Alright Boyz, Here We Go!!!! (OOTP 2007 release thoughts!!!)

[BigPapi]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

He said it wasn't intended to be in the game and was removed with the first patch, but a bunch of us responded that we liked it and it should be put back in.

I'll second that...But only if it works as intended.

[Lathum]

Something odd happening.

I like to manage the games and for some reason all of a suddenly when it is my turn for my players to bat they arent shown in the batters box with their ratings. etc..

anyone else seen this?

[Lathum]

dola- it shows the other teams players in the box and it shows my players ratings when they are in the field and on base as well.

[adubroff]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Something odd happening.

I like to manage the games and for some reason all of a suddenly when it is my turn for my players to bat they arent shown in the batters box with their ratings. etc..

anyone else seen this?

There's a pulldown on the game screen where you choose what scout's ratings to show for the batters. Most likely, whichever scout you've chosen hasn't scouted your team.

I didn't see the second message about the fielding ratings showing up. That seems to indicate the scout has scouted your team. I'm stumped.

[RainMaker]

I think one of the problems with the minors is that it doesn't take age into consideration. You may have a 19 year old kid on your AA team who is ready for AA but the 2nd best catcher on the team. The first guy might be better, but 25, and more or less at the peak of his development. The computer doesn't take into account that the 25 year old is expendable, and the 19 year old is the prize.

Age and potential need to factor into the AI decision making.

[Drake]

Here's a thought (that I haven't tested): could part of the problem with the minors be that we treat the minor league managers as interchangeable? When I turn the minors over to the AI -- which I always do -- I never look at the strategies of the manager I'm hiring. By default, the manager in the minors is going to try to *win* (because, well, that's what the AI is programmed to do), meaning that it's going to put the team most likely to win games on the field. It doesn't *care* about developing players because it doesn't understand that the role of the minor leagues is to develop talent for the parent club.

So, my question is: what happens if you hire minor league managers that have their strategy slider all the way over to "favor prospects"? Would the manager then play the young guys that you want to develop rather than favoring guys who are older but who might have topped out?

I don't know the answer to this question. I'm just thinking out loud.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Not to mention, I've had plenty of trades offered to me that would not have been a good deal for me. So even if I'm looking at complete balance as being the sole determining factor of whether the trading AI is flawed, I'm not consistently seeing one-sided deals at all.

I'm just talking about taking a useless player, shopping around and always finding something useful for him.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Drake

Would the manager then play the young guys that you want to develop rather than favoring guys who are older but who might have topped out?

The beauty of it is that playing time doesn't matter in developing prospects. Which makes the whole minor league overload pointless.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I'm just talking about taking a useless player, shopping around and always finding something useful for him.

And when I do that on hard trading, I get 3-5 offers, tops. On average trading, I'd get 10-20 offers.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And when I do that on hard trading, I get 3-5 offers, tops. On average trading, I'd get 10-20 offers.

Hmm.... I have it on very hard and get screens of offers, I've never counted how many.

This game has so many odd issues, and everyone's experiences are different. Some say the AI has 100 players on it's A ball team, some say it won't sign enough to fill the rosters.

The tone on the OOTP board is getting negative. Clearly the posters are tired of new bells and whistles and want the AI to be the main priority, but I'm sure it won't get fixed. You'd have to be an idiot at this point to believe it's getting fixed.

[BigMak]

I am glad I waited to see everybody's thoughts here on the game before purchasing. It sounds like issues which have been there for a long time are still present. I also get the impression that there is very little of a "game" left in OOTP. A second job is what this sounds like now. The idea of buying a game and spending an hour or hours setting up a universe is just a terrible idea.

Also, the lack of an OOTP community has turned me off to it. One of the reasons I chose OOTP over Puresim in years past was because of the active members in the community. Now a month of so after release and there are still no 2007 rosters available. In years past, there were usually several versions to choose from.

[Buccaneer]

I am not disappointed that I purchased v2007 for I personally support developers that build "open" games. But I am glad that I still have v5 for while many OOTP fans have been struggling with finding everything or getting the right settings in v2007, I have been into a great career so far. I know I didn't work hard to get into v2007 but I was eager to start playing a baseball sim again so I got out my long time favorite.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Hmm.... I have it on very hard and get screens of offers, I've never counted how many.

This game has so many odd issues, and everyone's experiences are different. Some say the AI has 100 players on it's A ball team, some say it won't sign enough to fill the rosters.

The tone on the OOTP board is getting negative. Clearly the posters are tired of new bells and whistles and want the AI to be the main priority, but I'm sure it won't get fixed. You'd have to be an idiot at this point to believe it's getting fixed.

you're such a curmudgeon

[Ksyrup]

To be fair, I'm enjoying the game, but there are a lot of issues with it, from substance to UI, and I'll admit that I don't play in a way that exposes me to many of the issues people have found. And, I'll also admit that I'm so pleased, in general, with the historical part of the game that it trumps many of the small issues I have.

[Ksyrup]

The other thing I'm somewhat curious about is SD's lack of contribution to this thread since around the time the game was released. He's been very quiet, outside of working on his fictional settings stuff. I'm curious to hear what he thinks, if he's still playing, and what his level of enjoyment is. Because honestly, if this game was strictly fictional, or there wasn't the improvement to the historical side that there is, I'd probably be inclined to do what Bucc is doing.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

you're such a curmudgeon

Don't you have to get back to fixing things so that the Pirates get 'hot' when you run a sim?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Hmm.... I have it on very hard and get screens of offers, I've never counted how many.

This game has so many odd issues, and everyone's experiences are different. Some say the AI has 100 players on it's A ball team, some say it won't sign enough to fill the rosters.

The tone on the OOTP board is getting negative. Clearly the posters are tired of new bells and whistles and want the AI to be the main priority, but I'm sure it won't get fixed. You'd have to be an idiot at this point to believe it's getting fixed.

I think the "openness" of the game is the problem. There are simply too many variables involved when allowing someone to build a universe. It's just too hard to develop an AI that will handle every possible scenario effectively.

I setup 5 universes that were completely different in terms of teams and minor league systems. Each one had problems that were completely different. Some had lopsided talent distribution, some had horrible management of the minors, and others just had odd bugs that were stuff I'd never seen in an OOTP game before. You'd report this stuff, but honestly, no two universes and errors are alike.

Whether SI takes any blame for the disasters of the last two OOTPs, that partnership has been nothing short of a game killer.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think the "openness" of the game is the problem. There are simply too many variables involved when allowing someone to build a universe. It's just too hard to develop an AI that will handle every possible scenario effectively.

I setup 5 universes that were completely different in terms of teams and minor league systems. Each one had problems that were completely different. Some had lopsided talent distribution, some had horrible management of the minors, and others just had odd bugs that were stuff I'd never seen in an OOTP game before. You'd report this stuff, but honestly, no two universes and errors are alike.

Whether SI takes any blame for the disasters of the last two OOTPs, that partnership has been nothing short of a game killer.

The goal for the next patch should be to get the 6.5 structure to work properly. 30 team MLB with 3 levels on minors. Get that to actually work, then get to work on fixing the rest of this mess.

[SirFozzie]

Wow, I'm seeing a lot of undeserved negativity here on this game.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Wow, I'm seeing a lot of undeserved negativity here on this game.

I disagree. This game seemed excellent to me for a few weeks. The more I play, the worse it gets. The AI is hideous, the player creation and balancing is horrid and there are so many moving parts it's impossible to strike any sort of balance.

Edit: And that is throwing out things like scouting which are completely terrible 'features'. I'm just trying to play a fictional league with 30 teams and 3 levels of the minors.

[tanglewood]

Why is scouting terrible? I like it.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Why is scouting terrible? I like it.

I guess it's a matter of taste, but the amount of work and clicking alone makes it terrible in my eyes.

[Young Drachma]

I think some of this criticism is probably more likely to signal the fact that a different game (read: PureSim) would be more apt for people who are solely interested in playing a MLB universe with minors and nothing else.

Because frankly, the depth of OOTP in my mind is its biggest strength, even with all of the problems. The game sure does appeal to a certain base. And the AI has problems like it always has and there are some other "fundamental" issues that are annoying.

But I always like to compare these issues to other types of games we play without any sort of recourse at all. And maybe it's not fair to compare textsims to big box publisher games that get produced en masse or console games that we all play despite their inability year after year (Especially in sports) to get some things right versus others.

I think all in all, OOTP07 does it what it's designed to do. To allow pretty much any conceivable universe scenario and allow you to pull it off fairly well. Perfect? Heck no.

But I think at this point, the space between #1 and #2 on the market for this genre of baseball sim is so far that apart that it's not funny.

And if last year is any indication, they'll at least listen to what we have to say and that the next version -- not to mention whatever patches follow -- will be better.

And while there are niches to be filled out there, I don't think this makes this version a "bad" one by any stretch.

Though all of the gripes are well taken.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think all in all, OOTP07 does it what it's designed to do.

Well you might be right, which to me is the problem.

You can build all sorts of complicated universes and have beautiful logos and playing fields. You can have statistical overload beyond anything that would even be remotely necessary. You can believe that the player personalities and the happiness modules work (I can't tell if they do or not).

To actually enjoy the game though you have to ignore things that I'm just not capable of ignoring. The constant sign and release. The releasing of early round draft picks a few months after the draft. The horrible player creation in the draft (i.e. how about some infielders). The huge problem that the MR position has become for the AI. The breakneck speed at which prospects develop. The fact that for all the complexity built into the minor leagues playing time seems to have NO IMPACT on how players develop.

I know I'm just stating the same complaints over and over, but I want to play this game and I want to enjoy this game, but these things are making it impossible. I know that Jim takes a lot of crap because the game isn't flexible, but you can't even compare things like player development or the draft process between FOF and OOTP, FOF is so much better at this point that you have to wonder if OOTP is EVER going to improve.

[Young Drachma]

Sign and release doesn't happen if you have the lowest level of minors set to unlimited.

You can create players in the draft to replace the ones the game creates if you want, by simply changing your creation modifiers and then going to "Create fictional players" and creating the type of players you want for different rounds, etc.

And you can slow down the prospect development if you want.

I know because I've done all of it.

I think that the one thing I didn't mention in my last post that I meant to, is the fact that this game does have a huge gulf to immersiveness. There is SO much going on, that if you just want to dive in and start a MLB universe and go from there, it might require so much to do that that it's almost not worth it for most people.

I totally get that. And a suggestion someone once made would be if people who have already done that would release templates for people to just download and to dive into, so they don't have to go through all of that.

So yeah, in terms of an "out of the box" game ready situation, this game leaves a lot to be desired because so much tinkering is needed.

But I think that's just something that's always been endemic to ANY of the games of this genre.

[Swaggs]

I'm still enjoying it. My only complaint is that I really cannot sim as quickly as I would like, but I am really enjoying the franchise building aspect of it.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Sign and release doesn't happen if you have the lowest level of minors set to unlimited.

You can create players in the draft to replace the ones the game creates if you want, by simply changing your creation modifiers and then going to "Create fictional players" and creating the type of players you want for different rounds, etc.

And you can slow down the prospect development if you want.

I think that the one thing I didn't mention in my last post that I meant to, is the fact that this game does have a huge gulf to immersiveness. There is SO much going on, that if you just want to dive in and start a MLB universe and go from there, it might require so much to do that that it's almost not worth it for most people.

I totally get that. And a suggestion someone once made would be if people who have already done that would release templates for people to just download and to dive into, so they don't have to go through all of that.

So yeah, in terms of an "out of the box" game ready situation, this game leaves a lot to be desired because so much tinkering is needed.

If you set it to unlimted you just end up with 50+ players at that level. And even though they don't play they still develop. Just as annoying.

I'm not creating fictional players to replace the draft pool, just something I'm not going to do. This one isn't a huge deal breaker anyway, if the AI would just draft the MR and use them I could get over that.

I've tried to slow down prospect development, but just end up with them not developing at all.

I'm using a template, 30 teams with three levels of minors. This game is a huge improvement over the last version, and even though I don't love the interface, that isn't what is killing me. It's the same issues that were annoying in OOTP4 are still annoying now - that is the issue. If they would just fix them instead of adding complicated systems of personality and happiness I'd much prefer that. Plus the more things like that you add, the harder it gets to program the AI to make any kind of decent decisions, but why not keep making it harder when you can't get it right anyway.

[bselig]

Ran into something neat I didn't expect(or possibly some kind of bug and I'm giving the game/template too much credit). Simmed the game to 1917 and took over the Pirates. Of course I aquired Ruth and turned them into the Yankees. So I'm cruising along into the 30s(fastest of the fast simmers) and I start noticing my budget keeps getting chopped, after years of it going up in a straight line. So I start trying to lower ticket prices more in line with the league, but it's not doing anything. As it dips below payroll(naturally I have expensive superstars like Gehrig, Foxx, Gehringer) I start freaking out, thinking this is clearly some kind of bug and I'll have to retire my league. Then I realize it's 1933, right in the middle of the Great Depression. Nice touch

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Sign and release doesn't happen if you have the lowest level of minors set to unlimited.

You can create players in the draft to replace the ones the game creates if you want, by simply changing your creation modifiers and then going to "Create fictional players" and creating the type of players you want for different rounds, etc.

And you can slow down the prospect development if you want.

I know because I've done all of it.

See, this is where I start to have a problem with the game, where the openness you see as a strength some of us see as a weakness. I'm already doing so much to get my game in playable shape that I don't want to have to continually mess with how many players are on the minor league teams; I don't want to have to create fictional players every single year for the draft to balance out the problems the game has in creating them; I don't want to have to scientifically assess the player development problems and then figure out what tweaks need to be put in place to get it right. The damn game should do all of that for us! Bottom line. It's one thing if I want to create a certain outcome, but just a general, playable, "normal" scenario, the game should be able to make that happen with few, if any, tweaks.

And if, in order to get that right, we have to sacrifice some customization, I'm all for it. It's great being able to set up all of these different leagues. The problem comes when you actually do more than that - when you try to play. I think this game needs to narrow its focus to get the core of the game right and playable. Otherwise, you end up with a game that, on the vast majority of set ups, is only fun to create the types of leagues you want and sim them out. Because if you play from the macro level and don't get too in-depth into the leagues, things look alright. Anything more than that, and you start to see issues as you play.

And this doesn't even bring in the UI issues I have, which are monumental and I've posted about repeatedly. Playing yesterday, I still can't get past when I look at my players' stats and want to click on one of them, I get their HTML page. If I'm fast simming and not really playing, that's perfect. If I'm playing in-game and need to make a move with them, the HTML page is worthless. So instead, I have to think Right Click and Open Player Profile, or go to my Manager Page to get into the Roster/Transaction screens to get to the "correct" player pages I need to get to. It's insane.

Even though I've gotten better at using the UI, there are issues with it that I can't get past. Like the fact that the way you view your team on the roster/rotations/lineup screens are all customizable. That sounds great in theory, until you try it in practice. If I go to my roster screen, I'd like to see an overview of my players, so I leave it on the default settings. When I go to my rotation screen to see my pitchers, that same default view is there - including my batters. Why do I need to see my batters on the rotation screen? So I change the defaults to see just my pitchers and their current year's stats. Great. Now I need to make lineup changes, so I go to that screen, and what do I see? My pitchers. I then have to make another set of changes to the "defaults" so that I can see hitters and make the lineup changes I need. Whoops, I forgot I wanted to make a couple of changes to my middle relief. Back to that screen. Wait, all I see are my hitters; gotta change the defaults again to see my pitchers.

It's that kind of experience that has gotten me close to just giving up on the game. It's a credit to the game, though, that I haven't. There are some tremendous things going on here, and like I've said repeatedly, the historical part of this game is the only thing keeping me going right now, it's that good. But the problems with the UI and the "under the hood" issues I see as I play tell me that this game has some fundamental problems that are being caused by what many see as the game's biggest strength - its openness.

[Young Drachma]

I'm no apologist for the game by any stretch. No of the complaints to me seem to be well-reasoned issues. No doubt about it.

[King of New York]

I've only run historical sims since getting the game, and without taking anything away from the valid criticisms and suggestions that folks have made, I want to give this game some love.

As far as historical simming goes, this game has set a new standard for ease of use, flexibility, and statistical accuracy. Automatic expansion; automatic adjustment of finances; automatic updating of team names and league alignment; league totals automatically recalculated each season; individual player ratings recalculated if you want them to be...

My one suggestion: I would like to see the game made even harder financially. Taking even the lowly Senators, I can inevitably turn my team into a financial powerhouse after a decade or two, and then I almost never finish lower than second or third place. My merchandise sales are greater than some teams' entire income! Of course, I can adjust this by giving all my cash to other ball clubs, but it would be nice if I did not have to do that every few seasons.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by King of New York

As far as historical simming goes, this game has set a new standard for ease of use, flexibility, and statistical accuracy. Automatic expansion; automatic adjustment of finances; automatic updating of team names and league alignment; league totals automatically recalculated each season; individual player ratings recalculated if you want them to be...

Let's say I wanted to do exactly the opposite on each of those things, what would your opinion be as a historical simmer?

My interest in playing v2007 as a long time historical simmer would be to add some of the new elements into my routine but to absolutely not do any of those things (e.g., manual expansion, no recalc, keep in one era, etc.).

[RainMaker]

Anyone know why they are having so much trouble with rosters (did they even have a roster set last year?)? Is the game not being given in advance, or atleast the format for making the rosters to some of the roster makers? And if they are giving to people in advance, who is deciding to give it to these specific people?

I went through the roster thread to see what was up over there, and it was basically some guy giving his daily medical report on his tennis elbow.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Anyone know why they are having so much trouble with rosters (did they even have a roster set last year?)? Is the game not being given in advance, or atleast the format for making the rosters to some of the roster makers? And if they are giving to people in advance, who is deciding to give it to these specific people?

I went through the roster thread to see what was up over there, and it was basically some guy giving his daily medical report on his tennis elbow.

It's too much work to do and those that said they were doing it seemed to have quit.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

It's too much work to do and those that said they were doing it seemed to have quit.

Is it because the game is more complex? In the old versions, they always had a roster set on release date and a slew of others throughout the season.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Is it because the game is more complex? In the old versions, they always had a roster set on release date and a slew of others throughout the season.

I can't imagine trying to do a set for this game with the number of available things to rate players on.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Is it because the game is more complex? In the old versions, they always had a roster set on release date and a slew of others throughout the season.

I think it has to do with the roster makers thinking they need to put out a set with every real player from MLB down to Rookie ball and if they don't put out this "complete" set people will bitch. Too me this is not the way to go. IMHO the makers should put out a MLB set (40 man roster) and the teams top 5-10 prospects. You're now looking at a set that will contain 50 players per team tops, 1500 players in total. Much easier number to manage and more in line with what was needed for the old versions before complete minor leagues were introduced.

Once this set is out then move on to adding all the other levels if it's really even worthwhile (it's not IMHO). Keep in mind most of these "real minor leaguers" are never going to get a sniff of the show.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I think it has to do with the roster makers thinking they need to put out a set with every real player from MLB down to Rookie ball and if they don't put out this "complete" set people will bitch. Too me this is not the way to go. IMHO the makers should put out a MLB set (40 man roster) and the teams top 5-10 prospects. You're now looking at a set that will contain 50 players per team tops, 1500 players in total. Much easier number to manage and more in line with what was needed for the old versions before complete minor leagues were introduced.

Once this set is out then move on to adding all the other levels if it's really even worthwhile (it's not IMHO). Keep in mind most of these "real minor leaguers" are never going to get a sniff of the show.

That is a good idea. I think that's how they used to be. I honestly don't know more than the top 10 on my favorite team. Not to mention that the CPU will just drop all the top prospects from their team within a couple weeks anyway.

I did read through the thread in its entirety. What a mess! By the time rosters come out, it's time for the next season. And Rolen was always one of the coolest guys from the old boards, it's a shame he's gotten caught up in the attention baiting that a lot of the newer guys have. Seems like the roster sets are more about getting "board props" than actually building a nice OOTP community.

And what happened to GForce? That guy was phenomenal at roster sets. Hopefully next year the OOTP guys don't give out the early copies to the same dolts they did this year.

[BigPapi]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That is a good idea. I think that's how they used to be. I honestly don't know more than the top 10 on my favorite team. Not to mention that the CPU will just drop all the top prospects from their team within a couple weeks anyway.

I did read through the thread in its entirety. What a mess! By the time rosters come out, it's time for the next season. And Rolen was always one of the coolest guys from the old boards, it's a shame he's gotten caught up in the attention baiting that a lot of the newer guys have. Seems like the roster sets are more about getting "board props" than actually building a nice OOTP community.

And what happened to GForce? That guy was phenomenal at roster sets. Hopefully next year the OOTP guys don't give out the early copies to the same dolts they did this year.

GForce...There's a name from the past- I agree his roster sets were awesome.

I don't know what to think about the current situation. Six weeks ago we were told they were "almost complete" with a little bit of tweaking- but just following the blogging of some of the help Erich has gotten makes it clear that was never the case. I posted over there last week just asking what still needed to be completed- and was promptly ignored. I would never put Erich in the same class as that complete tool Pujols or whatever his name is- but I am really disappointed these are dragging into May- especially knowing these were started well in advance of the game being released....I am starting to doubt whether they will be released or not as well.

[SunDevil]

The most ironic part is when Mark creates a thread asking people why they have not picked up the game yet, and the majority agree its because of no roster set.

Another miscalculation by SI, maybe next year they can streamline the process or make it easier to make a roster set. In terms of the people assigned to create the roster sets, they do have a long track record of coming through and doing a good job, I am sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle with both sides responsible for dropping the ball on this issue.

[scoman]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

The most ironic part is when Mark creates a thread asking people why they have not picked up the game yet, and the majority agree its because of no roster set.

Another miscalculation by SI, maybe next year they can streamline the process or make it easier to make a roster set. In terms of the people assigned to create the roster sets, they do have a long track record of coming through and doing a good job, I am sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle with both sides responsible for dropping the ball on this issue.

Most people could care less about so called real rosters. A very small percentage of people have not bought the game based on ,no so called real rosters.

Another thing I find very odd is,if you have OOTPB 2007 and have complaints,why do you post them here on Front office football forum,of all places.


Why don't you fellas create so called real rosters and post them.


Oh wait a minute,I know,its easier to bitch and moan about it.

[cougarfreak]

I'll be honest with you..........after the 2006 disaster, I'm enjoying 2007 quite a bit. My biggest complaint would be the players that make up the draft classes (been mentioned on here). But I can live with it, and hope it improves.

[scoman]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm no apologist for the game by any stretch. None of the complaints to me seem to be well-reasoned issues. No doubt about it.

Couldn't agree more,most of the complaints in this thread are weak at best. And if there is a issue,the tech support team are more than willing to take note of the issues and try to get them fixed. The bashing in this thread is just ridiculous,mostly made by people that you can't please anyway.

[scoman]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And what happened to GForce?

He was banned a month or 2 ago.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by scoman

Couldn't agree more,most of the complaints in this thread are weak at best. And if there is a issue,the tech support team are more than willing to take note of the issues and try to get them fixed. The bashing in this thread is just ridiculous,mostly made by people that you can't please anyway.

Oh what a shock. An OOTP fanboy doing his best imitation of a troll.

Gosh, never seen that one before

[scoman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh what a shock. An OOTP fanboy doing his best imitation of a troll.

Gosh, never seen that one before

Oh what a shock,being called a fanboy by someone who has no idea of my gaming background or gaming experience,always pretty easy to resort to the troll card when you really have nothing valid to say,nice job skippy, 12,000 posts and thats the best you got,pretty typical of the crap I've seen posted.Bottom line,fanboy has nothing too do with it,hated 2006,just calling a spade a spade,sorry you can't handle it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by scoman

... sorry you can't handle it.

Rather than waste bandwidth by trolling here, simply go play Markus' latest abomination. Or go suck his dick. Or whatever floats your boat.
But try to do the world a favor and be sure to die before you breed.

But if you venture over here & act like a typical sack of shit fanboy, you can bet your ass you're going to be called on it.

[Fouts]

I was going to say the level of maturity on the OOTP forums was much lower than here so I avoid the place, but now I have no leg to stand on.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cut the sanctimonius bullshit Fouts.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Cut the sanctimonius bullshit Fouts.

LOL