NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

http://www.mercurynews.com/warriors/ci_13008151

Rashard Lewis suspended for elevated testosterone levels. Here we go!

[stevew]

That's bitchass.

[Big Fo]

Meh, 10 games, no big deal. Orlando will run away with their division regardless. It would take a lot of steroids to turn Lewis into a physically imposing player

[DaddyTorgo]

Celtics resign Glen "Big Baby" Davis - 2 years, $6.3 mil.

Great deal for them, allows them to rest Garnett even more and having Sheed+Big Baby is a clear upgrade over just having Sheed replacing Big Baby.

They also picked up Shelden Williams for the frontcourt, but he's been a bit of a dissapointment in the NBA I guess.

[MrBug708]

Kleiza decided that the thug life wasnt for him and heads back to Europe

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Celtics resign Glen "Big Baby" Davis - 2 years, $6.3 mil.

Great deal for them, allows them to rest Garnett even more and having Sheed+Big Baby is a clear upgrade over just having Sheed replacing Big Baby.

They also picked up Shelden Williams for the frontcourt, but he's been a bit of a dissapointment in the NBA I guess.

Yup, I will be placing my order in the fall for the NBA season pass to watch the Celtics for sure now. Screw the NFL season ticket

[Groundhog]

Cavs get Leon Powe for a 2 year/1.7m deal, 2nd year is team option. Powe won't be ready to return to the court until about Feb, but I like this move. Until Big Baby stepped it up in the playoffs, Powe was the more impressive of the two IMO. If he can bounce back from his injury he'll be some valuable depth. If not, well, you don't bring him back.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Cavs get Leon Powe for a 2 year/1.7m deal, 2nd year is team option. Powe won't be ready to return to the court until about Feb, but I like this move. Until Big Baby stepped it up in the playoffs, Powe was the more impressive of the two IMO. If he can bounce back from his injury he'll be some valuable depth. If not, well, you don't bring him back.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Cavs get Leon Powe for a 2 year/1.7m deal, 2nd year is team option. Powe won't be ready to return to the court until about Feb, but I like this move. Until Big Baby stepped it up in the playoffs, Powe was the more impressive of the two IMO. If he can bounce back from his injury he'll be some valuable depth. If not, well, you don't bring him back.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Damn now that is a shocker I was hoping to get Powe back after getting a year or two out Wallace. I don't see it as being a big dealThe guy will have been out of basketball shape and by the time he is in shape it will be playoffs. So this is in all purposes 1.7 for one season 2010-11. And if he ever recovers which some are saying his injury was quite severe.

[RainMaker]

Minnesota Timberwolves say Ricky Rubio backed out of coming to Minnesota - ESPN

Everyone has been shitting on David Kahn but I actually don't think this is bad for the T-Wolves at all. I mean if you're a fan of the team, you definitely want to see the kid play right now, but long term for the team, I think this works out well.

You get two years to see if Johnny Flynn can be your PG. If he can, you have great trade bait with Rubio. You could make the case that Rubio can improve his trade value overseas. He gains no NBA service time and essentially becomes a more polished 21 year old who is likely ready to step in and start for a team. So if Flynn works out, there is a chance that Rubio can be swapped for a star player or top 3 pick in a stronger draft.

I think that's the best case scenario for Minnesota. Not sure if Rubio will ever fit in with a small market like Minnesota. I also think having a 19 year old Rubio does little for the T-Wolves besides sell some more tickets.

I still don't understand Rubio. He is wasting two years of NBA service time. If he truly hates Minnesota, his best bet is to just get his rookie contract over with and be able to pick his own destiny. With his look, he'd definitely be able to bring in some big endorsement deals too.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol - what a fustercluck. waste of a pick (either #5 or #6, take your pick) that they could use to be better NOW

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Minnesota Timberwolves say Ricky Rubio backed out of coming to Minnesota - ESPN

Everyone has been shitting on David Kahn but I actually don't think this is bad for the T-Wolves at all. I mean if you're a fan of the team, you definitely want to see the kid play right now, but long term for the team, I think this works out well.

You get two years to see if Johnny Flynn can be your PG. If he can, you have great trade bait with Rubio. You could make the case that Rubio can improve his trade value overseas. He gains no NBA service time and essentially becomes a more polished 21 year old who is likely ready to step in and start for a team. So if Flynn works out, there is a chance that Rubio can be swapped for a star player or top 3 pick in a stronger draft.

I think that's the best case scenario for Minnesota. Not sure if Rubio will ever fit in with a small market like Minnesota. I also think having a 19 year old Rubio does little for the T-Wolves besides sell some more tickets.

I still don't understand Rubio. He is wasting two years of NBA service time. If he truly hates Minnesota, his best bet is to just get his rookie contract over with and be able to pick his own destiny. With his look, he'd definitely be able to bring in some big endorsement deals too.

top 3 pick? no way

star player - very very doubtful

because he'll be unproven in the NBA still and everyone will know that they have Minnesota over a rock

[Big Fo]

That's unfortunate, I enjoyed watching Rubio in the Olympics last summer and wanted to see him in the NBA asap.

The NBA should raise the amount of money that its teams can pay towards a buyout (although I know in this case it might not have helped if Rubio really wanted to play for Barca and improve his game before coming over).

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

lol - what a fustercluck. waste of a pick (either #5 or #6, take your pick) that they could use to be better NOW

Think of it this way. They werent going anyway with Rubio this year anyway so they can just get a better lottery pick and have much more talent when he plays in 2 years. Its really not a bad situation as both Pgs will get to develop.

[stevew]

His buyout was going to virtually eat up all the salary he'd make over his first 3 years in the league. Assuming he was a Max salary player, though, staying in Europe was a bad move. However, maybe he talked to Raul Lopez.

Another Spanish PG who paid a huge buyout(2m), stayed in the NBA for 4 seasons, and virtually made no money by doing so

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

His buyout was going to virtually eat up all the salary he'd make over his first 3 years in the league. Assuming he was a Max salary player, though, staying in Europe was a bad move. However, maybe he talked to Raul Lopez.

Another Spanish PG who paid a huge buyout(2m), stayed in the NBA for 4 seasons, and virtually made no money by doing so

His shoe deal alone would cover his buyout. And it's not about making huge dollars right now, it's being able to finish up the rookie contract sooner and signing a bigger one at a younger age.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I still don't understand Rubio. He is wasting two years of NBA service time. If he truly hates Minnesota, his best bet is to just get his rookie contract over with and be able to pick his own destiny. With his look, he'd definitely be able to bring in some big endorsement deals too.

Nah, he'll actually be more mature and ready for the NBA when he does come over, he saves a ton of cash and may end up forcing a trade to a big market. Outside of starting his FA clock a little early (he'll still only be 20-21 when he comes over), I don't see any downside to this.

[stevew]

I think the trade forcing thing is a foregone conclusion.

I'm curious, cause if he stops playing professional basketball, I think he becomes a free agent in one year. At that point, I dunno if he'd be bound by any kind of rookie salary cap.
09-10 Europe
10-11 Europe
-Force trade-
Or if that doesn't happen
sit out 11-12, play with the olympic team
12-13 Sign some big contract?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

Nah, he'll actually be more mature and ready for the NBA when he does come over, he saves a ton of cash and may end up forcing a trade to a big market. Outside of starting his FA clock a little early (he'll still only be 20-21 when he comes over), I don't see any downside to this.

The money now is nothing. Losing a couple million is squat. Being able to sign a $10+ million dollar a year deal 2 years sooner is much more important. Not to mention American endorsement deals which he is perfect for.

[Groundhog]

Gives Minnesota a two-year window to evaluate Flynn with. If he's a solid NBA starter, trade Rubio. If the draft in 2011 or 12 is light on PGs, they could get themselves a high selection.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

top 3 pick? no way

star player - very very doubtful

because he'll be unproven in the NBA still and everyone will know that they have Minnesota over a rock

Lot of top NBA guys think otherwise. If you saw him in the Olympics, he handled his own as 17 year old against the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Not many guys I can think of who can do that.

He isn't built like the quick guys but he's a pass first PG who has better instincts right now than most NBA point guards. I think the upside is someone like a Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. When you throw in the international aspect and the marketing opportunities that brings for the right team, he becomes a valuable commodity.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Lot of top NBA guys think otherwise. If you saw him in the Olympics, he handled his own as 17 year old against the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Not many guys I can think of who can do that.

For much the same reason I was surprised Patty Mills fell so low in the draft. He made Chris Paul and Deron Williams look slow. I think he could be a giant steal when his injury heals. His pace of play seems perfect for the NBA.

He isn't built like the quick guys but he's a pass first PG who has better instincts right now than most NBA point guards. I think the upside is someone like a Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. When you throw in the international aspect and the marketing opportunities that brings for the right team, he becomes a valuable commodity.

I don't think Rubio is a sure thing, but I think his instincts and his experience at such a young age put his ceiling very, very high.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

For much the same reason I was surprised Patty Mills fell so low in the draft. He made Chris Paul and Deron Williams look slow. I think he could be a giant steal when his injury heals. His pace of play seems perfect for the NBA.

I think Mills has skills and experience, but the big different in the two is physical size. Rubio has 4 inches on Mills and a huge wingspan. Doesn't come into play as much in college but Mills will have a lot more trouble scoring in the NBA. Rubio on the other hand is a passing oriented player that doesn't need to get shots off.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think the trade forcing thing is a foregone conclusion.

I'm curious, cause if he stops playing professional basketball, I think he becomes a free agent in one year. At that point, I dunno if he'd be bound by any kind of rookie salary cap.
09-10 Europe
10-11 Europe
-Force trade-
Or if that doesn't happen
sit out 11-12, play with the olympic team
12-13 Sign some big contract?

Good question.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by stevew

-Force trade-
Or if that doesn't happen
sit out 11-12, play with the olympic team
12-13 Sign some big contract?

you can´t sit out a year and play with "the olympic team" in a country like spain. If you don´t play 20 minutes a game you have no shot at being invited. Not mentioning the fact that no national team coach would ever think of inviting a player who screwed his club (Barcelona, it is a 6 year deal afterall) over like that. He´d also face huge legal ramifications as he´d be forfeiting a binding contract. The buyout after 2 years is under the condition he goes to the NBA and signs there, doesn´t go into effect if he just wants to quit Barcelona. Most likely scenario : he´d have to pay the remaining 4 years of salary + X (earning that barcelona looses and would claim in a lawsuit and X wouldn´t be small), he´d likely be banned from all Fiba competitions and the NBA wouldn´t want to sign him then either as this would put a halt on Stern´s attempts at building up the league in Europe with a pissed of Jurisdiction of european basketball. There is really noway Rubio will sit out a year of basketball, this is one of those "theoretical ideas" that will never happen i´m afraid.

Theoretically the rule exists, but in practice ...

Rubio has worked on his shot and offensive game btw, looks much improved with the spanish national team, although it´s easier than with the average team as they are playing so well together and have so many weapons compared to the competition they are facing. Even without Pau Gasol (injured) they are the clear-cut favourite for the european championship title this summer, basically won every exhibition game by 20 points even against teams like Slovenia and Lithuania who are medal contenders.
But anyway, his shooting mechanics have really improved since the season ended


As for the whole contract situation : He (and his agent) could have definitely handled the whole thing better, but afterall this still is a 18 year old kid and as far as i am concerned it is only human to be indecicive and maybe make a mistake or two along the way at that age. Although i think the mistake was declaring for the draft in the first place, which was clearly supported by his agent in an attempt to pressure Joventud into lowering the buyout with the anticipated public coverage of the situation.

He got cold feet but you also have to see that there is huge pressure on him from local public, that he´s also making a responsible decicion. This is like taking another 2 years of training-ship before actually starting a job at the most demanding job in town.
Now he has got a lot of security should sth go wrong in a binding 6 year contract and salary, but also much more flexibility with only a 1 mio Euro buyout in 2 years when he is still only 20/21 years old.
Plus at Barcelona as of now he is the only real PG, they are making a huge financial comittment to him (4 mio buyout, about 2,5 mio payment pre-taxes for the first 2 years) while still allowing him to leave after 2 years with a low buyout. He will have top flight facilities and training, will most likely play in the Euroleague both years and go far into the competition facing pressure situations at the highest level in Europe. He also stays in his home-area with Badalona being just about 10 minutes outside of bacelona.

You have to admit that this makes a ton of sense for the kid, even if you´d wanted him to make the jump now.

[Icy]

Well written whomario, you nailed it imho.

Another huge factor was his family, he i really tied to her grandma that he visits daily. Also his parents might be too overprotective and want him close to them, instead of going to another country at only 18.

Of course with that on mind, he shouldn't have declared for the draft this year, but i guess he also wanted to get out of DKV where he was paid like a kid (under $100k) when he was the star of the team and should be getting star like salary.

I must admit i'm really disappointed as is most of the people in Spain, even the press. Between Fran Vazquez and Rubio, and probably adding Navarro to the mix, they are closing a lot of doors to future Spanish players who might be seen like like guys who get homesick really soon. At first Ricky was thought as the poor kid who wanted to pursue a dream while DKV was the evil not letting him fly, but now Rubio is seen as the evil for going to the same city team rival just to earn more money instead of going to the NBA.

On the defense of European players, i must say that it must be hard to leave your country where you are a top star, to go to a new league where you are just another rookie and get paid way less than what you were earning in your country because the rookie salary rules. That is why i'm really proud of players like the Gasol brothers and Rudy Fernandez, who are fighting to become great players in the best league of the world (and Pau aready earned it) even if it starts costing them money from their pockets in the first two years.

[stevew]

I didn't realize he had a 6 year deal in Europe. So yeah, not sitting out. Anyways, the latest Sheridan article up on ESPN seems to state some interesting points.

To summarize.

If Rubio waits until Summer 2012 to enter the NBA, he is no longer bound by the rookie salary scale. The T-Pups would retain his NBA rights in that scenerio (playing 3 years in Europe instead of two).

But Rubio would have significant power in that scenerio. If he's a stud at that point, say the best player in the world not in the NBA, he can demand a very large salary. Up to the Maximum NBA salary(roughly 15m). If the Wolves aren't willing to meet his demands, it seems very likely he'd be able to force a trade at that point.

Just some interesting things spelled out that I wasn't sure about.

[RainMaker]

I still don't see how that gives Rubio any leverage. Minnesota still has the rights to him and ultimately decide his fate. If his offers are too outrageous, they can simply tell him to stay in Europe and not play in the best league in the world.

Not to mention that if he just came to the NBA and played now, he's be pretty close to being a restricted or unrestricted free agent and have not only more options, but a chance to make big bucks too. If he's really that good, service time should be his top priority.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I still don't see how that gives Rubio any leverage. Minnesota still has the rights to him and ultimately decide his fate. If his offers are too outrageous, they can simply tell him to stay in Europe and not play in the best league in the world.

"Sorry Ricky, you'll have to stay over in Spain and play in one of the strongest leagues in the world and earn millions of dollars."

I'm sure the majority of guys playing top level ball in Europe would love to play in the NBA, but it's not the same draw card that it once was. Players earn very good money to play in very good leagues all over Europe.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

"Sorry Ricky, you'll have to stay over in Spain and play in one of the strongest leagues in the world and earn millions of dollars."

I'm sure the majority of guys playing top level ball in Europe would love to play in the NBA, but it's not the same draw card that it once was. Players earn very good money to play in very good leagues all over Europe.

Ricky Rubio can't make as much money in Spain. He can't earn the name recognition or the overall stature that he would in the NBA. It is a nice league he can play in, but lets not kid ourselves. It's not on the same planet as the NBA.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ricky Rubio can't make as much money in Spain. He can't earn the name recognition or the overall stature that he would in the NBA. It is a nice league he can play in, but lets not kid ourselves. It's not on the same planet as the NBA.

No question, like I said, I'm sure he dreams to play in the NBA. But he'll still be earning very good money in Spain and I'm sure if Minnesota wanted to play hardball with him there would be worst positions for him to be in than playing pro ball in Spain and earning a fortune, by normal standards.

[Arles]

As a first round pick, Rubio would make $15 million between now and 2013 (with team options for years 3 and 4). Then, he would get a $5-6 mil qualifying offer in 2013/14.

So, here are his options:

1. Sign the $15 mil deal and play for Minnesota from now until 2013 - at which point he would be the property of the T-Wolves going into his qualifying offer in 2013/2014. After the buyout (minus the 500K the T-Wolves paid), he would net out $7.5 million for the first 4 seasons (15-8 mil buyout + 500K from Minny) and be exclusive property of the Wolves going into the 2013 offseason.

2. Sign a deal with Europe ($2-3 mil per season) for 3 seasons, make $6-9 million and then pay a $1 million buyout (Minny would pay half). At that point, he would be owned by Minnesota going into the 2012 offseason. However, he would not be part of the rookie salary cap and could sign a deal starting in the $8-10 million range (provided the T-Wolves have cap space) or he could be traded.

So, he could make $7.5 million for 4 seasons, then be owned by Minnesota with the ability to sign a $8-10+ mil deal. Or, he could make up to $9 million in Europe for 3 seasons, then be owned by Minnesota with the ability to sign a $8-10+ mil deal. For some reason, everyone is saying Rubio is stupid for taking scenario 2. I must be missing something...

[chadritt]

So basically hes making close to the same amount of money, if not more, but he gets to be rich and famous in Spain as opposed to Minnesota?

[Arles]

And he gets to have a chance at a max contract one season before if he signed this year in the NBA.

[stevew]

Hmm, i'm thinking Spanish women>>>>>minnesota chicks

but i might need pix plz k thx

[RainMaker]

First, the buyout number was 5.3 million paid by Barcelona and not the $8 million you listed. Rubio's agent had also setup a lot of local deals with companies in Minnesota that would have helped foot the bill for the buyout.

When he can come back in 2012, he is only negotiating with one team, and that one team has a lot of restricitons on where they can use money from. Rubio has to hedge his bets that Minnesota will save enough money under the cap to pay him what he wants. Lets say the T-Wolves get better with Jefferson, Love, and Flynn. Do they really pray that Rubio will want to come over in 2012 or do they simply do what they need to do to win now and not worry about the cap space?

The ultimate goal is to reach unrestricted free agent status. There you have 30 teams able to negotiate max contracts with you. It's where you make your big money in the NBA. It's how you get the ultimate control over where you end up playing.

This isn't about a buyout and it's not about money per say. Rubio would have made much more in the NBA by massive endorsement deals. He is very photogenic and is an international name. What do you think that shoe deal is worth to a company wanting to tap into Europe more? And what is it worth to have your face on TV across the globe every other night? The NBA is global, his little Spanish league is crap. Name recognition and marketability are two huge factors in that decision.

Which brings us to the most important point. It makes Rubio look weak. Clearly by his comments the kid isn't mentally tough enough to play in the NBA. There are certain players who have that drive to play with the best and be the best. He doesn't have it. He wants the safe route, the one that has less risk. He doesn't want to push his abilities and talents on the grandest stage.

So when he does decide that playing in Spain means shit in the sporting world, what's his reputation going to be like here? Will teams be jumping over themselves to trade for a guy who really doesn't seem like he cares much about competing? Do Minnesota fans embrace a guy who essentially snubbed them for years?

It's a dumb move. This isn't about an extra million here or there. It's about being able to make hundreds of millions in a career and becoming a global icon. If Rubio is worried about an extra million here or there versus competing with the elite in his profession, he doesn't have the mental toughness to be succesful in this league.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

And he gets to have a chance at a max contract one season before if he signed this year in the NBA.

There are a lot of restrictions on where Minnesota can get and use the money for that. It's extremely unlikely that he would be able to get a max contract from Minnesota. Especially considering he wouldn't have played a minute of NBA time.

You also have to factor in the CBA is up in 2011. We have no idea what rules will be in place for when he comes back. The rules on his status may completely change by then. Owners are going to get a lot of concessions in this round of negotiations and I wouldn't be surprised to see his options becoming much worse.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

First, the buyout number was 5.3 million paid by Barcelona and not the $8 million you listed. Rubio's agent had also setup a lot of local deals with companies in Minnesota that would have helped foot the bill for the buyout.

It was $8.11 million, but Joventut accepted $5.3 million from FC Barcelona once the NBA was no longer an option. There's no guarantee they would have agreed to the discount with a rich NBA team. But, it really doesn't matter, he would still be making a max of $9 mil over 4 years - which is how much he may make in Spain for the next 3 years.

When he can come back in 2012, he is only negotiating with one team

If he signed a rookie deal with Minny, he would be negotiating with only one team in 2013 once he got the qualifying offer.

and that one team has a lot of restricitons on where they can use money from. Rubio has to hedge his bets that Minnesota will save enough money under the cap to pay him what he wants. Lets say the T-Wolves get better with Jefferson, Love, and Flynn. Do they really pray that Rubio will want to come over in 2012 or do they simply do what they need to do to win now and not worry about the cap space?

They have all kinds of options. They can trade him, they can use cap space to sign him, or they can use all $6+ million of the mid level to sign him. Worst case, he will get a 5-year deal starting at the full MLE ($6 mil) in 2012 - with an opt out after 3 seasons. There's no guarantee he gets more than that in 2013 after his initial deal ended. Plus, he gets it one season earlier.

The ultimate goal is to reach unrestricted free agent status. There you have 30 teams able to negotiate max contracts with you. It's where you make your big money in the NBA. It's how you get the ultimate control over where you end up playing.

Here's the two likely scenarios:

1. He signs a 4-year deal with the T-Wolves. In the 2013 offseason, he gets a 5-year deal as an exclusive FA with Minny starting in the $6-8 million range with an opt out 3 years in. He's unrestricted in 2018 at the earliest.

2. He plays in spain for 3 years. In the 2012 offseason, he gets a 5-year deal as an exclusive FA with Minny (or another team via trade) starting in the $6-8 million range with an opt out 3 years in. He's unrestricted in 2017.

This isn't about a buyout and it's not about money per say. Rubio would have made much more in the NBA by massive endorsement deals. He is very photogenic and is an international name. What do you think that shoe deal is worth to a company wanting to tap into Europe more? And what is it worth to have your face on TV across the globe every other night? The NBA is global, his little Spanish league is crap. Name recognition and marketability are two huge factors in that decision.

If he plays well. If he stinks as an 18-year old (as he probably would), his image takes a major hit. If he instead plays well in Spain for 2-3 years and begins as a 21-year old, there's a better chance he has initial success and gets more endorsements and that big contract.

Which brings us to the most important point. It makes Rubio look weak. Clearly by his comments the kid isn't mentally tough enough to play in the NBA. There are certain players who have that drive to play with the best and be the best. He doesn't have it. He wants the safe route, the one that has less risk. He doesn't want to push his abilities and talents on the grandest stage.

I don't know that an 18-year old kid deciding to wait until he's 21 to join the NBA makes him look weak. Plus, in 2 years, no one will care if he's playing well. Everyone will be salivating over him coming to the NBA.

So when he does decide that playing in Spain means shit in the sporting world, what's his reputation going to be like here? Will teams be jumping over themselves to trade for a guy who really doesn't seem like he cares much about competing? Do Minnesota fans embrace a guy who essentially snubbed them for years?

First, he probably won't play in Minnesota - so I doubt he cares about their fans. Second, this is a 2-3 year "college" stint for Rubio. He's trying to get to the point where he can be a better player from the get go. And, if he's doing decent in Spain (as he should be), he will have plenty of teams fawning over him to play in the NBA. Heck, teams wanted to pay him $15 million over 4 years (even with the buyout scare) as an 18-year old. Imagine the interest when he's 21 with a tiny buyout.

It's a dumb move. This isn't about an extra million here or there. It's about being able to make hundreds of millions in a career and becoming a global icon. If Rubio is worried about an extra million here or there versus competing with the elite in his profession, he doesn't have the mental toughness to be succesful in this league.

No, Euros face a huge mountain if they suck off the bat. Look at Sergio Rodriguez. He came over in 2006 from Spain with a ton of hoopla as a 19-year old. He's averaged 3.7, 2.5 and 4.5 points and is now entering his FA season as the 3rd string PG in Sacramento behind Tyreke Evans and Beno Udrih. You don't think he might be rethinking coming over early?

it's doubtful Rubio can handle the 82-game pounding as a skinny 18-year old. So, even if he found a way to stay healthy (doubtful), he would have brutal stats the first couple seasons and have many calling him a bust. Better to mature physically and get a stronger basketball game before coming here and
forming initial impressions. The money will be there at 21, but it may not be there if he comes in at 18 and craps the bed.

[whomario]

so making a safe decicion for youself and you family is a sign of mental weaknes nowadays ? Tell you what, a NBA GM, Coach or Scout would tell you the exact opposite.

And for that matter : Why do you assume that for a spanish player the spanish basketball league and the Euroleague are that much lower on the list of priorities than the NBA ?
All the people he knows likely value a Euroleague title as high or higher than an NBA title.

It´s tough to bring that point across to americans since they basically have no team sport that is a big deal there but a bigger deal in Europe. Maybe soccer, but there the difference in quality and structure and media exposure is more like the difference between the like the bulgarian basketball league and the NBA rather than ACB/NBA ...
But let me assure you that the ACB is a bigger deal than the NBA in spain, that the Euroleague gets more TV time than the NBA and more people follow both competitions than follow the NBA. Even in germany the german league finals had twice as many viewers than the NBA finals, despite being not nearly as popular of good as the ACB in spain.
Oh, the NBA is popular, but it is not as popular as the respective domestic leagues and the Euroleague.
And it´s global ? Great, but why would you have to care about that ? He´s not aiming to be a star and neither are his parents. For christs´s sake, he didn´t give any interviews before his 18th birthday and even now very rarely does.


Like said : Declaring was the mistake, not now staying over. I´m convinced that his agent persuaded to declare in the end in hopes of pressuring Joventud, now Rubio is making a smart decicion on his part. I would have love to see him as soon as possible in the NBA as well, but there´s a lot of reason behind him not going right now.



to clarify sth btw : That low buyout is only in place once : for the summer of 2011. After that it would be up to Barcelona again whether they´d let him go or not.
He´s either coming in 2011 or the whole whealing and dealing starts off again.

[Chief Rum]

I love these discussions for a laugh, purely because it gets the European posters in a tizzy, and as a board, we're usually good for one or two "arrogant Americans" to act high and mighty, too. What's funniest is that I doubt either side has any idea whatsoever what the reality is, be it NBA in America for Europeans or ABC or whatever in Europe for Americans.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by whomario

so making a safe decicion for youself and you family is a sign of mental weaknes nowadays ? Tell you what, a NBA GM, Coach or Scout would tell you the exact opposite.

And for that matter : Why do you assume that for a spanish player the spanish basketball league and the Euroleague are that much lower on the list of priorities than the NBA ?
All the people he knows likely value a Euroleague title as high or higher than an NBA title.

It´s tough to bring that point across to americans since they basically have no team sport that is a big deal there but a bigger deal in Europe. Maybe soccer, but there the difference in quality and structure and media exposure is more like the difference between the like the bulgarian basketball league and the NBA rather than ACB/NBA ...
But let me assure you that the ACB is a bigger deal than the NBA in spain, that the Euroleague gets more TV time than the NBA and more people follow both competitions than follow the NBA. Even in germany the german league finals had twice as many viewers than the NBA finals, despite being not nearly as popular of good as the ACB in spain.
Oh, the NBA is popular, but it is not as popular as the respective domestic leagues and the Euroleague.
And it´s global ? Great, but why would you have to care about that ? He´s not aiming to be a star and neither are his parents. For christs´s sake, he didn´t give any interviews before his 18th birthday and even now very rarely does.


Like said : Declaring was the mistake, not now staying over. I´m convinced that his agent persuaded to declare in the end in hopes of pressuring Joventud, now Rubio is making a smart decicion on his part. I would have love to see him as soon as possible in the NBA as well, but there´s a lot of reason behind him not going right now.



to clarify sth btw : That low buyout is only in place once : for the summer of 2011. After that it would be up to Barcelona again whether they´d let him go or not.
He´s either coming in 2011 or the whole whealing and dealing starts off again.

he'd be better off just getting over here. i think American teams will be turned off by the whole uncertainty

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by whomario

so making a safe decicion for youself and you family is a sign of mental weaknes nowadays ? Tell you what, a NBA GM, Coach or Scout would tell you the exact opposite.

And for that matter : Why do you assume that for a spanish player the spanish basketball league and the Euroleague are that much lower on the list of priorities than the NBA ?
All the people he knows likely value a Euroleague title as high or higher than an NBA title.

It´s tough to bring that point across to americans since they basically have no team sport that is a big deal there but a bigger deal in Europe. Maybe soccer, but there the difference in quality and structure and media exposure is more like the difference between the like the bulgarian basketball league and the NBA rather than ACB/NBA ...
But let me assure you that the ACB is a bigger deal than the NBA in spain, that the Euroleague gets more TV time than the NBA and more people follow both competitions than follow the NBA. Even in germany the german league finals had twice as many viewers than the NBA finals, despite being not nearly as popular of good as the ACB in spain.
Oh, the NBA is popular, but it is not as popular as the respective domestic leagues and the Euroleague.
And it´s global ? Great, but why would you have to care about that ? He´s not aiming to be a star and neither are his parents. For christs´s sake, he didn´t give any interviews before his 18th birthday and even now very rarely does.

Like said : Declaring was the mistake, not now staying over. I´m convinced that his agent persuaded to declare in the end in hopes of pressuring Joventud, now Rubio is making a smart decicion on his part. I would have love to see him as soon as possible in the NBA as well, but there´s a lot of reason behind him not going right now.

to clarify sth btw : That low buyout is only in place once : for the summer of 2011. After that it would be up to Barcelona again whether they´d let him go or not.
He´s either coming in 2011 or the whole whealing and dealing starts off again.

It unfortunately is a sign of weakness. Great athletes and competitors choose to match themselves up with the elite. Tiger Woods didn't "tune" his game up on the Canadian Tour for a few years. Kobe, Lebron, and Jordan wouldn't be caught dead playing in an inferior basketball league. To be a true superstar it takes a killer instinct. Guys like Lebron, Kobe, and Jordan have it. They love competition and thrive on being pushed.

That doesn't make Rubio a bad guy at all. It's honorable to think of your family. It's also not bad to do what you want. But from an NBA owner's perspective, it makes him look weak. Someone who isn't willing to challenge himself against the best in the world. That to me shows a mental makeup that I don't think helps you win Championships or lead good teams.

It's not personal, but do you want the 19 year old kid who wants to go head-to-head with Chris Paul or the one who wants to spend night in and night out against inferior opponents in a league no one gives a shit about in the world.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I love these discussions for a laugh, purely because it gets the European posters in a tizzy, and as a board, we're usually good for one or two "arrogant Americans" to act high and mighty, too. What's funniest is that I doubt either side has any idea whatsoever what the reality is, be it NBA in America for Europeans or ABC or whatever in Europe for Americans.

As an equivelent for Europeans, I would say this would be akin to a young soccer player who many believe will be a top player in the world. He has an offer to play in the Premier League and instead turns it down to play for an MLS team.

[DaddyTorgo]

your first post woulda been better without the euro-bashing RainMaker

[whomario]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As an equivelent for Europeans, I would say this would be akin to a young soccer player who many believe will be a top player in the world. He has an offer to play in the Premier League and instead turns it down to play for an MLS team.

that is simply not accurate.

NBA > ACB
Premier League >>>>>>>> MLS

I´m sorry, but this is now really not a valid cross-comparison. Not trying to bash the MLS here, but just compare the structure and what type of players make up the majority of the Rosters.
It is not nearly as desirable for a good Euro to go to the NBA than an offer from any european club of Italy, spain, england, germany and half a dozen other countries would be for any MLS player.

in a league no one gives a shit about in the US.

fixed it for you. In Europe, which is where propably 10 of the best 15 national teams worldwide come from and where an equal percentage of basketball player/fans are outside the US, the Euroleague is more popular and more widely covered than the NBA.

What do NBA Fans in China matte to an european player ?

You are just wrong about the status of the NBA outside of the US. In every basketball country in Europe the domestic league is much more important than the NBA.

And by your logic ever player staying an extra year or two in College chickened away from Competition ? Tim Duncan not a competitor anymore ?

It might very well be argued that declaring for the draft and then not coming is a mistake and not "honourable" but not going at 18 sure isn´t a problem or flaw of any kind. And as said i am convinced that him declaring was more an agent´s move.

[Samdari]

I cannot wait until the regular season begins, so that there is real basketball to talk about, and Ricky Rubio fades back into Eurobscurity, to be nothing in the basketball consciousness but a footnote to the bronze medal game at the Olympics every four years. "Hey fans, remember when this guy was thought to be a budding NBA superstar? What were we thinking then?"

[Gary Gorski]

I think this is a big risk for Rubio - he could have come here, adjusted to the NBA and America at 18/19 and Minnesota would have given him the additional 2 years on the rookie contract no matter what so he would have had 4 years to prove himself worthy of playing in the NBA. He would have had endorsement deals from day one and been as much celebrity (if not moreso) than basketball star.

Instead he's going to play against lesser competition and try to come over here in 2012 - he will still be an unproven talent at that point on a NBA level. Look at guys like Fernandez, Rodriguez, Jaskevicious (sp?)...even if Rubio plays very well in Spain how do you open the checkbook that much on essentially an unknown quantity?

Even if the Wolves don't have cap money saved (which they would be enormously foolish to do at this point after the way this played out) do you really want to fork out Trevor Ariza like money to a guy who's never played a minute in the league?

I also think this saga is going to hurt the draft prospects of future players in that situation. Right now, Minnesota looks pretty bad in giving up two solid players (Foye and Miller) for nothing and Minnesota really is looking at not a ton of upside either. If he plays lousy in Spain he's worthless. If he plays just ok he probably still has no trade value. Rubio basically has to light it up in Spain and an NBA team is going to need some kind of guarantee that he's coming before they'll deal for him. Kahn's trying to save face but the argument that Rubio's still an "asset" is looking pretty bad at this point because right now, that asset isn't worth a whole lot to the franchise.

If it all works out (Rubio plays great for 3 years, comes here and gets a big deal and leads Minnesota to the playoffs for a decade) then I guess its a win but right now the only winner looks like Rubio in that he's getting paid and has the T-Wolves by the balls. Rubio doesn't need to come to the NBA ever - as long as he plays at a high level he can make a very nice living in a good basketball league in Spain. Minnesota is the one that needs Rubio to come here.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by whomario

that is simply not accurate.

NBA > ACB
Premier League >>>>>>>> MLS

I´m sorry, but this is now really not a valid cross-comparison. Not trying to bash the MLS here, but just compare the structure and what type of players make up the majority of the Rosters.
It is not nearly as desirable for a good Euro to go to the NBA than an offer from any european club of Italy, spain, england, germany and half a dozen other countries would be for any MLS player.


fixed it for you. In Europe, which is where propably 10 of the best 15 national teams worldwide come from and where an equal percentage of basketball player/fans are outside the US, the Euroleague is more popular and more widely covered than the NBA.

What do NBA Fans in China matte to an european player ?

You are just wrong about the status of the NBA outside of the US. In every basketball country in Europe the domestic league is much more important than the NBA.

And by your logic ever player staying an extra year or two in College chickened away from Competition ? Tim Duncan not a competitor anymore ?

It might very well be argued that declaring for the draft and then not coming is a mistake and not "honourable" but not going at 18 sure isn´t a problem or flaw of any kind. And as said i am convinced that him declaring was more an agent´s move.

What I am curious about is, if all this is true, why do any Europeans come over to such an unimportant league as the NBA at all?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I think this is a big risk for Rubio - he could have come here, adjusted to the NBA and America at 18/19 and Minnesota would have given him the additional 2 years on the rookie contract no matter what so he would have had 4 years to prove himself worthy of playing in the NBA. He would have had endorsement deals from day one and been as much celebrity (if not moreso) than basketball star.

Instead he's going to play against lesser competition and try to come over here in 2012 - he will still be an unproven talent at that point on a NBA level. Look at guys like Fernandez, Rodriguez, Jaskevicious (sp?)...even if Rubio plays very well in Spain how do you open the checkbook that much on essentially an unknown quantity?

Even if the Wolves don't have cap money saved (which they would be enormously foolish to do at this point after the way this played out) do you really want to fork out Trevor Ariza like money to a guy who's never played a minute in the league?

I also think this saga is going to hurt the draft prospects of future players in that situation. Right now, Minnesota looks pretty bad in giving up two solid players (Foye and Miller) for nothing and Minnesota really is looking at not a ton of upside either. If he plays lousy in Spain he's worthless. If he plays just ok he probably still has no trade value. Rubio basically has to light it up in Spain and an NBA team is going to need some kind of guarantee that he's coming before they'll deal for him. Kahn's trying to save face but the argument that Rubio's still an "asset" is looking pretty bad at this point because right now, that asset isn't worth a whole lot to the franchise.

If it all works out (Rubio plays great for 3 years, comes here and gets a big deal and leads Minnesota to the playoffs for a decade) then I guess its a win but right now the only winner looks like Rubio in that he's getting paid and has the T-Wolves by the balls. Rubio doesn't need to come to the NBA ever - as long as he plays at a high level he can make a very nice living in a good basketball league in Spain. Minnesota is the one that needs Rubio to come here.

I should just wait for you to post basketball thoughts and then just +1 because you basically spent way more time then I was able to and really eloquently summed up all my feelings on this. Big big risk for Rubio. In fact I don't see how it can possibly help him in the future. I don't think he is enough of a physical talent to be able to really dominate over in Europe to the degree that he'll be seen as a superstar - he's much more of a finesse-type player.

I don't think anybody will open the checkbooks and give him max-money or even Ariza-money at that point, especially given how much of a commodity cap-room is in the NBA today.

And there's no question it hurts the draft prospect of other foreign players, which is a pretty douchey thing to do.

[gstelmack]

Here's my question: did Rubio put his name in for the NBA draft, or do the NBA folks just draft whoever they feel like from the foreign ranks? I don't know how that works. If it's the latter, than good for Rubio. If the former, WTF did he put his name in in the first place if he had no intentions of playing? It's my understanding that it's the latter, and he's being a crybaby because the Knicks didn't pick him. If the Spanish leagues are so awesome and the right place for him to play, he shouldn't have entered the draft in the first place.