Alright boyz, here we go!!! OOTP2006 First Impressions Thread!

[MizzouRah]

It's a new day and Marc I think it's unfair for any of us NOT to give SI a chance to help Markus and OOTP. With that being said, it sounds as if the new version might have taken a step back as far as game AI goes.

I think Skydog would be a great addition to the beta team, but it's clear he doesn't have the time right now... Troy is an excellent canidate though.

Edit: as is lynchjm24

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

there are many enjoying the game currently

Anyone enjoying the game should immediately be disqualified from the 'dream team'.

It doesn't take long on the OOTP boards to find a segment of people that are positive towards the game no matter what. You could have released a game that put viruses and spyware on our hard drives and Dale and Eli's Dad would post in every thread telling us that once we reinstalled windows we are really going to come around.

It's quite an impressive undertaking and the amount of information available to the player is startling, but anyone who is currently enjoying this game is out of their mind.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Anyone enjoying the game should immediately be disqualified from the 'dream team'.

It doesn't take long on the OOTP boards to find a segment of people that are positive towards the game no matter what. You could have released a game that put viruses and spyware on our hard drives and Dale and Eli's Dad would post in every thread telling us that once we reinstalled windows we are really going to come around.

It's quite an impressive undertaking and the amount of information available to the player is startling, but anyone who is currently enjoying this game is out of their mind.

Or just not paying attention.

If you don't visit the transaction screens, I could see someone not even knowing some of the stuff going on. It's so easy to get lost into the statistical displays that you don't notice what is really going on behind the scenes.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Anyone enjoying the game should immediately be disqualified from the 'dream team'.

It doesn't take long on the OOTP boards to find a segment of people that are positive towards the game no matter what. You could have released a game that put viruses and spyware on our hard drives and Dale and Eli's Dad would post in every thread telling us that once we reinstalled windows we are really going to come around.

It's quite an impressive undertaking and the amount of information available to the player is startling, but anyone who is currently enjoying this game is out of their mind.

Bull shit. I'm enjoying the game, but at the same time I've been very critical of it and have notified SI of probably about 10 actual traceable bugs. I want this game to be better then what it is, but I also realize that fun factor and playability of the game in it's current state.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Anyone enjoying the game should immediately be disqualified from the 'dream team'.

It doesn't take long on the OOTP boards to find a segment of people that are positive towards the game no matter what. You could have released a game that put viruses and spyware on our hard drives and Dale and Eli's Dad would post in every thread telling us that once we reinstalled windows we are really going to come around.

It's quite an impressive undertaking and the amount of information available to the player is startling, but anyone who is currently enjoying this game is out of their mind.

Boy, talk about the proper perspective. The only qualification then is if you can't possibly endure letting the game boot up. And god forbid you can tolerate creating a league. Geez, fleets anyone?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Bull shit. I'm enjoying the game, but at the same time I've been very critical of it and have notified SI of probably about 10 actual traceable bugs. I want this game to be better then what it is, but I also realize that fun factor and playability of the game in it's current state.

Everyone has a different level of "fun factor"

For me, the single transaction screen above makes the game nearly useless for solo play. If teams sign guys to monster contracts and instantly trade them for a middle reliever, I have no desire to start a serious league.

That isn't a bug I can have a "house rule" and walk away from.

Have I enjoyed the new interface? Yeah, despite a few things I think needs tweaking. I like it more than most.

Have I enjoyed pouring through the stats? God yes. The detail level is staggering, even after looking at it for a couple of weeks. I'm just amazed. It should be the new standard for any baseball game going forward. Simply stunning.

But have I enjoyed trying to have a long term solo career? I don't know how that could happen with the game in the state it is in. Just looking at the transactions screen in my league horrifies me. Just my opinion, yours may differ. I'm good with that.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Everyone has a different level of "fun factor"

For me, the single transaction screen above makes the game nearly useless for solo play. If teams sign guys to monster contracts and instantly trade them for a middle reliever, I have no desire to start a serious league.

That isn't a bug I can have a "house rule" and walk away from.

Have I enjoyed the new interface? Yeah, despite a few things I think needs tweaking. I like it more than most.

Have I enjoyed pouring through the stats? God yes. The detail level is staggering, even after looking at it for a couple of weeks. I'm just amazed. It should be the new standard for any baseball game going forward. Simply stunning.

But have I enjoyed trying to have a long term solo career? I don't know how that could happen with the game in the state it is in. Just looking at the transactions screen in my league horrifies me. Just my opinion, yours may differ. I'm good with that.

And I agree with you, it's not in a position where you currently can conduct a "serious" league. But that doesn't mean it's not fun to just play with it and see what happens. The AI contract issues are currently the biggest problem with the game. And until they are resolved I'm not going to do anything serious, but it does not make the game unplayable for me, because I'm just enjoying making leagues and simming them and learning how the game reacts to what I've set up.

[st.cronin]

I guess there's a lot of people that don't like the new interface, but I love it. I think it's absolutely fantastic.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by dangarion

because I'm just enjoying making leagues and simming them and learning how the game reacts to what I've set up.

Is that really playing the game then? You can see on the prior page I said that I could see spending time learning the interface or how some things interact. I see that there is a subset of people that seem to just enjoy setting up leagues. I don't really see how that is 'playing' the game.

[Maple Leafs]

Hey guys... installing the demo now. Two quick questions before I get started:

- Do I need to install any patches, or is the demo up to date?

- Can I start with MLB rosters? If not, can I get them somewhere?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I see that there is a subset of people that seem to just enjoy setting up leagues. I don't really see how that is 'playing' the game.

If there was an option to design uniforms, this thing could really be BIG.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If there was an option to design uniforms, this thing could really be BIG.

This game has a lot more in common with Maximum Football then anyone wants to admit. A million way to customize the game, a million things that don't work.

I keep hearing how great it is that you can set up international leagues and set them with MLEs back to your major league. Of course none of it works - you end up with good players being signed from major leagues back to lesser leagues and if you turn on trading between leagues it gets even worse. I'd love to read the SI boards the day that Beckham jumped to the Metrostars in FM.

Did anyone from SI even ever play OOTP 6.5 or even so much as read the boards? The waiver/roster AI was the number 1 glaring issue. It should have been fixed before ANYTHING else was added. I honestly can not believe the pass that this game is getting. I keep expecting as people get tired of these glaring problems the opinions will become lower, but I guess we aren't far enough from release yet. The only conclusion I can reach is that most who will look at this game with a critical eye were much smarter then me and waited to purchase.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Is that really playing the game then? You can see on the prior page I said that I could see spending time learning the interface or how some things interact. I see that there is a subset of people that seem to just enjoy setting up leagues. I don't really see how that is 'playing' the game.

Playing the game is all subjective to the user. Some people actually play out games one by one, some people manage a team sim out day by day, some people manage a team and sim week by week, some people manage a team and sim out month by month, others commish a whole league and sim out month by month, and there are even people that create entire worlds and like to see what happens. What you consider "playing" is not the same as what, Jim, Bob, or Sam consider playing.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Playing the game is all subjective to the user. Some people actually play out games one by one, some people manage a team sim out day by day, some people manage a team and sim week by week, some people manage a team and sim out month by month, others commish a whole league and sim out month by month, and there are even people that create entire worlds and like to see what happens. What you consider "playing" is not the same as what, Jim, Bob, or Sam consider playing.

If you want to define creating a league, and not giving a shit about what happens in it and then looking at the results "x" amount of seasons later, then sure - I'll grant you that you can play the game in this way.

You have to really not give a shit that anything behind the scenes isn't working... unless you don't mind players being signed for 10MM dollars, then released days later, then resigned days later for 10MM dollars to be released again within the week. It's like the OOTP AI is George Steinbrenner and every player is Billy Martin.

The AI took it's instructions from the back of a shampoo bottle: Sign. Release. Repeat.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Or just not paying attention.

If you don't visit the transaction screens, I could see someone not even knowing some of the stuff going on. It's so easy to get lost into the statistical displays that you don't notice what is really going on behind the scenes.

Troy, so I assume you have been winning the WS every season then. If not, what is the AI doing better than you?

I'm being partly facetious because AI roster management has always been a problem...in nearly all text sims. In OOTP5, which I play, it is not as drastic as the examples shown above and in 6.5 because I play historical leagues which help mitigate the need for superstar trading/ditchings. But the AI does get most of the big stuff right regarding transactions (like drafting the best players, going after the best free agents, and expect a lot in return in trades) that makes it harder for me to win (esp. with some houserules).

[Buccaneer]

For me, the single transaction screen above makes the game nearly useless for solo play. If teams sign guys to monster contracts and instantly trade them for a middle reliever,

I understand this (again, which I do not see in OOTP5). But what if the team that got the superstar slugger for about nothing was your closest competitor? The house rule is that YOU do not make trades like this (if you are able). Personally, I agree that this takes the fun out of the game but in all games (except FBCB), you have to either ignore or workaround a lot of things if you want to play solo.

Start->All Programs->400 Software Studios->OOTP5. Yep, still there.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Hey guys... installing the demo now. Two quick questions before I get started:

- Do I need to install any patches, or is the demo up to date?

- Can I start with MLB rosters? If not, can I get them somewhere?

The demo is up to date and so far there are no MLB rosters out as of yet.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The demo is up to date and so far there are no MLB rosters out as of yet.

http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=123258

MLB Quickstart.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by dangarion

http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=123258

MLB Quickstart.

No ootp 2006 designed rosters.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

This game has a lot more in common with Maximum Football then anyone wants to admit.

This game DOES have a demo.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

No ootp 2006 designed rosters.

Well considering that it's posted in the OOTP2006 Mod forum I would think they were designed for that. But maybe they just imported a OOTP 6.5 roster and did some stuff, didnt' realize that.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I honestly can not believe the pass that this game is getting. I keep expecting as people get tired of these glaring problems the opinions will become lower, but I guess we aren't far enough from release yet.

If it makes you feel any better, I agree 100% with everything you've said.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Well considering that it's posted in the OOTP2006 Mod forum I would think they were designed for that. But maybe they just imported a OOTP 6.5 roster and did some stuff, didnt' realize that.

Correct! ..and sounds like they are seeing some weird issues stat wise.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

OK. That sounds a little odd but I can see the benefits for certain types of players.

It just brought back bad memories of OOTP6.5, where they tried to address the issue of the AI not considering the difference between prospects and veterans by putting in a global setting where you could tell the game which type of player the AI should want. Which missed the point completely, of course, since the idea was that each AI team should make up their own mind.

These sort of settings always remind me of Kramer's movie-phone voice -- "Why don't you just tell me what the AI should do?"

Now that you've downloaded the demo, you'll be really pissed -- it's still there. There is a global setting for AI Trade Frequency, Trading Difficulty an Trading Preference. The Trading Preference is where you get the chance to globally set Veterans/Neutral/Prospects.

Each team has a setting for "Overall Roster Strategy" where you have a sliding scale with Favor Veterans on one end and Favor Prospects on the other. The Mega Game Guide doesn't explain what that means -- does this only apply to roster decisions meaning free agents and promotions/demotions? It seems unlikely this would overrirde the global trading setting.

Also of note is that your coaches and managers also have traits for favor veterans/favor prospects. I can only imagine what it means when you have your trade AI set to favor veterans, the team strategy is set to favor prospects and your have a manager who slighly favors veterans.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

..and sounds like they are seeing some weird issues stat wise.

In other words, the roster edit is working pretty much like everything else in the game?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Correct! ..and sounds like they are seeing some weird issues stat wise.

I had already done that day 1, I downloaded Cubbies OOTP6.5 rosters. It was cool having real players names, but some of the stats were not expected. Still worth the time to check it out while you wait for a real league file .

[jbmagic]

I really think no dream team will be able to fix the AI when it comes to waivers, releases, trades, etc until the Markus changes his way.

The problem is the logic behind the coding. If Markus has not fix it after all these versions, what makes you think he can finally fix it now?

The new engine was suppose to make things better, but how come the Ai still sucks? Because its the logic behind the coding.

I really tought with a new engine we might only see new Ai flaws we never seen before. But I really did not think we will still see the old AI flaws return to the new engine.

They can have the greatest super engine and the AI still wont be great until Markus gets rid of his old idea of the AI when it comes to waivers, releases and trades and starts over.

A lot of people tought when the new engine came, it will fix the AI flaws. It didnt because he brought his old ideas back to ootp 2006 from previous versions.

It going to take a big effort from Markus and Si to make the AI better. I just dont see it in ootp 2006. Its going to take a brand new version to fix this.

People are dreaming that patch #2, patch #3, etc will fix the AI because these AI flaws has been going on for a very long time.

If it was brand new Ai flaws we never seen before, I have confident they will get fix. But the old Ai flaws no way until Markus changes his logic.

[miked]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

This game has a lot more in common with Maximum Football then anyone wants to admit. A million way to customize the game, a million things that don't work.

I keep hearing how great it is that you can set up international leagues and set them with MLEs back to your major league. Of course none of it works - you end up with good players being signed from major leagues back to lesser leagues and if you turn on trading between leagues it gets even worse. I'd love to read the SI boards the day that Beckham jumped to the Metrostars in FM.

Did anyone from SI even ever play OOTP 6.5 or even so much as read the boards? The waiver/roster AI was the number 1 glaring issue. It should have been fixed before ANYTHING else was added. I honestly can not believe the pass that this game is getting. I keep expecting as people get tired of these glaring problems the opinions will become lower, but I guess we aren't far enough from release yet. The only conclusion I can reach is that most who will look at this game with a critical eye were much smarter then me and waited to purchase.

Agreed. It's just amazing the amount of things that don't work correctly. I can't even get through my transaction pages and it's only the All-Star break. I don't know why the AI has to keep it's 40-man rosters full, and then try and place any piece of crap they sign on it. The extension logic sucks, the waivers suck, the sign, release, sign release sucks...and they've all been there for several versions now.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Now that you've downloaded the demo, you'll be really pissed -- it's still there. There is a global setting for AI Trade Frequency, Trading Difficulty an Trading Preference. The Trading Preference is where you get the chance to globally set Veterans/Neutral/Prospects.

Yeah, I saw that. A bit of a head-shaker there. It's not so much that the feature bothers me -- it won't get in the way since nobody will ever use it. But it makes you wonder whether they really understand the issue if they thought that would actually fix anything.

[MizzouRah]

Well, a little 6.51a for you as well:

[/quote]
I have no doubt baseball has to be maybe the hardest game to program due to all the leagues and players, but like most have already said, turning off waivers/options/40 man might make the game playable, just not as fun or as much strategy, imho.

---

Last edited by MizzouRah : 06-10-2006 at 01:14 PM.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Well, a little 6.51a for you as well:


I have no doubt baseball has to be maybe the hardest game to program due to all the leagues and players, but like most have already said, turning off waivers/options/40 man might make the game playable, just not as fun or as much strategy, imho.

[Maple Leafs]

Some quick questions on trading:

I'm up to early May in the quickstart MLB league, and so far there hasn't been a trade. Normal?

How do you get responses to a trade offer? I've made three, and each time got the "we'll let you know in a few days" message. I've never heard back from anyone, weeks later. Normal?

Is there a way to just play as a GM -- to let the AI handle all your lineup and in-game managing? Is that what the bench coach is for?

[Dale And Eli's Dad]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Anyone enjoying the game should immediately be disqualified from the 'dream team'.

It doesn't take long on the OOTP boards to find a segment of people that are positive towards the game no matter what. You could have released a game that put viruses and spyware on our hard drives and Dale and Eli's Dad would post in every thread telling us that once we reinstalled windows we are really going to come around.

It's quite an impressive undertaking and the amount of information available to the player is startling, but anyone who is currently enjoying this game is out of their mind.

Oh, you've got it all wrong. I'd tell Markus about the problems THEN make the suggestion that if you stopped spending all your time in your parent's basement sitting in your underpants beneath a giant "Lord of the Rings" poster while eating luke warm pizza bites your mom would bring you every ten minutes that you might be able to have a little more perspective on the game.

[Crapshoot]

Damn it lynchjim, you brought DAED over here ? I liked this forum because its free of him..

[Dale And Eli's Dad]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Damn it lynchjim, you brought DAED over here ? I liked this forum because its free of him..

Geez, you're here? I wondered where you went after everyone on the other boards tired of you.

[watravaler]

For the first time since the original Baseball Mogul, I'm having more fun playing the "beer and peanuts" game.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Dale And Eli's Dad

Oh, you've got it all wrong. I'd tell Markus about the problems THEN make the suggestion that if you stopped spending all your time in your parent's basement sitting in your underpants beneath a giant "Lord of the Rings" poster while eating luke warm pizza bites your mom would bring you every ten minutes that you might be able to have a little more perspective on the game.

1) The attack was uncalled for. You went on the OOTP board and slammed a guy who had a valid arguements about the games AI because he was posting under an alias. How is that for skewed perspective?

2) It doesn't matter if he's eating pizza bites from his mom in the basement or on Air Force One, he has perspective on the game and it's a valid one. If you think everything is rosy, all the more power to you.

3) All of the issues are being reported. Marc Duffy posts here as do a few of the beta testers of the game. They are getting reported and nobody with the game hopes they won't be fixed. This isn't a bash OOTP thread, it's an honest assessment of where the game is. The people of this forum aren't going to sugarcoat our opinions because we are worried about hurting someones feelings. Read the PureSim thread or the thread of about any other game and see what happens. Go read the FM thread and see how much the people of this forum like the game.

4) If you feel we are wrong in our criticisms, state examples of why we are wrong. Don't slam the criticism if it's valid.

[TurnerONU22]

I've set up a promotion/relegation type system with 104 teams w/each having a AAA "junior" team. While its fun to see what happens so far, i'm struggling with the financials. It seems that the teams just keep all of the cash and never give out bigger and better contracts, so that 15 years into the league, the contracts are the same as they were when I started.

I've read the guide and don't know what I'm doing wrong, does anyone else here have a suggestion? I'm hoping its something that I'm overlooking.

[GoSeahawks]

This was posted on the OOTP boards about FOF

Originally Posted by Raidergoo
The game is playable and enjoyable. My two cents.

The cited link reads like going to a coffee shop that is frequented by a few old, profane, dirty old men, and overhearing a conversation that has not changed since Richard Nixon was president.

Some like it, some don't, and they are gleefully vile about pretty much everything.

lol

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by GoSeahawks

This was posted on the OOTP boards about FOF


lol

I love it.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I love it.

Me too. We be famous now! Ha-ha-ha

[Galaril]

I have been trying to think of a fairly msjor game that had alot of hype and features and fell flat on it's face. The game that comes to mind is the MOO 3. It's terrible buggy, AI flawed release gave th ewindow of opportunity to a little game called Galactic Civilizations and the rest was history. Anyways, if Jim was planning on a making a baseball game boy would this be the time for it. I guess this is the chance for Puresim to take advantage of the situation. SI still has FM and EHM but this would have to be labeled a major set back for them. I am sure this is not even close to what they were expecting . But, to be honest anyone who has played the game would know what was going to happen upon the release. I can't believe they thought the game would be praised in it's current state.

[Buccaneer]

with 6.51a. yep you have to have those off you listed above for the AI to handle it well.

But I do keep options on. This way it will make some players refuse to goto the minors. Makes it a lttle more challenging.

Since when do you have these options on in order to make refuse to go to minors? 40man rosters and waivers do not add much to the strategy because even they have worked, you would still do better managing than the AI. Isn't the point in all of these solo games to do things to make the AI more competitive (hence, house rules)? In playing OOTP5, I have no problem taking out waivers (don't remember if 40man is there) and turning on arbitration and refuse to go to minors. Less micromanagement for me and less the AI can screw up further.

[treedom]

You guys can keep DAED, btw, 'cause we don't want him.

[RainMaker]

Well new here and came from a link on the OOTP boards. I do have to admit that many of your assesments are dead on and I was hoping I wasn't the only one going crazy thinking that this game.....well....kind of sucks. Of course any mention of that on the OOTP boards means being chased away by a couple individuals who are either a) on the payroll b) haven't played the game yet or c) playing a completely different version than the rest of us.

It's a nice forum and all, but those that do chase away individuals with legitimate complaints somewhat make it difficult for the game to improve in anyway. I'd argue that it could be a reason why this version is so bad. I'm also failing to see the correlation between sitting in your parent's basement and thinking the games roster management AI is flawed. I guess it's the next logical step after trying to encite some obscure 1940's reference where a team may have signed a star and released him weeks later and how Marcus was a genius for putting it into the game.

Either way you look at it, this game is worse than 6.51 on a number of levels. The in-game AI is flawed and they took out a lot of the functionality and control. Little things like warming up a reliever, telling a runner to stay/hold, or being able to set some strategy without going through the entire 7 pitch at-bat were important. I can deal with that, but the in-game management is poor as well. I'm seeing stars being pinch hit for by bench guys late for no reason. I would get into the bullpen management, but I honestly could write about that for days. All I know is that my last game so the starter go 4, 4 relievers go a 1/3 (including the closer) and the 5th have to finish out the entire game. I guess if they need another pitcher, they can take a look in LF to find one playing there.

As many have alluded to, the transactions are ridiculous. Besides the ridiculous signing/releasing of new stars, I'm seeing stars being traded for next to nothing. There is no rhyme or reason to trading either. Contenders don't try to pick up help and teams out of the race don't unload vets for prospects. Contracts also seem to have absolutely no relevance either as guys in their final year don't get traded and are just as hard to trade to contenders for "contract reasons". I haven't even mentioned how ridiculous the trading interface is without them giving you an idea of what a player is worth. Oh, and take a look at EVERY 1B in the league after 10 years. They all are rated like Derrek Lee defensively.

I can go on and on but I think most of you know what problems are coming up. The game took a huge step back in those areas from what 6.51 had. I'll admit 6.51 wasn't perfect, but the AI was reasonable enough to play and enjoy. I haven't even gotten that into the game which is scary. I can't imagine what else is lurking.

My thoughts are that the developers simply took a wrong move. They got in bed with a few of the board regulars who wanted these crazy setups and leagues and didn't listen to the majority of us who just want better AI and gameplay. I simply don't comprehend how setting up a league in Antartica took precedent over ensuring that a signed free agent isn't released the next day. I feel like I'm playing a game of Risk, not baseball.

I feel bad for completely trashing the game, but some of these things need to be said. If there is any lesson to be gained from this, focus your time on the AI. Hire a baseball guru for christ sake who can tell you what the logic should be. Sitting there adding the proper population of all the cities in Uganda just doesn't seem like the things that this game should be working on. Next year will be the first year in forever that I don't drop my money down on OOTP. I learned my lesson.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well new here and came from a link on the OOTP boards. I do have to admit that many of your assesments are dead on and I was hoping I wasn't the only one going crazy thinking that this game.....well....kind of sucks. Of course any mention of that on the OOTP boards means being chased away by a couple individuals who are either a) on the payroll b) haven't played the game yet or c) playing a completely different version than the rest of us.

It's a nice forum and all, but those that do chase away individuals with legitimate complaints somewhat make it difficult for the game to improve in anyway. I'd argue that it could be a reason why this version is so bad. I'm also failing to see the correlation between sitting in your parent's basement and thinking the games roster management AI is flawed. I guess it's the next logical step after trying to encite some obscure 1940's reference where a team may have signed a star and released him weeks later and how Marcus was a genius for putting it into the game.

Either way you look at it, this game is worse than 6.51 on a number of levels. The in-game AI is flawed and they took out a lot of the functionality and control. Little things like warming up a reliever, telling a runner to stay/hold, or being able to set some strategy without going through the entire 7 pitch at-bat were important. I can deal with that, but the in-game management is poor as well. I'm seeing stars being pinch hit for by bench guys late for no reason. I would get into the bullpen management, but I honestly could write about that for days. All I know is that my last game so the starter go 4, 4 relievers go a 1/3 (including the closer) and the 5th have to finish out the entire game. I guess if they need another pitcher, they can take a look in LF to find one playing there.

As many have alluded to, the transactions are ridiculous. Besides the ridiculous signing/releasing of new stars, I'm seeing stars being traded for next to nothing. There is no rhyme or reason to trading either. Contenders don't try to pick up help and teams out of the race don't unload vets for prospects. Contracts also seem to have absolutely no relevance either as guys in their final year don't get traded and are just as hard to trade to contenders for "contract reasons". I haven't even mentioned how ridiculous the trading interface is without them giving you an idea of what a player is worth. Oh, and take a look at EVERY 1B in the league after 10 years. They all are rated like Derrek Lee defensively.

I can go on and on but I think most of you know what problems are coming up. The game took a huge step back in those areas from what 6.51 had. I'll admit 6.51 wasn't perfect, but the AI was reasonable enough to play and enjoy. I haven't even gotten that into the game which is scary. I can't imagine what else is lurking.

My thoughts are that the developers simply took a wrong move. They got in bed with a few of the board regulars who wanted these crazy setups and leagues and didn't listen to the majority of us who just want better AI and gameplay. I simply don't comprehend how setting up a league in Antartica took precedent over ensuring that a signed free agent isn't released the next day. I feel like I'm playing a game of Risk, not baseball.

I feel bad for completely trashing the game, but some of these things need to be said. If there is any lesson to be gained from this, focus your time on the AI. Hire a baseball guru for christ sake who can tell you what the logic should be. Sitting there adding the proper population of all the cities in Uganda just doesn't seem like the things that this game should be working on. Next year will be the first year in forever that I don't drop my money down on OOTP. I learned my lesson.

Now there's an exemplary first post. Kudos and well put.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Isn't the point in all of these solo games to do things to make the AI more competitive (hence, house rules)? In playing OOTP5, I have no problem taking out waivers (don't remember if 40man is there) and turning on arbitration and refuse to go to minors. Less micromanagement for me and less the AI can screw up further.

Then why have them in there? I'm tired of having to slider games, hence I'm not much of a console sports game player much anymore.

With text sims, I'm tired of turning things off because it's a broken system. I was really hoping the waivers issues were fixed with a new engine and all. I like using them in 6.5 because it adds another baseball element to the game. Do I pass on 5 star MR's that are on waivers? Yes, but if an AI team is going to demote someone and another team wants to take a chance on that player, I'm all for it.

What's next? Turn off park effects because it screws up pitching stats? Turn off trading because it's too easy? You get the point. I can deal with some stat anormalities, but things Troy has mentioned plus some things I've seen in the demo have me believing the game is in a worse state than 6.51a is. Instead of progressing, we're regressing as far as game and team management AI is concerned... and well, that concerns me as an avid ootp player.

Unfortunetly, I can't see long term issues with the demo, so hopefully those who have purchased the game will post in the technical support forum over at the ootp forums.

I also find it annoying some people from the ootp camp think this thread is about basing Markus or SI. Most people here at FOFC are to the point kind of posters when it comes to any games that are discussed at length, especially when it comes to text sims. It's not just ootp, it's fof, tcy, baseball mogul, puresim, tcb, bbcf, and many others. We post in frustration, because we want the game to succeed. At least 99.9% of us do.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Well new here and came from a link on the OOTP boards. I do have to admit that many of your assesments are dead on and I was hoping I wasn't the only one going crazy thinking that this game.....well....kind of sucks. Of course any mention of that on the OOTP boards means being chased away by a couple individuals who are either a) on the payroll b) haven't played the game yet or c) playing a completely different version than the rest of us.

It's a nice forum and all, but those that do chase away individuals with legitimate complaints somewhat make it difficult for the game to improve in anyway. I'd argue that it could be a reason why this version is so bad. I'm also failing to see the correlation between sitting in your parent's basement and thinking the games roster management AI is flawed. I guess it's the next logical step after trying to encite some obscure 1940's reference where a team may have signed a star and released him weeks later and how Marcus was a genius for putting it into the game.

Either way you look at it, this game is worse than 6.51 on a number of levels. The in-game AI is flawed and they took out a lot of the functionality and control. Little things like warming up a reliever, telling a runner to stay/hold, or being able to set some strategy without going through the entire 7 pitch at-bat were important. I can deal with that, but the in-game management is poor as well. I'm seeing stars being pinch hit for by bench guys late for no reason. I would get into the bullpen management, but I honestly could write about that for days. All I know is that my last game so the starter go 4, 4 relievers go a 1/3 (including the closer) and the 5th have to finish out the entire game. I guess if they need another pitcher, they can take a look in LF to find one playing there.

As many have alluded to, the transactions are ridiculous. Besides the ridiculous signing/releasing of new stars, I'm seeing stars being traded for next to nothing. There is no rhyme or reason to trading either. Contenders don't try to pick up help and teams out of the race don't unload vets for prospects. Contracts also seem to have absolutely no relevance either as guys in their final year don't get traded and are just as hard to trade to contenders for "contract reasons". I haven't even mentioned how ridiculous the trading interface is without them giving you an idea of what a player is worth. Oh, and take a look at EVERY 1B in the league after 10 years. They all are rated like Derrek Lee defensively.

I can go on and on but I think most of you know what problems are coming up. The game took a huge step back in those areas from what 6.51 had. I'll admit 6.51 wasn't perfect, but the AI was reasonable enough to play and enjoy. I haven't even gotten that into the game which is scary. I can't imagine what else is lurking.

My thoughts are that the developers simply took a wrong move. They got in bed with a few of the board regulars who wanted these crazy setups and leagues and didn't listen to the majority of us who just want better AI and gameplay. I simply don't comprehend how setting up a league in Antartica took precedent over ensuring that a signed free agent isn't released the next day. I feel like I'm playing a game of Risk, not baseball.

I feel bad for completely trashing the game, but some of these things need to be said. If there is any lesson to be gained from this, focus your time on the AI. Hire a baseball guru for christ sake who can tell you what the logic should be. Sitting there adding the proper population of all the cities in Uganda just doesn't seem like the things that this game should be working on. Next year will be the first year in forever that I don't drop my money down on OOTP. I learned my lesson.

Mostly the same train of thought as I have, well put indeed.

Which brings me to a post battis or something similar to that username posted over at the ootp forums (I believe he is a beta tester and is quite pleasant when user's post about issues) - he said he wished Markus would have waited until September for the release and had more time to fix issues with the game.

[Crapshoot]

Todd - there's no "OOTP" camp - the message board,partly because of the OT, has lent itself recently to a general "fanboys" environment. There's plenty of us who are/were primarily OOTP board posters who got tired of the boards and attitudes there. That being said, I will point that I think Marc Duffy is a huge step up from Kuffrey's usual support - he seems to be actively looking at concerns and reporting back, and I have hopes for that reason that the game will be "fixed." My big worry is that this version tried to serve too many different "groups" per se, and will end up satisfying no one. One of the reasons FM is magnificent is that the AI and everything can be written for one, fixed game environment - they don't have to adjust for different Eras, to take one common example.

[Buccaneer]

Mizzo, I agree with what you are saying and I would answer the question, "why have them in there" as "they shouldn't if they don't work and if they do work, does it anything to the game?". In all text sims there are stuff not added (like expansion and custom scheduling in FOF) for various reasons. You can't model everything and what you do model, make it works.

My thoughts are that the developers simply took a wrong move. They got in bed with a few of the board regulars who wanted these crazy setups and leagues and didn't listen to the majority of us who just want better AI and gameplay. I simply don't comprehend how setting up a league in Antartica took precedent over ensuring that a signed free agent isn't released the next day. I feel like I'm playing a game of Risk, not baseball.

That's the issue I took on day one when Duffy made the announcement/screenshot thread here. He (and SI) argued that the direction was more international sales (ala CM/FM) since everything shouldn't be so US-centric. I had always thought that a small minority would want to focus on non-MLB leagues but I didn't figure that it would be at the expense of having a solid MLB league.