Soccer Thread 2013-14

[DaddyTorgo]

I want to play:

#1 - We're obviously screwed.
Spain
Ghana
Netherlands

#2 - Maybe a path out, but I think Colombia is too strong offensively
Colombia
Ivory Coast
Portugal

#3 - Haha. Obviously out.
Brazil
Netherlands
Greece

#4 - Can we beat Ghana? I'm skeptical.
Spain
Ghana
Croatia

#5 - LOL. Nope!
Brazil
Nigeria
Netherlands

#6 - Again, can we beat Ghana?
Brazil
Ghana
Croatia

#7 - LOLCATZ. HELLZ NO.
Spain
Chile
France

#8 - EVEN MORE LOLCATZ THEN #7.
Spain
Chile
Italy

#9 - This is our best-case scenario I think.
Germany
Ecuador
Bosnia-Herzegovina

#10 - If we can beat Ghana...
Uruguay
Ghana
Russia

[BishopMVP]

What time is the actual draw Friday? 11am est?

[BishopMVP]

I don't see much point in worrying about the draw. In 1994 we beat Colombia and lost to Romania. 1998 we lost to Iran. 2002 we beat Portugal and lost to Poland. 2006 our only point came against Italy. 2010 we got a dream draw and still barely got through on a 93rd minute goal to beat Algeria. If we play well we can beat really good teams, and if we play poorly we can lose to the worst of the 32. (Although yes, I will prefer not to see Chile from Pot 2 or the Netherlands from Pot 4. Pot 1 it's 50/50 between great teams - Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, maybe Uruguay - and beatable ones - Swiss, Colombia, Belgium, again maybe Uruguay.)

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Pot 1 it's 50/50 between great teams - Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, maybe Uruguay - and beatable ones - Swiss, Colombia, Belgium, again maybe Uruguay.)

Colombia is ranked #4 and Uruguay is ranked #6 in the FIFA World rankings.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - we're not beating Colombia or Uruguay 99 times out of 100.

I thought maybe we had a shot against Colombia, but that was before I remembered the strength of their team. They've got a lot of strong defenders in their early-peak, some crazy talented midfielders (James Rodriguez anyone?), and Falcao up top.

And Uruguay - I'd actually argue that they're underrated. They've got some talent in midfield, and then their forwards - hell I think they might have one of the deepest attacking groups in the tournament: Forlan (if he has anything left in the tank), Cavani, Luis Suarez, and Abel Hernandez (if he puts it together). FIFA rankings be damned, I think Uruguay are a better team than Colombia, so that scares me even more about Colombia. LOL

MAYBE we scratch out a draw with Colombia. Maybe.

[Grover]

Must win match for Big Sam's reign at West Ham today. Crystal Palace with a new manager, even at home is fresh for picking off for three points. Right off the back of the Fulham win, two big wins on the trot would be massive.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by cartman

Colombia is ranked #4 and Uruguay is ranked #6 in the FIFA World rankings.

And Portugal is between them at #5. Would you take any of them over #9 Netherlands or #10 Brazil?

(More specifically, I think Uruguay straddles the line between beatable/top team because they are so dependent on 2 players that an injury between now and the WC could drastically change their level. Maybe I'm underrating Colombia, but I don't think they have the experience of other top level squads and could more easily fall apart. What's their best game in the last year - beating Belgium in a friendly? Tying Chile 3-3 at home after going down 3-0 at halftime?)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Yeah - we're not beating Colombia or Uruguay 99 times out of 100.

I thought maybe we had a shot against Colombia, but that was before I remembered the strength of their team. They've got a lot of strong defenders in their early-peak, some crazy talented midfielders (James Rodriguez anyone?), and Falcao up top.

And Uruguay - I'd actually argue that they're underrated. They've got some talent in midfield, and then their forwards - hell I think they might have one of the deepest attacking groups in the tournament: Forlan (if he has anything left in the tank), Cavani, Luis Suarez, and Abel Hernandez (if he puts it together). FIFA rankings be damned, I think Uruguay are a better team than Colombia, so that scares me even more about Colombia. LOL

MAYBE we scratch out a draw with Colombia. Maybe.

I would have loved to see your take on US vs. Columbia in 1994, US vs. Portugal in 2002, US vs. Italy in 2006, US vs. Spain at the Confed Cup, US vs. England 2010, etc. If our best players are healthy and on-form we can beat anyone outside of maybe Brazil playing at home.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I would have loved to see your take on US vs. Columbia in 1994, US vs. Portugal in 2002, US vs. Italy in 2006, US vs. Spain at the Confed Cup, US vs. England 2010, etc. If our best players are healthy and on-form we can beat anyone outside of maybe Brazil playing at home.

Colombia in 1994: were beatable IMO. Valderrama and a lot of guys who he made better with his service. Let's not forget they finished bottom of the group.
Portugal in 2002: was before CR7 let's not forget. They were (IIRC, given it's 11 years ago so it's hazy) seemingly pretty dependent on Luis Figo. Pauleta didn't scare me. Rui Costa did. I thought we had a chance at a 1-0 win, given that would have been an "upset" but yeah.
Italy in 2006: I was pleasantly shocked.
Spain: REALLY pleasantly shocked.
England in 2010: Figured it would be tight, but of all the European teams, England are the best matchup for USA IMO as they play a more physical, less-technical game. Probably a toss-up.

I'm a pessimist, I freely admit it.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Colombia in 1994: were beatable IMO. Valderrama and a lot of guys who he made better with his service. Let's not forget they finished bottom of the group.
Portugal in 2002: was before CR7 let's not forget. They were (IIRC, given it's 11 years ago so it's hazy) seemingly pretty dependent on Luis Figo. Pauleta didn't scare me. Rui Costa did. I thought we had a chance at a 1-0 win, given that would have been an "upset" but yeah.
Italy in 2006: I was pleasantly shocked.
Spain: REALLY pleasantly shocked.
England in 2010: Figured it would be tight, but of all the European teams, England are the best matchup for USA IMO as they play a more physical, less-technical game. Probably a toss-up.

I'm a pessimist, I freely admit it.

I still believe the single best game the United States has played in my lifetime was the 2002 Quarterfinals versus Germany. I don't know that the USA is capable of ever playing as well as they did in that game. They were absolutely fantastic.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by rowech

I still believe the single best game the United States has played in my lifetime was the 2002 Quarterfinals versus Germany. I don't know that the USA is capable of ever playing as well as they did in that game. They were absolutely fantastic.

I agree. That happened right after I started working in Europe, and many Germans told me that the US deserved to win that game.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by rowech

I still believe the single best game the United States has played in my lifetime was the 2002 Quarterfinals versus Germany. I don't know that the USA is capable of ever playing as well as they did in that game. They were absolutely fantastic.

Stop. You're going to make me cry. They should have won that game. Oliver Fucking-Unreal Kahn was the only reason they didn't. Well that and the hand of Torsten Frings (as unintentional as it may have been). I remember it to this day.

You're absolutely right - they were phenomenal in that game. Maybe it's the rose-colored glasses of history, but yeah I think you're right. Everyone was just spot-on in that game. Although the Confed Cup game against Spain has got to be right up there too, maybe just a notch lower because it wasn't a WC. I think that Spain team were certainly more talented then that German team, but as far as the game the US players played, you're absolutely right.

I don't quibble with what Bishop said about the US having the ability to beat anyone if the guys are playing at their best, it's just that for that to happen you need ALL the US players playing at their best in the same game, and that's such a flash-in-the-pan event.

Maybe that's what we lack, now that we're developing players with more technical ability, that's what pegs us down a notch, is the consistency.

If these current US players were either
a) more uniformly consistent/capable of putting out their best effort at their current skill levels
OR
b) had the same consistency overall but had say 2 players of exceptional skill (with higher individual consistency)

I think they'd take the leap into that next echelon of being seen as a WC favorite. Not a Brazil-level favorite, but a "other strong European teams" level favorite.

That 2002 team...man I miss those guys.

[DaddyTorgo]

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by rowech

I still believe the single best game the United States has played in my lifetime was the 2002 Quarterfinals versus Germany. I don't know that the USA is capable of ever playing as well as they did in that game. They were absolutely fantastic.

Exactly. We were thisclose to extra time/penalties for a semifinal berth while starting guys like Jeff Agoos, Pablo Mastroeni, Eddie Lewis and Tony Sanneh. Who knows if we'll play as well as they did (and get breaks like they did), but I would take the 2014 team over them in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by DT

Colombia in 1994: were beatable IMO. Valderrama and a lot of guys who he made better with his service. Let's not forget they finished bottom of the group.
Portugal in 2002: was before CR7 let's not forget. They were (IIRC, given it's 11 years ago so it's hazy) seemingly pretty dependent on Luis Figo. Pauleta didn't scare me. Rui Costa did. I thought we had a chance at a 1-0 win, given that would have been an "upset" but yeah.

It's easy to say now they were beatable, but that was the best Colombian and Portuguese teams in the modern era. Columbia was coming off an undefeated run through CONMEBOL qualifying and touted as a favorite by some. Portugal was in the midst of their Golden Generation's run and made the Euro 2000 Semis and Euro 2004 Final with basically the same team. I know pessimism's your shtick, but yeah I'd put us up against Colombia or Uruguay and think we had a decent chance at a result (certainly compared to Brazil, Spain, Argentina or Germany, which is how this argument got started. Heck, Belgium is probably a favorite against us, and the Swiss are obviously nearly impenetrable, but Pot A is all about making the best of a bad situation.)

[rowech]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I knew I shouldn't have watched that!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Exactly. We were thisclose to extra time/penalties for a semifinal berth while starting guys like Jeff Agoos, Pablo Mastroeni, Eddie Lewis and Tony Sanneh. Who knows if we'll play as well as they did (and get breaks like they did), but I would take the 2014 team over them in a heartbeat.

It's easy to say now they were beatable, but that was the best Colombian and Portuguese teams in the modern era. Columbia was coming off an undefeated run through CONMEBOL qualifying and touted as a favorite by some. Portugal was in the midst of their Golden Generation's run and made the Euro 2000 Semis and Euro 2004 Final with basically the same team. I know pessimism's your shtick, but yeah I'd put us up against Colombia or Uruguay and think we had a decent chance at a result (certainly compared to Brazil, Spain, Argentina or Germany, which is how this argument got started. Heck, Belgium is probably a favorite against us, and the Swiss are obviously nearly impenetrable, but Pot A is all about making the best of a bad situation.)

I think we have a better chance of a result against Colombia. I think we can cope with Colombia and get a draw against them. Maybe I was being too pessimistic...I think that's more of a toss-up style game where it's likely to end in a draw more often then not.

Uruguay's attack scares me against our young defense though. They make too many errors against bad teams - imagine if a Luis Suarez AND a Cavani are there to exploit them, instead of some CONCACAAF dude who is a bagger at a grocery-store instead of a pro?

That Portugal team in 2002 was good, but not SCARY. Greece also made a Euro Final let's not forget. Fluky things can happen.

Colombia was a beast in qualifying yeah, but don't forget they finished bottom of the group with a negative goal differential. I had to refresh my memory about their performance, but they were horrible in the first game, and I guess there was speculation about the cartel and some shady business causing them to lose their focus?

[Butter]

I remember how pissed I was after that Germany game. I'm still a little pissed. I mean the winner got South Korea in the semis, a completely winnable game for the right to face Brazil... and even though Brazil was not losing that game, you never know what could happen in a single game...

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Fantastic film about 94 Colombia and what went wrong

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I remember how pissed I was after that Germany game. I'm still a little pissed. I mean the winner got South Korea in the semis, a completely winnable game for the right to face Brazil... and even though Brazil was not losing that game, you never know what could happen in a single game...

Yeah - that was our path to a WC Final. Which would have been huge for the sport here in the US at least. Which is scary to think it would be even huger now.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Fantastic film about 94 Colombia and what went wrong

Thanks. I was only like what...15 at the time? Bit too young to dig into the "why?"

[Radii]

The Two Escobars is probably still my favorite 30 for 30, if anyone that shows up in the soccer thread here hasn't seen it its absolutely worth the 105 minute runtime.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Colombia was a beast in qualifying yeah, but don't forget they finished bottom of the group with a negative goal differential. I had to refresh my memory about their performance, but they were horrible in the first game, and I guess there was speculation about the cartel and some shady business causing them to lose their focus?

Yeah, but that's kinda the point - players get injured, weird things like players refusing to train happen, teams that really only play together 10 times a year have an off day etc and really talented teams that are considered contenders for the title are knocked out in the group stages sometimes. France/Portugal/Argentina in 2002, France and Italy in 2010. Outside of maybe a true group of death like Brazil, Chile and Netherlands, it's gonna come down to whether we play well. I doubt we'll be a favorite to go through, but give me a healthy Dempsey, Donovan, Jozy and Bradley and we've at least got a puncher's chance in any group - certainly better than anyone would have given our 1994 or 2002 teams that did make it through. (And on the flip side if we play poorly, it won't matter how easy our group is like in 1998.)

[molson]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

T

Of course, the simulator has been updated to reflect the Pots as well...

2014 FIFA World Cup Group stage Draws Simulator

That is fun to play with but I wish it simulated the knock-out round. And I'm not sure the "random" group stage simulation is based on how good the teams are.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Radii

The Two Escobars is probably still my favorite 30 for 30, if anyone that shows up in the soccer thread here hasn't seen it its absolutely worth the 105 minute runtime.

Dunno how I missed it - looking forward to it tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

Love that cousin of Pablo Escobar - what a whitewash he's trying to do on his cousin.

[JetsIn06]

Just tried that simulator thing, and my results were worth sharing:

Argentina
France
USA
Italy

[cartman]

Juventus fined 5,000 Euros, after schoolkids shouted "SHIT" every time the opposing goalie kicked the ball.

Juventus fined after schoolchildren abuse Udinese goalkeeper | inside World Soccer

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Juventus fined 5,000 Euros, after schoolkids shouted "SHIT" every time the opposing goalie kicked the ball.

Juventus fined after schoolchildren abuse Udinese goalkeeper | inside World Soccer

Sorry but thats pathetic if all the shouted was 'shit' and there was no racism etc. involved ... attempting to distract opposition players, especially keepers is part and parcel of professional football and supporters have always done it.

Nothing wrong with it imho and it makes for a more 'interactive' and emotive experience if supporters are involved in the game, nothing would be more tedious than having to sit there and clap sedately and say 'good play' occasionally ...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cartman

Juventus fined 5,000 Euros, after schoolkids shouted "SHIT" every time the opposing goalie kicked the ball.

Juventus fined after schoolchildren abuse Udinese goalkeeper | inside World Soccer

Yeah, talk about your stupid fines.

[bhlloy]

Suarez really hates yellow or something... 3 hat tricks vs Norwich in 3 seasons. First goal was unreal, third was supposedly just as good but haven't seen a gif of that one yet

[Grover]

Everton supporters singing "Are you watching David Moyes, are you watching?"

Brilliant.

[Flasch186]

4 goals for Suarez

[bhlloy]

United will show patience with Moyes but if he can't even get them into Europe I'm not sure they have a choice. They are terrible.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by cartman

Colombia is ranked #4 and Uruguay is ranked #6 in the FIFA World rankings.

This may be a really dumb question but Colombia isnt normally a contender are they? Usually I dont pay much attention but I have some interest in the World Cup and I cant re-call hearing much or anything about them actually.

[MIJB#19]

Draw day!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Draw day!

Less than an hour to go. It'll be on ESPN2 here in the US.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm all alone in the office. Do you think I'm turning the draw on the TV? You bet your ass.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And Portugal is between them at #5. Would you take any of them over #9 Netherlands or #10 Brazil?

(More specifically, I think Uruguay straddles the line between beatable/top team because they are so dependent on 2 players that an injury between now and the WC could drastically change their level. Maybe I'm underrating Colombia, but I don't think they have the experience of other top level squads and could more easily fall apart. What's their best game in the last year - beating Belgium in a friendly? Tying Chile 3-3 at home after going down 3-0 at halftime?)

Despite all the flaws in the FIFA Ranking, it sort of does the job to rank teams based on how they have done in the past years, heavily geared towards the current year.

The real problem is using those rankings for the draw, or even using this seeding teams format. It would be much better to make it completely random and only limit the ability to have teams of the same continent. Looking at, for example, the USA, now they basically are locked into getting one of three options:
South American, European, African
South American, European, European
European, European, African
I think there should be some option open for the USA to draw an Asian team, but that's excluded as an option already.

[Northwood_DK]

I am really looking forward to this.

France (Michel Platini) rigged the draw and now the European team that will be moved to the second pot have the potential to provide some real drama.

Both Holland and Italy would have been in front of Switzerland in the FIFA ranking if they had NOT played games against minor nations earlier in the year

[MIJB#19]

Ugh, I should have brushed up my Portuguese for the draw...

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Northwood_DK

I am really looking forward to this.

France (Michel Platini) rigged the draw and now the European team that will be moved to the second pot have the potential to provide some real drama.

Both Holland and Italy would both have been in front of Switzerland in the FIFA ranking if they had NOT played games against minor nations earlier in the year

It's a shame that winning friendlies in and against China and Indonesia punishes a team that had the best results of all qualified teams in the qualifying campaign.

[DaddyTorgo]

Only 90% of Spain was watching in 2010?

WTF is wrong with 10% of the population? Are there that many blind & deaf people?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Despite all the flaws in the FIFA Ranking, it sort of does the job to rank teams based on how they have done in the past years, heavily geared towards the current year.

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

It's a shame that winning friendlies in and against China and Indonesia punishes a team that had the best results of all qualified teams in the qualifying campaign.

I stand by the statement that the #9 Dutch have played objectively better than Uruguay, Colombia and Portugal over almost any ranking period you want to use. I'd also say #10 Brazil is much better than those 3, but I understand that not playing competitive qualifying matches really throws off any system.

[bhlloy]

Jesus this is painful. Just put the instructions on the screen and do the damn draw

[MacroGuru]

Anywhere to watch the draw live online besides ESPN?

[MIJB#19]

Awesome, Italy got thrown into the 3rd seeds pot.

[DaddyTorgo]

Here we go...

[DaddyTorgo]

Phew...avoided Brazil and Spain.

[DaddyTorgo]

Group E is a joke.

We're going to get Germany or Argentina.

[DaddyTorgo]

Gimme Belguim!!