Historical Nation Draft

[Abe Sargent]

Draft recap has been updated with patrick and ntndeacon's pick

[DaddyTorgo]

oh wait - is 10.5 me? LOL

[DaddyTorgo]

damn snake-thing confuses me everytime

[Noop]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

damn snake-thing confuses me everytime

Snake: Metal Gear.....

[DaddyTorgo]

fuck - i just had a couple of things road-blocked...bear with me

[DaddyTorgo]

forgot that surtt had taken churchill as a diplomat, was all set to make that my pick for ruler *sigh*

[DaddyTorgo]

okay - after much consideration and making of lists and all

10.5 Jawaharlal Nehru, Ruler/Leader, India, 20th Century

[Greyroofoo]

who?

[Abe Sargent]

Well Izulde, that leaves just me and you for leaders. Everyone else has dipped into the leader pot.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

who?

Jawaharlal Nehru - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i thought long and hard about it because i worried that would be the reaction. I needed a 20th century ruler so that I have some freedom in my remaining picks, and it really boiled down to a few choices. I could have taken somebody along the lines of a hitler or something (not naming names) but i didn't want to have to deal with the PR-flack of that.

Nehru was the first prime minister of independent India. He was the political heir of Ghandi, very well-regarded on the international stage. Very educated as well.

And hey, the guy was ruler of a country with like 1/5 of the world's population, so you know he can do the job.

[Abe Sargent]

I think there were better 20th century choices on the board, but I'm I'm going pre-20th I suspect.

[DaddyTorgo]

there might have been some, but a lot of the ones i looked at had "negative-PR" or were cock-blocked. maybe i just have a soft spot in my heart for nehru...idk

[Abe Sargent]

In all of history, we learn the rulers the most. We know the rulers the best. Down the ranks of history, each of us could name hundreds, perhaps a thousand different rules and leaders. If you are not walking away from this draft with a big name at ruler/leader, no matter where you pick, or what round you use, I think that's a missed opportunity.

[Coffee Warlord]

10.6 Henri Dunant, Civil Rights Leader, Switzerland, 20th Century

His work led to the foundation of the International Red Cross, as well as the first Geneva Convention. Later in life, he became active in women's rights, and received the first ever Nobel Peace prize in 1901.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

In all of history, we learn the rulers the most. We know the rulers the best. Down the ranks of history, each of us could name hundreds, perhaps a thousand different rules and leaders. If you are not walking away from this draft with a big name at ruler/leader, no matter where you pick, or what round you use, I think that's a missed opportunity.

And I think you can make the argument that Nehru is a big name at Ruler/Leader. Certainly ask any of the Indian members of the board...or any Indian in the world. He doesn't fit into the typical Western-world view, but that was a result of not feeling that there were a lot of those left at this point (the major countries had been blocked, and as i said, i want to go 20th century so that I was able to finish out my draft strategy). I won't name the other people still out there who i considered but didn't take at this point, but they all had blemishes.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

10.6 Henri Dunant, Civil Rights Leader, Switzerland, 20th Century

His work led to the foundation of the International Red Cross, as well as the first Geneva Convention. Later in life, he became active in women's rights, and received the first ever Nobel Peace prize in 1901.

nice pick. one Iwas thinknig about for my Civil rights pick.

[DaddyTorgo]

Not my fault if the voters don't recognize the critical importance of Nehru to Indian independence and then the postwar period.

1. First and longest-serving PM of India
2. One of the founders of the Non-aligned movement in the postwar period
3. Ghandi's protegee and political successor
4. Liberal. Concerned for poor and underpriveleged, pushed through a series of reforms that led to the foundation of "Modern India."
5. Father of Indiri and grandfather of Rajiv Ghandi.

[DaddyTorgo]

I could have gone with a despot and an absolute ruler, but this pick was about who i want running my nation, and I can't say i want ohhh...Mussolini or his equivalent. It also gets e me a 20th century ruler where there are not that good choices left (and fewer still without negative-PR).

[larrymcg421]

In DT's defense, I think what makes this draft great, and different in nature to the previous historical draft, is we are not just looking for big names, but people who would be great at these positions. Now many times those two will go hand in hand, but not always. For example, I don't think anyone would say Mordechai Hod is a big name, but he's certainly a great choice for that spot.

Of course, it is up to DT, and anyone picking a non-big name to make their case for the voters.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

In DT's defense, I think what makes this draft great, and different in nature to the previous historical draft, is we are not just looking for big names, but people who would be great at these positions. Now many times those two will go hand in hand, but not always. For example, I don't think anyone would say Mordechai Hod is a big name, but he's certainly a great choice for that spot.

Of course, it is up to DT, and anyone picking a non-big name to make their case for the voters.

Exactly. If I was going "big name" then there are a bunch of people in third world countries i would have picked over nehru, but i wouldn't want any of them running my country over nehru, because most of them are dictators. and if i'm going to have a dictator running my country then why have a justice minister, or an army chief or anything?

Nehru was a statesman, a patriot, and a nation builder. He helped to bring together a very fragmented society in India and unite them, and created the modern India that is so successful that it is taking all of our jobs away. You may not recognize his name, but you can't knock his accomplishments. Particularly as a "head of state."

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

And I think you can make the argument that Nehru is a big name at Ruler/Leader. Certainly ask any of the Indian members of the board...or any Indian in the world. He doesn't fit into the typical Western-world view, but that was a result of not feeling that there were a lot of those left at this point (the major countries had been blocked, and as i said, i want to go 20th century so that I was able to finish out my draft strategy). I won't name the other people still out there who i considered but didn't take at this point, but they all had blemishes.

As someone with a very prolific Asian cast on my team so far, you should realize that I do not endorse the necessarily Western view of things. However, there is a reason many don;t know of Nehru. In today's day and age there are a bunch of countries, and many of those have had good leaders in the past 110 years. Only the truly great ones are the ones people know. Does Nehru suck? Nope. In real life, he'd be a fine leader. He was a good guy. But he's not a sexy pick, and I think there are a ton of sexy picks at the Ruler/Leader level, that's all.

[Izulde]

Nehru was controversial like Ghandi. And oh, it's my pick? Hmmm, okay let me look.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

As someone with a very prolific Asian cast on my team so far, you should realize that I do not endorse the necessarily Western view of things. However, there is a reason many don;t know of Nehru. In today's day and age there are a bunch of countries, and many of those have had good leaders in the past 110 years. Only the truly great ones are the ones people know. Does Nehru suck? Nope. In real life, he'd be a fine leader. He was a good guy. But he's not a sexy pick, and I think there are a ton of sexy picks at the Ruler/Leader level, that's all.

I'm not so sure there are a ton of "sexy picks" left that don't also carry the tag of "this guy was a despot". Look at the countries that have been taken already - it covers the major world powers. You could certainly argue that there have been some good leaders in some smaller countries, but I'd argue that none of them have accomplished as much with the stakes as high as Nehru. Russia & China & USA have been covered, as has Western Europe, and frankly I don't see any sexier names in Eastern Europe, and definately not in Africa or South America that don't carry the baggage of negative PR. I actually did have at least two other 20th century thoughts - one of them I discounted as being too reactionary and "blah" and the other I discounted for being more of an army leader and less of a statesman.

I want a statesman as my ruler. And Nehru is just that.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'm not so sure there are a ton of "sexy picks" left that don't also carry the tag of "this guy was a despot". Look at the countries that have been taken already - it covers the major world powers. You could certainly argue that there have been some good leaders in some smaller countries, but I'd argue that none of them have accomplished as much with the stakes as high as Nehru. Russia & China & USA have been covered, as has Western Europe, and frankly I don't see any sexier names in Eastern Europe, and definately not in Africa or South America that don't carry the baggage of negative PR. I actually did have at least two other 20th century thoughts - one of them I discounted as being too reactionary and "blah" and the other I discounted for being more of an army leader and less of a statesman.

I want a statesman as my ruler. And Nehru is just that.

I can send you a pm with one name if you want. Just one name.

[Izulde]

10.7 - Queen Isabella - Ruler/Leader - Spain - Pre-20th Century

Although she's often paired with Ferdinand as the Catholic Monarchs, it was Isabella who was the stronger of the two by far. A skilled, beautiful, devout ruler, she was not only able to complete the Reconquista during her reign, but she also launched the Age of Exploration in Spain, key to making the kingdom a world power. She also was able to keep Castile a separate kingdom, despite Ferdinand's grasping for the throne repeatedly.

Can you imagine the skill at intrigue and unification we have for our new nation with this woman as our ruler and Bismarck as the Chief Diplomat? Our independence and rise as a world power are virtually assured.

[Abe Sargent]

A very strong pick, and one of the few I had circled for a late pikcup in r/l. Very good!

[DaddyTorgo]

nice pick izulde

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

A very strong pick, and one of the few I had circled for a late pikcup in r/l. Very good!

Thanks. She's my favorite monarch of all time, so I'd planned to make her my ruler if she was still around in the late game.

[Izulde]

Thanks, DT

[Noop]

10.8 - Alonso Pérez de Guzmán - Navy Chief - Spain - pre 20th

[Abe Sargent]

I cannot believe that no one took the UK for leader/ruler. There are tons of great monarchs and prime ministers available, and no one took any. That astounds me. I'm not going there for my leader either, but still, color me surprised.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I cannot believe that no one took the UK for leader/ruler. There are tons of great monarchs and prime ministers available, and no one took any. That astounds me. I'm not going there for my leader either, but still, color me surprised.

I was going to take Churchill for leader/ruler before he got snapped up. And there was an English ruler I -almost- took instead of Isabel.

But I'm a little surprised myself.

[Barkeep49]

10.9 Nadia Elena Comăneci Romania Athlete 20th Century

Perfection is hard to argue with.

[Abe Sargent]

Give me about 5 minutes and I'll have mine in

[larrymcg421]

Finishing up the first post while watching the Celtics pretend to be a D-League team.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Finishing up the first post while watching the Celtics pretend to be a D-League team.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Finishing up the first post while watching the Celtics pretend to be a D-League team.

That reminds me, I need to finish the East Conference Finals and post them.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Izulde

That reminds me, I need to finish the East Conference Finals and post them.

given his dissapearing act this series you might not want to trade for ray allen

[Abe Sargent]

10.10 Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

10.10 Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th

hmmm

[Abe Sargent]

I wanted a world class icon structure, but it had to be 20th century.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

10.10 Sydney Opera House, Manmade Structure, Australia, 20th

I thought about this one.

[Surtt]

10.11 Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Surtt

10.11 Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20

Damn you!

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Surtt

10.11 Ferdinand Magellan, Navy Chief, Portugal, Pre-20

Great value

[larrymcg421]

Apathetic Lurker picks:

10.12 Pierre Fredy (Baron de Coubertin), Athlete, France, pre 20th

12.1 Zarathustra, Religious Leader, Iran, pre 20th

[Izulde]

Excellent value with Zarathrustra

[Abe Sargent]

Surtt's back up!

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Surtt's back up!

Give me a few min.
Didn't expect to be back up so soon.

[Surtt]

11.2 Charles Ponzi, Economist, Italy, Post-20


Hey, I can get in on the ground floor...
All I need is to get a few other nations to sign up...