2016 NFL Week 1

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Galaril

The first one was hands to the face frankly by both players so should have been offsetting. Holding on that play by two Panthers but I forgot we are ignoring one so will move on..... Second one was border line and Collingsworth said as much.

football is weird because a vicious helmet to helmet penalty is offset by intentional grounding.

[TroyF]

1 - Unbelievable. My team has become the Patriots. Great team, but holy hell have we been lucky over the last couple of years.

2 - Let me be clear here: I have ZERO problems with the hands to the face call on Harris at the end of the game. A foul is a foul. Period. But am I a huge homer to ask where that call was on the Panthers TD pass when Miller got drilled to the face multiple times by the Panthers offensive lineman?

3 - I would have been happy with this game no matter how it ended. Siemien looked good, even with the two bad turnovers. We played the Panthers to a draw and that kid made some huge passes. Anyone who is waiting for the Denver team to fold this year is likely going to have a bad time. If the QB can play that well, this team is going to do very well this year. Let's face it, the Panthers are a damned good football team. We aren't facing many teams that are at their level.

4 - The cheap shot from Stewart should have been an immediate ejection and I think that type of foul should override any other penalty. Stewart should be suspended for a couple of weeks. He won't be, but he should.

5 - I'm so glad the NFL is back.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Hardly Burfict-esque. Newton lowered his helmet as much

I refuse to believe cam isn't concussed. He's taken a few brutal hits to the helmet. Some of them have even been called!

Wonder what the fine and suspension will be?

[Suicane75]

So did Marshawn Lynch just not wanna do the whole training camp, pre season deal?

[Chief Rum]

I understand it is legal and I am fine with those who are okay with it, but it still doesn't settle well with me when a coach calls timeout right before the snap of the FG kick. It's a chickenshit move.

And not surprised it is Kubiak cuz he learned at the foot of King Chickenshit Shanahan himself.

All that said, it was a great game on both sides. I'm looking forward to a fun season of football.

[MrBug708]

I think it's almost expected to call it.

Icing the Kicker Doesn’t Work «

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I think it's almost expected to call it.

Icing the Kicker Doesn’t Work «

Doesn't make it right.

[mckerney]

Oh yay, this season starts the same way the last one ended. With cheaters winning.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Doesn't make it right.

I hate it too, but it is expected and just about every coach does it. Shanahan started it, I hates it when he did it, I hate it now. But. . . as you said, it is legal. A professional kicker should get over it and hit the kick.

[dacman]

Got an email from AT&T yesterday. They're given me a 'loyalty bonus'. Sunday Ticket. Free. (FYI -- AT&T owns DirecTV now).

Really? Hot damn. Anyone else?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Oh yay, this season starts the same way the last one ended. With cheaters winning.

I know Denver cheated in 98. I know we had the douche from NE whose name I wont type who cheated with a video camera like his old and now current boss. Is there something else I am missing beyond that?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Oh yay, this season starts the same way the last one ended. With cheaters winning.

But the Patriots haven't even played yet....

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I know Denver cheated in 98. I know we had the douche from NE whose name I wont type who cheated with a video camera like his old and now current boss. Is there something else I am missing beyond that?

The Broncos Went At Cam Newton's Head All Night

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Broncos Went At Cam Newton's Head All Night

Reports here are saying the Broncos D line were irate after the game that the Panthers Oline were targeting the Broncos front seven . I am not sure what they are referring to exactly- shots to the knees, head. But, like the shots to the head meh it's football. If it is a penalty call it and throw the guy out.

[MrBug708]

If teams getting penalties, is cheating, everyone cheats

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Reports here are saying the Bronocos Dline were irate after the game that the Panthers Oline was targeting the Broncos front seven . I am not sure what they are referring to exactly- shots to the knees, head. But, like the shots to the head meh it's football. If it is a penalty call it and throw the guy out.

How's the hangover?

[flere-imsaho]

It's pretty astonishing to me that the league can't see the danger in allowing a strategy of using brain trauma to win a game to succeed. If there is an existential threat to the NFL, it is undoubtedly this. Already parents are pulling kids out of tackle football due to these fears (discussion) and games like last night's are simply a reinforcement for why.

[Kodos]

They need to put soft shell of some sort over the helmet to make it less tempting as a weapon. Maybe go back to leather helmets.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Reports here are saying the Bronocos Dline were irate after the game that the Panthers Oline was targeting the Broncos front seven . I am not sure what they are referring to exactly- shots to the knees, head. But, like the shots to the head meh it's football. If it is a penalty call it and throw the guy out.

The Denver D-Line is always whining about blocks to the legs. They complain about it every time they play the Chiefs. It's legal whether they like it or not. There was nothing legal about the shots that Newton took to the head. Thankfully, we're likely to see a huge crackdown going forward (probably Sunday) after the embarrassing PR hit that the NFL is taking over what happened last night.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Broncos Went At Cam Newton's Head All Night

1 - I've already commented on the Stewart hit.It was a dirty, brutal, cheap shot. It should have been an ejection. The grounding penalty should have been canceled out (I know the rules, but I don't agree with them in cases like that) I missed the B Marsh hit, but yeah, I don't have a problem if he'd have been ejected either. Cheap shot. The Von Miller hit to the head? Ummm, really? Even the article says that Ware sacked him into Miller. If Von were targeting there, he'd have put the crown of his helmet into him.

2 -I think the Panthers were just as cheap in a lot of areas. For anyone who actually bothered to watch the line play instead of just the ball, the Panthers lineman were BRUTAL last night. Seriously, I'm not making this up. Watch highlights of the game and watch the Panthers offensive line. Shots to the face, neck (Wolfe commented on it this morning, I saw the play in real time he's talking about and it should have been called) late hits, taunting penalties.. .

3 - Cheaters for that? Umm, you really need to learn the definition of the word. The two hits on Cam were dirty, they weren't cheating. That's up to the refs to take care of. I don't think the Panthers cheated by taking shots at Wolfe';s head that led to a neck injury. I think the OL was dirty. The ref has the ability to take action and make calls to end that type of play. Call the game to where it is played like an MMA match, the players are going to play the game like it's an MMA match.

4 - I hope the league sends a message to all of the Broncos players that those types of hits aren't acceptable. I would LOVE to see BMarch and Stewart suspended. I would cheer for it. Just to make sure this doesn't end on point 2 and 3, I'll reiterate, there is no place in the game for shots like those. They should take action against both players and the team should be warned.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Reports here are saying the Bronocos Dline were irate after the game that the Panthers Oline was targeting the Broncos front seven . I am not sure what they are referring to exactly- shots to the knees, head. But, like the shots to the head meh it's football. If it is a penalty call it and throw the guy out.

heads. . . repeatedly, head shot after head shot. I can't believe the people on this forum didn't see it. I expect the idiot fans to not notice. I truly thought there would be comments on it here because it was blatant and happened from the first play of the game on.

Edit: Don't forget the cheap shot the OL tried to put on Harris, he just didn't connect. The Panthers OL was amped last night and I understand why after the Super Bowl. But they were DIRTY as all hell. That's not just my orange colored glasses talking

[Suicane75]

I'm getting more and more uncomfortable watching NFL football. There were so many instances last night of people trying to hurt other people. Not tackle, not block, but out and out injure. It's not a lot of fun to watch.

I don't have a solution that's feasible, but I'd start with making any and all hits that don't involve arm tackling, illegal.

[Arles]

First, I really enjoyed last night's game. It was one of the best opening games I can remember - a lot of drama. I think the Panthers are a very good team and I think the Broncos will be a lot better than people were giving them credit for.

But, the NFL should either stick to the current concussion protocol at all times or amend it to be "anyone can play the game if they seem fit, but we will check them at halftime or directly following the game if there is a questionable hit". Their current protocol appears to be "everyone must follow the concussion protocol at all times - unless you are a QB or important skill player and the game is in balance late". There is no way that Cam wasn't concussed after the Stewart hit. He got up all wobbly and completely airmailed the next throw to buy himself a breather. For the NFL observers to say that there was no sign of a concussion during the game - but pull out Brandon Marshall for a much lesser hit earlier in the game - is just disingenuous.

The NFL says its spotters saw "no indications of a concussion" for Cam Newton: https://t.co/2DVhLPnkVL pic.twitter.com/Xx5zMPBpZs

— SB Nation (@SBNation) September 9, 2016

[Ned Doolittle]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'm getting more and more uncomfortable watching NFL football. There were so many instances last night of people trying to hurt other people. Not tackle, not block, but out and out injure. It's not a lot of fun to watch.

I don't have a solution that's feasible, but I'd start with making any and all hits that don't involve arm tackling, illegal.

Why have a defense side of the ball then? The league is already so pro-offense that defenders are shackled enough.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'm getting more and more uncomfortable watching NFL football. There were so many instances last night of people trying to hurt other people. Not tackle, not block, but out and out injure. It's not a lot of fun to watch.

I don't have a solution that's feasible, but I'd start with making any and all hits that don't involve arm tackling, illegal.

Last night was one of the single dirtiest NFL games I've seen in the last five years. I think both sides were disgusting and some of the things that went on were simply mind boggling. There has been alink to how horrible Denver was. Here is a play on Carolina which was not called. Watch #42 closely as he gets up from the tackle.

Streamable - simple video sharing

I don't want to see what I saw last night. I I really, really hope that's an aberration.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Arles

First, I really enjoyed last night's game. It was one of the best opening games I can remember - a lot of drama. I think the Panthers are a very good team and I think the Broncos will be a lot better than people were giving them credit for.

But, the NFL should either stick to the current concussion protocol at all times or amend it to be "anyone can play the game if they seem fit, but we will check them at halftime or directly following the game if there is a questionable hit". Their current protocol appears to be "everyone must follow the concussion protocol at all times - unless you are a QB or important skill player and the game is in balance late". There is no way that Cam wasn't concussed after the Stewart hit. He got up all wobbly and completely airmailed the next throw to buy himself a breather. For the NFL observers to say that there was no sign of a concussion during the game - but pull out Brandon Marshall for a much lesser hit earlier in the game - is just disingenuous.

I was wondering about this too. I figured there was no way they were going to pull Cam in a game like this, but also figured that if ever there were a time where the "spotter" needs to pull a player, it was after that hit, especially how Cam rolled around.

Don't know how to fix that, but am in agreement that if they have the rule, it should be enforced at all times.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Why have a defense side of the ball then? The league is already so pro-offense that defenders are shackled enough.

You can't be serious. Shoulder and helmet hits are designed to punish as much as stop the player. Football was fine for nearly a century without that crap. If you can't stop a guy or bring him down using your arms and actually tackling him, then get off the damn field.

At some point tackling became hitting, and it's dangerous, stupid, and unnecessary.

[Arles]

Honestly, I would be OK with a rule that if an illegal hit caused the potential concussion - you can pause the game for 5-10 minutes. Let the player go through the protocol and then resume once he either passes (and can come back in) or fails (and has to stay out). Maybe even eject the offending player or add additional yardage if the player fails and is out for the game.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Arles

Honestly, I would be OK with a rule that if an illegal hit caused the potential concussion - you can pause the game for 5-10 minutes. Let the player go through the protocol and then resume once he either passes (and can come back in) or fails (and has to stay out). Maybe even eject the offending player or add additional yardage if the player fails and is out for the game.

do you know how long this would make the games? They're already redic as is.

[Ned Doolittle]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

You can't be serious. Shoulder and helmet hits are designed to punish as much as stop the player. Football was fine for nearly a century without that crap. If you can't stop a guy or bring him down using your arms and actually tackling him, then get off the damn field.

At some point tackling became hitting, and it's dangerous, stupid, and unnecessary.

Hence the large salary. They are compensated for the beating they take. Or else anyone would do it. Same reason why you had to pay ppl a ton of money to step into the same ring as Mike Tyson back in the day. No one takes a beating for free.

That's why you have to be tough to go over the middle to catch a pass and hold on to it knowing you're gonna get clocked.

I don't want ppl dying on the field or becoming paralyzed, but if a bunch of ppl who get paid lots of money gotta get the crap beat out of them for my entertainment so be it. Otherwise let's let women play the sport.

[wustin]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

I don't want ppl dying on the field or becoming paralyzed, but if a bunch of ppl who get paid lots of money gotta get the crap beat out of them for my entertainment so be it. Otherwise let's let women play the sport.

"They get paid a lot of money, therefore it's okay to take concussive hits to the head."

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

I don't want ppl dying on the field

Why not? You seem to be comfortable with them dying prematurely in their forties.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

I don't want ppl dying on the field or becoming paralyzed, but if a bunch of ppl who get paid lots of money gotta get the crap beat out of them for my entertainment so be it.

1. I love it when people contradict themselves in the space of a single sentence. Let's re-word that sentence for clarity:

"I'm OK with paying people a lot of money to get the crap beat out of them for my entertainment, but I don't want them becoming paralyzed or dying because of it."

2. Uh, so people are already dying and being paralyzed (or having other chronic conditions) because of it. So why are you still watching.

3. I'm pretty sure statements like this accompanied the fall of the Roman Empire.

Otherwise let's let women play the sport.

Oh hey! With added misogyny! Gold Star!

[djsatu]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I'm getting more and more uncomfortable watching NFL football. There were so many instances last night of people trying to hurt other people. Not tackle, not block, but out and out injure. It's not a lot of fun to watch.

I don't have a solution that's feasible, but I'd start with making any and all hits that don't involve arm tackling, illegal.

Its going to change when somebody dies, and at this rate it will happen. The blows to the end are getting crazy.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

How's the hangover?

Wasn't drinking actually for once:-)

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=Suicane75;3117731]

At some point tackling became hitting, and it's dangerous, stupid, and unnecessary.

You mean my entire lifetime, at least? (And I'm one of the older guys around here, even moreso if you don't count Bucc in the avg)

The game is already watered down so much as to be barely recognizable at times, I don't know how much more you can soften it without being better off killing it entirely.

[AlexB]

[quote=JonInMiddleGA;3117748]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

You mean my entire lifetime, at least? (And I'm one of the older guys around here, even moreso if you don't count Bucc in the avg)

The game is already watered down so much as to be barely recognizable at times, I don't know how much more you can soften it without being better off killing it entirely.

I love the game, but a question for all: we play rugby, the hits are hard, but because of less padding tacklers take more care of their own body and just charging without wrapping is illegal.

Would removing pads and helmets actually make the game less enjoyable, if it meant more emphasis on wrapping, timing and technique?

Edit to add: i know it will never happen, just a discussion point.

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=AlexB;3117751]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Would removing pads and helmets actually make the game less enjoyable, if it meant more emphasis on wrapping, timing and technique?

Edit to add: i know it will never happen, just a discussion point.

My guess is that, overall, yes it would make the game less enjoyable for spectators (and honestly for a fairly large number of players too). Velocity & impact are a rather large part of the sheer spectacle and therefore of the entertainment value.

Short of a game-winning score maybe, nothing gets quite the reaction of a big hit, even at the lowest levels of the game. Even when you're down by 53 points in the third quarter, a rib-rocker or even a TKO will energize & elevate the fans on the short end of the scoreboard (I've seen that play out my whole life). I'm not sure that can really truly be replaced.

[CU Tiger]

[quote=JonInMiddleGA;3117748]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

You mean my entire lifetime, at least? (And I'm one of the older guys around here, even moreso if you don't count Bucc in the avg)

The game is already watered down so much as to be barely recognizable at times, I don't know how much more you can soften it without being better off killing it entirely.

It amazes me to hear folsk claim the game is too violent today. I wonder if they remember an era where Deacon Jones actually got endorsement deals based on his ability to slap helmets so hard it stunned most and knocked down/out several players mid play.

No one who doesn't play the sport wants to hear this. But take anyone my age or older (approaching 40, quickly) who hasnt played or coached a game in a decade plus and hand them a modern helmet and record the reaction.

Increased concussion rates are real. But not because the game is getting more violent. They are real because helmets are lighter and thinner in the name of speed and cost improvement. I graduated High School in the mid 90s. My coach gave me my high school helmet at our senior banquet. Largely tongue in cheek because they had ordered the first 2XL helmet in school history just to fit my head. My son is a sophomore in high school. He wears a 2XL helmet. My helmet weighs twice as much as what his does. That extra weight insulated better. You will never convince me otherwise. He and I are a weird pair. We each recently took a turn slapping each other in the head as hard as we could on opposite sides wearing both helmets. We both agree his hurt a lot worse....and if I am being honest I saw white dots for several seconds after his slap wearing his helmet not so with mine.

Ive told this to everyone who will listen everytime I get their ear. I get a lot of eye rolls and "yeah rights" and "helmet research is at an all time high"s. I'm not educated or financially capable of testing my theory, but I wil take it to my grave.

[TroyF]

BSN Broncos on Twitter: ".@darianstewart26 definitely not aiming for head. Level stayed the same but Newton dropped his head at last second https://t.co/8n1GHo0fXc"


I disagree with this, but this is the other side of the Stewert hit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=CU Tiger;3117755]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It amazes me to hear folsk claim the game is too violent today. I wonder if they remember an era where Deacon Jones actually got endorsement deals based on his ability to slap helmets so hard it stunned most and knocked down/out several players mid play.

Night Train Lane
Willie Lanier
Hacksaw Reynolds
Jack Tatum
Jack Lambert
John Lynch
Deacon Jones
Steve Atwater

That's about, what, 5 decades of guys who were among the best to ever play their position. And 5 decades worth of guys who would need a separate accountant just to pay their fines in today's watered down game.

Whatever it is, hitting -- and with considerably bad intentions -- isn't anything new in the NFL.

[AlexB]

[quote=JonInMiddleGA;3117754]

Originally Posted by AlexB

My guess is that, overall, yes it would make the game less enjoyable for spectators (and honestly for a fairly large number of players too). Velocity & impact are a rather large part of the sheer spectacle and therefore of the entertainment value.

Short of a game-winning score maybe, nothing gets quite the reaction of a big hit, even at the lowest levels of the game. Even when you're down by 53 points in the third quarter, a rib-rocker or even a TKO will energize & elevate the fans on the short end of the scoreboard (I've seen that play out my whole life). I'm not sure that can really truly be replaced.

That hit could still happen with the shoulder in the midriff of a receiver, which causes the receivers body to whiplash, which looks pretty spectacular, like a real life spear, and feels good if your dishing it out (from what I remember!). Still get the velocity, although the noise of the impact is definitely less.

I worry that the game will die unless something changes. In todays litigious world it's only a matter of time IMHO.

[JonInMiddleGA]

[quote=AlexB;3117758]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That hit could still happen with the shoulder in the midriff of a receiver, which causes the receivers body to whiplash, which looks pretty spectacular, like a real life spear, and feels good if your dishing it out (from what I remember!). Still get the velocity, although the noise of the impact is definitely less

Quick, what's the most visible & memorable rugby moment in recent years (possible ever) in the U.S.?

I'm going to go with Kathryn Johnson's attempt to decapitate the Aussie in the Olympics.

[CU Tiger]

Can I just say I love the repeated quote failures in this thread

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by TroyF

BSN Broncos on Twitter: ".@darianstewart26 definitely not aiming for head. Level stayed the same but Newton dropped his head at last second https://t.co/8n1GHo0fXc"


I disagree with this, but this is the other side of the Stewert hit.

Yup that is the way I saw it.

[AlexB]

[quote=JonInMiddleGA;3117759]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Quick, what's the most visible & memorable rugby moment in recent years (possible ever) in the U.S.?

I'm going to go with Kathryn Johnson's attempt to decapitate the Aussie in the Olympics.

Carlin Isles, your winger who is a legit 100m sprinter is the only US rugby highlight I know from ever tbh!

Edit - that question is like me asking this forum to recall the best football highlight from the UK!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by stevew

do you know how long this would make the games? They're already redic as is.

There's 0-2 concussions a game max that would fit this rule (looks concussed after a hit that was flagged for a personal foul). The process to check take between 8 and 12 minutes. So, you would have been outraged if we had a 10 minute pause after the hit (we already had a 5-6 minute pause while the refs sorted out the fouls)? If Cam was immediately sent for a check after the play, we would have had to wait about an extra 5 minutes for the results (after the personal foul was announced). So, for a 3+ hour game, we can't wait 5 minutes once a game to ensure a player who got hit with a cheapshot isn't going to play with a concussion? Again, this is only if it was caused by a personal foul.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yup that is the way I saw it.

I said I disagreed with it and I'll share my reason:

He was going in with the crown of his helmet from the start. At BEST, he was going to spear Cam Newton in the chest. That's a cheap shot. At worst, what happened was going to happen. It was a dirty play, even if it ended up being more dirty because Cam ducked his head.

The Marshall one was as well.

The one that I do not get and absolutely do not understand all the hate it is getting is the Von Miller one. He went in eyes up. There was no crown showing and zero intent to drive into Cam's head. He beat his guy was going for the tackle and Cam ends up falling right into him. That's not dirty or cheap.

I still think Stewart and Marshall should be suspended for next weeks game. Nobody will convince me otherwise.

BUT. . . the other thing people won't convince me of is that the Panthers were innocent bystanders in this. Their got the most video tape because, well, CAM FREAKING NEWTON. (one of the best QB's in this league, period) yet the shot on Wolfe, the cheap shot the offensive lineman attempted to put on Harris (a guy laying on the ground), the punt return tackler I highlighted above, the consistent hands to the face and shots to the head of their offensive lineman. . . none of that has been highlighted and people act as though it didn't happen.

Well, it DID freaking happen. The refs let that game get out of control and they let it get out early. (Again, watch the TD pass to Benjamin. While Collinsworth is yapping about how amazing Cam's shorter drops are hurting Von Miller, they show the replay and the Panthers tackle has BOTH hands on Von's face mask shoving his head back. That isn't "clean" at any level of football, but the refs let that stuff go all night.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Edit - that question is like me asking this forum to recall the best football highlight from the UK!

Okay, but has their been one/some, in the mainstream? I'm going to guess that there have been, if only because of NFL visits and such.

The would-be decapitation during the Olympics might very well be the only time anything rugby related has been a mainstream sports moment in the U.S.

FTR, I'm not hatin' on the game at all. I've known players from the at-the-park level to amateur club level going back 25+ years, I respect what they do & the difficulty in doing it. I'm just pointing out what it took to actually get 15 seconds of notice here.

[Comey]

Reports are that Gronk is out this week. Bleh.