EA Sport "NFL HEAD COACH"

[Groundhog]

From what I'm reading it sounds like everything is pretty fun and decent in the game with the exception of the draft and the actual games themselves. Those are two pretty big break-points. As fun as the other stuff is, if my QB is throwing for 6 interceptions that are getting returned for TDs it's going to get shelved quickly.

I'm definately holding off until the modders get their hands on it. The fact that the game re-gens the settings upon exit shouldn't be much of an obstacle; just create a batch file to launch the app that will copy over the settings each time you load the app.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

From what I'm reading it sounds like everything is pretty fun and decent in the game with the exception of the draft and the actual games themselves. Those are two pretty big break-points. As fun as the other stuff is, if my QB is throwing for 6 interceptions that are getting returned for TDs it's going to get shelved quickly.

I'm definately holding off until the modders get their hands on it. The fact that the game re-gens the settings upon exit shouldn't be much of an obstacle; just create a batch file to launch the app that will copy over the settings each time you load the app.

oh batch files, i remember the days of fighting with those until Jeff solved my pain. shudder at those weeks before he helped.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by TroyF

No way in hell an NFL team drafts TWO QB's in the first round to compete for their QB job. That's pure insanity. That's an AI gone mad.

edit: when I say it's an AI gone mad, the way I judge it is by fictional rosters. Lets say I don't know how good each of these players all. Could I justify the moves? Up to the point of drafting Cutler, maybe. But the second they take another QB in round 1, is the second I can't even suspend reality for. You just can't justify that sort of thing.

So, no one remembers Jimmy Johnson drafting Troy Aikman in the first round of the 1989 NFL draft, the turning around and selecting Steve Walsh in the first round of the 1989 Supplemental draft, which cost the Cowboys the No. 1 overall pick in the 1990 draft?

I'm not defending it because it's not my role to defend the game. But when people say something like that would never happen, I think they often ignore two important facts: (1) on this message bored alone, we'll have people sim more NFL Head Coach seasons in one day than there NFL seasons in history -- with a sample size like that, crazy things will absolutely happen; (2) completely ignore historical examples of things they are critizing just to try and prove their point.

I see the same thing happen with FOF, especially with real rosters. People forget that Michael Vick is a nothing but ones and zeroes to the AI -- the AI doesn't know about the hype of Michael Vick. The AI looks at the ratings -- which I in the game for a lot of players I think are below public perception for those players -- and sees where it can improve ratings wise.

If EA is looking to tighten up the game, I think there are other areas to look at first. The draft doesn't look like a problem to me at all -- it is our perception of these people interferring with how the AI sees these players and what their in-game ratings are.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

Here is my quick review with something more detailed later.

I got the game yesterday at 11am and player pretty much non-stop till 11pm, 12 hours – and I didn’t even make it to the first pre-season game!!!! In fact it too me something like 7 hours to make it to the draft.

Now, some of that was do to learning the interface, and the timing of everything. But much of that has to do with how poorly the interface is designed. I can understand the thinking behind the fact that during office hours you would only have time to insert 2 plays into the playbook (with the reasoning that behind the scenes, you would have to meet with the players, draw it up on the chalkboard, talk about it and then walk through it on the field – so OK I can buy that) But to switch 2 players on the depth chart and have that take the entire office hours up is simply silly to me. If you want to make 7 or 8 changes to your depth chart and make some formation substitutions – well that is going to take you about a weeks worth of office hours.

Having said all that for the most part I had a LOT of fun, but I don’t know how much fun this is going to be the next time I have to go through it.

A quick note on the 5 minute quarter thing – I haven’t even played a game yet, I and many others have voiced my concerns but one thing is abundantly clear – The primary defenders of the 5 minute quarters rallying cry is that the “average” gamer isn’t going to want to spend that much time playing a game whose quarters are longer then 5 minutes. After playing the game for 12 hours and not even making it to a game, that statement has gone from off-base to downright laughable. The “average” gamer who doesn’t have time for qtrs beyond 5 minutes will have returned this game after playing for 3 hours and not even coming close to playing a game.

On to the draft – still not perfect – but better then any previous NFL game – this was pretty good and came as close to the feel of the real draft as much as any game I have played. The first 3 rounds I actually sat and watched every pick and didn’t “fast-forward” at all. I do think they need to add a “pick-now” button. Right now your choices are to wait the entire 30 seconds per team or fast forward to your pick. 30 seconds doesn’t sound long until there are 40 picks between your picks and then it takes a long time. If they added a “pick-now” feature you could still see every pick, but make it though in a reasonable time. Again I am wondering what the 5 minute “average” gamer is doing here?

So on the drat, I think the AI here still need a lot of work.

A couple of notes:

• OK we get it, somebody on the development team went to Ohio St. Hawk went first in my draft as well as every draft I have seen posted. It is not that I have a problem with him going first, especially if he was a “real-life” consensus #1 along the lines say of a John Elway – but he isn’t that IRL so I would have liked to see more variety here with any number of players going #1 overall. Also I think it is funny that the official game guide lists 5 players that would be the Texans “top draft prospects” and Hawk isn’t one of them.
• So I am playing the Niners and when we get to pick #6 – Bush is still there – I half wonder if the development team made a decision that people “want” to draft Bush because he is exciting and made sure he would be available in the first part of the draft. Either way I considering going another direction, but my 8 year old son was looking over my shoulder and saying “Daddy, you HAVE to draft Bush!!!” so I took him. I must say he looks pretty good in practice.
• This part actually made me laugh out loud – with the #9 overall pick the Detroit Lions take… yep, you guessed it a WR!!! Santonio Holmes.
• Vince Young – So in my off-season much like the real world Niners I traded for a second – 1st round pick - #17 overall. So as I am watching the draft and watching Young fall – it is pick 15 the falcons, with the dolphins at #16 and then I am at #17. I am considering trying to trade up past the Dolphins. I don’t think the Falcons will draft a QB because they have Vick – but I am worried about the Dolphins (remember they don’t have Culpepper) But before I can put a deal together the Falcons draft Vince Young!!! WYF? All-right that is one scary QB combo, but now what do I do. At this point I no longer care about the Dolphins and my dream-team combo of Bush & Young isn’t going to happen. But just for kicks I call up the Falcons and see if they will send me Vick for the #17 pick. After all they don’t need both QB’s so why not – and they go for it – GREAT. I don’t get Vince Young but now I do have Vick and Bush. For a team as desperate for playmakers as the 49ers this is turning out quite nicely. Now here is where it gets kind of bad in the AI department. The Falcons having already taken Young at #15 and with their newly acquired #17 pick take…. QB Jay Cutler – WTF?!?!? Maybe Mora has some new dual QB offense I don’t know about it.

Well that is it for now, time to dive back in and hopefully actually play a game or two.

As bad as that AI logic sounds its not totally out of the realm of possibilities. In 1989 Dallas drafted Troy Aikmen with the #1 pick. In the supplimental draft for 1989 they selected Steve Walsh, QB from Miami which costed them there #1 pick in 1990. While its not quite the same, it had the same effect. They selected to QB's in the first round during the draft season. Walsh and Aiken entered the the season as rookies for the Cowboys and battled it out for about 1 or 2 years before Walsh lost.

With that being said, the draft of 2 QB's in the first round is still wacky.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

So, no one remembers Jimmy Johnson drafting Troy Aikman in the first round of the 1989 NFL draft, the turning around and selecting Steve Walsh in the first round of the 1989 Supplemental draft, which cost the Cowboys the No. 1 overall pick in the 1990 draft?

I'm not defending it because it's not my role to defend the game. But when people say something like that would never happen, I think they often ignore two important facts: (1) on this message bored alone, we'll have people sim more NFL Head Coach seasons in one day than there NFL seasons in history -- with a sample size like that, crazy things will absolutely happen; (2) completely ignore historical examples of things they are critizing just to try and prove their point.

I see the same thing happen with FOF, especially with real rosters. People forget that Michael Vick is a nothing but ones and zeroes to the AI -- the AI doesn't know about the hype of Michael Vick. The AI looks at the ratings -- which I in the game for a lot of players I think are below public perception for those players -- and sees where it can improve ratings wise.

If EA is looking to tighten up the game, I think there are other areas to look at first. The draft doesn't look like a problem to me at all -- it is our perception of these people interferring with how the AI sees these players and what their in-game ratings are.

Damn, I type to slow

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

So, no one remembers Jimmy Johnson drafting Troy Aikman in the first round of the 1989 NFL draft, the turning around and selecting Steve Walsh in the first round of the 1989 Supplemental draft, which cost the Cowboys the No. 1 overall pick in the 1990 draft?

I'm not defending it because it's not my role to defend the game. But when people say something like that would never happen, I think they often ignore two important facts: (1) on this message bored alone, we'll have people sim more NFL Head Coach seasons in one day than there NFL seasons in history -- with a sample size like that, crazy things will absolutely happen; (2) completely ignore historical examples of things they are critizing just to try and prove their point.

I see the same thing happen with FOF, especially with real rosters. People forget that Michael Vick is a nothing but ones and zeroes to the AI -- the AI doesn't know about the hype of Michael Vick. The AI looks at the ratings -- which I in the game for a lot of players I think are below public perception for those players -- and sees where it can improve ratings wise.

If EA is looking to tighten up the game, I think there are other areas to look at first. The draft doesn't look like a problem to me at all -- it is our perception of these people interferring with how the AI sees these players and what their in-game ratings are.

OK, I suppose I have to explain everything in a ridiculous amount of depth to get a point across. Here goes:

In the salary cap era, NOBODY will ever draft two QB's with first round picks in the same draft. NOBODY. EVER.

Now, if this game were based on what football was in the late 80's with no salary cap, an owner with a ton of cash who was willing to spend the money at all costs, a team that had 500 draft choices over a three year period and thought the QB was a steal in the supplamental draft? OK. You got me.

In this day and age? You are rarely going to see a team pick a QB two years in a row in round one. I could see scenarios where that happened (and SF would have been a perfect example this year if they'd have decided to do it), but even in that case, it would be an incredibly rare occurance.

Drafting two QB's in round 1 within three picks of each other is AI insanity. There isn't any other way to say it or defend it.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by mtolson

As bad as that AI logic sounds its not totally out of the realm of possibilities. In 1989 Dallas drafted Troy Aikmen with the #1 pick. In the supplimental draft for 1989 they selected Steve Walsh, QB from Miami which costed them there #1 pick in 1990. While its not quite the same, it had the same effect. They selected to QB's in the first round during the draft season. Walsh and Aiken entered the the season as rookies for the Cowboys and battled it out for about 1 or 2 years before Walsh lost.

With that being said, the draft of 2 QB's in the first round is still wacky.

When they traded Vick they ATE 24 million dollars in signing bonus. I don't see how some of you guys can defend this move.

[MacroGuru]

Alright, I am now at the point I am pulling my hair out. I have been trying to install this all night long.

I am now to the point I am going to uninstall my AV and ZoneAlarm....I have them both disabled right now. But this is getting to be a joke.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Alright, I am now at the point I am pulling my hair out. I have been trying to install this all night long.

I am now to the point I am going to uninstall my AV and ZoneAlarm....I have them both disabled right now. But this is getting to be a joke.

Have you checked their website? I had an install problem with Directx and found the solution on their website.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Have you checked their website? I had an install problem with Directx and found the solution on their website.

Yeah, it wasn't a directX problem...

but honestly, after 5 1/2 hours of messing with this damn thing, it comes down to someone doing piss poor QA testing on the install cycle....

I finally got it to work by having to uninstall my AV and ZoneAlarm, this to me is utter crap. disabling them should have worked, not going through and uninstalling them completely.

So it finally is installed, now at 11:30 pm and I have to get up early for work, this sucks ass.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by KWhit

When they traded Vick they ATE 24 million dollars in signing bonus. I don't see how some of you guys can defend this move.

Because if he plays to the top of his game, he's an 80 rated quarterback, and the Falcons start free agency in 2006 with 37 million free under the cap and 50+ players under contract. In those circumstances, 2006 is probably the best time to dump the guy, because a 65-80 rated scrambler isn't going to be a viable championship QB. After doing that, the Falcons will still have $12-15 million to play with in free agency and can find good players rather than filling roster minimums. But the flaw here seems to be based on the fact that Michael Vick isn't rated in a manner that justifies the $24 million in bonus money, rather than that the team chose not to build around such a player.

The two QBs in one round thing, I think, may be a case of draftees not showing up as part of the squad until after they're signed. As I posted earlier, the game wanted me to do some odd things that didn't take my earlier draft into account.

[AgustusM]

fun

yes, warts and all the game is fun.

5 minute quarters piss me off

clunky UI is a little annoying

weird AI I have all but come to expect.

but I just designed a play were I moved Reggie Bush to the slot and the first time I ran it - 80 yard TD - woo hoo!!!!!!

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

but I just designed a play were I moved Reggie Bush to the slot and the first time I ran it - 80 yard TD - woo hoo!!!!!!

And it doesn't bother you that that was so easy?

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by KWhit

And it doesn't bother you that that was so easy?

not sure how much in jest that is - but it is definitely NOT easy. In fact I was just going to post how pissed I am that I just threw a pick that was returned for 6. damn this game sucks!!!!

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

not sure how much in jest that is - but it is definitely NOT easy. In fact I was just going to post how pissed I am that I just threw a pick that was returned for 6. damn this game sucks!!!!

Heh.

I've just seen posts at other forums that mention the ability to create money plays that score way too often to be realistic.

I assumed that since you scored from 80 yards out the first time you ran the play that you may have created one of these broken money plays. But it may just be a fluke that you scored the first time you ran it. I'd be interested to see what the avg gain on that play is over the course of a season.

[XiaNaphryz]

Originally Posted by Izulde

The more I play this game, the more it's giving me a headache. It's a pain in the ass to navigate to the player you want and it also can't add.

I have 3 QBs signed and 2 SS. The game insists I only have 2 QB and 1 SS.

This is angering me.

Maybe the two missing players are holding out?

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Heh.

I've just seen posts at other forums that mention the ability to create money plays that score way too often to be realistic.

I assumed that since you scored from 80 yards out the first time you ran the play that you may have created one of these broken money plays. But it may just be a fluke that you scored the first time you ran it. I'd be interested to see what the avg gain on that play is over the course of a season.

I scored on it AGAIN the next time I ran it and started to get scared - then they stuffed it 3 plays in a row.

another thing that I am really liking is how different the games can be, much like the real life NFL. In my first game it was a defensive struggle that I won 13-7. right now I am capping off a 44-22 victory in game 2 of the pre-season.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by jaygr

and call me eye candy dork but I really love sitting in the office, in the meetings with coaches, actually seeing the coaches and owner, all that jazz.

Yeah, I actually like that part of the UI – the problems I have with the UI are just some simple things that don’t make sense. For example – if I want to change my depth chart I should be able to make unlimited changes to that and substitutions during office hours – only being able to make 2 changes at a time is annoying as hell and really doesn’t make any sense.

One good thing I noticed after changing my playbook 2 plays at a time was the “gameplan” meeting which only happens once a week, but in which you have unlimited access to changing your plays – this has sped up my playbook org quite a bit.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by KWhit

When they traded Vick they ATE 24 million dollars in signing bonus. I don't see how some of you guys can defend this move.

I don't think the salaries are correct - I don't remember what his numbers said but when I look at the Falcons now - they only have 4M in dead money.

Too bad they didn’t screw up Alex Smith’s contract – I am paying him 6M a year to be my backup.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

I don't think the salaries are correct - I don't remember what his numbers said but when I look at the Falcons now - they only have 4M in dead money.

I was looking in-game at his salary numbers to get the 24 mil. He has a cap figure of 4 mil per year in bonus money for the next 6 years. So you'll see the Falcons take a 4 mil cap hit this year and then next year they'll have 20 million in dead cap space.

[KWhit]

Dola -

I may be wrong but I can't ever remember an NFL team trading a guy who is owed that much money under the cap.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I was looking in-game at his salary numbers to get the 24 mil. He has a cap figure of 4 mil per year in bonus money for the next 6 years. So you'll see the Falcons take a 4 mil cap hit this year and then next year they'll have 20 million in dead cap space.

And two rookie QB's with first round bonus money eating up cap space.

It's always good for you when that much of your cap is handled by three QB's, one of which isn't on your roster.

[Darkiller]

stupid question:

is NFL HeadCoach multiplayer ? Will there be online league ?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Heh.

I've just seen posts at other forums that mention the ability to create money plays that score way too often to be realistic.

I assumed that since you scored from 80 yards out the first time you ran the play that you may have created one of these broken money plays. But it may just be a fluke that you scored the first time you ran it. I'd be interested to see what the avg gain on that play is over the course of a season.

At least in practice, none of my created plays were money plays. Maybe, I'm just a bad play designer

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Darkiller

stupid question:

is NFL HeadCoach multiplayer ? Will there be online league ?

You can play an exhibition game against someone, but there is no online league capacity at this time.

[Bee]

We need more impressions...I'm still on the fence about this game.

[Eaglesfan27]

Bee,

Personally, I can overlook everything but the high interceptions. They are just so high that they take the strategy out of the games. If that is modded (quarter length would probably be modded at the same time), I'd recommend this game as a fun game. However, I'd recommend holding off for now until modders can fix those issues (if they can.)

[Gary Gorski]

I'm surprised that there is as much positive talk about this game in this thread as there is - I picked it up yesterday and after 9 hours of game play I've actually got through the first exhibition game and to me HC is just a great idea with terrible execution. The things that annoy me far outweigh the things I like.

I took over the Lions and on the first day of free agency I was able to land Michael Strahan - apparently players don't care who they play for as long as you accept the contract demands of their agent and you get to act before any of the AI teams so I paid Strahan what he wanted and he was mine. I could have done that with anyone else in the FA pool too.

And like it seems in everyone else's draft Hawk went first and my pick at #9 was a no brainer with Reggie Bush on the board. Young went 15th I think and Jay Cutler 30th or something. Of course my scouting director suggested some other QB at #9 over both Young and Cutler and Bush as well. Then after drafting Bush (in addition to having Kevin Jones and the signed Moe Williams on the team as HBs and only Dan Orlovsky as the team's QB) he wants me to draft Addai (Im sure I spelled that wrong).

But the thing that pissed me off most about the draft is that you get roughly 30 seconds to try and make a trade. So much for trying to trade up. I think the 5 minutes you get for your own pick is fine but it's impossible to trade for a pick unless you're going for one like 10 picks from now. And then to top it off after you make X amount of trade attempts you can't trade anymore during that draft day. So in order to trade you have to be quick enough through the horrible UI to get a trade in that is going to be accepted since you don't have time to make a 2nd offer and you better make sure it will be accepted or else you will run out of trade attempts.

I also hate the fact that you have to schedule everything. Why can't I just sit down and make a trade when I feel like it? Why do I have to schedule trade time. And like others have said, the interface sucks. You cannot see any information about players at a glance - not even single players. You open up the roster screen and their names aren't even listed so the only way to find out anything about players is opening up each position and then you can view one at a time.

And to top if off the playcalling AI is just horrendous. Not only is there no real way to sub out your starters in pre season (you could manually sub them out in the game but the game is continuing while you do it so you basically would miss like an entire possession to sub players) but the plays it calls are stupid. I'm down 1 with a minute to go just behind midfield and two timeouts and guess what play it wants me to run...QB Kneel. WTF? And it suggests QB Kneel for every play in that final minute stretch - until I get to the opponent's 30 with 4 seconds left...and it suggests I punt. Maybe the opposing team's coach hacked into the frequency of my team's headsets and was trying to call the plays - either that or the AI blows. And of course the 5 min quarter thing sucks, the AI handles the last 2 minutes horribly (treating it like its the last 2 minutes of a quarter as opposed to the last 6) and there are virtually no penalties it seems and even when there are you have no idea what happened.

The "trust" thing is another good idea implemented terribly. My trust is like halfway down already because each week I tell the special teams coach I don't want Jason Hanson to be the punter. I don't understand why a) he asks the same damn thing every week and b) why I have to take a hit to the trust rating for telling the assistant coaches or scouting director no to something. You either do what they want or your trust rating goes down. I have the same gripe with motivating the players - you can't motivate them as a group because it seems half of them hate the option you chose and the other half liked it so you piss off half of them to motivate the other half.

There's some good ideas like the training camp drills but it's just not done very well at all overall IMO. What I don't get is you spend 5 hours of real time getting to the draft and getting all prepared and then the draft itself is over before you blink. I would much rather be able to get through all the preseason stuff in an hour and spend 2 or 3 hours doing the draft. Same thing with the gameplay. It's so rushed that you don't even feel like you have time to control anything. It's cool that you can talk to the players on the sideline - but if you do you either miss a play or run down the play clock so far that in reality you used up like 3-4 plays worth of time. If you had the full 15 minute quarter you could do stuff like talk to the players and then go back and call your play. Damn that was long but I was really looking forward to this and the design is just flawed beyond what any patch could repair.

[KWhit]

I agree with you Gary. I was really looking forward to this game, but it just sounds like it misses the mark for both the joystick jockeys as well as the sim crowd.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I was looking in-game at his salary numbers to get the 24 mil. He has a cap figure of 4 mil per year in bonus money for the next 6 years. So you'll see the Falcons take a 4 mil cap hit this year and then next year they'll have 20 million in dead cap space.

got it - makes sense. thanks.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by Darkiller

stupid question:

is NFL HeadCoach multiplayer ? Will there be online league ?

nope and nope

[CraigSca]

Wow - Gary just single-handedly stuck a fork in NFL Head Coach for me. Thanks for the honest assessment, Gary!

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I took over the Lions and on the first day of free agency I was able to land Michael Strahan - apparently players don't care who they play for as long as you accept the contract demands of their agent and you get to act before any of the AI teams so I paid Strahan what he wanted and he was mine. I could have done that with anyone else in the FA pool too.

It is hard to believe that Madden handles FA better then Head Coach - that is really inexcusable. Madden actually had a pretty good system for FA, at least in theory where players decisions were based upon 15 factors including team talent, winning, money, coach, etc. - IMO this was a great leap forward in FA decision making and one that was far more realistic. Why they didn't build upon this is totally beyond me.

Mostly I am unhappy to hear that Gary has wasted 9 hours playing a game when he should be working on Total Pro Basketball 2006!!!!!

[AgustusM]

much like I wanted OOTP2006 to be the pinnacle of baseball games, I wanted HC to be the pinnacle of football sims. Sadly neither has come close to the mark.

at least for me though 2006 is far more frustrating because it is the 7th version, but I give HC a little more leeway because it is only the first version.

having said all that there are some serious flaws in this game and I am by no means a fanboy of the game, I have said before I was looking for FOF with Madden graphics - I would honestly pay $1,000 for that game and this is not that game.

the one good news is, I am having fun playing and hoping like heck that we will get some modding options for quarter length and INT.

I do have to turn a blind eye to the fact that it is extremely lame that EA didn't bother to think those things through or even test them - EA can be quite the frustrating company.

[Darkiller]

Is a patch already in the works ?

I played the demo and while there are some good ideas, I'm afraid this might be yet another EA Sports "visual experience" and not a football simulation in the way we like it.

Obviously, we knew right away this wouldn't be FOF as far as the "easyness" of browsing through a player's card & specs but I have to admit that here, in HC, it is really ugly and absolutely uncomfortable to "see" a player on the roster screens.

I'm still very interested though...want more inputs.

[spleen1015]

Gary summed things up pretty well. While many of the things he pointed out don't get on my nerves, everything he said is 100% correct.

[AgustusM]

Gary -

I agree completely with your assessment - I think the problem was early on the people at EA who produce the Sims got lost and ended up in a Head Coach meeting.

There is far too much non-football stuff going on and idiotic comments like the guys from IGN who said it would have been "more fun" to have options for you coach to go golfing and buy more clothes are not helping.

This game has so much potential - I feel like I need the remote from the Adam Sandler movie "click" so I can go to the design meetings and set these people straight - I would especially like to make the guy who suggested 5 minute quarters to fall and break his leg on the way to the meeting.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

Gary -

I agree completely with your assessment - I think the problem was early on the people at EA who produce the Sims got lost and ended up in a Head Coach meeting.

It's funny because I was talking to someone else about HC yesterday and I said it's like they combined Madden with The Sims. Like I said before, I think its a great concept - the thought of combining EA graphics with the engines of a FOF or TPB or something is what I've always wanted to see in a sports game - so I'm pretty dissapointed in HC. Surprised, no - but dissapointed, yes.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

This game has so much potential - I feel like I need the remote from the Adam Sandler movie "click" so I can go to the design meetings and set these people straight - I would especially like to make the guy who suggested 5 minute quarters to fall and break his leg on the way to the meeting.

Damn, just when I thought they had worked a commercial for that movie into every possible venue, it pops up somewhere unexpected.

[Gary Gorski]

BTW, is it just me or is anyone else really annoyed by the fact that a splash screen pops up every time you go between tasks? I think I spent more time looking at splash screens in the time I played it than the time I got to spend doing the draft.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Damn, just when I thought they had worked a commercial for that movie into every possible venue, it pops up somewhere unexpected.

that is funny - from the reviews I read the movie isn't all that great - but I think the appeal of the idea is so universal - all I have seen is the commercials, but who wouldn't want to have a remote like that?

[Eaglesfan27]

I agree with most of what Gary says as well. I think the signing of players unopposed is a bug if he tried to sign them before the "UFA" period starts. The game will allow you to sign guys unopposed before that period.

Everything else he said is pretty spot on, yet the game was still quite fun for me until I played my first Pre-season game. I loved the training camp/practice drills.

I still think I'll enjoy this game if the interceptions can be cut way down and the quarter length can be changed.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

Agreed. While I am more optimistic about this game, I keep thinking I am being set up or something. I will still wait for reviews.

Dammit, this is what I feared. First I was actually hoping Maximum Football would be that game, but 90 pages later and that game is jokeware. Then I was hoping NFL Head Coach would be that game, and it seems as if the game is incomplete and/or rushed. When will I ever find that game? FOF2006?

[twothree]

Even with the bad design, bad AI, bad UI, and other flaws, I am having fun playing this game. It's weird, maybe I am addicted to the music.

In my game Miami took QB Kellen Clemens with the #16 overall pick. He had the same overall rating 62 after being well scouted as Vince Young, and Cutler. And, in this game Miami does not have Culpepper on their roster he is still a Viking. I took Young with the #20 pick (playing as KC). And, Cutler went to Pittsburgh with the #32 pick. Also, Detroit took Reggie Bush with the #9 pick. So, there is some variation (x-factor) in player ratings.

[Barkeep49]

So I'm not discouraged at all by this thread. This is a first iteration game with some pretty major flaws. However, people are having fun playing it. I take that as a good sign. As we see with Maximum Football customization can be a bad thing. HC seems to have gone in the other direction, but I am hopeful that HC 2007 would allow sliders and such that we depend on in Madden. It seems like the game does a lot of things right and sounds like a game I would really enjoy if they are able to mod.

I think that this thread should show people that FOFC isn't demanding perfection as many people are complementing a flawed, but somehow still enjoyable, game.

[sabotai]

Anyone remember when EA was going to give Racing Sims a real shot? (NASCAR SimRacing)

Yeah, that's a distance memory for me, too. With what I'm reading on the game (and will see for myself in a day or Monday when it gets here from GameFly), the prospect of EA making another one next year is not good.

Unless sales overcome the poor reviews.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by twothree

Even with the bad design, bad AI, bad UI, and other flaws, I am having fun playing this game. It's weird, maybe I am addicted to the music.

And, in this game Miami does not have Culpepper on their roster he is still a Viking.

I agree - this game is SERIOUSLY flawed, but still somehow very fun and addicting.

Culpepper (and others) this is actually one of the things that EA got dead on right IMO - the game starts the day after the superbowl, so NONE of the real world off-season moves have taken place - at least for me this adds a lot.

Now, if they added the option to either have the game start end of superbowl (as it is now) or beginning of training camp (with all the off-season roster moves in there) I think that would have been great, since it would allow us to play in different ways.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

but I am hopeful that HC 2007 would allow sliders and such that we depend on in Madden.

IMO - sliders are the WORST thing that could happen to a coaching sim> now I say that with the obvious qualifier that they need to get the stats correct in the first place.

a coaching sim SHOULD produce results that are very close to the real NFL in terms of:

# of plays
completion %
int %
yards per carry
yards per completion
correct run/pass ratio

you get those 6 things right - all of it comes together. They don't need to be perfect, they just need to be relatively close. you get those right and you will produce correct league leaders, pro bowlers, progression, everything.

hell, you get that right I could even deal with the Sims aspect nonsense.

Sliders have become EA's crutch against realistic play, I grant you they are a necessary evil in the joystick jockey genre- but is a "simulation" they are a bad, bad path.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Anyone remember when EA was going to give Racing Sims a real shot? (NASCAR SimRacing)

Yeah, that's a distance memory for me, too. With what I'm reading on the game (and will see for myself in a day or Monday when it gets here from GameFly), the prospect of EA making another one next year is not good.

Unless sales overcome the poor reviews.

I think they sunk so much money into the NFL license, that we will very likely see a second version. The big question is whether or not it will fix most/any of the flaws of this version.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I'm surprised that there is as much positive talk about this game in this thread as there is - I picked it up yesterday and after 9 hours of game play I've actually got through the first exhibition game and to me HC is just a great idea with terrible execution. The things that annoy me far outweigh the things I like.

I took over the Lions and on the first day of free agency I was able to land Michael Strahan - apparently players don't care who they play for as long as you accept the contract demands of their agent and you get to act before any of the AI teams so I paid Strahan what he wanted and he was mine. I could have done that with anyone else in the FA pool too.

And like it seems in everyone else's draft Hawk went first and my pick at #9 was a no brainer with Reggie Bush on the board. Young went 15th I think and Jay Cutler 30th or something. Of course my scouting director suggested some other QB at #9 over both Young and Cutler and Bush as well. Then after drafting Bush (in addition to having Kevin Jones and the signed Moe Williams on the team as HBs and only Dan Orlovsky as the team's QB) he wants me to draft Addai (Im sure I spelled that wrong).

But the thing that pissed me off most about the draft is that you get roughly 30 seconds to try and make a trade. So much for trying to trade up. I think the 5 minutes you get for your own pick is fine but it's impossible to trade for a pick unless you're going for one like 10 picks from now. And then to top it off after you make X amount of trade attempts you can't trade anymore during that draft day. So in order to trade you have to be quick enough through the horrible UI to get a trade in that is going to be accepted since you don't have time to make a 2nd offer and you better make sure it will be accepted or else you will run out of trade attempts.

I also hate the fact that you have to schedule everything. Why can't I just sit down and make a trade when I feel like it? Why do I have to schedule trade time. And like others have said, the interface sucks. You cannot see any information about players at a glance - not even single players. You open up the roster screen and their names aren't even listed so the only way to find out anything about players is opening up each position and then you can view one at a time.

And to top if off the playcalling AI is just horrendous. Not only is there no real way to sub out your starters in pre season (you could manually sub them out in the game but the game is continuing while you do it so you basically would miss like an entire possession to sub players) but the plays it calls are stupid. I'm down 1 with a minute to go just behind midfield and two timeouts and guess what play it wants me to run...QB Kneel. WTF? And it suggests QB Kneel for every play in that final minute stretch - until I get to the opponent's 30 with 4 seconds left...and it suggests I punt. Maybe the opposing team's coach hacked into the frequency of my team's headsets and was trying to call the plays - either that or the AI blows. And of course the 5 min quarter thing sucks, the AI handles the last 2 minutes horribly (treating it like its the last 2 minutes of a quarter as opposed to the last 6) and there are virtually no penalties it seems and even when there are you have no idea what happened.

The "trust" thing is another good idea implemented terribly. My trust is like halfway down already because each week I tell the special teams coach I don't want Jason Hanson to be the punter. I don't understand why a) he asks the same damn thing every week and b) why I have to take a hit to the trust rating for telling the assistant coaches or scouting director no to something. You either do what they want or your trust rating goes down. I have the same gripe with motivating the players - you can't motivate them as a group because it seems half of them hate the option you chose and the other half liked it so you piss off half of them to motivate the other half.

There's some good ideas like the training camp drills but it's just not done very well at all overall IMO. What I don't get is you spend 5 hours of real time getting to the draft and getting all prepared and then the draft itself is over before you blink. I would much rather be able to get through all the preseason stuff in an hour and spend 2 or 3 hours doing the draft. Same thing with the gameplay. It's so rushed that you don't even feel like you have time to control anything. It's cool that you can talk to the players on the sideline - but if you do you either miss a play or run down the play clock so far that in reality you used up like 3-4 plays worth of time. If you had the full 15 minute quarter you could do stuff like talk to the players and then go back and call your play. Damn that was long but I was really looking forward to this and the design is just flawed beyond what any patch could repair.

Thanks, this puts the nail in the coffin for this game to picked up on the way home tomorrow from vacation.

Next up I think I'll start digging into BBCF once again as I've been reading up on Mizzou and the Big 12.