Werewolf CXXXIII - The Dark Knight - MOBSTERS WIN

[dzilla77]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

dzilla had his mauboy text vote in the latest, and from a vibe standpoint has been the one who seems most "off" in terms of villager play. Just hard to make reads on a guy who I don't think I've played with before ...

Lathum had his Mauboy text vote in early. Jackal had his in pre-reveal. I'll try to do some more post/vote analysis later tonight if I'm online in time but for now:

VOTE DZILLA77

Huh???

Three people voted Mau after I did. Also, I had my vote on Mau before his fake reveal, but changed it right after it (and changed it back when the flaw in his reveal was pointed out.)

But as I said to Chubby, if you want to push the lynch to me go right ahead. It will only expose you to mob scrutiny.

[dzilla77]

And with regard to why I voted Zinto over Danny - Danny's play on day 1 was WAY, WAY, WAY over the top. It was obvious he wanted the lynch, and whenever somebody wants the lynch, its never a good thing for the village. I was not going to be one of the votes that enabled it.

[Abe Sargent]

Morning all1

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I don't think J23 says "go ahead and vote me instead of revealed players so you can sort it out tomorrow" as a wolf. I think if we go the J23 route that we will find ourselves down one more villager.

I've used that tactic as a wolf many times. It has never worked, but I've tried.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by mckerney

QUOTE=Abe Sargent;2479146]I have to admit there is some logic here

Not sure I follow it, didn't Chubby try early to get people to go no kill and save both of them? And I'm not sure what he could have done later on to sacrifice himself without looking too obvious.[/quote]

Yeah, I hear you. After reading the characters, I;m thinking Brutal for The Chechen, and Cunning for either Sal or Lau (or both I suppose). Lau was added later, so my guess is that Sal was the initial Cunning. Would you sacrifice a vanilla wolf or the Brutal for a Cunning? I would. What mob are left - Lau, The Chechen, Gambol. Only Lau sounds like he might have an ability that's not your norm. Why not try that play?

I agree, that it seems less likely that Chubs would play well enough to avoid text death when the alternate is his Cunning? teammate.

I think there are better places to look on D3 than Chubby.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

FWIW, I do not think we should play the Joker's game today. We need to see if he has the random kill ability that is claimed. The Joker is a friend to neither the mob nor the village. He helped the village yesterday. Does anyone want to take odds he'll do so again today?

I agree with this.

My most likely vote candidates remain unchanged from this morning.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Not sure I follow it, didn't Chubby try early to get people to go no kill and save both of them? And I'm not sure what he could have done later on to sacrifice himself without looking too obvious.

Yeah, I hear you. After reading the characters, I;m thinking Brutal for The Chechen, and Cunning for either Sal or Lau (or both I suppose). Lau was added later, so my guess is that Sal was the initial Cunning. Would you sacrifice a vanilla wolf or the Brutal for a Cunning? I would. What mob are left - Lau, The Chechen, Gambol. Only Lau sounds like he might have an ability that's not your norm. Why not try that play?

I agree, that it seems less likely that Chubs would play well enough to avoid text death when the alternate is his Cunning? teammate.

I think there are better places to look on D3 than Chubby.[/quote]

This is full of assumptions, though. Even if Chubby plays sloppily and gets himself killed to protect mau, it still doesn't take mau out of the woods. Even if at some point there was a scan and it came out good, we'd still have the cunning thought going around anyway. Realistically, their position at this point sucked however they cut it as two wolves, and the scenario you guys are talking about seems really complicated for the EV it seems like it would provide.

[Abe Sargent]

This thread is being very sleepy for a Friday. It needs to be all woke up. Let's get you some energy

[Thomkal]

Just a quick check in here-I should be more free the rest of the day. Given that we now know Mauboy was a wolf, I'd like to take a look at those who wanted us to vote no text kill at some point during the day. Anybody have a list?

As for the Joker's game today-I think we should try to play it as a regular WW day for now, then in early evening decide if we are playing along and vote J23 out. That way we get some vote analysis for later rather than just a slamdunk on J23 if that's the route we decide to go.

Oh and let me bring this up again. J23 you NEED to tell us fairly soon if you are a regular citizen of Gotham or a roled citizen (Dawes, Gordon, or Batman). None of this craziness like last night when we weren't able to save Harvey Dent in time. If you are a citizen we need time to evaluate your claim, and more importantly time to protect you if you are a roled citizen.

[J23]

I've said a number of times in the thread that I'm vanilla. No role.

[J23]

As far as going along with the Joker today, I think it's a bad idea in general, and particularly bad with myself being the one that will die.

If the village does end up caving today and lynching me to appease the Joker, I'd urge you guys to not continue to do so in the future.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

FWIW, I do not think we should play the Joker's game today. We need to see if he has the random kill ability that is claimed. The Joker is a friend to neither the mob nor the village. He helped the village yesterday. Does anyone want to take odds he'll do so again today?

While he helped the village yesterday he did not help us in the actual vote. The Joker told us why he picked Mau and Chubby yesterday so my question to him is why J23?

[Zinto]

If Chubby is a villager I think we need to look at a few of the people who, early in the day voted for him, Abe and Mckereny. I am actually really interested in prodding McKerney into posting since the only thing I can remember him doing is fake revealing and the doing other fake reveals.

[Zinto]

I think that is where I am going to place my vote at this point even though I was debating on waiting and seeing if Danny answers my question and what the answer is.

Vote McKerney

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Oh and let me bring this up again. J23 you NEED to tell us fairly soon if you are a regular citizen of Gotham or a roled citizen (Dawes, Gordon, or Batman). None of this craziness like last night when we weren't able to save Harvey Dent in time. If you are a citizen we need time to evaluate your claim, and more importantly time to protect you if you are a roled citizen.

You realize that he already said he was vanila?

We had a whole conversation about that. I pushed him a bit here in the thread on that. I like pushing people, it helps to know where they are at.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Zinto

If Chubby is a villager I think we need to look at a few of the people who, early in the day voted for him, Abe and Mckereny.

Since we don;t know if he is right now, I think that analysis is a bit early, but of course mckerney is on my radar for other reasons.

[The Jackal]

I don't feel confident enough about J being a wolf to consider it worth playing into the Joker's game. So I think I will be looking elsewhere, and we'll see what happens as far as Joker retribution.

[J23]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

You realize that he already said he was vanila?

We had a whole conversation about that. I pushed him a bit here in the thread on that. I like pushing people, it helps to know where they are at.

We didn't have a conversation about whether or not I was a vanilla, and you didn't "push" me on that. You pushed about why I didn't vote for myself last night and before that it was about not going along with the text kills yesterday.

I don't know if you're being purposely misleading or if I'm just more aware of it since both cases have involved me.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Zinto

I think that is where I am going to place my vote at this point even though I was debating on waiting and seeing if Danny answers my question and what the answer is.

Vote McKerney

I didn't pick mauboy for the killing, but I did put in the 5th vote on him during day one. I don't think that's a move a wolf would make. Plus I'm still not certain that Chubby was a bad choice either, I think he and mauboy both going no kill doesn't look good for Chubby.

And as for the reveal, I still believe it would have been a good idea to take out Danny with a mass reveal and lynch. I'm not convinced of his claims that he'd know who Batman was in that situation and that he'd be able to reveal it to the mobsters. Even though The Joker being in play helped us out yesterday I still think that he could really hurt the village. That's why I didn't like people voting for him day one, that's why I wanted him taken out yesterday. I get that some villagers don't agree with that move, but I don't agree that someone wanting to go through with that plan is strong evidence of a wolf. I think it would be best to look at people who voted Danny even though it clearly seemed like a bad idea, especially when we're put in a situation today where we could end up losing 3 citizens and could very well face the same thing tomorrow.

[dzilla77]

So lets look at hoops' voting record:
Day 1 late switch to bhlloy (from Danny)
Day 2 J23
Text Mau (after my vote)
So hoops votes for a known roled villager late on Day 1 yet criticizes my vote on Zinto suggesting it should have been on Danny (after he switched from Danny)
He then votes the same lynch canidate as me on day 2
He also votes for the same text kill candidate as me *after* I did and calls my "late" vote suspicious.
　
This just screams wolf
Vote hoops

[J23]

you forgot to mention that he's still alive.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

You realize that he already said he was vanila?

We had a whole conversation about that. I pushed him a bit here in the thread on that. I like pushing people, it helps to know where they are at.

Yes that was yesterday before he became the next subject of the Joker's game. I just wanted to make sure his claim hadn't and would not change now the he is said subject.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I didn't pick mauboy for the killing, but I did put in the 5th vote on him during day one. I don't think that's a move a wolf would make. Plus I'm still not certain that Chubby was a bad choice either, I think he and mauboy both going no kill doesn't look good for Chubby.

Chubby very well could be a member of the mafia but at this point early votes for him look worse then early ones on Mau since he is still an unknown. I will agree with you that your vote on Mau makes me feel a little better about you and is something I did not notice when I placed my vote. While at first I figured that a wolf could vote for Mau and gain trust for it later(which I am sure happened) I can not see a wolf placing the fifth vote and vaulting him into the lead in that situation.

Unvote McKerney

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Who Will Gotham Kill?

Mauboy - narcizo (626), chief rum (722), lathum (753), Tyrith (772), ntndeacon (777), zinto (786), mrbug708 (795)
Chubby - mckerney (663), abe sargent (714), PackerFan (787)
No Kill - Chubby (627), mauboy (633), J23 (661)

Bringing up this vote count now that we know that Mauboy was the leader of the Mob. This is where Mauboy started to go way ahead in the vote. I have to think there would be some attempt early on to try to save him. So if I decide not to vote J23 today (or Danny see future post), I'm likely voting for one of the following: McKerney, Abe, Packer or J23. The No Kill from Chubby makes sense since was on the block, but of course does not clear him from being a member of the Mob. But I'm not inclined to vote him over the others.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Gotham City Breaking News Vote Count

1 ntn - zinto (281)
5 mauboy - packerfanatic (201), mrbug708 (291), darth vilus (360), mckerney (385), tyrith (411)
6 danny - thomkal (302), J23 (412), bhlloy (434), chubby (514), danny (508), mauboy (509)
4 zinto - lathum (321), ntndeacon (348), the jackal (363), dzilla7 (371)
3 bhlloy - narcizo (339), JAG (342), hoopsguy (478)
1 narcizo - abe sargent (389)
1 no lynch - chief rum (391)

This is your last chance to double check.

the vote count from day 1 looking at it now that we know about mauboy. mauboy was the early leader. Jackal put the third vote on zinto shortly after darth put the third on Mauboy. Dzilla7 put Zinto ahead at that time. McKerney then voted Mauboy which makes him look better than my previous post. Two now known citizens of Gotham were on Bhlloy, along with Hoops. I find it hard the mob would take out both of the Bhlloy voters if Hoops was a member of the Mob given the voting pressure put on mauboy from the start of the game, but who knows there really.

That leaves the mostly late run on Danny. Just to be official here, I was the first to vote for him, so conceivably be part of the mob plan to try to lynch danny instead of their leader. There's J23 again, as well as Chubby, and Mauboy of course. I actually look like a good candidate from this group of six, but I am a citizen as I've said all along. Given what we know of this group though, is it really possible the only wolf that tried to save him was himself? That means I have to think one or both J23 and Chubby are members of the Mob.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by J23

We didn't have a conversation about whether or not I was a vanilla, and you didn't "push" me on that. You pushed about why I didn't vote for myself last night and before that it was about not going along with the text kills yesterday.

I don't know if you're being purposely misleading or if I'm just more aware of it since both cases have involved me.

Since the whole situation was predicted on the claim that you were vanilla, thus voteable, then my follow through question was "If you are a vanilla villager, why not just vote for yourself." They were absolutely connected.

[Darth Vilus]

Well only about 4 pages to read through, that"s good

[Darth Vilus]

Awesome that we got a mobster, and a big one at that :-) sucks about dent though. Sorry bhlloy, his reveal came too late, i had already left for work, couldnt have switched it

[Darth Vilus]

personally i think that the joker is batman hunting. just my way of thinking, dont have any evidence to support it

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Bringing up this vote count now that we know that Mauboy was the leader of the Mob. This is where Mauboy started to go way ahead in the vote. I have to think there would be some attempt early on to try to save him. So if I decide not to vote J23 today (or Danny see future post), I'm likely voting for one of the following: McKerney, Abe, Packer or J23. The No Kill from Chubby makes sense since was on the block, but of course does not clear him from being a member of the Mob. But I'm not inclined to vote him over the others.

In my defense, while I had a real reason for voting Chubby, I also pushed all day, hard, that we not vote no kill text. I even voted for J23 in part because he did. I wouldn't push that hard on Day Two if I were a wolf and had the leader of my band under the radarscope. I might do it later. I might do it if we had lost a wolf in Day One lynch, but on a normal Day Two, I'm not that super vocal about pushing a vote that has a 50/590 chance of killing my boss.

[Chubby]

I like how everyone thinks I'm a shitty wolf which will help in future games but I'm still a vanilla citizen in this one.

Danny might still end up my vote but for now...

Vote PackerFanatic/Schimidty

I mean, seriously like 5 posts? (no i haven't counted them)

I still will not play the Joker's games for reasons I have stated many times.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

11 Mauboy - narcizo (626), chief rum (722), lathum (753), ntndeacon (777), mrbug708 (795), the jackal (811), bhlloy (912), dzilla77 (926), thomkal (937), hoopsguy (958), abe sargent (961)
7 Chubby - mckerney (663), PackerFan (787), darth vilus (866), Tyrith (876), J23 (945), zinto (948), mauboy (964)
1 No Kill - Chubby (627)

This is what I have for texts.

And here's the official vote from last night. We can look at the late switchers to Mauboy as members of the mob trying to look good or those who saw his fake reveal and moved to make sure he was the "winner" of the Joker's game. You will no doubt notice that I am one of them. But I was the one who pointed out that Mauboy's reveal had to be fake. I'm certainly not doing that if I'm a member of the Mob.

Then we have the people who stayed on Chubby even after Mauboy's reveal. Some weren't here for sure, but I think all of them have to be a iittle suspect especially the two who stayed or moved on to Chubby as he began to get votes later in the day to see if any movement would happen. That would make J23 and Zinto's vote stand out more than the other Chubby voters in my mind. If both mauboy and Chubby are members of the Mob, I'm not sure this vote count helps us too much other than the likelihood that they would try to save the probably stronger mauboy over Chubby due to his role.

And then we have J23's offer to sacrifice himself-at first that seemed like a truly villager thing to do, but if he's cunning or has a power that would make him appear as a citizen of Gotham upon death then given his other votes in connection to that, its possible that he's a member of the Mob. But had I been in his situation, given that I'm a regular citizen of Gotham, I would have offered up that sacrifice as well and my voting record is pretty bad too. So not sure which way to feel about J23 right now.

[Darth Vilus]

On an unrelated issue how are you able to check how many posts you have?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And here's the official vote from last night. We can look at the late switchers to Mauboy as members of the mob trying to look good or those who saw his fake reveal and moved to make sure he was the "winner" of the Joker's game. You will no doubt notice that I am one of them. But I was the one who pointed out that Mauboy's reveal had to be fake. I'm certainly not doing that if I'm a member of the Mob.

Then we have the people who stayed on Chubby even after Mauboy's reveal. Some weren't here for sure, but I think all of them have to be a iittle suspect especially the two who stayed or moved on to Chubby as he began to get votes later in the day to see if any movement would happen. That would make J23 and Zinto's vote stand out more than the other Chubby voters in my mind. If both mauboy and Chubby are members of the Mob, I'm not sure this vote count helps us too much other than the likelihood that they would try to save the probably stronger mauboy over Chubby due to his role.

And then we have J23's offer to sacrifice himself-at first that seemed like a truly villager thing to do, but if he's cunning or has a power that would make him appear as a citizen of Gotham upon death then given his other votes in connection to that, its possible that he's a member of the Mob. But had I been in his situation, given that I'm a regular citizen of Gotham, I would have offered up that sacrifice as well and my voting record is pretty bad too. So not sure which way to feel about J23 right now.

If I was mob why wouldn't I have:
a) tried to save the leader of the mob or
b) piled on when mau's shitty fake reveal blew up in his face?

/shrug asI have stated all game long, you can lock me up/kill me off all any one wants. It just means the roled Gothamites stay safe for another round.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Zinto

While he helped the village yesterday he did not help us in the actual vote. The Joker told us why he picked Mau and Chubby yesterday so my question to him is why J23?

Because I felt like it

[Danny]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I don't feel confident enough about J being a wolf to consider it worth playing into the Joker's game. So I think I will be looking elsewhere, and we'll see what happens as far as Joker retribution.

Perhaps you will die, or perhaps it will be another.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

personally i think that the joker is batman hunting. just my way of thinking, dont have any evidence to support it

It was pretty obvious J23 was not batman.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

On an unrelated issue how are you able to check how many posts you have?

On the werewolf list of thread, where it has the number of posts for the thread listed, click that and a window will pop open with post counts for the thread.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Zinto

While he helped the village yesterday he did not help us in the actual vote. The Joker told us why he picked Mau and Chubby yesterday so my question to him is why J23?

FWIW, I didn't vote bhlloy because I knew he was roled, I picked him because he was not being cooperative. As I've said, outside of batman, I don't care who or what any of you are. I'll vote and do as I see fit based on my whims.

[Thomkal]

Okay here's my thought about what to do with the vote tonight. If J23 came out and said he was a roled citizen, it would be the best move in my opinion to all vote Danny instead of J23 and take the risk of hitting Batman. Remember we citizens now have to get the Joker out of the game too. Batman would need to reveal at some point so any bodyguards about could protect him as the Joker will likely publically reveal Batman's identity anyway before his lynch and blessed silencing could take place. We are going to have to seriously think about doing this tomorrow if we don't do it tonight. We dont know what other games the Joker will have us play, and if they take out multiple players every day we citizens are in big trouble.

Despite my commentary above, I'm leaning towards J23 being exactly what he said he is, a unroled citizen who was willing to do what a villager should do in a situation like last night-sacrifice themselves in an attempt to save a roled citizen of Gotham in Bhlloy. So if he is willing to make that sacrifice again today, it may be the better idea to play the Joker's game today and then try to take him out tomorrow.

what does everybody else think of this?

[Darth Vilus]

Originally Posted by Danny

It was pretty obvious J23 was not batman.

then why pick him?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

then why pick him?

Why not? He seemed to be volunteering himself for death anyway. Seems he's not so fond of that idea now though.

[J23]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And then we have J23's offer to sacrifice himself-at first that seemed like a truly villager thing to do, but if he's cunning or has a power that would make him appear as a citizen of Gotham upon death then given his other votes in connection to that, its possible that he's a member of the Mob. But had I been in his situation, given that I'm a regular citizen of Gotham, I would have offered up that sacrifice as well and my voting record is pretty bad too. So not sure which way to feel about J23 right now.

I could see this play if I was the cunning possibly. It would be pretty risky given the fact that I was actually close to being lynched at the time (though it was 9:57pm when I brought it up the first time, plenty of people were thread-watching).

If it was a power to show up as a citizen after death (a pretty terrible power), what would have been gained if I got lynched there? It would have saved the roled villager, not the mob boss. What information does the village get from my death other than voting for the Joker two nights in a row?

[Danny]

In a non roleplay post, why I would I pick who I thought was Batman? If I did, you guys would obviously pick a random player anyway, so what would be the point.

[Lathum]

Vote Zinto

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Vote Zinto

I forgot you were playing in this game

[J23]

Originally Posted by Danny

Why not? He seemed to be volunteering himself for death anyway. Seems he's not so fond of that idea now though.

It really doesn't matter if I'm voted out. I'm just not a fan of doing what the Joker tells the citizens to do.

[MrBug708]

Not necessarily...especially if you ware hunting

[Danny]

Originally Posted by J23

It really doesn't matter if I'm voted out. I'm just not a fan of doing what the Joker tells the citizens to do.

Then I chose wisely and you shall die.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Chubby

If I was mob why wouldn't I have:
a) tried to save the leader of the mob or
b) piled on when mau's shitty fake reveal blew up in his face?

/shrug asI have stated all game long, you can lock me up/kill me off all any one wants. It just means the roled Gothamites stay safe for another round.

From the way you started playing the game Chubby, I felt strongly you were a citizen and only slightly less do given what I posted about your votes. But of course none of us but the Joker are revealed, so have to keep the door open a little bit on the possibility you are a member of the Mob. Like I said above though, I was not inclined to vote for you today over the other people mentioned in that post.