2012 NFL Offseason thread

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BlackJack

For the old folks around here, reminds me a little of the Eric Lindros to Philly, NYR trade mess.

Except no one really wants Tebow.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

What will Sean Payton do without access to the teams drug room now?

Startin' to think this Payton guy may not be a high character guy...

[BlackJack]

Originally Posted by Logan

Except no one really wants Tebow.

Quite true. It's a race to the bottom.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by BlackJack

For the old folks around here, reminds me a little of the Eric Lindros to Philly, NYR trade mess.

Referencing Lindros counts as "for the old folks"?!?!

[BlackJack]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Referencing Lindros counts as "for the old folks"?!?!

yes. myself included.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Logan

More info on the holdup of the deal. Apparently the Jets didn't even ask to read Tebow's contract prior to announcing the deal as being done, which contains explicit wording about an acquiring team needing to pay Denver back the $5 million in salary he was advanced.

I swore this was mentioned here when he signed his rookie contract.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You guys are acting like 17 million dollars is just something players can just pass on like its nothing. Out of all people Brees should not be the one sitting out in protest as he was a huge part of the latest labor dispute. The players signed the deal and certain players have to suffer. Its unfortunate for Brees but it is what the players agreed to.

Giving up $17 million today for triple that tomorrow...yeah, I think players are smarter than they look. You may not like it as a fan, but it's a business and it's their job, a very, very dangerous one and they need to take care of themselves because the NFL certainly isn't going to do it.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by molson

It's just a theoretical question but could a player who was franchised really just hold out and become a free agent after the season? Wouldn't you have to show up at some point to get credit for a season played like Logan Mankins did last year?

Mankins needed that season to reach the # of seasons required to become a UFA. Brees is well past that.

[stevew]

The Saints signed Brees to what turned into a below market deal, and didn't bother to renegotiate it. Therefore they deserve to get screwed.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Giving up $17 million today for triple that tomorrow...yeah, I think players are smarter than they look. You may not like it as a fan, but it's a business and it's their job, a very, very dangerous one and they need to take care of themselves because the NFL certainly isn't going to do it.

so you thinks its smart to give up the 17 million this year to get the 20+ million per year he will get next year in which he will more than likely get anyway?

If he plays he will earn
2012 17m
2013 20m
2014 20m
2015 20m
2016 20m
2017 20m
-------------------
6 years 117 million (w 17 m of that guaranteed and another 30-40 after 1 season)

or

2012 0m
2013 20m
2013 20m
2015 20m
2016 20m
2017 20m
--------------------
5 years 100 million(w 30-40 of that guaranteed)

Basically you would be willing to give away 17 million dollars in order to potentially guarantee yourself double that amount next year?

Seems foolish to me but I guess I dont have 100 million dollars laying around.

[Chief Rum]

If this Jets Tebow thing falls through, I totally blew my purchase of Sanchebow.com, which was to be the home for an online comic series about a superhero named Sanchebow with dual personalities.

[Suburban Rhythm]

The trade needs to happen just so more jokes like this can be made

[Grover]

In non-Tebow, non-Saints news...

The Bengals are close to signing BenJarvis Green-Ellis to a 3 year deal.

I am stoked about this.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Basically you would be willing to give away 17 million dollars in order to potentially guarantee yourself double that amount next year?

Seems foolish to me but I guess I dont have 100 million dollars laying around.

Look at it this way, if plays this year and collects his $17M and gets hurt then he's done before being able to maximize his earning potential. He just made his last buck at 33 years old, in his prime. What a waste, for him, his team, and the fans.

If he plays this year and has an off year, which is very likely with all the crap going on, he severely diminishes his earning potential going forward because any GM who has the team's best interests at heart will be making sure Brees isn't getting paid for his amazing seasons but for the shitty one he just endured. Not the worst thing in the world, but still not maximizing his value at what should be its peak.

Brees will get more than $30-40M guaranteed, in fact, he'd be silly to sign for anything less than $50M guaranteed because he's already been hosed by his current GM and his former GM...if anybody deserves a pay day, it's Brees. And if the Saints don't want to pay, that's fine, there are plenty of suitors who are ready to pay for Brees who will have one less year of wear and tear on his body.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Saints had their share of personal fouls over the last few years, but before bountygate have you heard attention about them having a pattern of dirty hits? Or see any especially bad hit on Sportscenter? The personal fouls the Saints have had have been almost all bang bang as a result of blitzing like crazy without the athletes to pull off sacks on time. (As an example of the Saint's lack of guys who could pull off the blitz, SS Roman Harper lead the team in sacks last year, and his lack of quickness is a liability in the secondary.)

As an example of the attention a team playing real dirty football, and the press it can get, look at the Detroit Lions during the middle part of this past season.

If someone pays a guy to shoot someone else. Even if the "hitman" misses, the person paying him can still go to jail for a long time. It's not the results so much as the intent.

As Jim says, if it's documented that the Saints were going to pay someone 5-10K to injure someone else - that is a crime.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Look at it this way, if plays this year and collects his $17M and gets hurt then he's done before being able to maximize his earning potential. He just made his last buck at 33 years old, in his prime. What a waste, for him, his team, and the fans.

If he plays this year and has an off year, which is very likely with all the crap going on, he severely diminishes his earning potential going forward because any GM who has the team's best interests at heart will be making sure Brees isn't getting paid for his amazing seasons but for the shitty one he just endured. Not the worst thing in the world, but still not maximizing his value at what should be its peak.

Brees will get more than $30-40M guaranteed, in fact, he'd be silly to sign for anything less than $50M guaranteed because he's already been hosed by his current GM and his former GM...if anybody deserves a pay day, it's Brees. And if the Saints don't want to pay, that's fine, there are plenty of suitors who are ready to pay for Brees who will have one less year of wear and tear on his body.

In the sport they play there is risk of injury. I dont see how you think its right if Drew Brees(the vice president of the NFL Players Association Executive Committee) decides to spit in the face of the many others than have had to take on this designation by not doing it.

If you really think Brees will get over 50m guaranteed you are crazy. Peyton Manning who was far closer to the Colts brass and had been with that franchise longer was only guaranteed 28m a year ago on that extension he signed. This is a player that HAD NEVER been injured or missed a game.

I am not saying whats right or wrong but Brees is really the wrong person to complain about something he signed on and agreed upon. Is he saying its ok if Cam Newton gets franchised but its not ok for the same to happen to him? If he didnt want the franchise they shouldnt have agreed to it.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

The trade needs to happen just so more jokes like this can be made

Best. Macro. Ever.

[miked]

But he's not signing and agreeing to anything. I fail to see how a guy not wanting to sign his tender is a spitting in the face of others who "had to" take the designation. Seems like plenty of other guys (like Mankins, Samuel I think) refused to sign. He agreed to a CBA structure, not to be lowballed and franchised by the team he saved.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by miked

But he's not signing and agreeing to anything. I fail to see how a guy not wanting to sign his tender is a spitting in the face of others who "had to" take the designation. Seems like plenty of other guys (like Mankins, Samuel I think) refused to sign. He agreed to a CBA structure, not to be lowballed and franchised by the team he saved.

He signed off on the latest CBA which allowed for this type of "lowballing" to happen.

[DaddyTorgo]

lowballing?

LOL

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Yes, lowballing. What would Brees get on the open market? What did Manning just get?

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He signed off on the latest CBA which allowed for this type of "lowballing" to happen.

Do you think the players and owners got everything they wanted in the current CBA that Brees just signed? It's a negotiation process and you have to take the good with the bad. The Franchise Tag is obviously bad for players but they had to sign off on that to get other things they wanted.

Look, if the Saints would have come out and said to Brees that we're going to slap the tag on you but we are committed to paying you like a top 5 QB, similar to how the Colts handled Manning's tagging, then I'm sure none of this would be even talked about because Brees would have himself a 5-year, $100+M deal. But that didn't happen and Brees is obviously pissed about it and I think he has every right to be pissed about it. He put the Saints back on the map and made them relevant, won them a Super Bowl, and is a pillar in that community...and they still haven't paid him.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Brees is obviously pissed about it and I think he has every right to be pissed about it. He put the Saints back on the map and made them relevant, won them a Super Bowl, and is a pillar in that community...and they still haven't paid him.

I completely agree with this. I really dont think the Saints plan on not paying him or Brees sitting out though. Just insanely slow contract negotiations. Both of these two sides mean too much to each other for it to not work.

[stevew]

I think you could easily argue that Brees should get about 133% of Manning. Easily 4-5 teams would pay him 25M a season and guarantee 60-75M

[stevew]

I also wonder if Rodgers is going to demand an adjustment to his deal soon. He's basically making Ryan Fitzpatrick type money right now.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think you could easily argue that Brees should get about 133% of Manning. Easily 4-5 teams would pay him 25M a season and guarantee 60-75M

I guess maybe they could. I did just look up Bradys extension and seen he got 48m guaranteed on his last extension. The problem is the guarantee eats up so much cap space and cant be re-negotiated plus Brady was a bit younger than Brees will be. And youd have to think teams will use a bit more caution now that the seemingly invincible Peyton Manning missed an entire year.

[whomario]

i realize Tebow has his (major) flaws, but i just can´t believe some of the things being written right now. Talk about going from one exctreme to the other, jeez ... I actually just read on Grantland

He's a very flawed quarterback with the ability to serve as an effective runner who can throw downfield for big plays. The Jets successfully employed a player like that from 2007-10, former Mizzou quarterback Brad Smith, who is now filling that "Slash" role for the Buffalo Bills. The Jets likely remember what Smith did and associate his absence in their offense with part of the reason why they declined last season, so I wouldn't be shocked if they brought Tebow in to play that same role. He can play that part and have some value, but the Jets will have to find an active roster spot for him every week, which will be tricky

Seriously, you are going to tell us that it would be a risk or anything to carry him as your backup QB flat out ? Worst case you get a QB in who won´t throw the ball away and can propably do more to keep an offense moving than your average backup who lacks cohesion with the starters because Tebow´s strength is creating something out of plays that break down (which are usually plentifull with a backup in)

25 team are likely screwed anyway if their starter goes out, i´d much rather take my chances with a guy like Tebow who gives you the option to do sth different rather than inserting a guy who is propably similar to your starter, only multiple levels below him.

Dunno if that makes sense, but it amazes me right now and imo it has a lot to do with traditionalists handing out some "payback" and giving this whole idea the finger. "How dare anyone think you could win with a flawed player at QB ?"

[DeToxRox]

Tim Tebow ‏ @TirnTebow

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It's done... Heading to the #Jaguars! Can't wait to be home! #NFL

EDIT: Michael Lombardi retweeted this but as we can see its a fake.

[mckerney]

Tirn Tebow?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Among those who got snookered by this, if I'm not mistaken, would be PastaPadre ... was on his FB wall briefly, not there now, but I saw it & started searching the news for updates.

edit: PP's post wasn't a direct quote but was to the affect that Tebow was headed to Jax, the timing seems to match very closely

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I guess maybe they could. I did just look up Bradys extension and seen he got 48m guaranteed on his last extension. The problem is the guarantee eats up so much cap space and cant be re-negotiated plus Brady was a bit younger than Brees will be. And youd have to think teams will use a bit more caution now that the seemingly invincible Peyton Manning missed an entire year.

I'd imagine Calvin Johnson's recent re-signing, with $60MM guaranteed, has reset the bar again.

[molson]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'd imagine Calvin Johnson's recent re-signing, with $60MM guaranteed, has reset the bar again.

It's funny owners can't collude but apparently have the obligation to honor each others' player contract philosophies. I guess whatever angle gets you the big deal is fair game though.

[ColtCrazy]

Perplexed about the Texans letting DeMeco Ryans go. Always liked him as a LB. No Mario, No Ryans. Texans can't handle success or saving money because they know they can probably win the AFC South with a 9-7 team?

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Look at it this way, if plays this year and collects his $17M and gets hurt then he's done before being able to maximize his earning potential. He just made his last buck at 33 years old, in his prime. What a waste, for him, his team, and the fans.

If he plays this year and has an off year, which is very likely with all the crap going on, he severely diminishes his earning potential going forward because any GM who has the team's best interests at heart will be making sure Brees isn't getting paid for his amazing seasons but for the shitty one he just endured. Not the worst thing in the world, but still not maximizing his value at what should be its peak.

Brees will get more than $30-40M guaranteed, in fact, he'd be silly to sign for anything less than $50M guaranteed because he's already been hosed by his current GM and his former GM...if anybody deserves a pay day, it's Brees. And if the Saints don't want to pay, that's fine, there are plenty of suitors who are ready to pay for Brees who will have one less year of wear and tear on his body.

Two years. Under the current CBA, a player can be franchise tagged in back to back years (that's the max, though...so he'd be free after that). If you're the Saints and the deal doesn't get done, why not tag him again next year? Unless Brees actually becomes a free agent, his rights still belong to the team and so he theoretically could have to repeat this process next off-season.

It won't happen. They'll get a deal done. But the hardball staring contest would be interesting...

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Tim Tebow ‏ @TirnTebow

Reply
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Favorite
· Open

It's done... Heading to the #Jaguars! Can't wait to be home! #NFL

EDIT: Michael Lombardi retweeted this but as we can see its a fake.

Easiest way to tell it was a fake wasn't even spelling Tim "T I R N," it was the lack of mentioning Jesus.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Tim Tebow ‏ @TirnTebow

Reply
Retweet
Favorite
· Open

It's done... Heading to the #Jaguars! Can't wait to be home! #NFL

EDIT: Michael Lombardi retweeted this but as we can see its a fake.

Fake Brian Burke was hilarious. Some of the other parody accounts that have been set up have also been very funny. But I don't see the point in this recent trend of setting up fake twitter accounts just to report believable incorrect news and then lolzing when people think it's real.

[Julio Riddols]

So Peyton (Sean) is not coaching this season. I'm sure the suspensions on the players will be harsh as well.. The Saints might just implode with the shitstorms colliding in their area this offseason.

Edit: Also losing their 2nd round picks this year and next.

[stevew]

Odd story late today that Tebow could choose the Jets or Jags and still chose the Jets. I suppose from a missionary standpoint, the Jets have more and darker souls to save.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by stevew

Odd story late tiday that Tebow could choose the Jets or Jags and still chose the Jets. I suppose from a missionary standpoint, the Jets have more and darker souls to save.

Probably an easier shot at the #1 QB spot.

[Danny]

Not really surprising. Despite all the flack they take, the Jets are in a much better position to win than the Jaguars. And I think Tebow cares more about winning than personal accolades.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Danny

And I think Tebow cares more about winning than personal accolades.

Or playing time, apparently.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Or playing time, apparently.

He's behind Mark Sanchez, not someone who is actually a good QB.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

In the sport they play there is risk of injury. I dont see how you think its right if Drew Brees(the vice president of the NFL Players Association Executive Committee) decides to spit in the face of the many others than have had to take on this designation by not doing it.

If you really think Brees will get over 50m guaranteed you are crazy. Peyton Manning who was far closer to the Colts brass and had been with that franchise longer was only guaranteed 28m a year ago on that extension he signed. This is a player that HAD NEVER been injured or missed a game.

I am not saying whats right or wrong but Brees is really the wrong person to complain about something he signed on and agreed upon. Is he saying its ok if Cam Newton gets franchised but its not ok for the same to happen to him? If he didnt want the franchise they shouldnt have agreed to it.

WTF are you talking about? He's not "spitting in the face" of anyone. He has every right not to sign the Franchise Tender offer, just like he has every right not to sign any contract. His leverage is that the team will suck without him. So he has every right to not sign the tender and use that leverage to get a better deal. And he WILL get a better deal.

By the way, Peyton got $34.5m guaranteed for his extension in 2009. Mario Williams just got $50m guaranteed. Calvin Johnson just got $60m guaranteed. As such, Brees getting $40-$50m guaranteed is probably in the right ballpark with a total contract value in the neighborhood of $95-$105m, with the total duration of the deal being 5 years or so.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Danny

He's behind Mark Sanchez, not someone who is actually a good QB.

But on the Jags, his competition would be Chad Henne and Luke McCown. Not much of a fan of Sanchez, but he's much better than either of them. (Hell, I'd might even say as bad as Tebow is, he's even better than them.)

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Danny

He's behind Mark Sanchez, not someone who is actually a good QB.

As opposed to Blaine Gabbert, who actually was the worst full time starter in the league last year by quite a way?

[sabotai]

Oh yeah......and Blaine Gabbert

[Danny]

I actually don't think Sanchez is any better than Henne. In fact Sanchez has a lower career QB rating despite playing on a much better team

[Danny]

I'm not trying to hype up Tebow btw, I just think Sanchez is really bad.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Oh yeah......and Blaine Gabbert

Easy to miss him as he's been busy finishing up tax returns before the deadline.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The problem I see isn't the QB's ostensibly in front of Tebow on the depth chart, it's the franchise's likely willingness to rebuild a team to suit his skill set.