Its' Here! NHL 2008 Playoff Thread

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Part two first-- sure they can't beat the D man to the puck, see original post you quoted.

And really, I just wanted someone else to confirm what I was seeing. If that starts getting called in games 3 and 4, we'll know that NHL officiating is taking a lesson from the NBA.

The thing is, the Pens are partly at fault here. They don't get to the line with any speed, so it makes it easier for the Wings to obstruct them. If you are flying full speed as you cross the line and a guy holds or hooks you it is either ineffective or extremely obvious. When you have to skate horizontally along the line while you wait for the puck carrier to hit the red line and dump, you are basically screwed regardless. Throw in a little tug or grab and you have zero chance.

It will indeed be interesting to see if the refs start calling things tighter in Pittsburgh though. The thing is, I doubt it. The West has played the clutch-and-grab style for two years now. It's why the Eastern series' have been way more fun to watch, but unfortunately it is really effective.

[Maple Leafs]

Unless I'm forgetting somebody, the Wings are going to be the first team in 14 years to win the Cup without a former top-four pick in their lineup.

(Probably because the Penguins have all of them.)

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Unless I'm forgetting somebody, the Wings are going to be the first team in 14 years to win the Cup without a former top-four pick in their lineup.

(Probably because the Penguins have all of them.)

Detroit can't sign them yet, all under 35.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

He's 21 years old. This is the Stanley Cup Finals. There's no being tired.

Willpower to get past it aside, I'd say it's quite possible the kid has hit the proverbial wall. While it may not have been very astute for him to say it, looking at his background, this is by far the most games he's ever played in a year.

83 last year, no more than 60 prior to that. This season he's at 98 and counting. That's 20% more than he's ever played & I think it's probably showing. To compound matters more, his minutes were up by 2 per game this year over last, so equal to an additional 10 games versus what he's used to.

[Fidatelo]

I always find it hard to believe that these guys actually get physically tired. This isn't like the 70's, they spend every day of their lives training nowadays.

I think it is more likely that Malkin is mentally unprepared for this, which is generally what they say happens to people who haven't experienced it before. Don Cherry talked about Pittsburgh needing more guys in the dressing room that have done this before to keep the n00bs (my word, not his) spirits up against the adversity. I don't normally agree with Cherry, but that seems like a decent observation.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Willpower to get past it aside, I'd say it's quite possible the kid has hit the proverbial wall. While it may not have been very astute for him to say it, looking at his background, this is by far the most games he's ever played in a year.

83 last year, no more than 60 prior to that. This season he's at 98 and counting. That's 20% more than he's ever played & I think it's probably showing. To compound matters more, his minutes were up by 2 per game this year over last, so equal to an additional 10 games versus what he's used to.

Remember as well, he was dragging in the 1st round vs Ottawa last season. And that was after missing the first 6 games of the season.

He needs to get on some sort of Ivan Drago training regimen.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

...but can't see Roberts punch Franzen in the head at center ice?

From another site:

You don't go to Gary Roberts and tell him you just saw a doctor and you have a concussion. You go to a doctor and tell him you just saw Gary Roberts and you have a concussion.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I only ever heard Therrien's response about the Wings' obstruction, I never heard the original question.

Here's a partial transcript:

Question: You had a conversation with Malkin about him being the leader in this game. How do you explain him having zero shots in this game?

Michel Therrien: It's really tough to generate offense against that team. They're good on obstruction. It's going to be tough to generate any type of offense, if the rules remain the same. So it's the first time we're facing a team that the obstruction is there, and we're having a hard time skating to take away ice.


It all makes perfect sense now. He's just trying to protect his star player. What else is he going to say?

I Guarantee that elite coaches like Babcock would never resort to pissing and moaning like that. Guys like him, Bowman, etc. might have defended their star players, but they'd do in a way that wasn't so obviously whiny and pissy.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Are we talking about the same Mike Babcock? Who lost in the Finals (same as it appears Therrien will) on his first trip. Then could make the playoffs the following season and was canned. And then lost in the first round with a team that won like 58-60 games in the regular season, the year after the lockout?

If he's elite...I want the FOFC hockey draft re-voted, because my selection of Barry Melrose got shafted! He lost in his first trip to the Finals too.

I agree with the sentiment, but calling him elite is crazy. He's currently got the same number of careers championships as Therrien. Actually no, Therrien won a Memorial Cup with Granby in like 1986.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Are we talking about the same Mike Babcock? Who lost in the Finals (same as it appears Therrien will) on his first trip. Then could make the playoffs the following season and was canned. And then lost in the first round with a team that won like 58-60 games in the regular season, the year after the lockout?

If he's elite...I want the FOFC hockey draft re-voted, because my selection of Barry Melrose got shafted! He lost in his first trip to the Finals too.

I agree with the sentiment, but calling him elite is crazy. He's currently got the same number of careers championships as Therrien. Actually no, Therrien won a Memorial Cup with Granby in like 1986.

Babcock led Canada to gold medals in the 1997 world junior championships and 2004 World Cup championship.

Also, he wasn't canned by the Ducks. They made an offer and he refused.

So, you're telling me that if the Detroit Red Wings win two more games this year, we can consider Babcock an elite coach, but if they can't, he's not? That's crazy.

You're right, winning is everything. There are many great players in sports whose "elite" status is questioned because of the fact they never won a championship. (You know who else led the Wings to great regular season only to lose in the first round of the playoffs his first season as the Wings' headcoach? That's right. Scotty Bowman.)

That said, Babcock is a hell of a coach. I can't think of a current coach in the NHL I'd rather have behind the Wings' bench. In fact, there was a recent Sports Illustrated players' poll asking them "Which NHL Coach would you most like to play for?" The winner? Mike Babcock at 16%. (http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/171076).

Based on what he's done with Ducks and Wings to date, I'd consider him an elite coach.

Hopefully this entire discussion will be rendered moot in the next week or so.

[Schmidty]

This is only Babcock's fifth year in the league. He has been in the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, been to the Stanley Cup Finals twice, been to the Conference Finals three times, and will be winning the Stanley cup in only his fifth year (most likely). If that isn't elite for a young coach, I don't know what is.

Either way, Babcock is a classy, old school coach, and Therrien is a whiny, inept douche, and the majority of Pen fans that I've seen agree.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Just saying 5 seasons in is a little early to consider him elite. Putting him in the same sentence as Bowman is silly.

Badger Bob Johnson coached 6 seasons in the NHL. Once losing in the finals with Calgary and once winning the Cup with Pittsburgh,

I don't call him an elite NHL coach, and I'm a Pens fan.
Elite amateur coach maybe, but not pro.

ETA-- Therrien is whiny and yes must Pens fan do agree. But that makes Bryan Murray, Tom Renney and John Stevens the same, since all three of them whined as well about officiating/diving during their series against the Pens. So he's hardly alone.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

ETA-- Therrien is whiny and yes must Pens fan do agree. But that makes Bryan Murray, Tom Renney and John Stevens the same, since all three of them whined as well about officiating/diving during their series against the Pens. So he's hardly alone.

Whoa here. Stevens did not whine about the officials any more than Therrien did in the last series. He knew he was out manned. Therrien after their Game 4 loss in Philly made some comments about how far the Flyers came and how "disciplined" they were since they were getting less calls.

If you watched Stevens' PC after the games, he gave full credit to the Pens for being a great team.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

But that makes Bryan Murray, Tom Renney and John Stevens the same...

Not sure on the others, but Bryan Murray didn't earn the nickname "Cryin' Bryan" because he's an Aerosmith fan.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Not sure on the others, but Bryan Murray didn't earn the nickname "Cryin' Bryan" because he's an Aerosmith fan.

I hated that guy when he was the Wings coach back in the day.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Are we talking about the same Mike Babcock? Who lost in the Finals (same as it appears Therrien will) on his first trip. Then could make the playoffs the following season and was canned. And then lost in the first round with a team that won like 58-60 games in the regular season, the year after the lockout?

I don't know if Babcock is elite. I think he's a good coach who needs a lot more experience to be called elite.

That said, he never once threw anyone on his own team or the Devils under the bus in his trip to the Finals, and I didn't hear him bitching about the Ducks last year either.

And as HB noted, Babcock was not fired. His contract was allowed to end and the Ducks offered him a lower than market value contract for one simple reason--they had just hired Burke, and Babcock is not Burke's type of coach (apparently). And if you know anything about hockey, you know Burke does whatever he darn well pleases.

Wings were fortunate to get a good coach like that.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Whoa here. Stevens did not whine about the officials any more than Therrien did in the last series. He knew he was out manned. Therrien after their Game 4 loss in Philly made some comments about how far the Flyers came and how "disciplined" they were since they were getting less calls.

If you watched Stevens' PC after the games, he gave full credit to the Pens for being a great team.

After most of the games, and the end of the series, yes. But I think he started before the series even began, picking up the diving crusade where Renney left off.

And is being at that same level as Therrien all that great?

[Dr. Sak]

Each time Therrian has lost in this year's playoffs he has found a way to blame the officials. Stevens did not do that, he gave credit to the opposing team. I can only remember one game, I think in the Washington series, where he came close to a tirade that Therrian went on after last game.

Ever since Hitchcock called Crosby a diver, it's common knowledge around here (Pittsburgh), that all Flyers coaches complain about diving when playing the Pens, when honestly Stevens doesn't.

[Suburban Rhythm]

http://www.courierpostonline.com/app...17/1002/sports

Flyers coach John Stevens accused referees Dan O'Halloran and Kelly Sutherland of favoring the Penguins' star players in Game 2.

I'm not even saying he's "wrong". If he felt that way, that's his opinion. Therrien is saying the same thing with "subtle obstruction". I wrote it in this thread before Therrien ever said it, so I can't believe he and I are the only two people that think it's happening.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I'm not even saying he's "wrong". If he felt that way, that's his opinion. Therrien is saying the same thing with "subtle obstruction". I wrote it in this thread before Therrien ever said it, so I can't believe he and I are the only two people that think it's happening.

It is obstruction if the Red Wings stop moving their feet and/ or use their sticks/hands to stop the pens from moving. Watch the wings, they move their feet, continuously. They have every right to each inch of that ice as the Pens are, and just because they are cutting off the Pens direct path, does not make it obstruction.

I wrote it in this thread before Therrien ever said it, so I can't believe he and I are the only two people that think it's happening.

The same has been written over and over about Crosby diving, yet everyone defends his actions as playing hard.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bsak16

It is obstruction if the Red Wings stop moving their feet and/ or use their sticks/hands to stop the pens from moving. Watch the wings, they move their feet, continuously. They have every right to each inch of that ice as the Pens are, and just because they are cutting off the Pens direct path, does not make it obstruction.



The same has been written over and over about Crosby diving, yet everyone defends his actions as playing hard.

They do move their feet. But as you said "and/or use their sticks". That's what I am seeing.

People can say Crosby dives. And people can defend their stance to say it.

People can say the Wings are using their sticks. And people can defend their stance to say it.

I just don't get what makes Therrien a terrible coach for saying what he believes is happening.

Unrelated-- did you see Mark Madden got canned by ESPN 1250?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I just don't get what makes Therrien a terrible coach for saying what he believes is happening.

Unrelated-- did you see Mark Madden got canned by ESPN 1250?

I don't think he's a terrible coach, I actually think he's done a good job. I just think it is poor form that in his 4 losses this postseason, he has complained about the refs each time. Yeah he's protecting his players and not calling them out, but you can do that otherways by maybe taking the blame yourself. I'm sure you've watched or heard about the last one where he wasn't even asked a question about the refs, and he just went off on a tangent.

Yeah I saw that he did last night in the PG. People tend to take him too seriously. He is what he is, an entertainer that talks sports. He hates the Steelers, which in this town is #1 above all and he is really good about talking Pens. He says stuff to fire people up and it gets under people's skin. But it keeps those same people tuning in day after day.

I know I would get pissed and want to call in and rip him when he would make fun of Penn State or Joe Paterno, but he knew what buttons to push on people. He said some tasteless stuff which got him in trouble a lot, and since ESPN is owned by Disney that wasn't tolerated. He also HATED Bettis for being a no show to an interview one time and never let him live it down. But had a good relationship with Mario.

I talked to Madden one time in Murrysville. He coached Dek Hockey teams and my team just got done playing and his was the next one on. My friends and I joked with him that we were going to call in tomorrow and talk about how great our front line was since we each had 2 goals and an assist in the game. He joked around with us for a bit.

I use to love back in the late 1990s-early 2000s when the Steelers would lose and Kordell was the QB. Some of those Monday shows were the funniest radio ever. People were calling in ready to jump off the bridge, and Mark would basically tell them to jump.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bsak16

I don't think he's a terrible coach, I actually think he's done a good job. I just think it is poor form that in his 4 losses this postseason, he has complained about the refs each time. Yeah he's protecting his players and not calling them out, but you can do that otherways by maybe taking the blame yourself. I'm sure you've watched or heard about the last one where he wasn't even asked a question about the refs, and he just went off on a tangent.

Yeah I saw that he did last night in the PG. People tend to take him too seriously. He is what he is, an entertainer that talks sports. He hates the Steelers, which in this town is #1 above all and he is really good about talking Pens. He says stuff to fire people up and it gets under people's skin. But it keeps those same people tuning in day after day.

I know I would get pissed and want to call in and rip him when he would make fun of Penn State or Joe Paterno, but he knew what buttons to push on people. He said some tasteless stuff which got him in trouble a lot, and since ESPN is owned by Disney that wasn't tolerated. He also HATED Bettis for being a no show to an interview one time and never let him live it down. But had a good relationship with Mario.

I talked to Madden one time in Murrysville. He coached Dek Hockey teams and my team just got done playing and his was the next one on. My friends and I joked with him that we were going to call in tomorrow and talk about how great our front line was since we each had 2 goals and an assist in the game. He joked around with us for a bit.

I use to love back in the late 1990s-early 2000s when the Steelers would lose and Kordell was the QB. Some of those Monday shows were the funniest radio ever. People were calling in ready to jump off the bridge, and Mark would basically tell them to jump.

Honest...why does anyone care what anyone has to say in the post game conferences? It's either the one side explaining why they lost, or the other side saying it's only one game. They are all politically correct 95% of the time...but when they aren't, the sky is falling.

I got hung up on once by Madden-- I wear it like a badge of honor. Probably around 2005. He said playing "run the ball, stop the run/play great D, control the clock football" will never be good enough to get the Steelers to a Super Bowl. I called and said, simply, it worked in 2000 for Baltimore. And Carolina made the Super Bowl, but did not win, on the same structure. Of course I was an idiot, and got hung up on, which to me, just meant I was right.

The most important part of the story in the PG is that they could move Eddie Crow to Madden's 3-7 slot, and reunite Stan & Guy from 10-1. Just to hear "Stan...Guy...love the show" once more would be heaven.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I got hung up on once by Madden-- I wear it like a badge of honor. Probably around 2005. He said playing "run the ball, stop the run/play great D, control the clock football" will never be good enough to get the Steelers to a Super Bowl. I called and said, simply, it worked in 2000 for Baltimore. And Carolina made the Super Bowl, but did not win, on the same structure. Of course I was an idiot, and got hung up on, which to me, just meant I was right.

The most important part of the story in the PG is that they could move Eddie Crow to Madden's 3-7 slot, and reunite Stan & Guy from 10-1. Just to hear "Stan...Guy...love the show" once more would be heaven.

Yeah you were right. It was funny when people would call in and make fun of him for being fat. Then he'd go on tirades about Plex smoking pot and how he (madden) saw the smoke coming from his chimney since he lived close to Plex. Or how someone say Kordell in the back of a UPS truck with a guy in Schenley Park.

I only called in a few times back in 2002 before Penn State beat Nebraska and he asked me to call back after the game to tell him what I thought.

Here is an actual part from a Stan and Guy show from my freshman year in college.

Caller: Stan, Guy, love the show...first time caller...long time listener.

Stan: Thanks caller what's your question?

Caller: When is the last time that you gave Guy oral sex?

Stan: Not in at least a week, Next caller.

It was right after Guy got in trouble for being with that hooker. My college roommate and I looked at each other in disbelief and couldn't stop laughing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

They do move their feet. But as you said "and/or use their sticks". That's what I am seeing.

People can say Crosby dives. And people can defend their stance to say it.

People can say the Wings are using their sticks. And people can defend their stance to say it.

I just don't get what makes Therrien a terrible coach for saying what he believes is happening.

Unrelated-- did you see Mark Madden got canned by ESPN 1250?

I don't think Therrien is a terrible coach at all for saying what he said. I defended what he said. I thought he handled the question perfectly. What is he going to say to that? "Yeah, I talked to Malkin. Obviously I didn't get through to him. I don't know why he's struggling, I heard he was tired, that could be it."

He shifted the glare off one of his top guys and took the opportunity to try and flag something for the refs. I'm sure every coach in the NHL, elite or otherwise, has done this in the past.

I don't see the obstruction. The Wings do play a very effective team defense. Their forwards work thier asses off to get back into the play and backcheck like crazy. It's all about a solid system, hard work, and dedication.

A lot of the credit has to go Babcock. He's really drilled it into each of these guys. Just look at the reclamation projects the Wings have had over the last few years in Cleary, Samuelsson, Stuart most recently, Lilja (to a very small extent because I still think he's awful). Babcock isn't the sole reason these guys have been able to be successful in the league after bouncing around, but he's certainly been a factor.

[Arctic Blast]

Therrien is really driving me nuts. His time has been outscored 7-0, and thoroughly dominated in the first 2 games, and he still comes out and says that this is not the time to make changes? WHEN IS?! Good grief, man, shake SOMETHING up! Any coach who can't/won't make adjustments when necessary isn't much of a coach.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Arctic Blast

Therrien is really driving me nuts. His time has been outscored 7-0, and thoroughly dominated in the first 2 games, and he still comes out and says that this is not the time to make changes? WHEN IS?! Good grief, man, shake SOMETHING up! Any coach who can't/won't make adjustments when necessary isn't much of a coach.

Well, he put in Daryl Sydor for Letang (so much for the French Astronauts). That's a change. He changed up his lines between games 1 and 2 and replaced Laraque with Roberts.

[Dr. Sak]

He changes his lines all throughout the game.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by bsak16

It is obstruction if the Red Wings stop moving their feet and/ or use their sticks/hands to stop the pens from moving. Watch the wings, they move their feet, continuously. They have every right to each inch of that ice as the Pens are, and just because they are cutting off the Pens direct path, does not make it obstruction.

Actually, in regards to the highlighted part, I'm pretty sure it does. You can't block a guy without the puck. That's called interference, whether your feet are moving or not.

[Dr. Sak]

This is where my knowledge of the game is a little bad or maybe it is just a grey area. If you are skating (backwards or forwards) in the direction on the puck, and you cut of the path of the other player, (keeping your body between him and the puck), how can that be obstruction? The defender has a right to that puck too.

[Maple Leafs]

Both players have a right to the puck. As long as the defensive player is going for the puck, it's not obstruction just because he gets to the space first.

However, if he tries to slow up the other guy (by slowing down, cutting him off, etc) then it can be called.

[Fidatelo]

And that's where I think the Wings do a lot of obstructing. I'll watch closer tonight, but I felt I saw a lot of defensemen facing up the guy rushing for the dump-in, and basically just skating backwards in front of him while his co-defender or the high-forward scooted over to grab the loose puck. I don't think this is allowed, because the guy skating backward isn't really making any attempt on the puck at all, he's just getting in the way.

Like I said, perhaps I'm off so I'll watch closer tonight, but that was my initial impression. And like I also said earlier, it's harder to really tell one way or the other when the Pens forwards are going so slow to begin with.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

And that's where I think the Wings do a lot of obstructing. I'll watch closer tonight, but I felt I saw a lot of defensemen facing up the guy rushing for the dump-in, and basically just skating backwards in front of him while his co-defender or the high-forward scooted over to grab the loose puck. I don't think this is allowed, because the guy skating backward isn't really making any attempt on the puck at all, he's just getting in the way.

That's definitely obstruction. I'd be surprised if the Wings were doing much of that since its usually an automatic call. The grey area is when the defenceman has his back to the player and is more subtle in the obstruction (although they often give it away by looking over their shoulder).

[Fidatelo]

Well, lets all watch it tonight and see how it is actually going down. I don't have a great memory, and I wasn't looking for it specifically, I just know what I 'felt' at the time.

[Maple Leafs]

A buddy of mine in the media tells me that the general consensus is that Mats Sundin is leaning towards signing with Montreal as a free agent.

Keep in mind that he refused to waive a trade to the Habs at the deadline that would have given the Leafs Chris Higgins and a first rounder.

If he signs there, I may actually drive down and kill him. It's only two hours each way.

[Fidatelo]

Wow that's pretty bogus if he does that. I think he owes it to Toronto to come back. What a douche.

[sterlingice]

Goal for Pittsburgh, finally!

SI

[EagleFan]

Damn!!! Just realized the game was on and I see the shutout streak is over.

[Maple Leafs]

Funny moment pre-game when they announce Scotty Bowman for the ceremonial faceoff. Scattered boos, followed by strong boos when they announce that he was coach of the last Wings Cup winner. Then they announce he was also coach of the last Pens Cup winner, followed by confused silence and then cheering.

Yep, these Pens fans are hardcore. No bandwagon jumpers here.

[DeToxRox]

Exciting game. I expected if Pit won a game it'd be this one and they did what they had to. Detroit played bad over half the game and was in it until the end. I expect that once Babcock makes adjustments Detroit will take Saturday's take and go on to try and clinch it at home.

Call me naive for that but I don't know if Pittsburgh can play any better then that and they had to scratch and claw for the win, while Detroit didn't play that well and almost pulled it out.

I hope this had a good audience though as it was what playoff hockey is all about.

[Fidatelo]

That was a fantastic game! If the rest of the series can be like that, I don't care who wins. So fun to watch.

As for our previous discussion regarding obstruction, the refs decided to send a message in the first period with holding calls right off the bat. Combine that with the change in Pittsburgh's forecheck strategy and I didn't really see much holding.

However, on CBC's pre-game chatter they showed some clips of the Pens ineffective forecheck from last game, and 2 of the 3 clips showed exactly the kind of face-up defenseman obstruction that I was talking about. Anyone else see that?

Regardless, if we can get more games to play out like game 3 I'll be a happy camper, even if Detroit wins 2 straight and ends it. I'll be even happier if it can go on like this for another 4.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Funny moment pre-game when they announce Scotty Bowman for the ceremonial faceoff. Scattered boos, followed by strong boos when they announce that he was coach of the last Wings Cup winner. Then they announce he was also coach of the last Pens Cup winner, followed by confused silence and then cheering.

Yep, these Pens fans are hardcore. No bandwagon jumpers here.

That threw me for a second. I thought Johnson was alive for both Cup wins, and had to go look it up.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I was at the game...a some of the stuff I noticed.

Both team jumped on about every other faceoff. And Draper everyone he took. But wasn't until the 3rd period before I remember anyone getting waved out.

Now I'm not going to say the Wings are using their sticks again...but how many times were sticks dropped, or more to the point, pulled away from the Wings as a Penguin is skating through the neutral zone? I counted 5 in the first period. Is Stickum banned in the NHL?

Brooks Orpik shift about halfway through the 3rd period is why someone is going to pay him much more than Pittsburgh will once UFA hits. He took down Drake and Cleary twice apiece in about 35 seconds.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Funny moment pre-game when they announce Scotty Bowman for the ceremonial faceoff. Scattered boos, followed by strong boos when they announce that he was coach of the last Wings Cup winner. Then they announce he was also coach of the last Pens Cup winner, followed by confused silence and then cheering.

Yep, these Pens fans are hardcore. No bandwagon jumpers here.

I noticed that as well. Funny stuff.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Definitely a fun game to watch. Pittsburgh took it to the Wings. They didn't dominate, but they played very well, had the forecheck going and had a lot more jump in their skates.

That atmosphere in the place was amazing.

I expect Chelios to be in for Lilja on Saturday.

[Dr. Sak]

It was like a switch was turned on the Pens 14 minutes into the game. That's when they started to take over. The scary part was that Detroit was still in the game till the very end, even with their sloppy turnovers and the Pens playing as well as they did.

The Pens did a good job protecting MAF, they backed it in and didn't allow Detroit to any of the loose pucks around the net. Malkin played a bit better as did Malone.

The Mule's goal, was a thing of beauty. I think Therrian's comments got the Pens some calls they wouldn't have gotten in earlier games. But the first few were pretty easy to call on Detroit when they used the free hand on the Pens player. What annoyed me however was that everytime a Pittsburgh player went down from a hit, the crowd was up in arms for a penalty. Gill's penalties were warranted...he crossed checked the guy in front of the net twice. He needs to use his big frame to box the Wings out of the front of the net.

SR that must have been a great game to see in person. In the 3rd period alone they went 9 minutes without a whistle. Orpik one shift laid out 3 wings. Should be another fun one Saturday, but the Pens need to keep up the intensity.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Definitely a fun game to watch.

No it wasn't. The Wings lost.

I don't care about fun hockey. I care about winning.

[Fidatelo]

Hal Gill is terrible. I'm still amazed that he gets so much time out there. Has Sydor really fallen off that much?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

No it wasn't. The Wings lost.

I don't care about fun hockey. I care about winning.

Thanks Emperor of Dickland

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bsak16

What annoyed me however was that everytime a Pittsburgh player went down from a hit, the crowd was up in arms for a penalty.

SR that must have been a great game to see in person. In the 3rd period alone they went 9 minutes without a whistle. Orpik one shift laid out 3 wings. Should be another fun one Saturday, but the Pens need to keep up the intensity.

Isn't that every arena in the league like that? Game 1 when Lidstrom got called for a hook on Malone when his stick was around his waist, I thought they were going to have to stop people from jumping out of the balconies.

Cleary and Drake both hit the ice twice that shift. After they went to timeout after that, the whole building started with "ORPIK! ORPIK!"

I was at the 1999 game 6 vs the Devils, round 1, when Jagr won it in OT after tying it with about 2 mins to play in the 3rd. Last night was about 10 times louder than I remember that.

Also important...Colby Armstrong was at the Marriott across the street from the arena doing some of the local pre-game shows. BRING BACK COLBY!