WW LXXIV Killer Kittens on Mount FujiMori day (GAME OVER- KITTENS WIN)

[Passacaglia]

EF, I have to disagree with your analysis of The Jackal a little bit. You said he voted for PB before his fake reveal was exposed. However, he quotes a post by cronin saying 'I believe PB is lying.' -- the details of the reveal may not have been exposed, but if The Jackal was a wolf, then he would know cronin has something up his sleeve.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Fair enough. I don't know what the point of guaranteeing that you'll break the tie is, though. If you don't like ties, I hear ya, just break it if you want to -- no need to posture about it. When you do that, it sounds like you're telling everyone else to back off, since you're going to "take care of it" -- someone like KWhit, who could have broken the tie, might have held off, thinking you were going to do something. FWIW, that's good or bad, considering that KWhit might have got cronin lynched trying to simply break the tie.

Anyway, you've got your vote on KWhit, but it's pretty much self defense. IIRC, you've shed a lot of suspicion on EagleFan. It sounds like if you had your choice on where to put your vote, it would be there. I know your reasoning is somewhere buried, but would you mind running it by me again? I don't have much other than "acting weird" for him.

KWhit didn't hold off though, he posted multiple times in the last 10 minutes for people to NOT switch their vote. I think, if he's a wolf, if anything he knew that he couldn't switch. Same gambit I'm in I suppose. KWhit couldn't have gotten Cronin lynched, he was on Cronin already (as I was)


Re: EagleFan, something just didn't sit right with me in his early Day 2. Maybe it was just the rapid-fire calling out of like 3-4 people then

In the early goings he lists NINE people (me, collins, PB, Cronin, and half-calls-out you, Jackal, RendeR, olie, Lathum)

But what doesn't reconcile is in post 626, PB takes his vote from CW (where he was 1 of 2) and puts it on EF (and was the 1st voter). Now maybe PB was just keen there at EF was about to pick up votes based on the sheer number of people he pinged, but one would think that if PB, who at the time was ahead 6-2-2-2 was going to move it'd be to create a 6-3-2 situation and not a 6-2-2 one. Especially since Collins (one of the 2's) had some doubt on him.

[claphamsa]

Oliegirl- Lathum 959
Kwhit- Jackyl 1007, Pass 1008, heinze 1072
Seolion- Render1042, CW 1073
Heinze- CR1062, EagleFan1065, Seolion 1066,Kwhitt 1100

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

IIRC it was a 3-way still (not that it helps much).

But why actually post that I'll break the tie? Why not just vanish until like 12:10?

This is true that it was a 3-way tie. However, it's important to note that PB hadn't placed a vote yet.

[oliegirl]

I really, really don't think that SeaLion is a wolf...as a first time wolf I had a lot of help from my fellow wolves (Shrek game) and they made sure I didn't do anything super obvious like late vote moves and that sort of thing. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now, but he isn't in the clear.

I'm torn on where to vote right now - EF, Kwhit or Ketchup Boy. I'll decide shortly though...anyone have a current vote count? (Unless one was posted while I was typing this)

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I thought you were admitting it was a bad play. You think I should just leave it at that, and not bother grilling you?

Grilling is one thing, but we're going on 2 days of me going over the same scenario and all along I've admitted it wasn't a good play. It's not like i'm trying to cast it as me doing a smart thing here.

I just think time/energy is better served elsewhere. I can't imagine a scenario where someone hasn't formed their opinion on my bad play yet.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

To clarify, when I talk about the bad play that makes me grill you, I'm not talking about the tiebreaker nonsense. I'm talking about how, when PB got a pretty good lead Day 1, you swung things toward cronin.

Well by the same toke, I'm a kitten. How was I supposed to know, at the time, that PB was the wolf and Cronin was the stray? I think I had pretty good reason to vote for Cronin. His talk about who to vote for (voting for a lead candidate or voting for whom one thinks is a wolf) indeed *is* wildly inconsistent from previous games I played with him.

And I didn't "swing" anything. I placed my vote on someone I thought at the time was a wolf. People came *after* and joined me on him, and it's not like there weren't already other candidates in the mix as well against PB.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This is true that it was a 3-way tie. However, it's important to note that PB hadn't placed a vote yet.

It is, if only I paid attention to such things.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

KWhit didn't hold off though, he posted multiple times in the last 10 minutes for people to NOT switch their vote. I think, if he's a wolf, if anything he knew that he couldn't switch. Same gambit I'm in I suppose. KWhit couldn't have gotten Cronin lynched, he was on Cronin already (as I was)


Re: EagleFan, something just didn't sit right with me in his early Day 2. Maybe it was just the rapid-fire calling out of like 3-4 people then

In the early goings he lists NINE people (me, collins, PB, Cronin, and half-calls-out you, Jackal, RendeR, olie, Lathum)

But what doesn't reconcile is in post 626, PB takes his vote from CW (where he was 1 of 2) and puts it on EF (and was the 1st voter). Now maybe PB was just keen there at EF was about to pick up votes based on the sheer number of people he pinged, but one would think that if PB, who at the time was ahead 6-2-2-2 was going to move it'd be to create a 6-3-2 situation and not a 6-2-2 one. Especially since Collins (one of the 2's) had some doubt on him.

My bad -- you're right that KWhit couldn't lynch cronin. But my point remains the same, that it messed with the play of some people -- not me, because I planned to switch to PB the whole time. But that's not really what I'm after you for, anyway -- that was just something to get you riled up.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think KWhit is a good choice. He scares the crap out of me as a wolf. Plus he cast the second vote on Cronin day one, maybe saw a chance to take out a solid player day 1.

VOTE KWHIT

FYI Lathum, you voted Olie in 959 and didn't unvote it before this.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Grilling is one thing, but we're going on 2 days of me going over the same scenario and all along I've admitted it wasn't a good play. It's not like i'm trying to cast it as me doing a smart thing here.

I just think time/energy is better served elsewhere. I can't imagine a scenario where someone hasn't formed their opinion on my bad play yet.

I don't think that I'm singling this situation out as the only thing that matters in this dicussion -- I'm spreading myself pretty thin. I haven't had a chance to look at post 626 yet because I've been replying to posts on this page, but I will get to it.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

Oliegirl- Lathum 959
Kwhit- Jackyl 1007, Pass 1008, heinze 1072
Seolion- Render1042, CW 1073
Heinze- CR1062, EagleFan1065, Seolion 1066,Kwhitt 1100

FYI, Cronin vote for me in post 878, that's not up there.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

It is, if only I paid attention to such things.

But come on, when you make comments like this? It's hard NOT to keep grilling you!

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't think that I'm singling this situation out as the only thing that matters in this dicussion -- I'm spreading myself pretty thin. I haven't had a chance to look at post 626 yet because I've been replying to posts on this page, but I will get to it.

The post itself ain't much, it's just PB changing his vote from CW to EF. It's the fact that he went from being up 6-2-2-2 to 6-2-2-1-1.

I don't think PB would change his vote (keeping in mind I don't think he'd tried the Seer reveal yet) to a fellow wolf there, if he changes as at all, I'd think he'd change to another leading candidate.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Well by the same toke, I'm a kitten. How was I supposed to know, at the time, that PB was the wolf and Cronin was the stray? I think I had pretty good reason to vote for Cronin. His talk about who to vote for (voting for a lead candidate or voting for whom one thinks is a wolf) indeed *is* wildly inconsistent from previous games I played with him.

And I didn't "swing" anything. I placed my vote on someone I thought at the time was a wolf. People came *after* and joined me on him, and it's not like there weren't already other candidates in the mix as well against PB.

The thing is, though, you mentioned that he'd been acting weird, then waited an hour or so to see what kind of traction, it got, THEN voted for him. I'll find post counts to verify this, cuz I may be wrong.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But come on, when you make comments like this? It's hard NOT to keep grilling you!

Just bein' honest man.

I just never have been big on noticing who hasn't voted yet, unless it's in the count. I keep a .txt open with the latest official count. If it isn't in there, I likely miss it.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

The post itself ain't much, it's just PB changing his vote from CW to EF. It's the fact that he went from being up 6-2-2-2 to 6-2-2-1-1.

I don't think PB would change his vote (keeping in mind I don't think he'd tried the Seer reveal yet) to a fellow wolf there, if he changes as at all, I'd think he'd change to another leading candidate.

Right -- I'll look around the vote, too -- I wasn't *only* going to look at that one post!

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

The thing is, though, you mentioned that he'd been acting weird, then waited an hour or so to see what kind of traction, it got, THEN voted for him. I'll find post counts to verify this, cuz I may be wrong.

That could be correct, but that's just me making up my mind.

I mean, by the same token, you're coming pretty hard after me, but like you said, you're vote isn't on me, is it?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I also agree with Lathum that the duke should reveal, and asap. The duke reveals, and olie gets one more scan - that will give us a formidable cot. We don't want oliegirl scanning the duke tonight, that would be a waste.

Fine, fine, I'm the Duke. I have no reason to distrust you or Lathum so I don't feel too bad about putting it out there.

[claphamsa]

Oliegirl- Lathum 959
Kwhit- Jackyl 1007, Pass 1008, heinze 1072
Seolion- Render1042, CW 1073
Heinze- Cronin878, CR1062, EagleFan1065, Seolion 1066,Kwhitt 1100

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Fine, fine, I'm the Duke. I have no reason to distrust you or Lathum so I don't feel too bad about putting it out there.

I so knew that you were...

[Seolian]

I know that I am not a wolfie and my hat does not really mean anything either.

http://www.cutelittlekittens.com/kitten/8341.html

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I so knew that you were...

I did sort of hint at it, good work.

I wanted to keep it in my back pocket and use it late in the game, but I think it helps us increase our percentages of nailing a wolf right now. Ain't looking pretty for you Heinzy.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I did sort of hint at it, good work.

I wanted to keep it in my back pocket and use it late in the game, but I think it helps us increase our percentages of nailing a wolf right now. Ain't looking pretty for you Heinzy.

Indeed it isn't.

*OR* people could try believing me and not lynch a kitteh.

[RendeR]

I'm either not thinking clearly today or there just isn't a lot of evidence to go around.

I'm still not impressed with the idea of anyone else revealing. Maybe I'm overthinking this though:

The unknown role(s) are the BG and the duke, I guess I'm stuck thinking the BG is pretty vital right now, but is it really?

If they both reveal, then we have at most 4 people left unknown and at most 3 dogs in those 4.

Someone with better math skills thans me sort that out, can we control the voting enough to hammer that out and still win with losing the roled players each night?

Help me clarify this in my brain folks =)

[Passacaglia]

253, 8:53 -- heinz calls out cronin
255, 8:57 -- KWhit agrees
256, 9:06 -- PB agrees
261, 9:12 -- Pass disagrees
266, 9:15 -- KWhit disagrees with my disagreeance
270, 9:17 -- heinz screws it and votes cronin

My bad -- 24 minutes, not an hour. It seems to me that the discussion was enough to convince you that a bandwagon could form.

[The Jackal]

I just revealed as the Duke, RendeR. I felt more comfortable with it after two players I semi-trust in this game encouraged it.

[Passacaglia]

heinz, you're going to love this. I looked at 626, where PB puts in a vote on EF. He says that EF's vote on cronin looks worse from what he's seen. I wonder why he chose EF of all the people who had votes on cronin at the time?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

My bad -- 24 minutes, not an hour. It seems to me that the discussion was enough to convince you that a bandwagon could form.

Oh you meant cronin (I thought you meant EF).

Yeah, I often do that. I'll bring up a point and see where it goes. I wasn't looking so much for other people joining me though as cronin's explaination.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

heinz, you're going to love this. I looked at 626, where PB puts in a vote on EF. He says that EF's vote on cronin looks worse from what he's seen. I wonder why he chose EF of all the people who had votes on cronin at the time?

It's the man keeping me down, I swear.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I just revealed as the Duke, RendeR. I felt more comfortable with it after two players I semi-trust in this game encouraged it.

I just saw that after I posted =)

I've got two digusting kids to clean up, someone find Lathum's list of who's Who for me so we can see what the best plan is and what smallish group we need to sift through? Please =)

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Seolian

I know that I am not a wolfie and my hat does not really mean anything either.

http://www.cutelittlekittens.com/kitten/8341.html

Okay, that did make me laugh.

Alas, I still think there's a high probability that of the two non-trusted people who left votes on hoops (the only challenger to save PB) last night, one of them is a wolf. And right now, it's you over EF, though I think you're both safe today anyway.

[Seolian]

It takes me a little while getting used to people before I start making a lot of posts and such.

[The Jackal]

Here's that list.

Originally Posted by Lathum

1.Hoopsguy
3.Kwitt
4.jeheinze
5.Lathum- claimed fool, scanned clear by olie
6.Mcollins- claimes lolcat
7.Passacaglia
8.RendeR
9.St. Cronin- claims stray
10.Oliegirl- claims seer
11.Eaglefan
12.the Jackal - claims duke
13.coffee warlord- scanned clear by olie
14.seolian
15.dangarion
17.Chief Rum

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

KWhit didn't hold off though, he posted multiple times in the last 10 minutes for people to NOT switch their vote. I think, if he's a wolf, if anything he knew that he couldn't switch. Same gambit I'm in I suppose. KWhit couldn't have gotten Cronin lynched, he was on Cronin already (as I was)


Re: EagleFan, something just didn't sit right with me in his early Day 2. Maybe it was just the rapid-fire calling out of like 3-4 people then

In the early goings he lists NINE people (me, collins, PB, Cronin, and half-calls-out you, Jackal, RendeR, olie, Lathum)

But what doesn't reconcile is in post 626, PB takes his vote from CW (where he was 1 of 2) and puts it on EF (and was the 1st voter). Now maybe PB was just keen there at EF was about to pick up votes based on the sheer number of people he pinged, but one would think that if PB, who at the time was ahead 6-2-2-2 was going to move it'd be to create a 6-3-2 situation and not a 6-2-2 one. Especially since Collins (one of the 2's) had some doubt on him.

So are you arguing that PB was up 6-2-2-2, and chose that time to throw away his vote on another wolf?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So are you arguing that PB was up 6-2-2-2, and chose that time to throw away his vote on another wolf?

No, I'm saying the opposite. I'm being devil's advocate and thinking he wouldn't do that.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Here's that list.

So we've got 6 allegedly cleared players and 9 uncleared players. I think if the BG comes forward (to ensure we don't mistakenly lynch him today...HAHAHAHA) and then protects Olie tonight so she can clear (or better yet, indict) one of the remaining 8 we would actually have a COT that outnumbers the amount of suspicious people remaining

So let's say I get lynched today, that'd leave 7 uncleared, 7 cleared, and let's say 3 wolves with the BG coming forward. Then they night kill the BG, but Olie clears one of the 7 uncleared, leaving 6 uncleared, 7 cleared, 3 wolves.

Always voting one of the uncleared with them taking out one of the cleared (starting with Olie, I"d presume) should end in a village win, provided none of the cleared folks are lying and getting away with it.

[The Jackal]

Or the bodyguard could not reveal, thereby forcing the wolves to guess and hopefully take out a regular kitten instead, both keeping the bodyguard alive and narrowing down our list of uncleared people.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

No, I'm saying the opposite. I'm being devil's advocate and thinking he wouldn't do that.

Then am I wrong in thinking that EF would be your top suspect? I know you've got your vote on KWhit now, but is that purely self-defense, or does he also happen to be your top suspect? I'm trying to see if you can convince me (and others) to move somewhere else.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Or the bodyguard could not reveal, thereby forcing the wolves to guess and hopefully take out a regular kitten instead, both keeping the bodyguard alive and narrowing down our list of uncleared people.

But what about the seer?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But what about the seer?

Not sure I follow what you're asking about.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Or the bodyguard could not reveal, thereby forcing the wolves to guess and hopefully take out a regular kitten instead, both keeping the bodyguard alive and narrowing down our list of uncleared people.

See I was thinking along this line as well, thank you for saying it.

What good is the bodyguard after tonight? Tonight he dies if he reveals, giving Olie one more scan, tomorrow Olie dies, they have no choice right?

So what good is staying secretive? who else can he protect that will make a real difference at this stage of the game? I think thats what I want to know. How does staying hidden really help us at all at this point?

[The Jackal]

I just don't see any merit in the BG revealing unless you want to avoid having a wolf claim BG when he's on the chopping block. But that nails us a wolf.

[Passacaglia]

I just think you're oversimplifying it -- a BG reveal would mean the wolves could guess between BG, seer or regular kitty. With the BG unrevealed, the wolves pretty much have to go regular kitty, cuz they can assume the seer is protected.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Then am I wrong in thinking that EF would be your top suspect? I know you've got your vote on KWhit now, but is that purely self-defense, or does he also happen to be your top suspect? I'm trying to see if you can convince me (and others) to move somewhere else.

I don't know what to think to be honest. On one hand, EF has acted fishy in this game as well, but I don't think PB would throw-away onto another wolf (thinking if it got close again he'd have to switch again anyhow, and his votes will be scrutinized should he get lynched)

Right now, I like the idea of KWhit as the wolf (admiteddly for close to the same reasons as me, only difference is he was 2nd onto Cronin on Day One and he took the opposite tactic at the deadline, saying no one should move in an attempt to break the tie) ever-so-slightly more than EF as a wolf.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by RendeR

See I was thinking along this line as well, thank you for saying it.

What good is the bodyguard after tonight? Tonight he dies if he reveals, giving Olie one more scan, tomorrow Olie dies, they have no choice right?

So what good is staying secretive? who else can he protect that will make a real difference at this stage of the game? I think thats what I want to know. How does staying hidden really help us at all at this point?

Well we don't know who the BG protected last night. Could've been himself, could've been Olie, could've been cronin. I think that plays into the village's favor, because the wolves don't know who the BG protected either. A night block by the BG in the next few days would help a lot.

I could be missing something here, but I don't see the need for a BG reveal.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

But what about the seer?

Olie is dead on night 4 no matter what the BG does at this point. because he has to protect her tonight and he can't protect her two nights in a row.

The seer is toast tomorrow night. So the seer is rather irrelevent.

[oliegirl]

VOTE HEINZ

[Passacaglia]

olie, you around for a while? i'd like to convince you not to scan hoops

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Olie is dead on night 4 no matter what the BG does at this point. because he has to protect her tonight and he can't protect her two nights in a row.

The seer is toast tomorrow night. So the seer is rather irrelevent.

Possibly. But the wolves kind of have to assume Olie is being protected, because it's a risky move to go after her tonight. Heinz and I went through this with Narc/KWhit last game.

And I don't particularly like that the people pushing for the BG reveal are uncleared people at this point.