The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

[Groundhog]

Duncan with 4-23 shooting today... sheesh. 26 rebounds but 11 of those off the offensive glass, I'd wager mostly his own misses.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

WTH are we going to do with Gooden?

Board consensus is, this guy sucks. I certainly haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise. We give up a solid forward in Thornton and a steady, younger PG in Telfair for this guy? What am I missing? Is Dumbleavy just trading to trade now?

Hate to use Twitter for news, but Adrian Wojnaroski is saying the Clips are buying out Gooden so it was purely for cap reasons.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/9258046429

SI

[Groundhog]

Hard to tell what the Clips are doing. Obviously they are trying to save cash (as usual), but having said that, Thornton and Camby made for a clogged frontcourt with Kaman and Griffin, so I can sorta see why they'd move those guys, and the fact that they were reluctant to let go of Deandre Jordan - who has shown glimpses when given time - means that at least they aren't completely stupid and out to cut costs.

I just don't understand how they weren't able to acquire a few draft picks out of these deals though, at the least. Christ, even 2nd rounders.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Hard to tell what the Clips are doing. Obviously they are trying to save cash (as usual), but having said that, Thornton and Camby made for a clogged frontcourt with Kaman and Griffin, so I can sorta see why they'd move those guys, and the fact that they were reluctant to let go of Deandre Jordan - who has shown glimpses when given time - means that at least they aren't completely stupid and out to cut costs.

I just don't understand how they weren't able to acquire a few draft picks out of these deals though, at the least. Christ, even 2nd rounders.

Obviously so they can take Tayshaun Prince from us for a bag of balls. I'll evne spring for postage.

[bhlloy]

I don't think the decision to move Camby and Thornton was a bad idea per se, but like you say to not get any draft picks or young guys back is absolutely criminal.

Cap space is nice, but when you are the joke of the league and not going to be able to use any of that cap space anyway and you have the cheapest owner in the country, FFS get some young guys and build around them. Griffin and Gordon is a good core to be competitive in 2-3 years.

As a sometime Clippers fan I see no rhyme or reason in any of these moves except to save Sterling some $$$. At this point I don't know why anyone is still going to the games.

[RainMaker]

It only makes sense if you are able to grab a stud free agent. I have to admit, while the Clippers reputation is in the shitter, you guys do have an intriguing team for a guy like Lebron. Kaman is a solid Center and Gordon and Griffin are young studs that can grow around Lebron. It would give him a solid nucleus for the next 4-5 years. It's a major market and L.A. is L.A.

If winning is priority #1 in his mind, the Clippers make a strong case to be his choice.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It only makes sense if you are able to grab a stud free agent. I have to admit, while the Clippers reputation is in the shitter, you guys do have an intriguing team for a guy like Lebron. Kaman is a solid Center and Gordon and Griffin are young studs that can grow around Lebron. It would give him a solid nucleus for the next 4-5 years. It's a major market and L.A. is L.A.

If winning is priority #1 in his mind, the Clippers make a strong case to be his choice.

Yeah, I tossed something like this around for gristle near the start of the season. Gordon, Griffin, Kaman, B-Davis, a new lottery pick this year and an estimated $23-26 M in cap space--or enough to bring on two superstars. And in LA, competing head to head with the Lakers in the same building.

But, it's the Clippers...the bleepin' Clippers...

[whomario]

huge day ... First off : I hate the "30 day and returning", players shouldn´t be allowed to return for the rest of the season.
Really mindblowing that this loophole still exists.

If Z returns, how do they get everyone playing time btw ?

There´s no PT at SF for Jamison behind Lebron, you have Shaq,Varejao,Hickson and Z up front.


Another deal : Kevin Martin to the Rockets for Tracy MacGrady and Carl Landry ... (other throw ins : Rodriguez, Armstrong, Thomas for the Kings, Joey Dorsey for the Rockets)
Still a possibility the Knicks will be involved to get T-Mac. And maybe Rodriguez, Antoni is a huge fan of him.

Not too sure about this ... Landry is a favourite and was having an amazing season and also would have worked very well with a healthy Yao as he was extending his game ...
Rodriguez i love, but he clearly isn´t more than a fringe NBA player for now and has no place with Brooks/Lowry... Hilton Armstrong imo just doesn´t have the smarts to be more than a 10-15 mpg energy guy and kenny thomas isn´t getting younger or bigger ...

If Yao gets healthy this might just work Martin (when healthy ... The irony ...) can score off the ball and is a great scorer to take pressure off of Yao to be the man offensively. Plus Adelman coached him before.
Will be interesting to see.

But for this season i´m not sure swapping landry for Martin is a good thing as their perimeter scoring was ok overall...


as for game action :

- CJ Watson scores 40 (16-23 shooting). Only for Don Nelson ...Curry bounces back from a bad game to score 24 with 15 assists

- Memphis finally wins again, beating toronto. The +- numbers are hilarious and tell the story 100% : The Grizzlies bench just isn´t any good.

- Dwight Howard with a beastly game, 33/17, 7 blocks and only 1 TO.

- another strange thing about Duncan´s line : 23 FGAs without a FT ?

- Wade goes down with an injury

- Rockets beat the Bucks, Ariza (6/7) and Battier (6/6) combine to shoot 12 of 13 from downtown, whoa.
Landry 19/7 ...

[Neon_Chaos]

The Knicks are now working to get TMac from the Kings.

[sterlingice]

Two questions about the Kings-Rockets trade

Is there a Cot's style website for the NBA? That's a great site for baseball but with basketball contracts, it would be indispensable. The best I could find was (which is actually pretty good):
HoopsHype - NBA Salaries

I don't know much about the spare parts coming back in the Kings trade. Anyone with a scouting report on Sergio Rodriguez and Hilton Armstrong?

SI

[whomario]

Rodriguez is basically everything you want in a PG if you don´t expect him to be able to shoot, finish or defend
Very good ball handler, impressive court vision and terrific passer. Decent agility and size, but small frame hurting him defensively.
And he isn´t a good shooter (although he showed some good things this season and scored efficiently), just doesn´t have the range. And inside his frame is hurting.
Shot selection is good though, not forcing it and looking to pass first.

Very exciting player when he gets it going and can put people in great scoring positions until the other team plays off of him, definitely a player worth taking a flyer on at only 23 years.

I kinda hope he lands on the Knicks though, wouldn´t be surprised if he´d get big minutes there... With the Rockets he´d be stuck behing Brooks/Lowry (when is he coming back ?)

If he ever learns how to shoot or defend he´ll be a starter, propably a good one as well.

[sterlingice]

I still have this thought that Morey is trying really hard to showcase Brooks this year to trade him because he doesn't really fit what the Rockets want to do. That way they can ditch him, get some more parts, and get a distributing PG who can dish down low to Yao and now they can kick back out to Martin.

SI

[whomario]

Don´t think Rodriguez would fit with a lowpost-scorer either i think as he needs action at the top of the key to create passing angles, is best on the break and in early offense and a great Pick and Roll guy. He´d work nicely with Scola, work wonders for him (Scola himself was the best Pick and Roll finisher in Europe for years and would be great there with a PG that could, you know, pass the pall).
I agree that Brooks doesn´t work if your focus is on Yao and also doesn´t work next to Martin at all. He´d need a SG with playmaking ability next to him.
You won´t win much if your best passer in the starting lineup is Battier (who is a great passer but doesn´t move with the ball) or Ariza (who is to uneffective to handle the ball a lot).

Brooks would have been the ideal 20-25 MPG bench PG/scorer behind a PG that could defend 2s (and play with Brooks), will never be available for that role for the Rockets once he gets a new contract plus now he thinks of himself as a starter.

[TroyF]

Rodriguez would get a lot of burn with the Knicks. I think the Rockets now have some comedy gold. You get Battier, one of the top defensive players in the league, playing with one of the single worst defenders in basketball. (Martin) Not that I don't like the deal. Martin will improve the Rockets offense immeasurably.

Loved the Cavs trade. Didn't really think a lot of the Mavs one. It'll be interesting to see what happens the rest of the day. Rumors are Denver wants Ben Wallace. The Lakers look like they'll hold serve. (I think that's a mistake, I think their PG situation is dreadful. I know they won last year with it and they may again, but if there are options out there to improve it, I think you have to look at them)

Stoudamire likely stays a Sun. This is REALLY good news for those of us in the Thunder division. The Thunder get the Suns first round pick and it is unprotected. If Amare stays, they likely stay in the playoffs and the pick is low. If they deal Amare, they likely fall out of the playoffs and if OKC were to get lucky in the lottery. . . . I really don't want to think about that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Lakers look like they'll hold serve. (I think that's a mistake, I think their PG situation is dreadful. I know they won last year with it and they may again, but if there are options out there to improve it, I think you have to look at them).

I tend to agree that the Lakers should try to improve there if they have the opportunity. That said, the triangle doesn't really use a PG in the traditional sense. A PG as one is now defined is only needed for the Lakers to bring the ball up and make the first pass, and that be anyone competent enough to bring the ball up (Fisher first choice, with Farmar and Brown off the bench; Kobe and Odom can also bring it up if need be). None of the options are true lockdown shooters, though, and that would be the idea sort of get for the Lakers to go after. Even if it's a SG, if it's someone who is very dangerous form outside, that would improve the offense.

On defense, they still don't have anyone to guard the quick, smaller guards in the West (Paul, Roy, Williams, etc.), but they're quick enough to at least be competent in front of older/slower PGs like Billups and Nash. And the offguard position is one they're well suited for defensively, with several decent to very good options for shutting down swingman roles.

I don't tihnk the Lakers' issue is getting a PG per say, but just the fact that their talent lead may have been trumped yesterday with the Jamison deal. They can no longer count on always being the more talented team on the floor, and that might necessitate a deal.

[albionmoonlight]

I heard a Bosh for Bynum rumor a while back. That one seemed to make a lot of sense. The Lakers get Bosh, making them a superteam for the next 2-4 years. And, since Bosh is leaving anyway, Toronto gets a potential franchise center for him.

Why didn't this deal happen? I must be missing something.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I heard a Bosh for Bynum rumor a while back. That one seemed to make a lot of sense. The Lakers get Bosh, making them a superteam for the next 2-4 years. And, since Bosh is leaving anyway, Toronto gets a potential franchise center for him.

Why didn't this deal happen? I must be missing something.

I like Bosh a lot and I'm in denial that he's leaving, that's why.

[whomario]

according to yahoo´s adrian wojnarowski the Bobcats get Tyrus Thomas and give up Flip Murray, Law and a future 1st.
Likely would mean that DJ Augustin stays a Bobcat.

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/9292019102

T-Macs agent is apparently putting huge pressure on the Kings to involve the Knicks, he also represent a few Kings players ...

update :

Kings send TMac and Rodriguez to NY, Kevin Martin, Jared Jeffries and picks to HOU and Larry Hughes, Landry and Dorsey to Sac, source says

Jeffries, ugh ...

[TroyF]

ESPN reporting TMac trade done:

Knicks get Rodriguez, TMac
Rockets get Martin, Jeffries, Hill, right to swap 2011 1st rounders with Knicks, 2012 1st round pick from Knicks (unprotected)

Kings get Carl Landry, Joey Dorsey, Larry Hughes

[JeeberD]

Oh man, not Carl...

[Neon_Chaos]

So the Knicks get rid of Jeffries' contract and bring in a huge expiring contract in McGrady.

How much money are they going to be able to play with in next year's free agency? Enough to pull in two max contracts?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by TroyF

ESPN reporting TMac trade done:

Knicks get Rodriguez, TMac
Rockets get Martin, Jeffries, Hill, right to swap 2011 1st rounders with Knicks, 2012 1st round pick from Knicks (unprotected)

Kings get Carl Landry, Joey Dorsey, Larry Hughes

NY better land two stars that can coexist this summer or those picks will look really bad.

[whomario]

Knicks should be at about 21 mio in payroll this summer. 11.5 of those go to Eddy Curry
They also only have 5 players signed including Curry...

edit : scratch 2.5 for hill off the book and make that 4 players including Curry.

2 max contracts possible but then they are going to have to fill it out with minimum guys. They have to resign their rights to guys like Lee as well or they are on the books 3-times their current wage until getting a new contract ...

[DaddyTorgo]

wow. crazy day!

[Neon_Chaos]

Off of Yahoo Sports NBA twitter page:

Heat-Jazz-Wizards are apparently working on a deal.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

NY better land two stars that can coexist this summer or those picks will look really bad.

And it's going to be even funnier when those two "stars" are Johnson and Stoudamire or two others of that "paid a max contract but not a franchise player" guys. (I believe this thought was stolen from Bill Simmons trade column yesterday)

If I were an elite player, why the heck would I go to New York? If I'm LeBron or Wade? I can pick where I want to go and that organization is a disaster.

SI

[Coffee Warlord]

Charlotte Gets: Tyrus Thomas
Bulls Get: Acie Law, Flip Murray, Protected 1st

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by whomario

If Z returns, how do they get everyone playing time btw ?

There´s no PT at SF for Jamison behind Lebron, you have Shaq,Varejao,Hickson and Z up front.

I would assume they would shift Lebron to shooting guard to get Jamison his PT.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Off of Yahoo Sports NBA twitter page:

Heat-Jazz-Wizards are apparently working on a deal.

Who do the Wizards have left?

[RainMaker]

Kind of bummed that the Knicks were able to free up the cash. That's more competition for the Bulls. Some had reported here that the only reason the Bulls were interested in the T-Mac sweepstakes is because they wanted to stop the Knicks from being able to clear the Jefferies contract.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I would assume they would shift Lebron to shooting guard to get Jamison his PT.

I would assume Hickson's minutes would just dry up, which is OK. It's nice being able to get him time right now, but he's the 3rd best PF on this team.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Charlotte Gets: Tyrus Thomas
Bulls Get: Acie Law, Flip Murray, Protected 1st

Kind of iffy on the deal. Would have rather had Al Harrington from the Knicks for the rest of the season. However, if we are throwing in the towel for this season, getting the Bobcats 1st round pick is nice. Will leave us with two picks in the 10-20 range next year.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Charlotte Gets: Tyrus Thomas
Bulls Get: Acie Law, Flip Murray, Protected 1st

So, at the end of the day, Bulls traded LaMarcus Aldridge for Acie Law, Flip Murray, and a Protected 1st.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So, at the end of the day, Bulls traded LaMarcus Aldridge for Acie Law, Flip Murray, and a Protected 1st.

We also got Victor Khryapa out of the deal!

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We also got Victor Khryapa out of the deal!

And a hell of a season he's having too! For CSKA Moscow, anyhow.

[Groundhog]

Ronnie Brewer to the Griz for a draft pick? Nice move, that'll help their bench. Hasn't had the best year for the Jazz, but I think he's a nice player.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

So, at the end of the day, Bulls traded LaMarcus Aldridge for Acie Law, Flip Murray, and a Protected 1st.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

We also got Victor Khryapa out of the deal!

And the right to not give Aldridge $65 million at the height of a plummeting market.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

And a hell of a season he's having too! For CSKA Moscow, anyhow.

And he's apparently playing with Trajan Langdon, who's shooting 50% from behind the arc.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

And he's apparently playing with Trajan Langdon, who's shooting 50% from behind the arc.

Yeah, CSKA Moscow are a powerhouse. Former Jayhawk Sasha Kaun in the middle, Khryapa at the 4, Siskauskas (great Lithuanian wing) at the 3, Langdon, and Russian/American J.R. Holden at PG. Former NJ Net Zoran Planinic and former NBAer Pops Mensah-Bonsu off the bench.

Seen a few of their games over the past couple of months, watching Euro basketball at their level is very entertaining.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Logan

And the right to not give Aldridge $65 million at the height of a plummeting market.

They overpaid, yeah, but Aldridge is young and talented. There are plenty of worse players locked into contracts like his. He played well with Roy out.

[Groundhog]

Bulls get: Hakim Warrick, Joe Alexander
Bucks get: John Salmons

Warrick and Alexander are both expiring contracts (hence the trade), but Warrick is probably the best scoring PF the team has had since Elton Brand?

[Groundhog]

Rumour of another minor trade:

Bucks get: Royal Ivey, Primoz Brezec, 2nd rounder
76ers get: Jodie Meeks, Francisco Elson

I think Jodie Meeks is one to watch. He'll get minutes in Philadelphia and might prove a steal. Just no minutes for him in Milwaukee.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Lakers look like they'll hold serve. (I think that's a mistake, I think their PG situation is dreadful. I know they won last year with it and they may again, but if there are options out there to improve it, I think you have to look at them)

They wanted Kirk H, but the Bulls didnt want either Sasha or Walton so the Lakers couldnt afford it

[TroyF]

As I see it:

Winners at trade deadline:

1) Cavs. They got better, Pretty simple equation really: The Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Nuggets, etc did not get better.

2) Knicks, Bulls, Heat, Clippers - All of them have cap space for the monumental FA class. They may not strike it rich, but they all gave themselves a chance.

3) Blazers - I don't like Camby at all, but they needed a rebounder and they got one.

4) Anyone who doesn't want to see the Thunder go on a title spree. They may still go on that title spree, but if the Suns had dealt Amare and faded and the Thunder had the lottery balls bounce their way, they'd be ridiculously scary to deal with.

5) TMac. He gets to go play for the next 20+ games and show if he has anything left. Better than sitting out all year and getting nothing on the open market.

6) Rockets. I don't like how they lost Landry, but Martin is a big upgrade for them. They also got a kid who might be a fit with a change of scenery and assets in the Knicks picks they can use down the road.

LOSERS

1) Suns. A week ao they could have gotten Iggy in a deal for Amare. 3 days ago they could have gotten salary relief. Now they have him for another first or second round playoff exit and if he gets hurt, he'll exercise his 17 million dollar option for next year. Ugly. Really, really ugly.

2)) Pacers/Sixers - You have two teams who are mediocre and were too scared to take any type of risk in the trade market. Look boys, you need to rebuild and until you realize that, you are going to be at the bottom of the conference. Stupid.

3) Clippers fans. Sorry Chief, but they've given you the one dangerous thing for any damaged fan. . . hope. As a Clippers fan, I'd think they have a shot at Bron. A young nucleus, an upcoming lottery pick, Blake coming in next year. . . yeah, Bron will probably sign there, then him and Blake will go up for a rebound in a preseason game and blow their achilles. Hope is a dangerous thing.

[bulletsponge]

im sad the rockets lost Landry, he was one of the few NBAers i like. but if the Knicks live up to their end, it might be a lottery pick

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

im sad the rockets lost Landry, he was one of the few NBAers i like. but if the Knicks live up to their end, it might be a lottery pick

I have yet to read anyone who dislikes this trade on the whole which is what really makes me happy. My favorite might be Bill Simmons on twitter:
"Serious question for @dmorey - were you wearing a black ski mask and holding a gun when you made that Knicks trade? "

SI

[Groundhog]

Scores tied, 43 seconds left to go in Cavs-Nuggs, and LeBron is having a fairly OK game with 37-12-15.

[Groundhog]

dola

No Jamison.

[k0ruptr]

great game

[Groundhog]

I'm thinking for this next shot, let's have someone who ISN'T LeBron try their hand at a 3?