"Matrix: Reloaded" first thoughts

[iceberg414]

i was just re-watching the first. it's so cool because there is lots of forshadowing into the first and the second. i also just picked up the game hoping that is cool.

some of my thoughts:

the "real world" is an add on to matrix, not really "real"
(interesting, i had to read an essay and our topic was to define "real." there were 4 definitions: real as impact ie weather,etc. the real as make believe/fantasy, the real as every day life and the forth eludes me, but)

neo or the "one" is a program

there is more to it than just man vs machine, the whole council man speach. man needs machine, machine needs man. this trilogy is not just about this there has to be more.

i watched the 4 free episodes on the website. pretty cool. the first show how man and machine coexisted then the machines formed their own city/society. they always wanted to live together with humans, but man wouldn't accept it.

if star trek fans are trekies and harry potter fans are potter heads what are matrix fans? cuz that is what i am. i'm so enthralled with "The Matrix"

[dacman]

I thought the Frenchman was a previous "One," (I remember his wife telling Neo he is like what the Frenchman was like in the past). Well, that's all I could come up with anyway.

Also, the guy in Xion trying to kill Neo is YAAS -- Yet Another Agent Smith?????? If not, then I'm throughly confused.

[BishopMVP]

Originally posted by dacman
Also, the guy in Xion trying to kill Neo is YAAS -- Yet Another Agent Smith?????? If not, then I'm throughly confused.

If you mean the guy carrying the knife about to stab Neo before the annoying kid shows up with the spoon, then yes that is Agent Smith. It is the same guy they show on the bed opposite Neo in the end as the "sole survivor" of the ships that were destroyed by the machines.

[Easy Mac]

Originally posted by BishopMVP
If you mean the guy carrying the knife about to stab Neo before the annoying kid shows up with the spoon, then yes that is Agent Smith. It is the same guy they show on the bed opposite Neo in the end as the "sole survivor" of the ships that were destroyed by the machines.

yes

[Mantle2600]

***Spoilers***

























here is the cconverstaion between neo and the architect.
Architect: Hello Neo
Neo: Who are you?
A: I am the architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
Neo: Why am I here?
A: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation, inherit to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden insidiously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably here.
Neo: You haven’t answered my question.
A: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker than the others.
Neo: Others? ***
A: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.
Neo: *** There are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.
A: Precisely, as you were undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
Neo: ***Choice. The problem is choice.

A: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art, flawless, sublime; a triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherit in every human being; thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesques of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer alluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the perimeters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the Father of the Matrix, she would undoubtedly be its Mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
A: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice even at an unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked, might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if left unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.
A: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed, its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo: Bull****
A: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

A: The function of The One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry re-inserting the prime program, after which you will be required to select from the Matrix twenty three individuals, sixteen female, seven male, to re-build Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo: You won’t let it happen, you can’t, you need human beings to survive
A: There are levels of survival we are prepared to except. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to except the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting to read you reactions, your five predecessors were by design, based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of The One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. These of the….Love
Neo: Trinity....
A: Apropos she entered the Matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.
Neo: No...
A: Which brings us at last, to the moment of truth where in the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both the beginning and the end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door on your left leads back to the Matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice, but we already know what you are going to do, don’t we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical pre-cursors that signal the unset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth, she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it
Neo: *walks towards the door on the left*
A: Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of you greatest strength and you greatest weakness.
Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we wouldn’t meet again.
A: We won’t....

[Honolulu_Blue]

Wow. Those CHUD dudes are some pretentious f*ckers. Some smart, interesting stuff nonetheless.

I can't see where people are getting the idea that Zion fell. I thought it was pretty clear that five ships were sent up to attack the sentinals at a specific cut-off place (some tunnel or something) and were wiped out in a massacare. So those five ships, who planned the ambush, were wiped out, not Zion. That's how it went down. None of this fall of Zion crapola.

[BishopMVP]

H_B - I'm still not sure if it was only 5 ships or a larger number in a counterattack. They say something like "After the EMP went off early, 5 ships were lost and when the machines broke through it was a slaughter," which I thought implied that there were maybe 30 or 40 ships but that the machines exploited the breach in the lines to destroy the ships. Either way, I agree about people not understanding that Zion was not destroyed.

[The Afoci]

I just watched the movie last night, and I got the feeling that the "war" is more the machines against the "first" programs, not the humans. It seems pretty clear to me that the programs are the only way the humans can win, so the machines want the programs dead. The humans want the machines dead. The programs want to keep the humans alive so the the matrix is still around and not "reloaded". But they want the machines around, because if the humans win, the matrix will be gone and so will they.

Overall I thought it was a sweet movie though. I definately need to see it again.

[Fritz]

I didn't think the movie was that good. Yes, the fights were nice (a tad long), and the fx we decent, but the story had the potential to be developed much better. I would be interested to see a different take on this by a director who was not hung up on the fx.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by Fritz
I didn't think the movie was that good. Yes, the fights were nice (a tad long), and the fx we decent, but the story had the potential to be developed much better. I would be interested to see a different take on this by a director who was not hung up on the fx.

I wouldn't blame either directors' enfatuation with great FX for the shortcomings of this film. There were a ton of effects. A ton. And most quite excellent (though some parts were a reach. A decent effort, but a reach nonetheless). I don't think this movie suffered from Effects Masturbation (see: new Star Wars flicks) where it seems Lucas can't get enough of his goofy CGI nonsense and new tricks so much that the plot, story, and dialogue suffer a horrible fate.

This movie seemed to get bogged down on too much exposition if any thing. There was too much "tell" and not enough "show." All of this talk about old, obsolete programs hiding out, being afraid of deletion and being super-powerful or being vampires/werewolves, or whatever. Was kind of dull. In the first movie when you learned about the Matrix, they showed you stuff. There was some exposition, but most of it occurred while we saw Neo (or others) experience it. Here there was just bla, blah, blah, FIGHT! Blah, blah, blah, FIGHT!

I agree the fights were cool, but too long. I don't think this movie suffered because of too much attention to FX though.

[Marc Vaughan]

I thought the film was ok, but didn't 'gel' particularly well.

I got the impression the director had a tick list of 'needed' features in the film:

* Cool Fight Sequences
(tick)
* Hunky Hero
(tick)
* Romantic Canoodling for ladies
(tick)
* Twists to storyline
(tick)
* End Hook to get people back for No.3
(tick)

But it didn't feel that it naturally hung as well together as in some films ...

Plus:

* What happened to Neo's superhacker powers that he had at the end of the first film?
* If the machines are so smart then why not give humans the 'choice' of staying in the matrix and if they don't just kill them - the problem was that originally they had no choice hence the matrix didn't work - when they rebel they have no idea what they're in for hence the choice and the matrix would still function.

(but as one of my frieds said - I think too much about these things )

[John Galt]

Originally posted by Marc Vaughan

* What happened to Neo's superhacker powers that he had at the end of the first film?
* If the machines are so smart then why not give humans the 'choice' of staying in the matrix and if they don't just kill them - the problem was that originally they had no choice hence the matrix didn't work - when they rebel they have no idea what they're in for hence the choice and the matrix would still function.

(but as one of my frieds said - I think too much about these things )

For the first question, I think his powers clearly still exist, but the enemies are either "upgrades," "changed" (like Smith), or from some older version of the Matrix. His powers are virtually unlimited, but virtually is still not completely. And he seems to flex his "hacking" muscles pretty well.

As for the choice issue, I think the architect implies three things of relevance. First, is that very few really choose to be in the Matrix on a conscious level. I imagine it would be hard to find those people at the beginning as well. Second, a Matrix of self-selected people who are happy in fantasyland may have a lot of the same acceptance problems of the early Matrixes. Third, the threat of death (even if the computers hid it) would probably make a lot of people pretend to like the Matrix. And once they know it is an illusion, they would be more dangerous.

Anyway, I probably think too much about these things as well.

[Easy Mac]

I've always wondered, the agents in The Matrix could basically jump into anyone they wanted so long as they were still connected to the matrix (though Smith expanded on that now). So in the first one, at the first sign of someone rejecting it (like when they were talking to Neo in the first movie, and had him in the room alone) why not take over the person like they do innocent bystanders. Then they could shoot the person they take over, killing the potential trouble maker? Wouldn't this be easier than chasing after the One all the time and letting more and more people out? Or would this have made the movie too short?

Oh, and if this turns out to be a Matrix inside a Matrix a la the 13th Floor (decent movie), I'll be pissed. Be a stunning lack of originality, and make the movies feel very similar.

[Anthony]

i'm not buying that "Matrix in a Matrix" idea. it seems too predictable, and i thoroughly believe this movie was designed to baffle and bewilder. i don't think we are supposed to understand what's going on in Reloaded.

i didn't understand what the meaning of the Architect scene was when i saw it in the theatre, and now that i read the transcript here i still don't know what it's about. yes, i understand what's being said, but what is the storyteller trying to get at.

this brings me back to an earlier post about storytelling skills/responsibility. it is the storytellers responsibility to tell the story, make sure the audience understands what's going on so that while no spoonfeeding should be necessary - the audience can grasp what it is that the story teller is trying to say. i just want to say "in a nutshell - explain to me what it is you're trying to tell me when i see the architect scene." the only question the audience should have is what the moral of the story was, or what is the meaning to the movie. they shouldn't be asking "what's going on in this scene?".

dialogue-wise, the scenes with the architect and the french guy are poor - i see those two talking but i just don't comprehend what they're getting at. causality. choice. still don't get it, or i get it but can't tie it in to what frame of the Matrix story.

[Marc Vaughan]

French Chap/Architect -

What I believe they were indicating via. causality/choice is that effectively humans are simply biological machines and as such are programmed and therefore have no real choices.

(hence the architect mentioning the electrical impulses etc. when Neo makes his decision)

Following through with this idea, if humans are part of a computer program - it has a memory leak (ie. Zion - which accumulates humans which have been 'mislaid') and in order to ensure the long-term system stability it has to be reset now and then (Zion destroyed).

PS. Yeah I admit it, I was chuffed they used real unix commands in the film

[stkelly52]

Originally posted by Hell Atlantic
i didn't understand what the meaning of the Architect scene was when i saw it in the theatre, and now that i read the transcript here i still don't know what it's about. yes, i understand what's being said, but what is the storyteller trying to get at.

this brings me back to an earlier post about storytelling skills/responsibility. it is the storytellers responsibility to tell the story, make sure the audience understands what's going on so that while no spoonfeeding should be necessary - the audience can grasp what it is that the story teller is trying to say. i just want to say "in a nutshell - explain to me what it is you're trying to tell me when i see the architect scene." the only question the audience should have is what the moral of the story was, or what is the meaning to the movie. they shouldn't be asking "what's going on in this scene?".

I think that the major problem is that the story teller doesn't want you to know that the scene meant. This was made clear in the Archatect's first paragraph "some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not." Seris like this almost need to be looked at as one long movie. Would you be upset if 2/3 of the way through a typical movie you didn't fully understand everything that was going on? There are still many twists and turns to come. Have patience, I am sure that it will all be made clear in due time.

[Fritz]

am I the only one who hopes that they make a "Police Acadamy meets the Matrix?"

[mrsimperless]

FYI - there are some really good articles regarding Matrix philosophies by some independent people on the Matrix web site. Good reading.

[Easy Mac]

Here is something someone posted on that CHUD messageboard that was very intersting.

-Here's what I'm really stumped with, what's the significance of the pipe cracking on the other ship (forgot the name of it), causing the whole crew to die? As this scene cuts back and forth between Morpheus and those attacking the power grid, just when Morpheus says something about not believing in chance the camera cuts back to the other ship and closes in on a pipe cracking which causes the whole catwalk to collapse a few moments later... sending one man falling to his death, another impailed and the rest to die in an explosion. The death of this crew is what causes Trinity to re-enter the Matrix. If everything has been set up by the Architect to lead Neo to make a choice between saving Trinity and saving humanity then how did the machines account for such a random occurance as the pipe cracking? Obviously, however, the pipe was shown for a reason, it was deliberately keyed in on. I'm actually surprised no one has mentioned this before (forgive me if someone has).

This is a huge point about the movie, and one that can lead to the answer of whether this really is a "matrix in a matrix" (which I would absolutely hate, I've seen the 13th Floor already). Having actually thought about this, it really makes me think this is the direction the next one is taking

Preferably, my idea on the scene is that they were going to get hit by the squiddie bomb anyway, so it didn't particularly matter, and Trinity would have to go back in regardless. Since people were jacked in, its not like they could have EMP'd the sentinel.

But it really makes you think that it had to have been set up, just like everything in the Matrix.

[tucker342]

They did a great job of keeping people hanging, so that now people are really going to want to see the last movie just to figure out what it's all about...

[Happy29]

I saw it a week ago, and I understood it, except for that scene with the Matrix Architect. What the hell was wrong with his previous versions of the Matrix ? Did he forget to backup his files after reformatting his hard drive ?

[Easy Mac]

basically, the first one was too perfect, and too many people rejected that the matrix wasn't real. So he started over, including things that let us see how bad the "world" was/is. Some still wanted to reject it, so he allowed them to be unplugged, eventually one came around who realized he could transform the matrix, so in an attempt to reign in the anomoly, they created a prophecy and manipulated those who they let out. That way the one would always be pointed towards the architect, with the choice to let humanity die or restart the Matrix, essentially reformatting (kind of like havin Windows crash all the time.