The official 2008 MLB thread

[Lathum]

It's awesome to see Kerry Wood back at an all star game

[Lathum]

longest introductions ever

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Lathum

longest introductions ever

Yeah, its pretty bad. Steinbrenner has really gone downhill quickly.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Yeah, its pretty bad. Steinbrenner has really gone downhill quickly.

He didn't look good. Is he sick?

[Chief Rum]

Papelbon shouldn't even be an All Star this year.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Radii

He didn't look good. Is he sick?

I think he's been slowing down for awhile now. I don't even think he's been at the Yankees playoff games in the last few years.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Perhaps just as appropriate?

Uhhh...Unless I'm missing something, they both deserve to be on the all-star team.

[MrBug708]

Papelbon should be there before Nathan but after Mariano and K-Rod

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Karl, I agree - my point was that if someone is making a stink about Papelbon being on, they should look at K-Rod, whose numbers are worse.

oic

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Karl, I agree - my point was that if someone is making a stink about Papelbon being on, they should look at K-Rod, whose numbers are worse.

Numbers are worse?

[Lathum]

Joe Buck just kind of insulted me.

He was talking about Hamilton and all his demons and said " he was doing drugs, booze and look at all the tattoos"

Obviously if you have tattoos you are an addict of some sort

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Karl, I agree - my point was that if someone is making a stink about Papelbon being on, they should look at K-Rod, whose numbers are worse.

You sure about that? KRod has better save numbers and ERA right now. He also has the record for most saves before the All Star break. Even suggesting Papelbon is having a better year than him is frankly showing off yer Red Sox pantyhose.

As for Papelbon, I stated my point earlier in this thread when the teams came out. There is no sense in having six closers on this team. At least one should have been dropped for a starting pitcher, like Danks or Shields from TB.

Ideally, Sherrill would be dropped--but I am pretty sure he is the O's only rep.

That leaves dropping one of the other five--and Rivera, Soria, Nathan and K-Rod are all having better years than Papelbon.

It's not about whether Papelbon deserves to be on the team. He does. But he shouldn't be on this team, the way this is constructed. He is having a very good year, as usual. But he isn't one of the best five closers in the major leagues statistically right now.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Numbers are worse?

Shh...you might actually get him to research his bias before he posts, and what fun would that be?

[MrBug708]

You don't even need to look at saves to see K-Rod is having the better year

[MrBug708]

I was also going to go with W/L's because that's where WHIP actually starts to mean something for closers. Frankie walks a lot of batters, much more so then Papelbon, but who cares? He leads the majors in saves and has fewer blown saves.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Ok, present your case.

Better H/9, and OppBA. Better HR/9. Much, much more saves (which you can ignore all you want, but most of the rest of the world consider it at least somewhat of an important stat for a closer). 0.7 better ERA is STILL better--and Franky had to have a really bad week last week to get you that close.

Save percentage. Another biggie. Even if saves are inflated, blown saves still almost always == losses.

And that's on top of the record thingie.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Papelbon has blown 4 saves to K-Rod's 3. Is that enough to mitigate the advantages that Papelbon has in the other stats?

No, it's not. And that's not even counting the stats I presented above.

[Chief Rum]

And Paps blew his four in nine less chances.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Papelbon has blown 4 saves to K-Rod's 3. Is that enough to mitigate the advantages that Papelbon has in the other stats?

Considering you seem to like using K/9, BB/9, and WHIP, I'd say that it's very important. K-Rod does walk more batters which obviously skews two of those three stats, but when the percentage of them are less likely to score, does it really matter?


You are talking about a probability of over 5% more likely that K-Rod will close out the game then Papelbon will.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

H/9 and OppBA are the same stat. Hr/9 is 3 to 2. That and BS (4 to 3) are such small sample sizes you can't really make an argument on them.

K-Rod is walking so many more people that despite having a much better H/9, he's getting killed in WHIP. This indicates to me that K-Rod has gotten lucky at times (just look at Dice-K) and that that .07 lead in ERA will be gone sooner rather than later.

Lucky? Or less prone to giving up a critical hit...ie mental toughness

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

He's CLUTCH.

Plus, Papelbon's BABIP is .313 to K-Rod's .244, perhaps enumerating that "luck" that I was referencing.

Luck or not (and I would argue that a bit), fact is, there are a lot of numbers in K-Rod's favor. More than in Papelbon's favor and more that are more important to their role in the game and more that are generally acknowledged by the general baseball-following public.

[Chief Rum]

And what's really funny is that Rodriguez, even better than Paps, is probably the best guy to for a Paps fan to do a challenge on. Papelbon is nowhere near where Rivera, Nathan or even Soria are. If it weren't for Sherrill, Papelbon would be the worst reliever on the team (not that being "worst" on an AS team is bad, of course).

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Lucky? Or less prone to giving up a critical hit...ie mental toughness

Dusty? Is that you?

[sterlingice]

(I'll take the Mexicutioner, thanks )

SI

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The general baseball-following public elects the starting line ups for the All-Star games. This year notwithstanding, are you sure they're who you want on your side?

When they're right, yes.

[MrBug708]

I'm wearing Dodger Chonies and probably root for the Angels ahead of just the Giants

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Honestly, to me it's six of one a half dozen of the other on these guys. But perhaps there's something more than "Red Sox pantyhose" or "bias" at work here?

I actually agree. There isn't much difference. They're both great closers. But you pretty much categorically stated Papelbon was having a better year, and no one made you make that statement. You have to be prepared to be questioned on it, especially since I would view the above as a significant step back from that statement.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Chief, I picked K-Rod because it was an Angels fan bemoaning Paps presence on the team. Rivera, Nathan, and Soria are ALL having better seasons than both of them. That's pretty apparent, even to those wearing Angels underoos.

Never said otherwise.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The first thing I said was saying "K-Rod shouldn't be an All-Star" is equally appropriate as "Papelbon shouldn't be an All-Star." Seems to me that's another way of saying six of one, a half dozen of the other. I said his stats were better, and obviously you disagree on which stats are most pertinent. You categorically stated that Papelbon shouldn't be an All-Star, then resorted to childish name-calling to back up your point.

Could you point that out to me? Because nowhere did I call you names.

I stated my case when the teams came out and restated it again above. So at least I didn't just throw out a petty response specifically geared to goad me into this discussion.

[kingfc22]

And ironically a Red Sox member ties it up.

[MrBug708]

Hows that WHIP doing right now?

[MizzouRah]

GO NL!!!

[Buccaneer]

Wow. A Padres actually did something good in the AS game for once.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Hm. I'd say Navarro is the one to blame, but thanks for further discrediting your intelligent arguments.

Going to bed, it's been fun.

You've yet to come up with an argument on how Papelbon is the better closer...? The only thing worse then a blown save, is a loss. Lucky for me, Papelbon ended this argument pretty easily

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

These were definitely conducive to legit conversation on the subject.

That's not childish namecalling. That's not even namecalling period.

Even if you want to make it a point about it not being positive, sorry, but this isn't Disneyland, and you don't get to just say what you want and expect no one to call you on it. I called it straight. You presented what I believed to be a biased, unresearched argument that you backed with, well, nothing until challenged, and on top of that, you intentionally baited me. But I guess you're the big man, huh?

I call it like I see it. Sorry you don't like it.

There's a big difference between "namecalling" and being calling it like it is. I would appreciate it if you remembered that next time.

[kingfc22]

Come on Wilson. I didn't see Lincecum so at least make me a little happy to be a Giants fan.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Come on Wilson. I didn't see Lincecum so at least make me a little happy to be a Giants fan.

i feel bad for Timmy

[Lathum]

I think it is great that they bring in Wagner with 2 outs and nobody on. Limit the damage he can do.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it is great that they bring in Wagner with 2 outs and nobody on. Limit the damage he can do.

Go Wagner!

[Lathum]

perhaps I spoke to soon

[Lathum]

OMG

[kingfc22]

Should have kept Wilson in. Damn you Hurdle!

[MizzouRah]

Thanks Wagner!

Damn.. can the NL win one? I have this weird feeling..

[Jas_lov]

Papelbum blows it, then Wagner blows it. Yankees fans are loving this! Too bad Mariano can't get the save here.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

i feel bad for Timmy

Really wanted him to get a chance to shine on the big stage since the Giants won't be there for a while.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Papelbum blows it, then Wagner blows it. Yankees fans are loving this! Too bad Mariano can't get the save here.

But he can get the L

[Chief Rum]

Francona should have left K-Rod in. Franky doesn't even start trying until he lets the first two batters get on for kicks.

[samifan24]

That Babe Ruth "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" ad is absolutely terrible. I can't mute it fast enough.

[Radii]

DAMMIT. come on NL.

[Radii]

jesus christ. Way to go Uggla.