2012 NFL Offseason thread

[Ksyrup]

@AdamSchefter: Broderick Bunkley to Saints: 5 yrs, $25m with $9m fully grntd.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Rizon

The Dolphins and Jags weren't willing to give up more than 4th rounder? I'd have thought the Phins would toss in the tomb of Flipper or something, plus some 1st rounders.

What I love is that Tebow was a first round pick 2 years ago.
He goes 8-6 with 29 TDs, 9 INTs, 2400 yards passing and 900 yards rushing over 23 total games.
He then gets traded for a 4th rounder.

Meanwhile, Matt Flynn was a 7th round pick 4 years ago.
He goes 1-1 with 10 TDs, 5 INTs, 1000 yards passing and 19 yards rushing over 34 total games.
He gets signed for a minimum of $6.5 million per year.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

The Saints still have to sign Brees right?

Hes franchised this year so the technically don't have to.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

If Brees doesn't get the extension he's looking for I bet he stays home this season and watches with Payton and the rest of his suspended teammates.

So, if the Saints aren't willing to pay him then they best be on the phone with somebody who will so they don't lose their franchise QB next season for nothing.

He may but Im thinking it gets worked out. Brees really isnt the youngest QB anymore and taking a year off at this point probably wouldnt be the smartest for him financially or legacy wise.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

What I love is that Tebow was a first round pick 2 years ago.
He goes 8-6 with 29 TDs, 9 INTs, 2400 yards passing and 900 yards rushing over 23 total games.
He then gets traded for a 4th rounder.

Meanwhile, Matt Flynn was a 7th round pick 4 years ago.
He goes 1-1 with 10 TDs, 5 INTs, 1000 yards passing and 19 yards rushing over 34 total games.
He gets signed for a minimum of $6.5 million per year.

Scary part is the Flynn contract is probably quite a bit lower than it would have been due to Kolb's dismal season.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Second time in two days this has been mentioned. Maybe we should put it in the thread title, a la Generalissimo Franco, i.e. "Drew Brees is STILL franchised".

Yes but he won't sign the franchise tender after what happened in San Diego or so I thought.

[stevew]

Exclusive franchised as well. He can't even entertain offers from another team(at the cost of two first rounders).

[Logan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Exclusive franchised as well. He can't even entertain offers from another team(at the cost of two first rounders).

Niners: "Sold!"

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Exclusive franchised as well. He can't even entertain offers from another team(at the cost of two first rounders).

I would think there are plenty of franchises that would give up 2 first rounders for Brees

[Ksyrup]

Decent comp, but off in magnitude by like a hundred thousand percent.

Buster Olney ‏ @Buster_ESPN
Been trying to come up with BB comp to Tebow/Jets deal, where you knew it was a bad idea immediately. Closest, perhaps: CHC/Milton Bradley

[stevew]

There are plenty of franchises that would give up 2 #1s. To clarify my wording, another team can't attempt to sign Brees at the cost of 2 #1s. He plays for NO or nobody.

[BlackJack]

Jets are like a dog that is easily distracted by and ends up chasing shiny things, only to end up covered in their own shit.

[Ksyrup]

Who midget-wrestled the twitter account away from Dan Snyder?!

@Redskins: Can't imagine a more awkward fit than Tim Tebow going to the New York Jets...Just 2 cents.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He may but Im thinking it gets worked out. Brees really isnt the youngest QB anymore and taking a year off at this point probably wouldnt be the smartest for him financially or legacy wise.

Really, worked out just fine for an older guy who sat out due to a serious neck injury very recently...no?

Brees should be advised by his handlers to not play this season without his extension for a team that is going to be severely hampered on defense for at least a quarter of the season (purely speculation, obviously). Seriously, what does he have to gain by playing and risking injury at his age when he's one of the top QBs in the league?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

What I love is that Tebow was a first round pick 2 years ago.
He goes 8-6 with 29 TDs, 9 INTs, 2400 yards passing and 900 yards rushing over 23 total games.
He then gets traded for a 4th rounder.

Meanwhile, Matt Flynn was a 7th round pick 4 years ago.
He goes 1-1 with 10 TDs, 5 INTs, 1000 yards passing and 19 yards rushing over 34 total games.
He gets signed for a minimum of $6.5 million per year.

Scouting makes a big difference. The Tebow phenomenon is also a factor, and probably a huge negative unless you're Jacksonville or Tampa Bay and need positive, localized buzz.

Here's what I have for stats:

Tebow: 9-7 in 16 starts, 6 late 4Q comebacks, 186-401 (46.4%) passing, 7.04 ypa, 19 TD, 10 Int, 13 Fumbles.

Flynn: 1-2 in 2 starts (he deserves a loss in relief from last year), 1 late comeback, 82-131 (62.6%) passing, 7.75 ypa, 9 TD, 4 Int, 3 Fumbles.

I've done some work analyzing late comebacks (on which much of the Tebow fame is based) and they are fairly random. Generally, if you're an NFL quarterback, you are immune to magic. If you're good, you don't get as many opportunities to come back late, as well.

The big knock on Tebow is that accuracy. The big knock on Flynn is inexperience, and that his gaudy numbers were built against bad pass defenses.

I'm surprised they couldn't get more than a fourth, too, because I figured one of the Florida teams would get caught up in the emotion. But you can see the Tebow phenomenon changes a franchise - everyone has an opinion.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BlackJack

Jets are like a dog that is easily distracted by and ends up chasing shiny things, only to end up covered in their own shit.

haha, this is good.

Not that I think this is the worst deal in the world for the Jets. They gave up a few late round picks for a guy that can push Sanchez and possibly become a player that can be as effective in this offense as Sanchez without being a complete pussy.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Scouting makes a big difference. The Tebow phenomenon is also a factor, and probably a huge negative unless you're Jacksonville or Tampa Bay and need positive, localized buzz.

Here's what I have for stats:

Tebow: 9-7 in 16 starts, 6 late 4Q comebacks, 186-401 (46.4%) passing, 7.04 ypa, 19 TD, 10 Int, 13 Fumbles.

Flynn: 1-2 in 2 starts (he deserves a loss in relief from last year), 1 late comeback, 82-131 (62.6%) passing, 7.75 ypa, 9 TD, 4 Int, 3 Fumbles.

I've done some work analyzing late comebacks (on which much of the Tebow fame is based) and they are fairly random. Generally, if you're an NFL quarterback, you are immune to magic. If you're good, you don't get as many opportunities to come back late, as well.

The big knock on Tebow is that accuracy. The big knock on Flynn is inexperience, and that his gaudy numbers were built against bad pass defenses.

I'm surprised they couldn't get more than a fourth, too, because I figured one of the Florida teams would get caught up in the emotion. But you can see the Tebow phenomenon changes a franchise - everyone has an opinion.

Wouldn't Tebow's ability to run also increase his value?

[Easy Mac]

Does anyone else think the Jets got Tebow just to keep him away from New England?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Seriously, what does he have to gain by playing and risking injury at his age when he's one of the top QBs in the league?

Umm, around 20 million dollars. Being a good teammate. Building on his Hall of Fame career???

[spleen1015]

Drew Brees ‏ @drewbrees

I am speechless. Sean Payton is a great man, coach, and mentor. The best there is. I need to hear an explanation for this punishment

[Autumn]

Yeah, but other than that.

[Ksyrup]

The cover-up is always worse than the crime. Payton should have called Bruce Pearl for pointers.

[Crapshoot]

What the heck does suspending the GM actually mean? I mean, this isn't baseball with the majors / minors bit or active transactions; a GM's hand is pretty much tied once the season begins.

[fantom1979]

I do like how a team that is 32-22 with two AFC Championship appearances over the last 3 years is not given the benefit of the doubt at all because of the collapse they had at the end of last year. 90% of the teams in the league would like to be where the Jets have been the last couple of seasons. People are talking about this Tebow trade like they were talking about the Carson Palmer trade, and to me they aren't even in the same ballpark of stupidity.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Does anyone else think the Jets got Tebow just to keep him away from New England?

thats sounds stupid enough to believe the Jets would do it

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Wouldn't Tebow's ability to run also increase his value?

That's a good question. Running quarterbacks are much more volatile than passing quarterbacks. You also have a greater risk of injury.

And then, let's say you are winning consistently around Tebow. Then you have the best in the business working on a way to beat you. Once there's a blueprint out, Tebow's lack of accuracy becomes a much bigger problem, because he can't adjust.

Let's not forget the Broncos only scored 19.9 points per game when Tebow started. That's well below the NFL average. If you're truly going to believe in Tebow, you have to believe in the fourth-quarter magic. And history would indicate he'd be the only one who could successfully tank the first 3 1/2 quarters and then magically win games.

To build a team around Tebow, you need to believe he can develop accuracy with just a little more experience. Then his running ability becomes a plus in an overall evaluation.

[Ksyrup]

Jason La Canfora ‏ @JasonLaCanfora

Commish says he has not talked to Sean Payton today. On player discipline, says talking to NFLPA and over 2 dozen players.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Drew Brees ‏ @drewbrees

I am speechless. Sean Payton is a great man, coach, and mentor. The best there is. I need to hear an explanation for this punishment

Money.

The NFL is being sued over head injuries.

The old defense was that the NFL rewards those who tackle properly, and suspends those who try and knock someone out.

Now we have a case where a team is deliberately trying to knock players out. In fact, they're violating the salary cap to do so.

If the NFL didn't come down as hard as it could on the Saints, those lawsuits would be slam dunks.

I'm only surprised they didn't lose a first-round pick. I thought that was a given.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I'm only surprised they didn't lose a first-round pick. I thought that was a given.

I would bet that if the Pats didn't already have theirs this year it would be gone.

[Ksyrup]

Bruce Feldman ‏ @BFeldmanCBS
Roger Goodell to NFL Network on Saints story: "Clearly we were lied to."

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I'm only surprised they didn't lose a first-round pick. I thought that was a given.

I am sure they would of if they hadnt traded this years for Ingram last year. I am sure they thought the 2 2nds = the late 1st of the Saints.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He doesnt have much choice. And really I dont see it as ending the Saints season. Brees knows the offense that Payton taught him. If they were trying to teach an entire new offense the system I would be worried but Brees is just like Peyton Manning with the Colts in that he could be the offensive coordinator of that team.

Payton is a hell of a coach but these players they have know the system so well it shouldnt cause them to suddenly not remember what they are doing.

I think you might be underestimating the impact Payton has in managing the offense. I'm sure Brees and the rest of the veterans can run the plays that are called, but someone has to call the right play in the right situation or settle defense up. Payton is probably one of the best and most creative playcallers in the league, so I would expect his loss to impact the team more than you're suggesting.

[BlackJack]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

I do like how a team that is 32-22 with two AFC Championship appearances over the last 3 years is not given the benefit of the doubt at all because of the collapse they had at the end of last year. 90% of the teams in the league would like to be where the Jets have been the last couple of seasons. People are talking about this Tebow trade like they were talking about the Carson Palmer trade, and to me they aren't even in the same ballpark of stupidity.

You don't get it. It's a PR move to sell tickets, jerseys and advertising. They've just completely undermined their incumbent, emotionally fragile qb, who they just gave an extension to, twice in the last week. It's not a football move, it's an owner who likes attention.

[stevew]

I figure Tebow will craft an offseason workout regimen that involves him baptizing the bastard children of Cromrartie and Holmes. That should keep his elbow strong.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BlackJack

You don't get it. It's a PR move to sell tickets, jerseys and advertising. They've just completely undermined their incumbent, emotionally fragile qb, who they just gave an extension to, twice in the last week. It's not a football move, it's an owner who likes attention.

Why would you tell him he doesnt get it? You dont know the exact reasons the trade was done. Seems like a football move to me. A starter who has underachieved so they are bringing in a backup that has proved he can win tight games and possibly challenge Sanchez. Again, I dont see why this is such a awful trade for the Jets. They didnt give up anything higher than a 4th round pick.

[Logan]

Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter

Filed to ESPN (1): Denver and Jets have encountered hangup in language in Tim Tebow's contract that could nullify trade.

[BlackJack]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Why would you tell him he doesnt get it? You dont know the exact reasons the trade was done. Seems like a football move to me. A starter who has underachieved so they are bringing in a backup that has proved he can win tight games and possibly challenge Sanchez. Again, I dont see why this is such a awful trade for the Jets. They didnt give up anything higher than a 4th round pick.

It's how the jets operate. amateur hour

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by BlackJack

You don't get it.

I get it fine.

Originally Posted by BlackJack

It's a PR move to sell tickets, jerseys and advertising. It's not a football move, it's an owner who likes attention.

The Jets sold out every home game over the last 30 years. I am sure the Jets are thrilled to increase advertising and jersey money for a 4th and 6th round pick.

Originally Posted by BlackJack

They've just completely undermined their incumbent, emotionally fragile qb, who they just gave an extension to, twice in the last week.

I don't think you can blame the Jets for trying to improve at the QB position by attempting to get one of the best players at that position over the last decade. Once they decided they could not/would not get Manning, they did the next best thing, resign their incumbent QB (instead of going after other medicore QBs such as Alex Smith, Chad Henne, or Rex Grossman).

Now they have traded for a guy that can provide them a Wildcat option that they did not have last year, but historically under Rex Ryan have run before with Brad Smith. Cam Cameron is also their new offensive coordinator, who brought the Wildcat to the Dolphins. You seem to be thinking that Tebow was brought in to complete with Sanchez, while I think the Jets brought him in to replace Brad Smith/Leon Washington.

[Ksyrup]

@AdamSchefter: If the Tebow trade to Jets falls apart, St. Louis could wind up getting back into play. Sides sorting through details.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by BlackJack

It's how the jets operate. amateur hour

I repeat. 32-22 over the last 3 years. How many teams have done better? Just because you don't like the Jets, doesn't mean that what they have done hasn't worked.

[Ksyrup]

Michael Lombardi ‏ @michaelombardi
Ben Jarvis Green Ellis to the Bengals deal being fiinalized

[Logan]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

I repeat. 32-22 over the last 3 years. How many teams have done better? Just because you don't like the Jets, doesn't mean that what they have done hasn't worked.

32-22 could have been better. They have recently went from having one of the best offensive lines in football to being average. They went from having one of the best overall defenses in the league to being unable to rush the passer and having massive holes to fill at LB and S.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Mark Sanchez seen running away from Tebow's contract with pen, having scrawled "CAN'T PLAY 4 JETZ" under subsection 3.16

Greg Wyshynski

[Apathetic Lurker]

There is one team in the NFL I really despise with an unholy passion. That is the Jets. I sort of like Tebow.....I might just wash my hands of the NFL whatsoever.

Or learn to let my hatred encompass Tebow.

On a positive note, Mark Anderson just signed with the Bills. So they get both of the top two pass rush FA's this year...Scary.....Wannstadt must be salivating.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by Logan

32-22 could have been better. They have recently went from having one of the best offensive lines in football to being average. They went from having one of the best overall defenses in the league to being unable to rush the passer and having massive holes to fill at LB and S.

Jets were 5th in the league in yards allowed and 5th in yards allowed per play. The Jets finished a not so great 18th in sacks (which is exactly where they finished in 2009 when they had the best defense in the NFL). I think the demise of the defense was greatly overstated.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I am sure they would of if they hadnt traded this years for Ingram last year. I am sure they thought the 2 2nds = the late 1st of the Saints.

I was thinking one first for every year they could document this activity.

I'm sure they're not done. We also have to consider that every retired player who faced the Saints during this time period may have legal and criminal complaints.

I would not be surprised if Williams and/or a few Saints' defenders are looking at jail time or lengthy probation. This is far from over.

[bhlloy]

I think it's as good a move by the Jets as it would be for any team without a top 10 passer, and I think there's no way they give Sanchez that extension and then go behind his back and sign competition 2 weeks later. Which leads me to believe that he's probably on board with it and I agree with whoever said above that Tebow will not be his direct competiton. At least not to begin with.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I would not be surprised if Williams and/or a few Saints' defenders are looking at jail time or lengthy probation. This is far from over.

I must have obviously missed that game that wasn't on TV which allowed Saints players to not only commit obvious outrageous penalties unnoticed until recently, but hits that could be classified as assault. Shame that all NFL games aren't televised.

[DeToxRox]

What will Sean Payton do without access to the teams drug room now?

[stevew]

Sanchez's extension was just a modified cap out of the last two years of his rookie contract.

Behind the Mark Sanchez Extension

The real reason behind the contract was to defer the cap charges that Mark was expected to carry in 2012. Sanchez originally was scheduled to count for $14.25 million against the cap in 2012 and $8 million in 2013 provided he earned no escalators, a total of $22.25 million in cap dollars. Under the new deal Sanchez’ 2012 figure should fall to $7.85 million. It could be slightly lower if the report of $20.5 million in full guarantees is correct. For that report to be correct the Jets would have had to guarantee $1 million of Sanchez' workout bonuses in 2012 and 2013. The total cap charge for the two years will be $20.706 million, close to $2 million less than he was set to receive on his prior contract.

The backend of the contract means little. The dead money in 2014 should be between $4.8 and $5.4 million, not much different than the $5 million dead charge the Jets would have incurred had they cut him today. If he plays really well the average cap charges of about $14.2 million will put him somewhere near the Tony Romo class. If he fails to play well he will be cut.