Werewolf XXII - Way of the Colt - Game over, congrats samurai!

[saldana]

god damn it, we just gave the Ninja back the save we got last night.

we just spent the entire day to learn absolutly nothing.

honorable Kurosawa is going back to the bar.

[tanglewood]

Well that's a bit of a let down.

Should be an interesting night and morning.

[PackerFanatic]

Being my first WW game, I don't even have anything to base it off of, so I couldn't really say what roles could even come into play, which is why I am most intrigued

[Lathum]

and that kids, is why a tie is a bad thing.

a major win for the ninja's.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

It is not I that have granted them their lives, but instead the collective samurai of this village."

Anyone have any idea what this means?

Edit: Never mind, I read it wrong. It seems fairly straightforward.

Edit x2: Well, straightforwarder. Hmm.... Still not sure I guess. lol

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Anyone have any idea what this means?

exactly what i was looking at...seems odd...

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

i really wonder whos going down...My blind ass, someone off the radar, tangle or lathum for fun

If those were the choices I'd bet someone off the radar. You're done and Tanglewood and Lathum are both lynch candidates.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Lathum

a major win for the ninja's.

Not so certain it was a win. Blade is right.. chuck said he was saving the collective Samurai of the village which is an odd statement.

[path12]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Anyone have any idea what this means?

Edit: Never mind, I read it wrong. It seems fairly straightforward.

Edit x2: Well, straightforwarder. Hmm.... Still not sure I guess. lol

It looks pretty straightforward to me. But I gravitate towards the obvious.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

exactly what i was looking at...seems odd...

I think it means we have no tie breaker or if someone did have the option they chose not to which is an odd play IMO.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by path12

It looks pretty straightforward to me. But I gravitate towards the obvious.

And what do you gain from the statement?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Not so certain it was a win. Blade is right.. chuck said he was saving the collective Samurai of the village which is an odd statement.

Mustang-san, Chuck said that the collective samurai saved lathum and tanglewood, not Chuck saving the samurai.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Not so certain it was a win. Blade is right.. chuck said he was saving the collective Samurai of the village which is an odd statement.

No, Chuck is said that he did not save anyone, the collective Samurai did by not voting for someone with a majority. It is a win for the Ninja because every day where a lynch does not occur, the Ninja percentage of winning the game goes up.

[kingfc22]

Okay, I'm off to watch my Tivo. Tomorrow I will be here in the afternoon, but not at night since I am working a closing shift.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Mustang-san, Chuck said that the collective samurai saved lathum and tanglewood, not Chuck saving the samurai.

Ahhh... yes, that would make sense.

From that, I would gather there is absolutely no tiebreaker.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Not so certain it was a win. Blade is right.. chuck said he was saving the collective Samurai of the village which is an odd statement.

I'm not sure:

"It is not I that have granted them their lives, but instead the collective samurai of this village."

Could simply mean that it is not Chuck Norris who has spared us, but the collective samurai (by voting a tie) who have inadvartently spared us both.

OR

It is not our lives we have been spared, but the Samurai of this village. However, if it is this second meaning it is worded very oddly.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Mustang

And what do you gain from the statement?

That the collective samurai have saved them by not making a clear choice. So no tiebreak.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

It is not our lives we have been spared, but the Samurai of this village. However, if it is this second meaning it is worded very oddly.

Both make sense. If it was the 2nd, I could take from that that both of you are innocent and that in getting a tie, we spared both of you (and ourselves) from an innocent loss.

Now.. granted.. that is possibly an extreme interpretation...

[Lathum]

I think chuck's statment mearly meant that he collective votes of the village saved our lives. I wouldn't read to much into that statment

[tanglewood]

Again, this sucks. I was almost looking forward to dying and proving myself a samurai and helping the village with info.

Lynch candidates for tommorow: Me & Lathum again obviously, Gramm for going against the consensus (although his position looks a lot better now than it did when he did it).

Ninja kill candidates? I don't think any of the above will be killed, why would the ninjas bother? Blade, perhaps, as he is pretty much a lock as samurai and them killing a confirmed good guy is more valuable than a non-confirmed one. However they will feel Blade's role as bodyguard now being gone means they can continue to hunt for other roles without having to worry about him.

Other thoughts: When was the last ime Qwik posted? He has been quite quiet and I thought he was usually fairly active in WW threads?

[Blade6119]

I still think mustang is my pick for tomorrow, but thats just me...note that everyone before i die(possible)

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Lynch candidates for tommorow: Me & Lathum again obviously, Gramm for going against the consensus (although his position looks a lot better now than it did when he did it).

I think it would have to be either you or Lathum has to go tomorrow. Either of you goes it is more revealing about the rest of us (including myself and Gramm)

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Again, this sucks. I was almost looking forward to dying and proving myself a samurai and helping the village with info.

Lynch candidates for tommorow: Me & Lathum again obviously, Gramm for going against the consensus (although his position looks a lot better now than it did when he did it).

Ninja kill candidates? I don't think any of the above will be killed, why would the ninjas bother? Blade, perhaps, as he is pretty much a lock as samurai and them killing a confirmed good guy is more valuable than a non-confirmed one. However they will feel Blade's role as bodyguard now being gone means they can continue to hunt for other roles without having to worry about him.

Other thoughts: When was the last ime Qwik posted? He has been quite quiet and I thought he was usually fairly active in WW threads?

It is interesting that you left AlanT off this list of lynch candidates. He is the swing vote that caused a tie that resulted in a setback for the Samurai and he was on the Fozzie vote with you Tanglewood. He also just saved you from getting lynched. Very convenient to leave him off your lynch list. Almost like a great big thank you.

I think you are including me in your lynch list in hopes to get some traction there and move the focus from yourself. Last I saw there was no big consensus to create a tie, just a bunch of people who did not want to make a move and decided to let things stand. You may have had 3 or 4 people who vocalized a desire for a tie, if that many.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I still think mustang is my pick for tomorrow, but thats just me...note that everyone before i die(possible)

Not sure I follow why... killing me tomorrow proves nothing especially when you find out I'm a Samurai. Then you'll really have a wasted day again. You still have the unknown with Lathum and Tangle and Gramm. Best cause for us Samurai is that one of them is a Ninja, particularly Tangle and that would go a ways in clearing both me and Gramm.

Unless you think I'm a Ninja and that ballsy in possibly attempting to have another party member killed by forcing a tie.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Not sure I follow why... killing me tomorrow proves nothing especially when you find out I'm a Samurai. Then you'll really have a wasted day again. You still have the unknown with Lathum and Tangle and Gramm. Best cause for us Samurai is that one of them is a Ninja, particularly Tangle and that would go a ways in clearing both me and Gramm.

Unless you think I'm a Ninja and that ballsy in possibly attempting to have another party member killed...

becuase i still think both of the two on the block today were samurai...i think the tie was good, as while we didnt kill a ninja we didnt kill a villager...we hurt the ninjas with that, as their goal is to get 1-1..in my mind, lynching either would put us down a villager and make the ninjas that much closer. We have gone through 3 villager killing phases and we has lost 1 villager...i think thats damn good

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

becuase i still think both of the two on the block today were samurai...i think the tie was good, as while we didnt kill a ninja we didnt kill a villager...

Exactly it was good for the villagers as no one was lost.

Well then, if you think I'm a ninja and both of them were Samurai, why would I want to force a tie then? Forcing a tie gives the Ninja a 50/50 chance that no one will die.

If I'm a Ninja, I sit back and just let Lathum or Tangle die. There is no benefit in a Ninja keeping known villagers around.

If you are a Ninja, you whittle the numbers as quick as possible... not hope to whittle the numbers.

[Alan T]

Well, I'm not sure how anyone can know before hand that there were no tiebreakers, but it looks like i unfortunatly tied myself to tanglewood (who i had actually voted for earlier) by doing this. I guess now I better hope tanglewood ends up being a samurai, or I am toast too.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Exactly it was good for the villagers as no one was lost.

Well then, if you think I'm a ninja and both of them were Samurai, why would I want to force a tie then? Forcing a tie gives the Ninja a 50/50 chance that no one will die.

If I'm a Ninja, I sit back and just let Lathum or Tangle die. There is no benefit in a Ninja keeping known villagers around.

If you are a Ninja, you whittle the numbers as quick as possible... not hope to whittle the numbers.

If your a ninja you assume there is a tie-breaker like the rest of us

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

If your a ninja you assume there is a tie-breaker like the rest of us

Assumption. If both were Samurai, why even risk the potential of there not being a tiebreaker.

[Blade6119]

ONE LAST THOUGHT ON THE TIE:

IN PAST GAMES THE TIE-BREAKER MERELY MEANT THE TIE-BREAKERS VOTE COUNTED FOR TWO...ITS POSSIBLE WE HAVE ONE, BUT HE DIDNT NOT VOTE FOR TANGLE OR LATHUM...THERE FOR WE COULD STILL HAVE A TIE-BREAKER THAT DIDNT COME INTO EFFECT HERE...JUST A THOUGHT

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Assumption. If both were Samurai, why even risk the potential of there not being a tiebreaker.

I have never been in a game where there was not some form of tie-breaker...hence why im inclined to believe what i posted just now one above this

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

It is interesting that you left AlanT off this list of lynch candidates. He is the swing vote that caused a tie that resulted in a setback for the Samurai and he was on the Fozzie vote with you Tanglewood. He also just saved you from getting lynched. Very convenient to leave him off your lynch list. Almost like a great big thank you.

I think you are including me in your lynch list in hopes to get some traction there and move the focus from yourself. Last I saw there was no big consensus to create a tie, just a bunch of people who did not want to make a move and decided to let things stand. You may have had 3 or 4 people who vocalized a desire for a tie, if that many.

True, I forgot about Alan T, he didn't cross my mind when creating the list. I guess one could add him as a possible lynch candidate but I see what he did more as following the consensus village position than any personal motive. Just look at the immediate reactions to his vote switch, most everyone in the thread seemed relieved. There were 12/13 in the thread at the time IIRC and off the top of my head 4 or 5 replied seeming relieved. Presumably if the others wanted someting else they would either switch votes or at least state their position.

So, if we take the creation of a tie via consensus as given (obviously you disagree, but if anyone had any objections they were not voiced), then what you did on the other hand was very much against the consensus village position, therefore more notable than Alan T following it, therefore more worthy of being noted in a possible lynch list. Add in the general actions and demeanour of dubb and I think it creates an interesting situation.

I am borderline considering voluenteering to be lynched tommorow, provided nothing unusual happens during the night. It was to me Gramm switched his vote so, if both me and Lathum are samurai, it would provide more info if I were to die than Lathum (thouh if Lathum were lynched it could be infered, but not explicit). However, this would be guarenteeing a samurai death tommorow, which is never a good thing, and it would be more valuable to go hunting real ninja as opposed to finding out what the frig happened the previous day.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Assumption. If both were Samurai, why even risk the potential of there not being a tiebreaker.

if i thought voting for you would have mattered i would have, but one of those two were going down and i wanted a tie-breaker so we could clear a villager(the tiebreaker)...if i didnt think one was coming, i would have stuck on you

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

if i thought voting for you would have mattered i would have, but one of those two were going down and i wanted a tie-breaker so we could clear a villager(the tiebreaker)...if i didnt think one was coming, i would have stuck on you

I'm talking about me voting. Not you.

You think I'm a ninja and the others are Samurai so, why would I (not you) risk a potential tiebreaker where no Samurai would die?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I'm talking about me voting. Not you.

You think I'm a ninja and the others are Samurai so, why would I (not you) risk a potential tiebreaker where no Samurai would die?

becuase if i was a ninja i would still be 99.9 % sure there was a tie-breaker(i have no idea how a ninja could have known), and therefore your vote looks villagerish, and the tie breaker makes sure either lathum or tangle dies...the wolves never have the tie-breaker, so up until hoops posted lynch results every wolf thought a tie would be broken

[hoopsguy]

At this point I am going to bed. Will post night actions tomorrow morning when I have them. And we can then hammer out the most equitable time to end Day 3.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

becuase if i was a ninja i would still be 99.9 % sure there was a tie-breaker

2 choices.

Door #1 - 100% certain you will get a million dollars.

Door #2 - 99.9% cetain you will get a million dollars
- .1% chance you get nothing

Which door do you take?

Ya sure, I get your point.. you think that in my eyes I have nothing to lose, there just has to be a tiebreaker.

Sorry but, in my eyes, If I'm a Ninja, I'm already on the chopping block, I give absolutely nothing to chance and I go with the known.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

ONE LAST THOUGHT ON THE TIE:

IN PAST GAMES THE TIE-BREAKER MERELY MEANT THE TIE-BREAKERS VOTE COUNTED FOR TWO...ITS POSSIBLE WE HAVE ONE, BUT HE DIDNT NOT VOTE FOR TANGLE OR LATHUM...THERE FOR WE COULD STILL HAVE A TIE-BREAKER THAT DIDNT COME INTO EFFECT HERE...JUST A THOUGHT

This is definately possible. Although my moving the vote off a tie, gave the potential tie breaker person who would have been sitting on another candidate the opportunity to move to Lathum and re-make a tie, using their role to create a situation that clears them.

Couple of things. One bad guys have tie breaker roles too (in past games). Two, the potential tie-breaker was not on the board at the time (was everyone who did not have a vote on Tangle or Lathum online at vote deadline?) Or Three, the potential tie breaker person did not want to out themselves and kept their vote on a third person. Of course their is the possibility that there is simply no tie breaker role.

It could have gone either way, in this case going for the tie caused a setback. Good thing is it is early in the game and we can rebound.

Blade and Mustang, when you say it was good because a Samurai did not die, that does not make sense. If that was the case, don't lynch anyone unless you are sure and see if that strategy ever garners a win for the Samurai. Bottom line is, over the long run no lynch = net gain for the Ninja.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Blade and Mustang, when you say it was good because a Samurai did not die, that does not make sense. If that was the case, don't lynch anyone unless you are sure and see if that strategy ever garners a win for the Samurai. Bottom line is, over the long run no lynch = net gain for the Ninja.

Blade is under the assumption that both are innocent so, it was a good thing neither died... I am of the opinion that it is better that an innocent didn't die.

Best case - Ninja dead, Neutral - No one, Bad - Samurai dies.

[Lathum]

OK, I am off to bed.
I have to work during the day tomorrow and then have a doctors appointment after work so I won't be around much. Please don't take my silence the wrong way. I am leaning towards AlanT right now, he has tried to spread the suspiscion around and Saldana made some good points about him.

That is assuming I am still alive.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

True, I forgot about Alan T, he didn't cross my mind when creating the list. I guess one could add him as a possible lynch candidate but I see what he did more as following the consensus village position than any personal motive. Just look at the immediate reactions to his vote switch, most everyone in the thread seemed relieved. There were 12/13 in the thread at the time IIRC and off the top of my head 4 or 5 replied seeming relieved. Presumably if the others wanted someting else they would either switch votes or at least state their position.

For reference, I checked. After my vote change Blade expressed dissappointment (2 times), he obviously wanted a tie. Alan switched his vote and said it was to counter my vote change, indicating he wanted a tie or wanted to protect you. Mustang indicated he would have switched if he could, indicating he wanted a tie. Then you thanked AlanT for moving it back to a tie, which really indicates you just wanted to survive, no real feelings on a tie for the sake of a tie. So that sums up to 3 people expressing a desire for a tie (Blade, Alan and Mustang, not counting you cause it saved you). No one else expressed tie support. As I said before, most people don't want to put themselves out there and commit one way or the other. Don't fool yourself thinking there was a big consensus for a tie.

I've played the tie game before, most people don't want it and will not be vocal about it, just in case it works. Now that you are on the short end of it, you are trying to sugar coat it.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Blade is under the assumption that both are innocent so, it was a good thing neither died... I am of the opinion that it is better that an innocent didn't die.

Best case - Ninja dead, Neutral - No one, Bad - Samurai dies.

Don't fool yourself or anyone else. A tie that results in no lynch is not good, unless a player uses a special ability to save a Samurai (that did not happen). If that were the case, we would not have lynched anyone on day one under the premise of "hey, no good guys died, whoopee, we are doing good". Repeat that tomorrow, etc.

You cannot kill a Ninja unless you try. If that does not make sense, then nothing will.

[Desnudo]

We are in the same boat tomorrow as we were today, except that a samurai will probably die tonight now that blade can no longer protect anyone. A tie where no one dies is not a good thing.

[tanglewood]

Off to bed. See everyone tomorrow.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

For reference, I checked. After my vote change Blade expressed dissappointment (2 times), he obviously wanted a tie. Alan switched his vote and said it was to counter my vote change, indicating he wanted a tie or wanted to protect you. Mustang indicated he would have switched if he could, indicating he wanted a tie. Then you thanked AlanT for moving it back to a tie, which really indicates you just wanted to survive, no real feelings on a tie for the sake of a tie. So that sums up to 3 people expressing a desire for a tie (Blade, Alan and Mustang, not counting you cause it saved you). No one else expressed tie support. As I said before, most people don't want to put themselves out there and commit one way or the other. Don't fool yourself thinking there was a big consensus for a tie.

I've played the tie game before, most people don't want it and will not be vocal about it, just in case it works. Now that you are on the short end of it, you are trying to sugar coat it.

The tie gambit made sense, since it was reasonable to assume that a tiebreaker would occur. Obviously in hindsight, it was not a good move, but I understand why people did it.

[saldana]

honorable Kurosawa agrees totally with the statements on Grammaticus-san regarding that this fiasco was not beneficial to our noble cause. we have made no progress towards our goal of eliminating the Ninja, and they have eliminated our bodyguard, and will eliminate one of us tonight. i thought the tie was a bad idea, but unfortunately could not be on the board at the deadline to break it by moving my vote, despite the risk to myself in doing so (stupid job)

Alant-san's actions add even more suspicion on my part to his already substantial Ninja profile. If I am dead in the morning, I cannot stress enough my belief that his is Ninja.

also, I fear for all of your safety when Shogun Norris-sama sees how many of you have insulted him by not paying him the respect he deserves when referring to his esteemed self.

[Coder]

Oh boy.. is Chuck a ninja?

Seriously, I'm going to look deeper into this later.. haven't had time to read everything but I have a meeting I need to go to.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Lathum

and that kids, is why a tie is a bad thing.

a major win for the ninja's.

A win for the ninjas if one of theirs was on the block. A win for the village if only a samurai would have lost his life.

[TazFTW]

Jack Bauer would have shot both of them...

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

A win for the ninjas if one of theirs was on the block. A win for the village if only a samurai would have lost his life.

It's still a win for the ninja no matter what, since they already know who's who.. we're still in the dark.