes not Trump, she probably will.

JonInMiddleGA · 08-01-2016, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma

The Op-Ed name actually comes from "opposite of editorial" because the contributor speaks alone and not for the paper or its board.

Umm ... I think the "opposite" in the name stemmed from it's literal position in the paper, on the page "opposite" the traditional editorial page.

The opinions are not necessarily contrarian.

JPhillips · 08-01-2016, 03:22 PM

So today,

Trump has decided no more interviews with CNN because they are unfair

Trump called a press conference to complain about a fire marshal

Scottie Neil Hughes said Trump's sacrifice was working so hard he blew two marriages

and the best

Trump surrogates are now saying Captain Khan was a Muslim Brotherhood agent and was killed before he could hurt American troops

albionmoonlight · 08-01-2016, 03:39 PM

He also called the election rigged.

If he loses (still an if, not a when), I don't think that he will concede. I think that he will contest the legitimacy of the election.

Question will be whether the GOP leaders agree with him on that or if they break ranks.

digamma · 08-01-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... I think the "opposite" in the name stemmed from it's literal position in the paper, on the page "opposite" the traditional editorial page.

The opinions are not necessarily contrarian.

I've read both explanations. Of course they aren't always opposing viewpoints.

07-31-2016, 10:11 PM	#1104
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	So is it insane to believe that maybe the GOP establishment plan is to get Trump elected and immediately impeach him? __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

08-01-2016, 08:19 AM	#1113
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	So now "the media" is defined as a guy with a blog? __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

08-01-2016, 08:23 AM	#1114
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	Reply to Flere... It was an editorial obviously but as irresponsible as I have ever seen from a major newspaper. I guess whatever it takes to sell papers and pander? Like I said take the cheerleading out of the equation I am a Johnson supporter who is completely happy with a Clinton presidency and with some fear of a Trump presidency. It doesn't mean I need newspapers using scare tactics like vote Clinton or the military will do the job for you. It's this sort of shit that really rallies Trump supporters as well and I can't say that I blame them. If Trump wins, a coup isn't impossible here in the U.S. - LA Times Last edited by panerd : 08-01-2016 at 08:25 AM.

08-01-2016, 08:45 AM	#1116
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	The headline is misleading, but I agree the headline is irresponsible. The article really just talks about the possibility of some members of the military refusing to follow illegal orders. Not sure that's a coup. __________________ My listening habits

08-01-2016, 09:17 AM	#1121
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I mean, I agree with the first sentence of your two sentence conclusion. __________________ My listening habits

07-31-2016, 07:12 PM	#1102
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Yeah he destroyed their biggest competitor and stance on concussions would seem to be something the NFL would like in the oval office.

07-31-2016, 09:08 PM	#1103
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL

08-01-2016, 09:19 AM	#1122
Thomkal Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA	any new polls out since the DNC? Curious how much of a bump Clinton might have got from it. __________________ Coastal Carolina Baseball-2016 National Champion! 10/17/20-Coastal Football ranked in Top 25 for first time!

08-01-2016, 09:39 AM	#1125
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	And Kirchick isn't your typical leftie writer. He's written for a number of very conservative publications over his career. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

08-01-2016, 10:20 AM	#1132
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	The Libertarians have a huge ballot access problem as of today. They aren't currently on the ballot in states that account for almost 200 electoral votes. The map on their site doesn't make it clear which states they are likely to eventually get, but as of today they're nothing more than a potential spoiler in NC, FL and a few others. https://www.lp.org/2016-presidential-ballot-access-map __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

08-01-2016, 10:56 AM	#1136
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Good point, digamma.

08-01-2016, 11:22 AM	#1139
flere-imsaho Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicagoland	Well: Election Update: Clinton’s Bounce Appears Bigger Than Trump’s \| FiveThirtyEight

08-01-2016, 11:48 AM	#1140
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	But I assure you that Trump's hands are bigger than Clinton's. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

08-01-2016, 01:40 PM	#1141
wustin College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2014	She should thank Obama for that big ass bounce.

08-01-2016, 01:47 PM	#1142
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	#ThanksObama __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

08-01-2016, 01:59 PM	#1143
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Great. Now Obama is redistributing votes. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

08-01-2016, 03:22 PM	#1148
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	So today, Trump has decided no more interviews with CNN because they are unfair Trump called a press conference to complain about a fire marshal Scottie Neil Hughes said Trump's sacrifice was working so hard he blew two marriages and the best Trump surrogates are now saying Captain Khan was a Muslim Brotherhood agent and was killed before he could hurt American troops __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

08-01-2016, 03:39 PM	#1149
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	He also called the election rigged. If he loses (still an if, not a when), I don't think that he will concede. I think that he will contest the legitimacy of the election. Question will be whether the GOP leaders agree with him on that or if they break ranks.

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