NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[BishopMVP]

My fun Okafor fact from friends at UConn - he called the team managers peasants and refused to make eye contact with them.

[MrBug708]

Based on everything that I've ever heard (or thought I knew), that doesnt seem like Okafor

[jbergey22]

Some of you are putting a lot of stock in the Summer League. Thabeet is going to be a fine player. He athletic, tall, has good work ethic. The Summer League in like the NBA All Star game in which it isnt always in the best interest for the players to get the bigs properly involved.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Some of you are putting a lot of stock in the Summer League. Thabeet is going to be a fine player. He athletic, tall, has good work ethic. The Summer League in like the NBA All Star game in which it isnt always in the best interest for the players to get the bigs properly involved.

I'm basing it more on what I saw of him in college. The guy was invisible far too often, which should not happen at that level if you have his height and physical skills.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'm basing it more on what I saw of him in college. The guy was invisible far too often, which should not happen at that level if you have his height and physical skills.

He struggled against Pitt because they would push him around. Cant say other than them I really seen him disappear all that much last year atleast. His offensive game is a work in progress as he is very limited right now as he can basically only dunk and get fouled. On defense however he was the only reason UConn played the defense they did last year. Who knows, he could be a big bust but I see way too much I like about him to really believe that. I thought the Camby comparison from above was spot on. Camby tends to disappear at times also but other times is the most dominant player on the court because of his defense.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Bobcats about to send Emeka Okafor to Hornets for Tyson Chandler - NBA - SI.com

Okafor for Chandler?

What a terrible trade....

[Warhammer]

The travesty about Memphis taking Thabeet, is that I think when all is said and done Marc Gasol is going to go down as a better C. They had no need for Thabeet, and opted to go elsewhere.

I would have taken Tyreke Evans and paired him with OJ Mayo in the backcourt.

[Warhammer]

Also, word is out of practice that Thabeet has not been bringing it in practice, unlike Carrol or Young.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Based on everything that I've ever heard (or thought I knew), that doesnt seem like Okafor

It struck me as real odd too, so maybe he was joking and something got lost in the game of telephone on its way to me, but they swear by that one and how Ben Gordon showed up for the first time all semester late to the final, handed in his test 5 minutes later and walked out.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He struggled against Pitt because they would push him around. Can't say other than them I really seen him disappear all that much last year at least. His offensive game is a work in progress as he is very limited right now as he can basically only dunk and get fouled. On defense however he was the only reason UConn played the defense they did last year. Who knows, he could be a big bust but I see way too much I like about him to really believe that. I thought the Camby comparison from above was spot on. Camby tends to disappear at times also but other times is the most dominant player on the court because of his defense.

If Dejuan Blair was able to push him around though, how is he going to fare against any strong NBA big man? I'm also not sure how accurate or flattering the Camby comparison is. Camby was much more advanced but also much smaller coming out of college, and he's also a hugely overrated defender. He's a great help defender and fantastic at racking up the blocks/steals for fantasy purposes, but from what I've heard he's a pretty poor on-ball defender and often leaves his man too early trying to get those blocks/steals. Thabeet won't be able to sit under the rim like he did in college and alter penetrating guards shots, he'll have to body up against guys bigger and stronger (ok, other than Shaq and D-Howard maybe not stronger) than Dejuan Blair and move over to get in position for blocks. Maybe he will pick up the art of avoiding constant fouls within 2-3 years, but I don't ever see him having the attitude required to intimidate man to man.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

.If Dejuan Blair was able to push him around though, how is he going to fare against any strong NBA big man? I'm also not sure how accurate or flattering the Camby comparison is. Camby was much more advanced but also much smaller coming out of college, and he's also a hugely overrated defender. He's a great help defender and fantastic at racking up the blocks/steals for fantasy purposes, but from what I've heard he's a pretty poor on-ball defender and often leaves his man too early trying to get those blocks/steals. Thabeet won't be able to sit under the rim like he did in college and alter penetrating guards shots, he'll have to body up against guys bigger and stronger (ok, other than Shaq and D-Howard maybe not stronger) than Dejuan Blair and move over to get in position for blocks. Maybe he will pick up the art of avoiding constant fouls within 2-3 years, but I don't ever see him having the attitude required to intimidate man to man.

Like a lot of players coming out of college or high schoolI would expect Thabeet to get stronger and figure out his niche. Camby is very overated as an on ball defender however he has still been All-NBA 1st or 2nd team defense 4 out of the past 5 years. If Dikembe Mutumbo could be a defensive and rebounding force in the post I see no reason Thabeet cant.

[larnott]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Horrid trade for Charlotte.

Charlotte sheds a terrible contract. Yes, they are in horrible financial shape, but this is a deal that makes great sense for Charlotte even if they didn't have cash issues (which they do). Okafor is overrated & overpaid.

The real WTF is what New Orleans is thinking, as this is a complete change in philosophy for them.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larnott

Charlotte sheds a terrible contract. Yes, they are in horrible financial shape, but this is a deal that makes great sense for Charlotte even if they didn't have cash issues (which they do). Okafor is overrated & overpaid.

The real WTF is what New Orleans is thinking, as this is a complete change in philosophy for them.

I don't know about that. I think Okafor is a bit underated. His stats aren't great but Charlotte didn't run their offense around him at all. He'll be able to pick and roll with Paul and is an upgrade over Chandler.

His contract isn't that bad either. The next 2 years are lower amounts so it won't hit them with the cap.

I'm more confused at what Charlotte is doing. Their biggest problem last year was scoring and they just downgraded signifigantly in this deal.

[Logan]

I'm just wondering why NO went from getting rid of Chandler for a couple expiring contracts to a massive, overvalued one. I know the fans went kinda nuts when that deal was announced, but this seems like overkill.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know about that. I think Okafor is a bit underated. His stats aren't great but Charlotte didn't run their offense around him at all. He'll be able to pick and roll with Paul and is an upgrade over Chandler.

Yeah, look, Okafor isn't a great player but he's good -- he gives you double-double numbers and played all 82 games the last couple of years. Plus, it saves the Hornets a little bit of money in the short-term. It costs them long-term, but contrary to the rantings of almost every clueless idiot in the national media, the Hornets are not broke and not hanging by a thread financially. They are not, and never have been, in fire-sale mode, and have repeatedly demonstrated (sometimes unwisely) that they will overpay for a guy if they think he can produce. They just didn't want to pay 12 million to somebody with a chronic degenerative condition.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm just wondering why NO went from getting rid of Chandler for a couple expiring contracts to a massive, overvalued one. I know the fans went kinda nuts when that deal was announced, but this seems like overkill.

My theory is that they doubted they'd have much luck in the free agency market. New Orleans isn't going to have the lure of a Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, or Miami. So they probably figure that the top tier free agents are just not attainable.

So instead of waiting for that, they make a trade for a guy they think can be an All-Star playing alongside Chris Paul (who they can't guarantee will stay with them in the long term). If Okafor gels well with Paul, they have a pretty solid team. I just don't know what their other options would have been to add a potential star in the coming years to play alongside Paul.

It's worth noting that the West isn't what it was. The Lakers got worse this offseason and can't stop quick PGs like Paul. The Spurs did improve but have some injury and age concerns. Outside of that, it's a pretty open field. If this move can add 5 wins to the team in the regular season (which isn't improbable considering they won 49 with Chandler out half the season), they become the 2nd best record in the West.

It's a risky move, but they are taking a shot at it all. I think it's smart in a small market to do that. Especially in a year when most teams are cutting back or saving up for 2010 free agency class.

[MikeVic]

I like Okafor on the Hornets. Hopefully he can work well with Chris Paul, but if nothing else he'll be a consistent double-double centre with D, which seem to be hard to get.

[jbergey22]

Im not getting all the Okafor hate. His only weaknesses are free throw shooting and hes injury prone. Cant really figure out how New Orleans people think they are getting the worse of this deal.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im not getting all the Okafor hate. His only weaknesses are free throw shooting and hes injury prone. Cant really figure out how New Orleans people think they are getting the worse of this deal.

Not to mention that Larry Brown hated him and they didn't run the offense through him at all. I saw Charlotte in person a few times and it was crazy how little they used him. This is a guy who shot 56% from the field and should have been fed the ball consistently against teams with weak inside players. I will bet he averages over 18 points a game in New Orleans this year. He's one of the few guys I've seen in person over the years that I was really impressed by and hadn't heard much buzz about in the national media.

The only real knock I've heard on him is his desire. Supposed to be a real nice guy but doesn't have a killer instinct.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Cant really figure out how New Orleans people think they are getting the worse of this deal.

We do? The mood is pretty ecstatic on the Hornets' main message board, with most feelings ranging from cautious optimism to the feeling that we just robbed Charlotte blind.

I'm pretty happy myself. It's definitely a financial commitment and it is a very large contract, but we actually save a little money during the two years we're in luxury tax danger, and the guy produces. I know he's not a superstar, but we have a superstar already. Now we need some toughness, productivity, and durability in our frontcourt. My one concern is his back, but he's been very durable of late.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

We do? The mood is pretty ecstatic on the Hornets' main message board, with most feelings ranging from cautious optimism to the feeling that we just robbed Charlotte blind.

I'm pretty happy myself. It's definitely a financial commitment and it is a very large contract, but we actually save a little money during the two years we're in luxury tax danger, and the guy produces. I know he's not a superstar, but we have a superstar already. Now we need some toughness, productivity, and durability in our frontcourt. My one concern is his back, but he's been very durable of late.

It was more in reference to the previous posts on this forum. People thinking it was a good deal for Charlotte which I didnt understand at all. New Orleans got a good player to fit in nicely with Paul and West.

[Fidatelo]

I'm not sure why, but I have a hard time distinguishing between the following teams: Charlotte, New Orleans, and Memphis. You could rearrange all the players on those three teams and I wouldn't know the difference.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'm not sure why, but I have a hard time distinguishing between the following teams: Charlotte, New Orleans, and Memphis. You could rearrange all the players on those three teams and I wouldn't know the difference.

Really, point out the player on Charlotte or Memphis who is one of the 5 best players in the league.

[Fidatelo]

I understand who Chris Paul is, I just couldn't tell you which of those teams he plays for. I'm not slamming the teams, I don't even understand why I have the confusion. I think its because they've all moved around recently? I don't know. I was simply sharing a thought.

[sterlingice]

I don't suppose anyone can clue me in to what Charlotte was thinking with this deal. It's been a couple of days and I still can't figure it out

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I don't suppose anyone can clue me in to what Charlotte was thinking with this deal. It's been a couple of days and I still can't figure it out

SI

Chandler has a shorter contract. I'm thinking that Charlotte is, for whatever reason, trying to dump salaries long term. Maybe the owner wants to sell the team?

[stevew]

Charlotte is selling. Owner supposedly taking a bath on the team.

[albionmoonlight]

Is Charlotte just not a pro-basketball city?

[stevew]

eh-I dunno. First of all they chose a dumb mascot and horrible colors. I think that pretty much sunk them right there.

Then they didn't draft particularly well. They were also pretty cheap with their payroll, although I suppose they really had nobody to pay.

It's basically the problem that happens when you never get a franchise player.

I think Jordan made some player decisions too, he's really a dumbass at those.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by stevew

they chose a dumb mascot and horrible colors. I think that pretty much sunk them right there.

Really?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I understand who Chris Paul is, I just couldn't tell you which of those teams he plays for.

I could narrow it down to two of the three myself, but I'd phone a friend to pick between Charlotte & New Orleans if that were a six figure question on Millionaire.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Is Charlotte just not a pro-basketball city?

Tough to tell. I mean they haven't had a real good player since they moved back or a good team for that matter. I mean if you were a huge basketball fan and lived in Charlotte, would you really be going to a lot of Bobcats games?

There is also something to be said about growing up with a team and having a history with them. I grew up a Bulls fan and I have an attachment to them. With the expansion teams, I think it's tough to build an attachment until a generation of kids has grown up with them in their city. Outside of football, is there any expansion team in the last 20 years who you would consider to have diehard fans that show up regardless of how good the team is?

[bhlloy]

It's really hard to pinpoint exactly where the Bobcats have gone wrong. Obviously they never made off with a marquee player in the draft but other than Morrison over Brandon Roy, it's hard to point out where they have really got it badly wrong otherwise. They missed out on Howard, Deron Williams and Chris Paul by a single pick each time. If anything their downfall has been drafting too much on production in college and not upside (May, Felton, Morrison)

I don't think the level of coaching has ever been there to get the most out of the players they did have, injuries have really screwed them and some of Jordan's decisions have been a little bizarre. But I would have expected them to get at least one playoff season in the East by now.

I hate the Okafor trade for the Bobcats. Way, way too little value for a guy that does what a bunch of playoff teams are looking for every year. I guess the injury history is a risk that you won't be able to move him halfway through the season, but still should have got a lot more for him.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Really?

Just my personal opinion, but their color scheme sucks. Looks like some CBA team. And then "Bobcats" is one of the worst nicknames in professional sports. I mean, if Pumpy owned a team and called them the Pumpycats, it'd be funny but still not a good nickname.

[k0ruptr]

lol, yea just the name Bobcats makes me not wanna watch.

[Big Fo]

iirc the Charlotte Hornets were pretty popular when they were good. The Bobcats could be a successful franchise if they had competent people running the show.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

lol, yea just the name Bobcats makes me not wanna watch.

Especially knowing the owner who founded the franchise was named Bob.

[Radii]

You guys are aware that the Bobcat is an actual animal, right? Also, check the alternatives:

The process tipped off with the aid of the Charlotte Regional Sports Commission, which netted over 1,250 team name suggestions in their “Help Name the Team” effort. Following focus groups with Charlotte-area residents and meetings with business and civic leaders, the team announced three nickname finalists in May – Charlotte Bobcats, Charlotte Dragons and Charlotte Flight.

From http://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/char...ts_061103.html

The Charlotte Flight, seriously?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Radii

You guys are aware that the Bobcat is an actual animal, right? Also, check the alternatives:



From BOBCATS: NBA Expansion Franchise To Be Named Charlotte Bobcats

The Charlotte Flight, seriously?

When Bobcats is the best that there is from the finalists, it shows they did a pretty bad job of getting it down to 3 choices.

[k0ruptr]

yea, we know that a bobcat is an actual animal, its also a horrible name for an NBA franchise. Those 3 are all horrible. I can't believe they couldn't come up with anything better.

[k0ruptr]

Dola, here is a winner quote from that article. LOL

Bobcats, indigenous to the Carolinas but infrequently seen because of their stealth and nocturnal habits, are fierce and swift. They attack with the aid of an expansive 10-foot leap, making them an ideal representative for Charlotte’s new NBA entry.

[Wolfpack]

Well, the seeds for the dismal failure that is the Bobcats were pretty much planted by George Shinn (maybe better to say "salt" actually). Even as the Hornets became playoff contenders, it was becoming obvious he was going to be a low-cost owner because he wasn't willing to keep Larry Johnson and Zo together. Then he had an affair blow up on him (not a good thing in a fairly conservative town like Charlotte) all the while trying to get Charlotte to build a new arena because the one they built just a few years before was already outdated because they opted for total seats over pricey seats. The Charlotte Coliseum held 24,000--there was a reason the Bugs lead in attendance all those years--but had precious few luxury boxes, which became all the rage in the 1990s. With the citizens in revolt over both the affair and the arena demands, Shinn eventually packed up and went to New Orleans. The bitterness from all that lingered over to the Bobcats, especially after the city decided to ignore the results of a vote by residents and built the new arena with taxpayer money anyway. The fact that Bob Johnson and Michael Jordan have effectively piloted the franchise into the ground since then is just icing.

[Neon_Chaos]

A Bobcat.

[RainMaker]

I actually kind of like the Charlotte Flight. Love it when team names match the region they are in. Minnesota Lakers, New Orleans Jazz, Milwaukee Brewers, Texas Rangers. Might not be the greatest, but it beats a generic animal name that's been used a gazillion times over.

[Neon_Chaos]

Lamar Odom re-signs with the Lakers - Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Whew.

Lakers fans, the wait is over.

[Groundhog]

"Infrequently seen" makes the Bobcat the perfect mascot for that franchise. I've personally never seen a single Bobcats game, which I only just realised now.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Lamar Odom re-signs with the Lakers - Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Whew.

Lakers fans, the wait is over.

Darn. Now Only Ron Artest's bad shot selection and fading defensively abilities might give the rest of the teams in the league a shot at the title.

[stevew]

Yeah. Flight or Pilots or aviators or something like that with that type of theme is way better than Bobcats. And knowing the owner was named BOB just makes it even dumber.

And the team is so irrelevant I didn't even realize Larry frickin Brown was the head coach.

You look at the roster. 4 to 5 years after expansion they still scream expansion team.
What an odd lot of castoffs and never was players. Wallace is a stathead fantasy type player. And Diaw is versitile. And then who the fuck is left that anyone gives a flying fuck about. Seriously.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Darn. Now Only Ron Artest's bad shot selection and fading defensively abilities might give the rest of the teams in the league a shot at the title.

The rest of the league can thank Houston for that

SI

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Darn. Now Only Ron Artest's bad shot selection and fading defensively abilities might give the rest of the teams in the league a shot at the title.

Don't forget hopes that Artest's weird behavior off the court might cause a distraction. A Bill Simmons column I just read had a pretty good one about Artest:

To Artest. Here's a classic case of someone hoodwinking the American public with a 10-year pattern of bizarre behavior that eventually immunized them to all future crazy Ron Artest stories and anecdotes, such as the fact that he's wearing No. 37 to honor Michael Jackson because it's the same number of weeks that "Thriller" led the charts (um, what?), or his recent revelation that he had been pining to play for the Lakers for two solid years. Artest told reporters that he wandered into the Lakers' locker room to express that desire to a showering Kobe Bryant -- right after L.A.'s bitter Game 6 thrashing in Boston in the 2008 Finals, no less -- adding, "Yeah, I walked in the shower. I'm not a homosexual or nothing like that, but Kobe had no clothes on."

These anecdotes just bounce off people now. Artest is a benevolent crazy. Or so we think. Being around this nuttiness every day is a little different from merely hearing about the nuttiness in secondhand anecdotes. I know for a fact he routinely broke plays on offense and is still a handful behind the scenes, and the Rockets buried every 2008-09 story that would have made this patently clear. For instance, Artest routinely walked around in his underwear in public places: the Rockets' team bus, hotels, you name it. People around the team barely flinched after a while. Before Game 7 of the Lakers series -- only the biggest game of the entire season -- they finally flinched.

Here's what happened: Artest missed the first two team buses (the ones for players, coaches and team personnel) from Houston's hotel to the Staples Center and barely made the third and final bus, which was reserved for business staff, sponsors and friends of the team. These stunned people watched Artest sprint to the bus right before it left, jump on and take one of the remaining seats ... yes, wearing only his underwear. Owner Leslie Alexander happened to be sitting on the bus and witnessed the whole thing. And you wonder why the Houston Rockets didn't make any effort whatsoever to bring back Artest.

(Note: If you want to make the "Kobe and Phil can keep him in check much like MJ and Phil kept Rodman in check" argument, just remember Rodman was still a world-class defender and rebounder when Chicago acquired him. Artest is neither. If anything, his athleticism is slipping and he can't defend quick small forwards anymore. So why even risk it? Wait, why am I complaining? Thank you for screwing up your title defense, Lakers!)

full link

[sterlingice]

Man, I missed out on some of the fun stories there

SI