Werewolf XXXI: House of Frankenstein (Game Over)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Exactly why im on chief...quiet, UTR, has avoided being in hte lynch(like his vote on schmidty today)...trying to hide to me

Actually, the reason you state here is why I voted for Schmidty and said as much this morning. I know he's a tested vet, and felt he was being way too quiet. At the time, I didn't have much else to go on.

I think we all have a lot to go on now, though, don't we, Blade?

Let what happens in two days, happen in two days. But I certainly hope we won't be letting Blade slick his way out of a lynch tomorrow. If he does that, he truly will be a badass WW player.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Actually, the reason you state here is why I voted for Schmidty and said as much this morning. I know he's a tested vet, and felt he was being way too quiet. At the time, I didn't have much else to go on.

I think we all have a lot to go on now, though, don't we, Blade?

Let what happens in two days, happen in two days. But I certainly hope we won't be letting Blade slick his way out of a lynch tomorrow. If he does that, he truly will be a badass WW player.

I wont be around much tomorrow, have to work during the day with no net access...ill deal with you later, ive got a date to go pick up..cheerd all, sleep tight

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I wont be around much tomorrow, have to work during the day with no net access...ill deal with you later, ive got a date to go pick up..cheerd all, sleep tight

trying to get lucky 2 times in one night eh?

[Abe Sargent]

Snap!

[Barkeep49]

Ok let's view this from the simplest perspective: How is Blade not bad? I mean the guy is still alive (argument A for his being bad) & he was saved by the bad guys (argument B for his being bad). He can play the "ohh woe is me" all he wants. Well he should feel woe. He should die.

Vote Blade

[DaddyTorgo]

yep. if the bad guys save you you prolly ought to die. there's an occam's razor choice for ya. i hafta say that i agree with barkeep on this one. especially since blade managed to have 3 villagers on his list this last time around.

VOTE BLADE

[Barkeep49]

Thanks for reminding me of that Daddy. Hiding in plain sight can be a great tactic for a bad guy. AFterall who would be "dumb" enough to kill the people they're most suspicious of? I mean it's so obvious it couldn't be true, right? Except that of course means it could be true. Very, very true.

[DaddyTorgo]

yep. and blade seemed quite quick to form that "circle of trust" which if you notice, he was the only one promoting. he's been the 'circle of trust is our best defense' guy all along. in fact, IIRC, SunDvls never even posted anything to the effect of "sweet i trust blade back!" it's more like the whole COT is blade's invention to make himself seem...indispensible.

[Barkeep49]

Actually COT is our best hope. I just don't remember how Blade came to his conclusion. Does anybody? It is important we form a COT and the sooner the better. I just don't think we've got a basis, from what I've seen, to do it yet. And I'm no help in getting it done right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

how can our COT hope to survive without bodyguards or anything though? at least...if it's at all public, or if the wolves are analyzing our voting records, they'll just pick the people off or hide among them if it's too big

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Actually COT is our best hope. I just don't remember how Blade came to his conclusion. Does anybody? It is important we form a COT and the sooner the better. I just don't think we've got a basis, from what I've seen, to do it yet. And I'm no help in getting it done right now.

I am not certain, but I suspect there was a little bit of movement towards a circle of trust when a few people tried to put feelers out with their initial PM information. But, st. cronin has said that virtually everyone was made aware of the PM description that the "simple villagers" got.

Keep in mind that we also, presumably, still have the masons working for us, as well. I have no idea what type of numbers they have, or if the even still exist, but if there are even a handful of them left, they give us a little bit of voting block advantage.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

how can our COT hope to survive without bodyguards or anything though? at least...if it's at all public, or if the wolves are analyzing our voting records, they'll just pick the people off or hide among them if it's too big

Because bad guys can only kill 1 person per day. Our COT is bigger. So while they try and knockoff people inside our COT, and let's not forget we think, but don't know, that there isn't a a bodyguard, we narrow the field outside the circle. You might be right that it might be slightly too early, but 7 good guys are dead and no bad guys. That leaves us anywhere from 10-5 to 12-3. At 10-5 we're rapidly running out of time. Now I think it's more likely we're at 11-4, but with Dracula still out there another double kill isn't out of the realm of possiblity.

[bulletsponge]

there is no way to verify if someone is good ( i dont think) or bad. no seers, bodyguards or anything fancy, didnt want to scare the newbies off by making it to complicated.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

there is no way to verify if someone is good ( i dont think) or bad. no seers, bodyguards or anything fancy, didnt want to scare the newbies off by making it to complicated.

Then we'll have to do it the old fashioned way. Back in the olden days we sometimes lose the seers early on in a game and we'd STILL form a circle of trust. It's just harder. We've goten spoiled. Content. Complacement. But we can still root these bad guys out.

[hoopsguy]

Gather 'round the campfire and listen to old man Barkeep spin a yarn about days of werewolf gone by. Before them newfangled games with the pretty backstory. When it was a group of men against wolves, period.

No seers.
No bodyguards.
No one with a frigging lightsaber, spell, or kung fu grip.

When men were men and they hunted wolves.

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i think if blade is a villager, you and fouts both die, one after the other. that much is clear.

Now you're getting it. Goddamn, this is fascinating. Catching up -- still a half an hour to deadline!

[Abe Sargent]

Then I'll wait on ya, path

[Abe Sargent]

And when you get to that "Shit!" moment, I'll be here to hold your hand

[tanglewood]

Well I'm going to go with what seems the best option, the simplest option really at the moment.

Vote Blade

To me, with everything that's transpired, it's much more likely he is guilty than not.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I would like to applaud the wolves. I bet Blade is a villager, and now instead of wasting one day killing Blade, we'll waste two days going after Blade tomorrow.


*applauds*

Sometimes I feel like the Cassandra character of our little play.

I think you're right on. Wow.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Fouts

It is good to know that Lathum and I were right all along. Both of us are villagers.

Huh? Lathum being good doesn't prove a thing about you.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Okay, here's someone I want to take a look at. What's his post history, what has he done so far, etc.

SnDvls

I'm not saying I'd vote for him, I just want to see us explore him.

I might add Tanglewood to that list.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Actually COT is our best hope. I just don't remember how Blade came to his conclusion. Does anybody? It is important we form a COT and the sooner the better. I just don't think we've got a basis, from what I've seen, to do it yet. And I'm no help in getting it done right now.

If you're in Schmidty's spot, you're in mine. Everyone else is dead though.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yep. and blade seemed quite quick to form that "circle of trust" which if you notice, he was the only one promoting. he's been the 'circle of trust is our best defense' guy all along. in fact, IIRC, SunDvls never even posted anything to the effect of "sweet i trust blade back!" it's more like the whole COT is blade's invention to make himself seem...indispensible.

just a FYI...I was never in a COT w/ anyone. I'll I said was I have an uneasy feeling about fouts and was voting w/ blade on that one.

I guess blade could be bad, but he just doesn't seem to be himself in this game. Usually if he's good he's throwing everything at a wall and hoping something sticks...here he's playing it safe, slow, and very low. I can't remember the last time he was bad.

I honestly don't know which way to go, but I don't like how convient the Blade vote/pile on has become.

I"m off to bed to think this over.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I am not certain, but I suspect there was a little bit of movement towards a circle of trust when a few people tried to put feelers out with their initial PM information. But, st. cronin has said that virtually everyone was made aware of the PM description that the "simple villagers" got.

I think he had to put that out there as a balance when the whole thing went public. Remember, he was just back from vacation and it was a hurried start. I think that the inital group was valid no matter what cronin said publicly.

But it was never more that myself, Alan T, GoldenEagle and Schmidty. I've been on record as leaning toward Blade being good, but I've never linked myself to him like I did the others (though as I was catching up I noticed he linked to me).

That said, I think some of the newer players are reading way too much into the whole 'can we trust the COT' thing. And some are actually trying so hard to discredit the idea that they are moving higher on my list. This particular COT has little actual effect in this game now.

[path12]

I've got to ponder this. This has been an excellent day of WW.

Barkeep makes a strong point -- there is a time where there's just too much evidence, and you've got to follow through on it. Blade is going to have to die soon and it might as well be now as later.......but I'm not ready yet to say I think he's bad. At this moment I think that there is at least one and likely multiple wolves in the Blade voters.

Helluva game, cronin.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

yep. and blade seemed quite quick to form that "circle of trust" which if you notice, he was the only one promoting. he's been the 'circle of trust is our best defense' guy all along. in fact, IIRC, SunDvls never even posted anything to the effect of "sweet i trust blade back!" it's more like the whole COT is blade's invention to make himself seem...indispensible.

Sndvls is not apart of my COT, never has been, and i dont know why people keep linking us. It was Path who first revealed the idea, one i had been using to bait you specifically not like 5 posts before. It involves path, schmidty, alan(now dead villager), and somewhat gramat and eagles(now dead as all, also a villager)

[Blade6119]

Barkeep, et tu? Do you really believe, in the deep reccesses of your heart, i would kill all 3 people i suspected(and if i was bad, i would pick 3 villagers). If you want to kill me, im quite content to go down as long as you make sure when i come up a villager you kill chief(and maybe anxiety, depending on chiefs outcome). They have made my death wayyy too convenient, and i hope you dont walk right into their plans.

Im sorry im not going off the wall defending myself, but as you all note when i play my normal game i die day 1-3...its now day 4, so my new style met my goal of helping me live longer. I can throw shit on the walls again as someone put it, but then id already be dead.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

how can our COT hope to survive without bodyguards or anything though? at least...if it's at all public, or if the wolves are analyzing our voting records, they'll just pick the people off or hide among them if it's too big

Note, of the 5 people in the COT, 2 are dead and im all but dead...the last 2 night kills by the wolves have come from our COT that no one seems to trust(alan and GE)

[Blade6119]

dola, and ill repeat the list(even though path is now trying to distance himself from me, hes apart of mine)

Blade
Schmidty(who is now Barkeep)
Path
Gramat
Alan
GE

Ok, thats 5 not including me...my error there

[bulletsponge]

did anyone else get a Godfather dejavu last night? all Blades enemies got wacked and then the first thing he does is point the finger at a "wolf" to draw suspicion away from him?
if they wanted you dead so bad why didnt they just kill you the first few nights? instead the evil dr uses both of his ace cards to set you up instead of saving them for a real wolf or himself? is that your theory?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

did anyone else get a Godfather dejavu last night? all Blades enemies got wacked and then the first thing he does is point the finger at a "wolf" to draw suspicion away from him?
if they wanted you dead so bad why didnt they just kill you the first few nights? instead the evil dr uses both of his ace cards to set you up instead of saving them for a real wolf or himself? is that your theory?

They dont want me bad deadly, they want the group to spend their lynches, the only weapon they have, on villagers. Yesterdays moves ensured that happens again today, instead of another fairly wide open vote. I am just a pawn in their chess game, and you are using your only piece to chase me around the board while they position for checkmate. To be fair, id imagine the acutal Dr. has been under no danger so far this game, not a hint, so he figures he can use his powers now as he doesnt expect heat. Hence chief and anxiety, chief namely, make sense. He has stayed far from any heat, and has actively tried to seem distant and confused. The wolves arent an any danger, hence their moves. Suprisingly, after calling our chief, suddenly he has things to say..odd how that works...

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by path12

Helluva game, cronin.

Thanks! I have to say, it's mostly the players, though - I've had very little to do. I'm very impressed with the participation.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

They dont want me bad deadly, they want the group to spend their lynches, the only weapon they have, on villagers. .

Lathum was pretty much a gonner before the momentum swiched to you. Did Dr. R use his powers so that instead of you dying before Lathum, that Lathum would die before you instead? What sense does that make?

Blade might be Dr. R. Since he's on the wolves' team, it makes perfect sense to try to knock of a mason or two before he died (and loses the Frankenstein power).

Yes, Blade counts as a human in victory conditions. But, as long as he's around, he'll vote in the interests of the wolves, and he'll continue to convince vilagers that he's not evil. We'd be better off without him

And of course, Blade could be a wolf. But the villager option still makes no sense to me.

Vote Blade

After this, I think we really have to focus on ties (Which Blade was vocally oppossed to by the way). Villagers are running out of time, and our best remaining advantage is the masons. Masons are useless without ties, and there's little time left to attempt to "save" them until the end.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by molson

Lathum was pretty much a gonner before the momentum swiched to you. Did Dr. R use his powers so that instead of you dying before Lathum, that Lathum would die before you instead? What sense does that make?

Blade might be Dr. R. Since he's on the wolves' team, it makes perfect sense to try to knock of a mason or two before he died (and loses the Frankenstein power).

Yes, Blade counts as a human in victory conditions. But, as long as he's around, he'll vote in the interests of the wolves, and he'll continue to convince vilagers that he's not evil. We'd be better off without him

And of course, Blade could be a wolf. But the villager option still makes no sense to me.

Vote Blade

After this, I think we really have to focus on ties (Which Blade was vocally oppossed to by the way). Villagers are running out of time, and our best remaining advantage is the masons. Masons are useless without ties, and there's little time left to attempt to "save" them until the end.

If i was Dr. R, i wouldnt have swapped it to lathum...it incriminates me too much. If i was a wolf, and he was trying to save me, why go out and kill fouts that night(which dr. r did) and incriminate blade more? It doesnt make sense, if you connect the dots.

Every move made, the lathum kill, the fouts kill, and the GE kill, all point to me...as a bad guy, wolf or Dr, moves would be made to incriminate someone else with the kills.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

You know, it seemed a little too convenient that it was Lathum who ended up getting killed, while Blade and he were running neck and neck all day.

Vote Blade

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

If i was Dr. R, i wouldnt have swapped it to lathum...it incriminates me too much. If i was a wolf, and he was trying to save me, why go out and kill fouts that night(which dr. r did) and incriminate blade more? It doesnt make sense, if you connect the dots.

Every move made, the lathum kill, the fouts kill, and the GE kill, all point to me...as a bad guy, wolf or Dr, moves would be made to incriminate someone else with the kills.

Let me get this straight: If you were Dr. R you would die rather than you your power? C'mon.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Gather 'round the campfire and listen to old man Barkeep spin a yarn about days of werewolf gone by. Before them newfangled games with the pretty backstory. When it was a group of men against wolves, period.

No seers.
No bodyguards.
No one with a frigging lightsaber, spell, or kung fu grip.

When men were men and they hunted wolves.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

You know, it seemed a little too convenient that it was Lathum who ended up getting killed, while Blade and he were running neck and neck all day.

Vote Blade

Fouts and lathum were neck and neck all day...right at the deadline they swayed it to me...

COME ON GUYS, CONNECT THE DOTS!! The path laid before you is far too easy, please think

[Grammaticus]

Best evidence we have so far is the bad guy saving Blade. That makes Blade the highest probability of being a wolf or potentially being the Duke (Dr. Raimen). Either way it is the best strategy to get Blade off the table. Otherwise we will be dealing with this smoke screen ongoing.

Also, getting rid of Dr. Raimen is huge. He scans each round, effectively being a seer for the bad guys. Eventually he will out our Masons and any other specialty role that could have been hidden. That is not worth his headcount.

VOTE BLADE

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Let me get this straight: If you were Dr. R you would die rather than you your power? C'mon.

I would have used it, but not on lathum. I would have killed someone who gave me a scapegoat. Killing lathum points to me...there were other options to swap to that would have given me more outs today

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Barkeep, et tu? Do you really believe, in the deep reccesses of your heart, i would kill all 3 people i suspected(and if i was bad, i would pick 3 villagers).

You make an interesting point about choosing 3 villagers. But then again if you were Dr. R you'd harldy know they were 3 villagers. So to summerize do I believe you'd really knock off all the people on your list? Yes.

If you want to kill me, im quite content to go down as long as you make sure when i come up a villager you kill chief(and maybe anxiety, depending on chiefs outcome). They have made my death wayyy too convenient, and i hope you dont walk right into their plans.

I'll admit right here that I haven't been reading this game as carefully as I would have if I'd been playing from the start. Can you explain to me, with post numbers if possible, what you're driving at here?

Im sorry im not going off the wall defending myself, but as you all note when i play my normal game i die day 1-3...its now day 4, so my new style met my goal of helping me live longer. I can throw shit on the walls again as someone put it, but then id already be dead.

Well I'd actually argue that your being alive on Day 4 is partially to explain you being a bad guy when there was a definite "kill the active vets" strategy in Day's 1-3.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I would have used it, but not on lathum. I would have killed someone who gave me a scapegoat. Killing lathum points to me...there were other options to swap to that would have given me more outs today

Ok so who do you think is Mr. R? We have the advantage of knowing that it isn't some people, like Farrah or path, who were gone at the time the stuff went down. So if you're innocent build up a case against someone else. Doing that is not going off the deepend it's defending yourself.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Fouts and lathum were neck and neck all day...right at the deadline they swayed it to me...

COME ON GUYS, CONNECT THE DOTS!! The path laid before you is far too easy, please think

I'm stupid. What's the path? We know both Lathum AND Fouts were good guys. So two good guys were neck and neck all day and both decided to switch to someone else. How is that exonerating evidence for you?

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Fouts and lathum were neck and neck all day...right at the deadline they swayed it to me...

COME ON GUYS, CONNECT THE DOTS!! The path laid before you is far too easy, please think

Ah, the begging begins. You sound like you know you're going to get staked today or something....

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm stupid. What's the path? We know both Lathum AND Fouts were good guys. So two good guys were neck and neck all day and both decided to switch to someone else. How is that exonerating evidence for you?

The top part of my quote was correcting farrahs comment...the bottom part was to everyone...Everything that has happened points to me, tells you to lynch me, and pretty much makes me look like satan. As a bad guy, i would think you would assume im good enough to not incriminate myself with my every move.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Ah, the begging begins. You sound like you know you're going to get staked today or something....

Have you been reading the thread? The only people defending me are the people im accusing lol...im a goner, im just making sure you know where to go tomorrow

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I would have used it, but not on lathum. I would have killed someone who gave me a scapegoat. Killing lathum points to me...there were other options to swap to that would have given me more outs today

Agreed, on using the power. The Blade I know would sacrifice anything to use his special power

In all seriousness, your best strategy after being fingered as a wolf in yesterdays debacle, is to create overwhelming evidence that you are being "setup". It is your only small chance of trying to talk your way out of a lynching of which now you have no escape power.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

The top part of my quote was correcting farrahs comment...the bottom part was to everyone...Everything that has happened points to me, tells you to lynch me, and pretty much makes me look like satan. As a bad guy, i would think you would assume im good enough to not incriminate myself with my every move.

But that's the thing. There was a period there where people were believing you. Then I cast the first vote and things went down hill for you. But your defense worked for several hours. It was remarkable really.

I admit there's a certain reasoning to your "would I do everything possible to make myself look bad" reasoning. But if you're not, say Dr. R, why does he chose to use Frankenstine last night? One suggestion is that he wouldn't use him before he died.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

You make an interesting point about choosing 3 villagers. But then again if you were Dr. R you'd harldy know they were 3 villagers. So to summerize do I believe you'd really knock off all the people on your list? Yes.

Then im dissapointed in you barkeep...i thought you thought me more devious and under-handed then that.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'll admit right here that I haven't been reading this game as carefully as I would have if I'd been playing from the start. Can you explain to me, with post numbers if possible, what you're driving at here?

Can you re-read every posts in the last 20 pages...every move made from the day 3 lynch to now has made me look terrible....from bad, to worse, to damned...the path has been laid before you meaning my death. You are using today to lynch me like they want, and tomorrow, unless you listen to me about chief and anxiety, you will be lost and in a deep hole.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Well I'd actually argue that your being alive on Day 4 is partially to explain you being a bad guy when there was a definite "kill the active vets" strategy in Day's 1-3.

Anxiety himself explains it to you, so let me pass his own behind the scenes wisdom to you:

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Im not surprised. If I had been the chooser of the WW on night one, I would have used the "kill the vets" stratgey but I would have chosen good vets who are not as high profile as Blade, so there is less of a chance of a hidden bodyguard block. Like SnDvls, for example. Saldana was a solid choice as well, and I'm not surprised to see his name called. I would not, however, have hit Blade. I think that would be a rookie mistake, because if you are a BG, who else are you gonna guard Night One?


Honestly, I see the saldana and Alan T hits as smart. Get good vets but not high profile ones. I like that strategy a lot. I think that shows savvy and I suspect that at least one WW is a vet.

They have killed vets, and left blade, who always draws heat...its a given ill die, so why waste a night doing it when you are all doing it for them