Katrina hits Category 5.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Gee, let's start with "maybe Seattle & Florida didn't rush into anarchy at the first available opportunity.

RUSH to anarchy??? WTF are you talking about? You take the poorest population of a state destroy every single worldly possession, let them sit for 48 hours in the most horrible conditions and state of mind a human could ever be in and youre ONLY talking about the FEW "LOOTERS". WTF is wrong with you? You clearly demonstrate what im talking about, the simple fact that you say "rush to anarchy" sums it all up.

If there was so much advance warning, why didn't the mayor order the evacuation sooner, to prevent some of this? Maybe he's a racist too.

Im not sure why you are possessed to twist what I said. Im not talking about evac, im talking RESPONSE, a question you directly ignored since I guess you werent able to form a intelligent response? Just tell me JIMG, why werent ALL THE NATIONAL GUARD UNITS IN BORDER STATES PUT ON RED ALERT AND READIED FOR DEPLOYMENT THE DAY BEFORE? Just answer that please?

Why didn't the city & state officials already on the ground make any real attempt to prevent anarchy from breaking out? Probably all racists too.

The people who kept attacking relief workers? Well surely they're racists, since all the attackers are rich white guys attacking their heroic poor black rescuers. Obviously racist since the KKK is currently roaming the streets of New Orleans robbing, raping, and generally pillaging.

This is why having any conversation with you is so fucking lame. "probably all racists too" blah blah blah, its like debating with a teenager. This is a national emergency, OUR government did not respond in time and we are seeing consequences. Heres another classic example "the people who KEPT attacking workers" COMPLETE EXAGGERATION, ONE FUCKING REPORT and you make it out like there are gangs constantly attacking relief workers. where does that come from? where is the honesty? why do you want to exaggerate these situations?

Better yet, why don't you get your head out of your sorry & demonstrably worthless ass long enough to get a fucking clue?

My sorry ass donated 1,000 dollars to the Red Cross yesterday and I donated blood and plasma. How about you? What has your incredible productive, intelligent, trim ass done for these people right next door to you?

In end, youre the one insulting a person whos genuinely in pain for these people, you are the one complaining about looters who lost everything they own.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

AP Offers Satellite Image of New Orleans
Email this Story

Sep 2, 9:08 AM (ET)

NEW YORK (AP) - The Associated Press is offering Internet access to a satellite image that covers most of New Orleans, detailed enough that viewers can zoom in to check on particular neighborhoods and streets.

The image's resolution is high, at 2.4 meters per pixel. It is posted in a format that allows quick viewing of any area a user zooms in on. Users can quickly see what areas are under water and what structures are still standing.

The initial image was taken Wednesday and supplied by the company DigitalGlobe. AP will offer updated satellite images as as they become available.

The image is available at:

---

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/neworl...ite/index.html

Thanks for the link. There is cloud cover over my place, but the surrounding area appears to be dry.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

chinaski, wasn't the priority - as clearly stated by the mayor and governor - was to rescue people first? Caring for those already rescued was clearly a secondary priority and all available resources in the first 48-hours went to getting to people trapped on the roofs and their places of residence. That was hard enough given the rising water. Are people forgetting already what took place Monday and Tuesday and what the priorities were?

Absolutely, im not sure which of my previous posts (if any) touched on this? I fully stand by what you are saying and I havent debated the contrary. But now, we are in day 5 and there are still 20k people at the convention center and there still hasnt been a single drop of water or supplies or anything. the reports from there are horrifying, dead bodies all over, babies dying in mothers arms, a woman just delivered a still born baby with no one to help her. its bad. how is it that for the last 2 days a copter couldnt come by and DROP supplies?

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Go in "how" exactly? The difference in this & other previous disasters starts with the fact that you normally aren't dealing with this degree of impassable streets.

Impassible? How is it possible for some of the residents who have evacuated the area to come back and view damage to their property? It can't be that difficult to get through. On top of that, if it were difficult to get too, they would normally set up a spot on the outskirts of town as a station where the supplies would transported. This is what they do for hurricane relief in other areas all the time when the roads are impassible. They either bring the people to a designated local or they send people, by way of air or ground to where people have come together.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Agreed. But how can you communicate with them when there's no form of communication working? Throughout the first 24-48 hours, there were consistent complaints by the local officials that they couldn't even communicate amongst themselves there on the scene. There was no power for radio or TV, the stations themselves were lucky to be on air at all (mad props here btw for the performance of WWL radio). You can't exactly go around with loudspeakers on trucks when you can't get the trucks through the streets.

Yes, this seems to be true. What I was trying to point out is that restlessness started because of the lack of response and time tends to erode at the sanity of people, especially with death already occuring at that point, lack of food and water, and temperatures close to the 90s with humidity.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I don't think anybody is suggesting that. What I'm getting much more of a feel is that there's the danger of being shot at any moment, randomly.

And I agree with this, since the reports that the helicopter couldn't land doesn't appear to be fabricated. That is why I believe a quicker response would have alleviated a lot of trouble that is occuring now.

Edited for my dola:

And referring to my first paragraph, how in the heck are they bussing people out of there if the streets are impassable?

[Mustang]

If everyone is going to be running around blaming everyone over the next few months, I sure hope the media gets their share. . .

News is just seems to be the typical 'everything is shit, nothing is good' reporting. Media needs to take some blame especially if the reports of violence are way overblown which in turn resulted in delays because people had to rethink how to go into different areas because there was the illusion they had to protect themselves more than they might have...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Good deal EF (hopefully), I was badly hoping you'd see that post & be able to get some use from it. (I considered posting this in its own thread, decided things were already scattered enough)

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by chinaski

I fully believe the Bush administration did not care one bit for the simple fact the majority of people effected are POOR & BLACK. You know what Bush was doing the day after the hurricane hit?!?!? PLAYING GOLF IN TEXAS. Heres another classic example "the people who KEPT attacking workers" COMPLETE EXAGGERATION, ONE FUCKING REPORT and you make it out like there are gangs constantly attacking relief workers. where does that come from? where is the honesty? why do you want to exaggerate these situations?

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

6:07 A.M. - Jefferson Parish Emergency Operations Director Walter Maestri: Entergy is considering pulling out its crews trying to bring power back until there is some semblance of order. Entergy says some crew linemen have been shot at.

5:41 A.M. - (AP) Doctors at two desperately crippled hospitals in New Orleans called The Associated Press Thursday morning pleading for rescue, saying they were nearly out of food and power and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters. "We have been trying to call the mayor's office, we have been trying to call the governor's office ... we have tried to use any inside pressure we can. We are turning to you. Please help us," said Dr. Norman McSwain, chief of trauma surgery at Charity Hospital, the larger of two public hospitals.

4:55 A.M. - Refugee Alan Gould spoke to CNN from inside the New Orleans Convention Center. He said sick, eldery and children are dying and children have been beaten and raped. He pleaded for help.

4:15 P.M. - (AP): Police say storm victims are being raped and beaten inside the New Orleans Convention Center.


About 15,200 people who had taken shelter at the convention center to await buses grew increasingly hostile.


Police Chief Eddie Compass says he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly beaten back by an angry mob.


Compass says, "We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten."


He says tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon.


In hopes of defusing the unrest at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they can find. But the bedlam appeared to make leaving difficult.

2:37 P.M. - CNN Reports that snipers have fired shots on Charity Hospital in New Orleans.

All of those reports were from the last 24 hours at WWLTV.com. These are not the actions of a select few individuals.

And for God's sakes, the President wasn't "playing golf in Texas" the day after the hurricane hit. You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

You're just figuring this out?

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by chinaski

My sorry ass donated 1,000 dollars to the Red Cross yesterday and I donated blood and plasma. How about you? What has your incredible productive, intelligent, trim ass done for these people right next door to you?

In end, youre the one insulting a person whos genuinely in pain for these people, you are the one complaining about looters who lost everything they own.

Dola: be sure not to strain yourself as you're patting yourself on the back.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by chinaski

I fully believe the Bush administration did not care one bit for the simple fact the majority of people effected are POOR & BLACK. You know what Bush was doing the day after the hurricane hit?!?!? PLAYING GOLF IN TEXAS.

Hmmm...Rhandi Rhodes said he was playing golf here in Phoenix. Cindy Sheehan said he was playing golf in San Diego. Now it's Texas?

He sure played a lot of golf this week.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Hmmm...Rhandi Rhodes ...
He sure played a lot of golf this week.

I thought he was dead?

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Hmmm...Rhandi Rhodes said he was playing golf here in Phoenix. Cindy Sheehan said he was playing golf in San Diego. Now it's Texas?

He sure played a lot of golf this week.

Well he has some rich oil baron buddies, and since they are all racist too, they are paying to fly him around the country to play golf and ignore the crisis.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

6:07 A.M. - Jefferson Parish Emergency Operations Director Walter Maestri: Entergy is considering pulling out its crews trying to bring power back until there is some semblance of order. Entergy says some crew linemen have been shot at.

5:41 A.M. - (AP) Doctors at two desperately crippled hospitals in New Orleans called The Associated Press Thursday morning pleading for rescue, saying they were nearly out of food and power and had been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters. "We have been trying to call the mayor's office, we have been trying to call the governor's office ... we have tried to use any inside pressure we can. We are turning to you. Please help us," said Dr. Norman McSwain, chief of trauma surgery at Charity Hospital, the larger of two public hospitals.

4:55 A.M. - Refugee Alan Gould spoke to CNN from inside the New Orleans Convention Center. He said sick, eldery and children are dying and children have been beaten and raped. He pleaded for help.

4:15 P.M. - (AP): Police say storm victims are being raped and beaten inside the New Orleans Convention Center.


About 15,200 people who had taken shelter at the convention center to await buses grew increasingly hostile.


Police Chief Eddie Compass says he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly beaten back by an angry mob.


Compass says, "We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten."


He says tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon.


In hopes of defusing the unrest at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they can find. But the bedlam appeared to make leaving difficult.

2:37 P.M. - CNN Reports that snipers have fired shots on Charity Hospital in New Orleans.

All of those reports were from the last 24 hours at WWLTV.com. These are not the actions of a select few individuals.

And for God's sakes, the President wasn't "playing golf in Texas" the day after the hurricane hit. You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Somehow this is supposed to prove a point? Those are the 3 reports "everyone" is talking about. Lets stop relief all together!

Cam, im sorry, i was wrong. He wasnt playing the day after, it was the DAY OF the hurricane. oops!

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Bottom line is that the tragic things that happened at the Superdome were not because it was inadequately prepared as a shelter, but because it was never intended as one to begin with and was nevertheless swamped with people.

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winnah!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I wouldn't have seen this except for Cam's quote, but ...

My sorry ass donated 1,000 dollars to the Red Cross yesterday and I donated blood and plasma. How about you? What has your incredible productive, intelligent, trim ass done for these people right next door to you?

Enough that I don't feel any need to come online & try to play hero for doing it.

And, thanks to my wife, enough that I'm worried that we probably are in the process of spending (once a couple of the groups we've identified as recipients are reachable) more than maybe we should.

Enough that the total will ultimately exceed any single-subject donation we've ever made, including those to my own child's school or entities in our own local area or state.

And that'll just have to satisfy your curiosity, I'm not interested in sending you tax returns or receipts past, present, or future.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Dola: be sure not to strain yourself as you're patting yourself on the back.

dont break your back trying to suck your tiny dick either. He calls me all sorts shit while demonizing people whove lost everything they own and some how im the bad guy? Im bitching about trying to HELP people, you fucks are bitching about looters. I wonder who falls on the side of good here?

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by chinaski

dont break your back trying to suck your tiny dick either. He calls me all sorts shit while demonizing people whove lost everything they own and some how im the bad guy? Im bitching about trying to HELP people, you fucks are bitching about looters. I wonder who falls on the side of good here?

So you're taking the stance that the lawlessness either isn't happening or it is minor or sporadic enough not to have any significant impact on rescue operations?

[KevinNU7]

Chinaski, this thread we an excellent place for everyone to get together and talk about waht is happening and how the events are unfolding. It was an excellent place to go for updates and to be informed form a central location.

Thanks for shitting all over that

[Masked]

There is enough blame to go around for everyone (mayor, governor, Dept. of Homeland security, President, weather forcasters who said it was going to Florida, a construction company that tied a barge to the levee along the 17th St Canal, the media for grossly misrepresenting the conditions in the city, etc).

There is always looting in a cities even for something as stupid as an NBA team winning a championship. There is no excuse for the National Guard not being in the city immediately after the storm passed Monday morning and before the levee broke later in the day. They had enough time before the storm to prepare some units. Large groups of people should not have had to go even 48 hours without supplies being delivered.

The horribly inept response to the disaster helped create an environment that is being exploited by a small group of violent criminals. The viloent criminals should be shot if neccessary, and those responsible for the disaster response should be fired. Placing all the blame on the looters is wrong; placing all the blame on the government is also wrong. The current situation would not exists without each other.


edit: I should probably proofread posts made when I am stressed

[Huckleberry]

I'm in the Houston area. My family and I have decided to go help out at Reliant Center with the refugees. Either with our time and effort, just bringing supplies, or hopefully both.

Here's my concern. What do I need to do to protect myself, my wife, and my children from any possible sickness that the victims may be unwittingly carrying after spending as many as 3+ days in stagnant contaminated water?

[JeeberD]

I know that a lot of other Texas schools are doing the same thing, but I thought it was awesome that a school over 1000 miles away from NO is offering to help out...

UTEP Offers Admission to Students Affected by Hurricane Katrina
Sep 1, 2005, 05:29 PM Email to a Friend Printer Friendly Version


Associated Links

UTEP Site






EL PASO, TX. - UTEP officials announced Thursday that the university is offering admission to students from the El Paso region whose enrollment at universities in the New Orleans area was interrupted by Hurricane Katrina.

According to UTEP Aministrators, interested students must enroll at UTEP by September 8, 2005. "Like many universities across the country, UTEP is eager to extend assistance to those whose lives have been adversely impacted by this terrible tragedy," Diana Natalicio, UTEP president, said.

Dr. Natalicio tells ABC-7 that, "By offering admission to El Paso area residents who planned to attend universities in the affected region, we will enable them to continue making progress in achieving their academic goals."

University personnel will work with individual students to create course schedules that meet their academic needs and will arrange for academic assistance so they can catch up on the work in classes that have already begun.

UTEP will also work closely with students on such issues as transfer credits and financial aid.

Interested students are asked to contact Dr. Maggy Smith, Dean of the University College, at 915-747-5151, or by email at [email protected]

[JonInMiddleGA]

I know this is very localized info I'm about to post, but there's also quite a few FOFC'ers in the area of this particular site, so I'm gonna post it anyway (hope nobody minds that).
Just got this from my son's school:

1. As many of you may know, the FFA Camp in Newton County is housing around 400 evacuees (parents and children) from the hurricane ravaged areas of Louisiana and Mississippi. These evacuees have been placed under the charge of Newton County DFACS. Mrs. Jan Ballard at Newton County DFACS has notified us there is a great need for entertainment items for the children
(art supplies, games, books, etc.) If you can furnish any items like this
for the children, please send them to school on Tuesday (6th).

2. The Covington chapter of the Salvation Army is also working to help
provide for the people at the FFA Camp. They are asking for donations of
water, toiletries, towels, washcloths, linens, and snacks (nothing that will
melt), etc. Drop off points for these items are

- Salvation Army in Covington
- Monticello Baptist Church
- New Rocky Creek Baptist Church

Please do not take items to the FFA Camp.

Any help you can give will be deeply appreciated.

I talked directly to the Covington Salvation Army office, they say right now either works equally well right now, cash or materials.
(I wanted to know if they had a preference, since cash allows them to get specific things they know are short supply in the material donations).

I'm now trying to find out if there's a drop-off point for those kid's items that would defintely get them on-site faster than the Tuesday plan that the school is doing. The SA office said they'd accept them too (but I kinda got the feeling that they're working more on the general items). Every since Dutch mentioned the kid's entertainment items several days ago, I've thought that was a terrific idea & something that I really want to include in my own efforts (you get weird fixations like that when your own kid is a board-game fanatic).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by HomerJSimpson

Even my wife has made that connection. She makes a good point when she said "if this were Seattle, and the people in the city mostly white, would it have taken this long to get help to them?" I do wonder.

Maybe I just live in my own naive, rose-colored glasses world, but I'd like to think that the reasons have a lot more to do with the situation (completely destroyed infrastructure, especially communication) and the lack of ability to move around competently. It's not "we don't want to rush to help them because they're black", it's "we can't talk to our people once they've left Texas but we've heard that all the major ways into the city are washed out".

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jeebs - Georgia Tech took in (IIRC) 80 or so upper-level Tulane students earlier this week too.

[Flasch186]

wow, its obvious from what Bush said that he doesnt have a firm grasp as to what is going on when he was walking the destroyed neighborhood. He turned to his cronie and asked, "Isnt there a salvation center down here?" and the guy says, "there's a bus 2 miles away." Bush says, "But there is no Salvation Center down here." "No sir"....

Wow, he isn't getting told the proper info. to understand the scope.

[JonInMiddleGA]

a salvation center

Help me out here Flasch, I'm away from the TV most of the time right now -- is that like "Salvation Army Center" or is Salvation Center what the various refugee / evacuee/ aid locations are now being called (I don't recall seeing/hearing this phrase before)

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

So you're taking the stance that the lawlessness either isn't happening or it is minor or sporadic enough not to have any significant impact on rescue operations?

its sporadic and in no way should unrest from a natural disaster be allowed to even remotely get to the point where it could or would stop evacuation. The NG just arrived, 5 days later. The day after a hurricane hits Florida, the NG is right there, blocking off neighborhoods, not allowing residents to go back to thier homes. Remember the fights? Folks trying to get back home to see the damage and the NG literally fighting with a father while his kid screamed inside the minivan?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wacky idea, borne of seeing a guy on the news just trying to let his family know he made it to Houston:

There's no shortage of cable channels with airtime to spare. Ditto the ability to add programming to XM & Sirius. How about somebody start rolling tape on the people in Texas, and the other shelters.

No interviewing, no polticizing, no grandstanding, just straight up name/neighborhood/location i.d.'s from the evacuees & maybe what relative(s) they're trying to let know they're alive. 60 seconds per person max maybe. Tape 'em, air 'em, loop 'em & let volunteers start compiling the lists. Do it all privately, off to the side, don't take up trained volunteer time with it. It'd give (IMO) at least some feeling of "trying" to the evacuees, something for them to do instead of just worry, it'd be at worst a well-intended attempt at putting some minds at ease, and it might just succeed. Something better than nothing.

To be fair, a ton of websites have been set up for this reason from WWL to Craigslist and other sites that are usually for other stuff.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

To be fair, a ton of websites have been set up for this reason from WWL to Craigslist and other sites that are usually for other stuff.

True, I was just thinking of broadening things past the blog/web stage & making use of even more mainstream/widespread forms of media.

My thought was "if those are working well, this might make them all even better". All of that after catching a link to a link to a link that had a great story of some blogger being able to find his wife's mother after she was transferred to a different nursing home but there had been no way to notify the family.

[JonInMiddleGA]

again from AJC.com (who, like Ben, I have to say is doing a pretty good job with this)

DeKalb County CEO Vernon Jones said today he is declaring a state of emergency to deal with an influx of evacuees from the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast.

Jones will ask Gov. Sonny Perdue to issue a statewide emergency declaration and to request assistance from the Federal Emergency Management Agency. The federal government could then reimburse DeKalb and other local governments for providing temporary housing, medical care and other services to people who fled the hurricane.

"We've got to accommodate those people who either are here or are on their way here," Jones said. But without state and federal assistance, he said, "we can't accommodate the huge impact."

Jones said he had no idea how many people have evacuated to metro Atlanta. But he said the numbers appear to be significant; while appearing on radio station V-103 Thursday to solicit donations of money and supplies to send to the Gulf Coast, he said, evacuees appeared at the station to give first-hand accounts of their exodus.

Local governments, Jones said, need to "process these people rather than [them] just hitting us and flooding our gates."

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

If they were, I highly doubt they were enough to handle the crowds that came. I had to laugh a little at the suggestion by the mayor that the Superdome was a place of "last resort". It's the biggest structure in the entire city. Consequently, people will go there because they know the odds are staggeringly high they won't be turned away like they would from a high school or something similar. There's (relatively speaking) plenty of space because, after all, it's designed to accomodate 75,000 people. (True, it was never meant to be housing, but I seriously doubt the people descending on the dome gave consideration to long-term possibilities.) It may have done the job had everything not gone to hell in a handbasket the day after the storm, forcing everyone to stay put.

Well, to be fair, did you see the guy talking on Sunday about the Superdome? His quote that he kept having to say over and over again was to the effect that people need to remember that it was a refuge of last resort and while the future is a nice thing to think about, the only thing they could really plan for was trying to keep people alive through Tuesday morning.

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I'm in the Houston area. My family and I have decided to go help out at Reliant Center with the refugees. Either with our time and effort, just bringing supplies, or hopefully both.

Here's my concern. What do I need to do to protect myself, my wife, and my children from any possible sickness that the victims may be unwittingly carrying after spending as many as 3+ days in stagnant contaminated water?

Huckleberry, I'm not an infectious disease expert (obviously) but the main things that people likely have as of right now is E. Coli. That is not transmittable as long as you don't go wading into their crap (literally) or drinking contaminated water. I *think* it should be reasonably safe for you to go and help bring supplies or aid in other ways.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I know that a lot of other Texas schools are doing the same thing, but I thought it was awesome that a school over 1000 miles away from NO is offering to help out...

JeeberD, that is awesome

Go UTEP!

[Antmeister]

By the way, how can this be considered a logistical nightmare when Houston can successfully coordinate bussing people out of the Superdome. The streets can't be that impassible if they can do this. So brininging in supplies should not have been a matter of only being flown in.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Help me out here Flasch, I'm away from the TV most of the time right now -- is that like "Salvation Army Center" or is Salvation Center what the various refugee / evacuee/ aid locations are now being called (I don't recall seeing/hearing this phrase before)

thats not the point, he was surprised that there wasn't a "center" nearby. The lingo doesnt bother me as it can vary from area of the country to area.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

By the way, how can this be considered a logistical nightmare when Houston can successfully coordinate bussing people out of the Superdome. The streets can't be that impassible if they can do this. So brininging in supplies should not have been a matter of only being flown in.

The first supplies for the convention center arrived about 15 minutes ago, it rolled up in a 20 truck caravan with the NG. Thats the frustration everyone is feeling, the convention center route has been clear.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

thats not the point, he was surprised that there wasn't a "center" nearby. The lingo doesnt bother me as it can vary from area of the country to area.

Sorry, my bad for not being clearer -- I didn't mean it was the point, I was just asking 'cause I didn't know & was wondering.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry, my bad for not being clearer -- I didn't mean it was the point, I was just asking 'cause I didn't know & was wondering.

oh, that I dont know. Could be called "That place over there" for all I know

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Thanks for the link. There is cloud cover over my place, but the surrounding area appears to be dry.

They had a report on WWL (I swear, they have the best coverage by a mile, tho today it seems like it's been press conference tv) where a meteorologist was brought in on Tuesday, before there were all kinds of satellite images out there and people really had no idea how bad it was. He was talking about how, over land, when the morning starts to heat up, the little fluffy clouds start to form over the land. But the kicker is that they don't form over water. So then he pulled out a satellite of Southern Louisiana and there were the little fluffy clouds all up to the north, but then once you got south of Lake Pontchartrain, there were practically none except for a few south of the Mississippi river and then they abruptly stopped again, the implication of course being that everything else was under water due to the levee breaking the night before. That was pretty much the first time I started to grasp the magnitude of how things had gone from slightly bad with a few areas destroyed to the "um, how the hell do you even start to rebuild". The good news nugget in all this is that if there are little fluffy clouds over your house, it's probably fine waterwise.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by chinaski

The first supplies for the convention center arrived about 15 minutes ago, it rolled up in a 20 truck caravan with the NG. Thats the frustration everyone is feeling, the convention center route has been clear.

Jesus! FINALLY! It only took you guys 5 days....

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Jesus! FINALLY! It only took you guys 5 days....

but it's not like there were truckloads of pallets of water and food sitting in states surrounding NO. I'm not saying there isn't the possibilty that it could have gotten there faster but I kinda doubt people were twiddling their thumbs in regards to sending stuff

[JonInMiddleGA]

On the wire service in the past hour.

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - A huge oil spill was spotted near two storage tanks on the Mississippi River downstream from New Orleans, state officials said Friday.

The oil was seen in a flyover to the Venice area by the Department of Environmental Quality.

"Two tanks with the capacity of holding 2 million barrels appear to be leaking," the department said in a statement.

No further details were given.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by chinaski

dont break your back trying to suck your tiny dick either. He calls me all sorts shit while demonizing people whove lost everything they own and some how im the bad guy? Im bitching about trying to HELP people, you fucks are bitching about looters. I wonder who falls on the side of good here?

Ah yes, the old fallback. When confronted with proof of your idiocy, say the other guy has a tiny penis.

President Bush wasn't playing golf this week, Chinaski. He was at the El Mirage RV and Golf Center for a Medicaid roundtable. There was no golf played.

Again, you are speaking out of your ass. There were plenty more incidents than the three that I found on ONE website.

You are lashing out at the President because that is all you know how to do. You are patting yourself on the back for your donations because it makes you feel superior to others. You're claiming that it's racism on the part of the President, FEMA, the Governor of Louisiana (who's in charge of the NG troops), and other officials that have prevented aid from coming into New Orleans when that is the most farfetched of reasons for this clusterfuck.

You disgust me.

I apologize to all for continuing this discussion rather than letting this thread get back to good solid information. I'm just disgusted by this train of thought that is becoming increasingly prevalent.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I've done a little research, going back over time at the NHC site with their forecast advisories with Katrina. The first time New Orleans was put essentially into the forecast margin-of-error (that cone you always see on hurricane forecasts) was with the 5 AM EDT advisory on Friday 8/26, roughly 72 hours before landfall. At that point, the official prediction had the storm in the east central Gulf early Monday morning, turning north and heading towards Pensacola. Winds were only 75 MPH at that time. Given this sort of information, it would be highly unlikely that anyone in Louisiana would have considered evacuation given the track and relative weakness of the storm. 12 hours later (60 to landfall), I'm sure they started to think about at least evacuating the coastal areas because the forecast track had moved west and put landfall around Passcagoula mid-afternoon on Monday and Katrina had strengthened to 100 MPH. By 11 PM EDT Friday, the track had shifted west again (in actually this forecast was the first one to be "right" in the end) to a MS/LA border landfall. Katrina was up to 105 MPH, a serious, but not catastrophic threat. Every forecast from that point forward generall had the track right with some minor variations from update to update. So they had 54 hours basically before landfall if they could be certain the track was accurate (not a given considering where it was expected to be just 18 hours before). I don't think they got one iota of how bad it might get until the early morning hours of Sunday when the track was established right over New Orleans and the wind speed jumped from 115 to 145 MPH in just three hours. It was grave enough a possibility that the NHC starting issuing updates to the track every three hours instead of six hours from that point on. At this point, though, landfall was just 30 hours away. By 10 AM CDT Sunday, nine hours after the storm reached 145 MPH, it was up to 175 MPH and under 24 hours were left until landfall. It was at this point that the mayor issued the manditory evacuation. There just wasn't enough time to prep the city.

I'm in the camp that's thinking there should have been a better command structure in place for such an emergency and some better planning for after the fact but I think the preparation beforehand was about as good as they could muster. All the people bitching about having a 72 hour evacuation plan are really failing to take this into consideration and falling into the hindsight 20/20 trap. It wasn't until half that where it even seemed like a remote possibility. Hell, didn't they just have a 105 mph hurricane there a couple of (last?) years ago and not much happened to the city? Certainly nothing of this magnitude.

Exceptioning the tourists, who were really screwed in this when they shut down the airport ahead of time, everyone who could (and wanted to- not the "I'm going down with the ship" crowd) managed to get out of town. Even with only 24 hours to really evacuate, they managed to get 1 million people out of town and I remember 2am Monday morning when the outermost bands of storms were arriving, one reporter was standing at the bridge in Baton Rouge that comes in from New Orleans and he was commenting on how it was empty and everyone who wanted to get out had. The Superdome and the other "shelters of last resort" seemed to have held up and kept people from dying to the elements in the first 24 hours and while a handful suffered stress-related deaths, everyone else was still alive, even if uncomfortable. It wasn't until the levee broke, flooding a lot more of the city that things went crazily south to where we are now.

SI

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

On the wire service in the past hour.

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - A huge oil spill was spotted near two storage tanks on the Mississippi River downstream from New Orleans, state officials said Friday.

The oil was seen in a flyover to the Venice area by the Department of Environmental Quality.

"Two tanks with the capacity of holding 2 million barrels appear to be leaking," the department said in a statement.

No further details were given.

awesome. I just heard a thousand oil exectutives shout for joy...

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Ah yes, the old fallback. When confronted with proof of your idiocy, say the other guy has a tiny penis.

President Bush wasn't playing golf this week, Chinaski. He was at the El Mirage RV and Golf Center for a Medicaid roundtable. There was no golf played.

Again, you are speaking out of your ass. There were plenty more incidents than the three that I found on ONE website.

You are lashing out at the President because that is all you know how to do. You are patting yourself on the back for your donations because it makes you feel superior to others. You're claiming that it's racism on the part of the President, FEMA, the Governor of Louisiana (who's in charge of the NG troops), and other officials that have prevented aid from coming into New Orleans when that is the most farfetched of reasons for this clusterfuck.

You disgust me.

I apologize to all for continuing this discussion rather than letting this thread get back to good solid information. I'm just disgusted by this train of thought that is becoming increasingly prevalent.

umm it was reported that Bush came back early from vacation. just sayin.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - A huge oil spill was spotted near two storage tanks on the Mississippi River downstream from New Orleans, state officials said Friday.

And the hits just keep on coming.

[kcchief19]

I've searched and scanned the thread, but I've haven't seen any reference to this. Has anyone seen/heard the interview with CNN's Soledad O'Brien that she did with FEMA director Mike Brown? It was unreal.

She asked why it's taken until Friday to get the national guard and troops on the ground when Tuesday the mayor and the governor issued the "SOS" and begged for help. He also admitted that HE DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE REFUGEES AT THE CONVENTION CENTER UNTIL HE SAW IT ON TV THURSDAY. That's why these people weren't getting any food or water -- FEMA didn't know there were there. Hell, I knew there were there. So did most people paying attention to any media reports since Tuesday. And Brown had the never to blame a "lack of communication with city officials," as though he were trying to pass off the blame on them. What a tool.

I'm at a loss. Troops and everything we had should have already been there. Brown also blatantly lied several times during the interview. He said "every" urban search and rescue team in the country was in New Orleans now helping to rescue people. I know SNR people in Kansas City who are not there, so it's a flat our lie.

How this guy every got to head FEMA is beyond me. He needs to be replaced NOW. Whether you militarize the situation and turn everything over to the National Guard or what, I'm not sure. But this clown shouldn't be running a Baskin and Robbins much less the single-largest humanitrian effort and disaster recovery in our nation's history.

I don't know if I have ever heard anyone make me so angry. They played most of the inteview on a local radio station this morning and then played clips from Ray Nagin and he was more pissed than I was. He accused FEMA and the federal government of nothing having a "goddamned clue what they are doing," and I think he was dead on.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20...199344-ap.html

Nagin started to turn this into a Bush bashing, and I don't want to do that. I realize there is something to be said for the "buck stops here" mentality, but I don't think now's the time to blame Bush for the problems.

I'll change my tune if Bush doesn't take Michael Brown and put a boot up his ass and lock him in a closet until this mess is over.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I know that a lot of other Texas schools are doing the same thing, but I thought it was awesome that a school over 1000 miles away from NO is offering to help out...

KU did the same. Heck, they said they had 20 people inquire about it which was more than I expected up here

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/se...nded_students/

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Damn kcchief, you're as fucking clueless in this thread as you are in HA's thread.
Why the hell did I even bother to read the drivel you posted, some sort sick hope that it might be something useful I guess.

You're so full of absolute horseshit & pomposity, you'd probably be able to float every refugee in New Orleans out of town on your fucking back, maybe even elevate the city to above sea level.