2006-07 Soccer Thread

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

The complicating factor is that the FA signed off on the transfers originally

So the FA can't seriously punish West Ham without implicating itself.

The Glorius and Esteemed English FA can NEVER be wrong!!!!

(This is also why McClaren will never be fired unless England fail to qualify for the world cup)

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

So the FA can't seriously punish West Ham without implicating itself.

The Glorius and Esteemed English FA can NEVER be wrong!!!!

(This is also why McClaren will never be fired unless England fail to qualify for the world cup)

They didnt actually sign off on the deal originally. As far as I'm aware there was basically a secret 2nd contract with each player that they kept hidden from the FA.

[MylesKnight]

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_yl...v=st&type=lgns

West Ham won't appeal $11 million Premier League fine

May 9, 2007

LONDON (Ticker) - Struggling West Ham United said Wednesday it will not appeal the record fine of nearly $11 million imposed by the Premier League's independent commission over the signings of Argentine stars Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano.

The penalty followed a two-day hearing at the end of last month, when the commission concluded that the players were partially owned by Media Sports Investment, a company formerly run by Iranian-born businessman Kia Joorabchian. That ran contrary to Premier League rules.

However, the club controversially avoided a points deduction and subsequently has climbed above the three relegation places.

New West Ham chairman Eggert Magnusson was not involved in last summer's signings.

"I think it is now time to draw a line under this matter," he said in a statement. "The fine imposed on us was very significant, but we accept mistakes were made and it is now time to move on.

"Our intention as a club is to be totally focused on Sunday's game (at Manchester United). We know our fate, like every other club, will be decided, where it should be - on the pitch."

West Ham's decision not to appeal is not a surprise, given that the punishment was deemed lenient by their relegation rivals.

With Premiership TV revenue to soar higher than ever when a lucrative new contract kicks in, West Ham can expect to make back the fine several times over if it avoid relegation - which seems likely.

Fulham, Sheffield United, Wigan and already-relegated Charlton have threatened to take legal action against the commission's failure to deduct points.

Mascherano has since signed with Liverpool.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like West Ham United is doing what they can to get this over with and sweep it under the rug. Thoughts?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by MylesKnight

Sounds like West Ham United is doing what they can to get this over with and sweep it under the rug. Thoughts?

My thought is that you're exactly right. That's why I hope they go down this weekend.

[tanglewood]

FYI the current investigation and fine was made against West Ham by the Premier League, not the FA. The FA originally cleared the deal in August and now have nothing to do with it. 3rd party ownership is against Premier League rules, not FA rules necessarily, so it is they who took action against West Ham once the situation of Tevez and Mascherano's contract was made known to them by Liverpool.

[Crapshoot]

Here's a good summary of what's going on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...em/6638575.stm

IMO, West Ham are fine - I don't really think its a big deal at all.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

They didnt actually sign off on the deal originally. As far as I'm aware there was basically a secret 2nd contract with each player that they kept hidden from the FA.

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

So the FA can't seriously punish West Ham without implicating itself.

Not quite. What I'm getting after is that because Tevez was eligible to play in England and for West Ham from the FA's point of view, so it's a much different thing than the straw man about Wigan showing up with an all-star team.

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Here's a good summary of what's going on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...em/6638575.stm

IMO, West Ham are fine - I don't really think its a big deal at all.

Based on that article, I don't agree about it not being a big deal.

The Commission concluded that a deduction of points "would normally follow from such a breach of rules".

That looks pretty significant to me.

[MylesKnight]

From the BBC Sports Article;

In its judgement, the Premier League's Independent Commission said: "This was not only an obvious and deliberate breach of the rules, but a grave breach of trust as to the Premier League and its constituent members.

"In our finding the club has been responsible for dishonesty and deceit."


It sounds like West Ham dishonored the integrity of the sport altogether. When you take into account the financial figures involved, and the fact that if West Ham avoids relegation and thus receives their piece of the Premiership Television Rights Money, it seems as if the punishment is nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

Check out this article on what the new TV Deal is worth for each Club.



http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...427148&cc=5901


Report reveals promotion is worth £60million

LONDON, May 3 (Reuters) - The seven clubs competing for the remaining promotion slot to the English Premier League are fighting for more than just bragging rights - there is an unprecedented paycheck for the winners, too.

Promotion to the world's most lucrative soccer league will deliver as much as 60 million pounds ($120 million) - including 50 million pounds linked to a new TV deal - accountancy firm Deloitte & Touche said in a report on Thursday, the first published estimate of reaching the top tier.

'The Football League Championship Play-Off Final on 28 May will again represent the biggest financial prize in world football,' the report said.

Birmingham City and Sunderland have already won promotion and locked in their gains. Last year, teams promoted from the Championship, or second division, received 40 million pounds, the accountancy firm said.

Seven second-division clubs are still in the running to win the third promotion place, including Southampton, whose parent company, Leisure Holdings Plc, has said it had received a takeover offer.

Southampton, whose shares soared more than 30 percent after the announcement, has not named the suitor, and any bid is unlikely until after the play-offs, a source familiar with the situation said.

The four teams that will play in the promotion play-offs will be known after this weekend's league games, with the play-off final to be played in the new Wembley stadium on May 28.

'With seven Championship clubs still chasing a place in the play-offs, the final fixtures on Sunday promise drama and tension on the pitch, on the terraces and in the boardroom,' said Paul Rawnsley, director of the Sports Business Group at Deloitte.

Interest in UK soccer clubs from U.S. tycoons has soared over the past two years because of rising ticket, marketing and television revenues.

The Premier League, the largest and most profitable in soccer, has doubled its sales to 2 billion euros ($2.73 billion) in five years, with matches being broadcast in more than 200 countries.

U.S. billionaires George Gillett and Tom Hicks bought Champions League finalists Liverpool earlier this year, while Texas oil magnate Malcolm Glazer bought league leaders Manchester United for 790 million pounds in 2005.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by MylesKnight

It sounds like West Ham dishonored the integrity of the sport altogether.

I think that's a slight flight of hyperbole. They flaunted a (somewhat technical*) rule of the league, but it's a league thing only, the FA itself is not involved which automatically (in my eyes) keeps it below the level of "the integrity of the sport".


*I say it's somewhat technical because the issue seems to be that the contracted party had a buy-out option, which for an American sports fan seems pretty usual. As far as I can tell from the previously-linked BBC article, the issue is the combination of the buyout with fact that the contracted parties weren't the players themselves — if I read it right, it would have been OK for Tevez and Mascherano to have a buyout, but it's not OK for an intermediary party that manages them to have a buyout.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

*I say it's somewhat technical because the issue seems to be that the contracted party had a buy-out option, which for an American sports fan seems pretty usual. As far as I can tell from the previously-linked BBC article, the issue is the combination of the buyout with fact that the contracted parties weren't the players themselves — if I read it right, it would have been OK for Tevez and Mascherano to have a buyout, but it's not OK for an intermediary party that manages them to have a buyout.

I don't think American sports fans would think third parties having buyouts for players is usual or good for the sport. Can you imagine if a basketball player has a contract that allowed Nike to buy out the rest of the deal at some point? Nike wants LeBron James in LA, even though LeBron likes Cleveland (at that moment in time), and unilaterally terminates the deal with a payoff. There would be pandemonum from the fans.

[KeyserSoze]

Yesterday the Getafe (a suburb of Madrid) beated down the mighty Barcelona 4-0 to reach the final of the "Copa del Rey" (our only cup trophy). Really really shocking

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I don't think American sports fans would think third parties having buyouts for players is usual or good for the sport. Can you imagine if a basketball player has a contract that allowed Nike to buy out the rest of the deal at some point? Nike wants LeBron James in LA, even though LeBron likes Cleveland (at that moment in time), and unilaterally terminates the deal with a payoff. There would be pandemonum from the fans.

if Nike or the League were to force or aggressivly encourage Lebron to leave Clevland for NY or LA i would stop watching all NBA games. granted i only watch Rockets games, but out of respect for all "small markets" ( thats NBA talk for anyone not in sexy cities) i would boycott them.

[Critch]

Using another US sports analogy, the League has acted like a basketball referee in the last couple of minutes of a game and let the players decide the outcome instead of a call.

When the punishment was announced West Ham were still odds on to be relegated, a points punishment would have finished them off. The fine alone leaves it in the hands of the players. Wigan won't go down (if they do) because of a West Ham contract, they'll go down because they've folded over the last few weeks while West Ham have raised their game, all the whining in the world won't change that.

So basically I don't know what I want. West Ham cheated so I'd like them to go down, but if they manage to get a point at Man Utd then they've earned their place in next years EPL and Wigan have bottled it at the wrong time and earned their place in the Championship without a whining court case.

[ISiddiqui]

On the other hand, one of the main reasons West Ham may barely avoid relegation is the play of Tevez recently, one of the players they cheated to get (likely would not be able to afford him without the 3rd party involved).

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

On the other hand, one of the main reasons West Ham may barely avoid relegation is the play of Tevez recently, one of the players they cheated to get (likely would not be able to afford him without the 3rd party involved).

Yip, you could say that too. It's a mess, the league brought it on themselves by approving Tevez to play despite the widely reported involvement of a third party.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Critch

Using another US sports analogy, the League has acted like a basketball referee in the last couple of minutes of a game and let the players decide the outcome instead of a call.

When the punishment was announced West Ham were still odds on to be relegated, a points punishment would have finished them off. The fine alone leaves it in the hands of the players. Wigan won't go down (if they do) because of a West Ham contract, they'll go down because they've folded over the last few weeks while West Ham have raised their game, all the whining in the world won't change that.

So basically I don't know what I want. West Ham cheated so I'd like them to go down, but if they manage to get a point at Man Utd then they've earned their place in next years EPL and Wigan have bottled it at the wrong time and earned their place in the Championship without a whining court case.

That's why I so badly want West Ham to go down this weekend. Then people can still freak out and sue the EPL or whatever, but regardless it will mean West Ham are going down because of on-field results and no one can possibly complain.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

On the other hand, one of the main reasons West Ham may barely avoid relegation is the play of Tevez recently, one of the players they cheated to get (likely would not be able to afford him without the 3rd party involved).

They've bought out the offending clause, IIUC. It's open to debate whether they would have been able to get him at the time, but as I understand it the relationship is normal now.

[daedalus]

Yes, the book says Manchester United lost and Arsenal drew this weekend.

Having watched the Manchester Unitned-West Ham game, Man U played like a champion. From description of the Arsenal game, Arsenal did not earn 3rd place. FUCKING SIGH.

Granted, that was one funky ass lineup Mr Wenger threw out there today. But that's still no excuse in my opinion. You want it, you earn it. Regardless. We didn't.

[Critch]

I watched the Sheffield United v Wigan game, two bad teams beating the crap out of each other in the rain but still great drama. The last 20 minutes when Wigan were down to 10 men was real backs-to-the-wall action.

Now let the whining and threats of court cases begin.

Still got the playoffs on Setanta to keep the entertainment up. Yesterdays Southampton v Derby and todays Wolves v WBA games have been two great games.

[cthomer5000]

Bummed that West Ham survived. I watched the Man U - West Ham and Manchester United was the better team, they just didnt capitalize on a number of great opportunites. Some sick saves by Green and one amazing clearance by Benayoun.

Very relieved that Tottenham finished 5th and grabbed a UEFA spot. The UEFA spot was very likely headed into today, but not certain. Finishing 5th really makes this season a complete success to me, i think they can take another step forward next year.

Last year they finished 5th and played 40 total games, being knocked out of the Carling and FA Cup in the first games. This year they played 59 games, going to the Carling semifinals, the FA Cup quarterfinals, and the UEFA Cup quarterfinals. It was a very entertaining season. To do all that and only be slightly worse in the league is a very good sign to me. If they get a little deeper I think they can start challenging for the 4th Champions League spot.

Now they'd better spend an assload on defenders during the summer transfer window. Finishing 5th with just a +3 goal differential is scary!

[Marc Vaughan]

Bummed that West Ham survived. I watched the Man U - West Ham and Manchester United was the better team, they just didnt capitalize on a number of great opportunites. Some sick saves by Green and one amazing clearance by Benayoun.

I'm the opposite - I'm very happy they survived, its another season in the Premiership for Zamora (who managed a decent return of 11 goals this season - in a team fighting relegation!).

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'm the opposite - I'm very happy they survived, its another season in the Premiership for Zamora (who managed a decent return of 11 goals this season - in a team fighting relegation!).

On the pitch I like them a whole lot, it's nothing against the players or the style of play. It's purely my stance on the league dealing with the issue. I think they've shown they have no backbone and made a poor decision that could set a poor precedent long-term.

In related news I'm surprised Wigan had it in them. They were dead team walking for the last 5-6 weeks.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I'm the opposite - I'm very happy they survived, its another season in the Premiership for Zamora (who managed a decent return of 11 goals this season - in a team fighting relegation!).

But Sheffield United has Colin Kazim-Richards, so it's still an ex-Brighton player being relegated

I'd have liked to see West Ham go down just to save us the summer of complaining and court case threats, but if West Ham have to stay up then I'm ok with Sheffield United going down. Wigan may be a team with a rich owner and no fans in a rugby league town, but at least they're interesting and you don't cringe whenever their manager opens his mouth.

edit - I just read an article about Zamora where it mentions that West Ham youth academy released Zamora, Fitz Hall, Paul Konchensky and Jlloyd Samuel on the same day. Not a good day for their youth talent spotter.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Now they'd better spend an assload on defenders during the summer transfer window. Finishing 5th with just a +3 goal differential is scary!

Younes Kaboul in for 7.5mil and Hossam Ghali out would be a good start. Ghali has been hopeless all season, hopefully his shirt throwing tantrum will be the final nail for him.

Just so long as Spurs can hold onto Berbatov next season should be good. Without the slow start they'd have been a good deal closer to challenging for 4th again this year.

[Critch]

Post count padding double dola 4 teh win.....

Paul Jewell has quit Wigan. If Allardyce is going to Newcastle United, maybe Jewell is lined up for Man City?

[cthomer5000]

I've found Jewell to be a totally likeable guy, I do hope he remains in the premiership. As far as I'm aware there aren't any actual open jobs right now, but rumors have definitely been swirling around Man City for large parts of the year.

Is Bolton definitely going with Sammy Lee as manager for 07/08?

[cthomer5000]

Xavier joins Beckham in LA





Abel Xavier is to link up with David Beckham after joining LA Galaxy.
The Portuguese defender arrives at Galaxy on a free transfer after leaving Middlesbrough last week.


Xavier left Boro after rejecting the club's offer of a new deal at The Riverside.

Reports over the weekend suggested Newcastle and Sunderland were pondering a move for the former Liverpool and Everton man, but Galaxy hav won the race for his signature.

Xavier has inked an 18-month deal at the MLS outfit and he is expected to link up with Beckham down the right side of the Galaxy side.



=============


Weird that he was even thinking MLS... I knew he was done at boro... I guess this can only be good for MLS. We also know he's making under 800K for this season and probably next as well, to avoid having to acquire another designated player spot to use on him.

[Critch]

Xavier is 34 years old and hasn't been a first team regular since he left Everton in 2001, although part of that time he was suspended for failing a drug test. He's a bit of a risky signing, doesnt last long at any club.

Pretty sure his girlfriend is some porn actress, maybe he wanted her near hollywood

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I've found Jewell to be a totally likeable guy, I do hope he remains in the premiership. As far as I'm aware there aren't any actual open jobs right now, but rumors have definitely been swirling around Man City for large parts of the year.

Is Bolton definitely going with Sammy Lee as manager for 07/08?

Pearce was fired from Citeh this morning. I could see Jewell taking over either job.

Xavier is an awful signing.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Is Bolton definitely going with Sammy Lee as manager for 07/08?

From what I've read, Sammy Lee was promoted from assistant manager to manager, not caretaker. So I think he's in for next season at least.

Wigan have apparently done the same thing, promoted Jewell's assistant Chris Hutchings to be the new manager. One way of ensuring some kind of continuity and not losing him to wherever Jewell ends up.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Critch

Wigan may be a team with a rich owner and no fans in a rugby league town, but at least they're interesting and you don't cringe whenever their manager opens his mouth.

What's your standard for cringing whenever their manager opens his mouth?

(Not that it matters going forward, with Jewell out, but still...)

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

What's your standard for cringing whenever their manager opens his mouth?

(Not that it matters going forward, with Jewell out, but still...)

I didn't mean that Jewell was cringe-worthy. I meant Neil Warnock at Sheffield United, everything he's said for months has been complaining about how other managers are running their teams. As the commentator said during the game, maybe if he'd worried about his own team and let other managers worry about their own, Sheffield United wouldn't have been relegated.

[MylesKnight]

I've got a question.. Does FSC (Fox Soccer Channel) carry the English Championship League Playoffs?

Derby County vs. Southampton
West Bromwich Albion vs. Wolverhampton

By the way, the Semis are Home-and-Home Aggregate, but the Final is a Single Match. Where does that take place?

This would be some very exciting stuff to see.

[tanglewood]

The playoff final for all of the leagues are played on three consecutive days at Wembley. Traditionally you have League 2 on Saturday, League 1 on Sunday and then the Championship final on the Monday.

[Butter]

Setanta has the Championship TV rights.

[SirFozzie]

Setanta Sports has the lower leagues contract, I've been Tivoing all of the games. Great Atmosphere!

The Final takes place at the newly renovated Wembley Stadium

How popular is Wembley? 53,000 people recently attended the NON-LEAGUE version of the FA Cup final (Called the FA Trophy).. Let's put it this way.. these teams average about 1,000-1,500 per game for their home games.

One of my friends joked "I wonder about the condition of the field for the Playoff Finals and the FA Cup Finals, because there must have been about 20 players shitting a brick about playing in front of 53,000 people at Wembley!"

[MylesKnight]

Thanks for the info.

A follow up to this would be how do you guys feel the newly promoted teams to the EPL will fare next season?

Sunderland?
Birmingham City?
TBD?

And who do you like getting through the Championship Playoffs for Promotion as well?

[Butter]

Birmingham has a good chance of staying up, but cracking the top 10 a la Wigan and Reading is probably out of reach unless they hire a real manager.

Sunderland will go straight back down after getting their every other year payday.

I think Southampton is a decent bet to come back from their 2-1 first leg loss and win their semifinal and win the final. They have a lot of talent that underperformed this season, but is ripe for a good run if they can shake off their inconsistency. I would love to see the South Coast derby return to the EPL (Southampton-Portsmouth).

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by MylesKnight

Thanks for the info.

A follow up to this would be how do you guys feel the newly promoted teams to the EPL will fare next season?

Sunderland?
Birmingham City?
TBD?

And who do you like getting through the Championship Playoffs for Promotion as well?

I think the odds are that two of the three will yo-yo back down. Sunderland might have a good shot (Keane's been there so long, he knows what needs to be done.

For the third spot? West Brom is my guess right now (What a first leg it was between them and Wolves, 3-2 West Brom lead heading to the 2nd leg at their house)

[MylesKnight]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Setanta Sports has the lower leagues contract, I've been Tivoing all of the games. Great Atmosphere!

The Final takes place at the newly renovated Wembley Stadium

How popular is Wembley? 53,000 people recently attended the NON-LEAGUE version of the FA Cup final (Called the FA Trophy).. Let's put it this way.. these teams average about 1,000-1,500 per game for their home games.

One of my friends joked "I wonder about the condition of the field for the Playoff Finals and the FA Cup Finals, because there must have been about 20 players shitting a brick about playing in front of 53,000 people at Wembley!"

So let me see if I've got this straight..

- The FA Cup is open to all levels in England and is the most prestigious

- The Football League Cup is open only to the EPL and Football League Clubs (Championship, One & Two Leagues)

- The Football League Trophy is open to only Football League One and Football League Two Teams

- The FA Trophy is open to all levels below the Football League (beginning with the Football Conference National League)

There are a handful of other Tournaments but I believe that I've got all of the biggies.

[tanglewood]

Yes that is correct. The Football League Trophy currently the rather ridiculously named Johnstone's Paint Trophy is nothing but a nuisance for most clubds and spectators that IMHO should be scrapped. Even the clubs don't generally field full strength teams until the semis and attendance is usually well down on League and other cup matches.

[Coder]

Not going to repost the entire thing I posted in the Youtube-thread, but check this link out

Swedish Premier League isn't much to boast about, but Andres Vasquez goal is suh-weeet!

[waynegomez]

Originally Posted by MylesKnight

Thanks for the info.

A follow up to this would be how do you guys feel the newly promoted teams to the EPL will fare next season?

Sunderland?
Birmingham City?
TBD?

And who do you like getting through the Championship Playoffs for Promotion as well?

As a Birmingham City supporter, I would say the chances of us staying up depend primarily on how Brucie spends the extra transfer money he's been given by our Chairmanm, Mr. Gold. Signing Fabrice Muamba to a permanent deal was a nice start. Let's see what he does with the rest of the budget. Brucie's transfer selections are definitely a roller coaster ride of hits and misses.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Coder

Not going to repost the entire thing I posted in the Youtube-thread, but check this link out

Swedish Premier League isn't much to boast about, but Andres Vasquez goal is suh-weeet!

You could have saved your time and read post 1034 in this thread.

[SirFozzie]

what a game in the 2nd leg. Southampton win 3-2 on the road, but that just makes it 4-4 (and away goals are not used in the English Playoffs), the two teams play 30 scoreless minutes of Extra Time, and it goes to cruel cruel penalties, where a former Derby player misses the final penalty and Derby win 4-3 on penalties (They would have had one more chance to score, Southampton also missed their first PK)

[Critch]

I kind of like the playoffs now, but I hate teams ending their season by losing on penalty kicks. I'd rather they just put through the team who were highest in the table in the case of a draw after 2 legs. Which tonight would have had the same result as penalties, Derby County through.

On top of it being an ex-Derby player who missed the deciding penalty (and it looked like he was going to miss from the moment he stepped forward), it was an ex-Derby player scoring in the last minute of regular time to get Southampton to extra time and penalties.

Other than the MK Dons v Shrewsbury snooze-fest, every playoff game I've seen has been great.

Tomorrow is a tough choice, WBA v Wolves 2nd leg on Setanta, UEFA Cup final on FSC. Two more weeks of great soccer before a long, boring, non-World Cup summer.

[ISiddiqui]

There is the MLS.

[tanglewood]

And more importantly () the Copa America.

Edit: Plus La Liga doesn't end for another month.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

There is the MLS.

Oops, didn't mean to miss out the MLS. Forgot about it, which is strange since I got my DC United v Houston tickets yesterday.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

And more importantly () the Copa America.

Edit: Plus La Liga doesn't end for another month.

Under-20 World Cup and the Gold Cup (I think) too. There will still be soccer around, just not the saturation level I've been enjoying for the last couple of weeks.