2012 NFL Offseason thread

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Rizon

I do feel bad for Tebow, though. As bad as a QB dude is, he doesn't deserve that mess.

Haha. I can already see this storyline unfolding.

Sanchez starts out shitty like always so out of desperation Rex starts Tebow. The Jets start winning some 10-7 games and Tebow is the new Lin of NYC.

[bulletsponge]

Tebow in NY? and you thought ESPN were in full circle jerk mode before

[molson]

And at least if the football thing doesn't work out they can do a reality show. "Tebow and Sanchez" - they'd be roommates in a Brooklyn flat. Imagine the shenanigans as Sanchez bring home borderline-legal groupies as Tebow tries to inspire him to lead a better life.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I don't understand what the suspensions mean. Is Payton out for just the season (16 games)? BFD that the GM gets to oversee the draft and pre-season, but then sits home for the first 8 games. The team's largely put together by then.

I'd like to see some clarification of what this means.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Payton is a year-long suspension starting 4/1, as I understand.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I bet the NFL has a pretty good idea of this.

EDIT: Just like spygate, the NFL is under no obligation to reveal to the public the complete details of their investigation.

Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind they are dropping Thor's hammer on a "program" that didn't accomplish anything that the NFL quotes on. (No QBs carted off, none knocked out for the game.) And a defense that didn't show a pattern over those years of being unusually dirty on the field. So without a carry through of what the NFL talks about in its press releases (the PRs talking only about bounties on QBs and money for cart offs and players knocked out of the game) the NFL basically is doing its best to destroy a whole team for a year based on "player talk" and the presence of an incentive program.

And you are really sure the NFL wouldn't go hard without good evidence against the coaches and management? I'm not.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind they are dropping Thor's hammer on a "program" that didn't accomplish anything that the NFL quotes on. (No QBs carted off, none knocked out for the game.) And a defense that didn't show a pattern over those years of being unusually dirty on the field. So without a carry through of what the NFL talks about in its press releases (the PRs talking only about bounties on QBs and money for cart offs and players knocked out of the game) the NFL basically is doing its best to destroy a whole team for a year based on "player talk" and the presence of an incentive program.

And you are really sure the NFL wouldn't go hard without good evidence against the coaches and management? I'm not.

Shut up already with your excuses.

[Logan]

Listening to Francesa going nuts over this is great entertainment.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind they are dropping Thor's hammer on a "program" that didn't accomplish anything that the NFL quotes on. (No QBs carted off, none knocked out for the game.) And a defense that didn't show a pattern over those years of being unusually dirty on the field. So without a carry through of what the NFL talks about in its press releases (the PRs talking only about bounties on QBs and money for cart offs and players knocked out of the game) the NFL basically is doing its best to destroy a whole team for a year based on "player talk" and the presence of an incentive program.

And you are really sure the NFL wouldn't go hard without good evidence against the coaches and management? I'm not.

If they don't have good evidence they risk getting sued. They know a lot more about what happened than we do. They have to set a baseline to make sure this stuff doesn't happen again.

[molson]

Here's the full release from the NFL - it sounds like Payton lying about everything may have contributed to the suspension.

Full release from the NFL on Sean Payton's suspension, other sanctions - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

Edit: I think the smarter approach is generally to admit the facts you know they'll find out anyway, but argue the interpretation of the law. I think that helped Belichick avoid a suspension.

[Ksyrup]

Ah, I see the official release. A full year for Payton.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Logan

Listening to Francesa going nuts over this is great entertainment.

He's got a point. The Jets come into 2012 irrelevant in NY. Now they're not.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Logan

Shut up already with your excuses.

ha, what? I'm sorry sir, I am not Gregg Williams, and I have no excuses for you.

[Logan]

Listening to Boomer and Carton yesterday, right when the first Tebow to the Jets news started out, Carton made a great point...can you imagine Santonio Holmes reacting to Tebow?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, I don't understand what the suspensions mean. Is Payton out for just the season (16 games)? BFD that the GM gets to oversee the draft and pre-season, but then sits home for the first 8 games. The team's largely put together by then.

I'd like to see some clarification of what this means.

Well, they don't get paid.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by molson

Here's the full release from the NFL - it sounds like Payton lying about everything may have contributed to the suspension.

Full release from the NFL on Sean Payton's suspension, other sanctions - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

Just saw that myself. The full year makes more sense when you take into account that Payton got caught in at least one lie.

[molson]

I'm sure the Saints will use an assistant as an interim coach but this would be a fun spot for a older HOF-type coach to come in for one year and try to win a super bowl.

[DaddyTorgo]

Tebow doesn't fit the Jets personality-wise. It's going to be epic.

Tebow+Ryan+Cromartie+whichever crazy receivers they keep around?

Classic.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm sure the Saints will use an assistant as an interim coach but this would be a fun spot for a older HOF-type coach to come in for one year and try to win a super bowl.

Vitt would have been the guy, now its up in the air. But still, in-house does seem far more likely.

But.. the former NFL head coach that has been the closest with the Saints over the last few years, and not just because of his media duties, has been Jon Gruden. So if you see anything like that happen, Gruden would be the best bet for a wildcard.

[Logan]

As I said in another post earlier, even at the height of the Tebow phenomenon, the NYC media for the most part weren't buyers. I think it will be really interesting to see how they play it. They may try to go for the kill.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

So... are we back to the Ain'ts?

[cartman]

I would love to be a fly on the wall after Rex goes on one of this locker room tirades, and Tebow asks, "Coach Ryan, could you not use the Lord's name in vain?"

[Kodos]

When does news about specific players come out?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

So... are we back to the Ain'ts?

Nah.

They lose their head coach for a year and GM for 8 months but they arent losing any players and since they didnt have a 1st round pick to lose they lost 2 2nds. I dont see it as being the end of the world for them. Brees running the offense will leave them in fine shape without the guru Payton.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Nah.

They lose their head coach for a year and GM for 8 months but they arent losing any players and since they didnt have a 1st round pick to lose they lost 2 2nds. I dont see it as being the end of the world for them. Brees running the offense will leave them in fine shape without the guru Payton.

The players aren't out of the woods yet.

[Logan]

Guys, Antonio Cromartie doesn't like the Tebow trade.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

As I said in another post earlier, even at the height of the Tebow phenomenon, the NYC media for the most part weren't buyers. I think it will be really interesting to see how they play it. They may try to go for the kill.

Ya, I could actually see Tebow becoming somewhat anonymous as a backup/goal-line QB, especially if Sanchez plays OK.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by cartman

The players aren't out of the woods yet.

Oh ok. I guess I wasnt sure about that. I was thinking this was basically the final punishment.

[Lathum]

haha, Francesa calling out the Jets saying they are jealous of the Giants and desperate to get the back pages. Gold!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind they are dropping Thor's hammer on a "program" that didn't accomplish anything that the NFL quotes on. (No QBs carted off, none knocked out for the game.) And a defense that didn't show a pattern over those years of being unusually dirty on the field. So without a carry through of what the NFL talks about in its press releases (the PRs talking only about bounties on QBs and money for cart offs and players knocked out of the game) the NFL basically is doing its best to destroy a whole team for a year based on "player talk" and the presence of an incentive program.

And you are really sure the NFL wouldn't go hard without good evidence against the coaches and management? I'm not.

I get you are defending your team, but just because they didn't show results of additional violence on the field doesn't mean it is ok to run a bounty program. They are being punished for the intent, not the results.

[molson]

And I'm sure the punishments would be a lot worse for everyone involved if a bounty was specifically tied to someone's career ending or something.

[Rizon]

The Dolphins and Jags weren't willing to give up more than 4th rounder? I'd have thought the Phins would toss in the tomb of Flipper or something, plus some 1st rounders.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I get you are defending your team, but just because they didn't show results of additional violence on the field doesn't mean it is ok to run a bounty program. They are being punished for the intent, not the results.

Oh I agree completely. Just wasn't sure about a years suspension for it. But, seeing that the NFL claim is that Payton lied at least once about its knowledge, it is more understandable.

I do wonder how consistency will hold up when comparing current and future suspensions in this case to players doing things on the field in the past with CLEAR intent to harm far outside of the whistle and action of the play, and no player in such circumstances ever getting multi-game suspensions. (That I can remember?)

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Brees running the offense will leave them in fine shape without the guru Payton.

If I'm Brees there is no way I'm sticking around in New Orleans...get the 9ers or the Cards on the horn, please!!

[JPhillips]

Haynesworth was suspended five games for his stomp.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

If I'm Brees there is no way I'm sticking around in New Orleans...get the 9ers or the Cards on the horn, please!!

He's been franchised.

[Logan]

Part of the Jets problem has been how they've used draft picks to move up in drafts (with lackluster results) and have used picks to trade for veterans (same), which has seriously impacted depth and by extension, is leading to below average starters in some key positions. So they use a 4th and a 6th on Tebow (getting a 7th back)...okay, you're throwing away a couple picks on a backup, and even if you don't use those picks specifically on building up your roster, why not use that 4th rounder to bump your 3rd rounder (maybe even your 2nd) up some slots in order to get a player that could step in and compete for a starting job?

The desire for flash and "to impress" is going to kill anything this franchise could have accomplished...although I believe their window has closed already.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

If I'm Brees there is no way I'm sticking around in New Orleans...get the 9ers or the Cards on the horn, please!!

I think that would likely tarnish his legacy. He came to the franchise and resurected them, and helped resurect the spirit of the city. For him to bolt now because of some adversity would seem out of character. Althought I can't say I would blame him.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Haynesworth was suspended five games for his stomp.

Good one. There probably isn't a long history of those suspensions because, bounty or not, hate for the opposition or not, you really don't need to go outside of the rules to hurt someone. Just don't exchange money over it and you are golden!

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

If I'm Brees there is no way I'm sticking around in New Orleans...get the 9ers or the Cards on the horn, please!!

He doesnt have much choice. And really I dont see it as ending the Saints season. Brees knows the offense that Payton taught him. If they were trying to teach an entire new offense the system I would be worried but Brees is just like Peyton Manning with the Colts in that he could be the offensive coordinator of that team.

Payton is a hell of a coach but these players they have know the system so well it shouldnt cause them to suddenly not remember what they are doing.

[Ksyrup]

Awesome!

@tules486: @awfulannouncing NY is in #Linbow.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Awesome!

@tules486: @awfulannouncing NY is in #Linbow.

ROFL.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Logan

Guys, Antonio Cromartie doesn't like the Tebow trade.

@bustedcoverage I heard Tebow was going to start an orphanage for all of Antonio Cromartie's illegitimate kids.

[fantom1979]

I am going to pretend that the Jets just traded a 4th and a 6th for a 600 yard 24 year old running back and a 7th round pick. It sounds better to me this way.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

And it begins:

ESPN poll about NYJ starting QB

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

And it begins:

ESPN poll about NYJ starting QB

Pac-12 area still loves Sanchez.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

the NFL claim is that Payton lied at least once about its knowledge

They showed him an email that contradicted his denial of knowing about the program, and he then admitted it:

"10. When interviewed in 2012, Sean Payton claimed to be entirely unaware of the program, a claim contradicted by others. Further, prior to the Saints' opening game in 2011, Coach Payton received an email from a close associate that stated in part, "PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers (sic)." When shown the email during the course of the investigation, Coach Payton stated that it referred to a "bounty" on Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers."

The entire NFL release is at:
Full release from the NFL on Sean Payton's suspension, other sanctions - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

Pretty much everyone suspended has admitted their roles - this is clearly not a case of the NFL not knowing what went on.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

He doesnt have much choice. And really I dont see it as ending the Saints season. Brees knows the offense that Payton taught him. If they were trying to teach an entire new offense the system I would be worried but Brees is just like Peyton Manning with the Colts in that he could be the offensive coordinator of that team.

Payton is a hell of a coach but these players they have know the system so well it shouldnt cause them to suddenly not remember what they are doing.

If Brees doesn't get the extension he's looking for I bet he stays home this season and watches with Payton and the rest of his suspended teammates.

So, if the Saints aren't willing to pay him then they best be on the phone with somebody who will so they don't lose their franchise QB next season for nothing.

[Bearcat729]

The Saints still have to sign Brees right?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

He's been franchised.

Second time in two days this has been mentioned. Maybe we should put it in the thread title, a la Generalissimo Franco, i.e. "Drew Brees is STILL franchised".