NCAA Investigation: Miami is now on the clock

[bhlloy]

With the way the NCAA handles these things and Paul Dee in the position he is, I'll settle for comparable.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Comparable? If they have reasonably solid evidence on even a quarter of this, they are going to have to come up with a new level of punishment short of the death penalty - assuming they don't have the nads to levy the DP.

This. This makes USC stuff look like small potatoes. I think the death penalty is indeed possible if they are serious about strengthening penalties. If this isn't a dp case, there is no such thing.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

With the way the NCAA handles these things and Paul Dee in the position he is, I'll settle for comparable.

If it is "comparable" then USC should sue. And they will win, big time.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

With the way the NCAA handles these things and Paul Dee in the position he is, I'll settle for comparable.

I'm hoping the national media keeps the heat on Paul Dee, enough so that the NCAA has to address the issue. If I'm Mark Emmert and I want to display some semblance of accountability and integrity, I remove Paul Dee from his role because he's been exposed as a tremendous hypocrite.

[lcjjdnh]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Meh - Its hard to be outraged. the NCAA is a protection racket that gets pissed of when the people generating its revenue *gasp* benefit from it.

Exactly. God forbid someone other than the coaches, athletic directors, and media members exploiting teenagers through a labor cartel actually try to profit.

[Ksyrup]

While we're on the subject...

The University of Central Florida is expected to receive an official notice of inquiry from the NCAA regarding potential recruiting violations in the school's football and men's basketball program, sources have told ESPN.com.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

While we're on the subject...

The University of Central Florida is expected to receive an official notice of inquiry from the NCAA regarding potential recruiting violations in the school's football and men's basketball program, sources have told ESPN.com.

At what point do you have so many programs under investigation or admitting to violations that you realize the current system just isn't sustainable I wonder (at the risk of taking this off topic and back to the same discussion we've had a million times over the last couple of years)

[molson]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

If it is "comparable" then USC should sue. And they will win, big time.

I wonder if there's a basis to sue in that kind of circumstance, especially when its a voluntary and private organization. I'm not sure if there is or not, but it's generally tough to sue someone on the basis of something being unfair, unless there's some kind of binding contractual language. But if USC's punishment is legal when they got it I don't see how it becomes illegal if some other school gets less later on.

Edit: I mean, even if it's the government, if you get a harsh but legal criminal penalty, you don't get to sue if someone else later guys a lighter penalty for something you think it worse.

[Philliesfan980]

Division I athletics are really becoming disgusting for me. I'm half tempted to just start following FCS and D2 programs.

I guess the question is, when is the NCAA really going to get TOUGH (and don't give me this we're taking away 15 scholarships stuff) on this crap. 10 years, no national TV, no bowl games, no nothing. Until we start seeing that, the risk/reward just isn't there for these programs.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Comparable? If they have reasonably solid evidence on even a quarter of this, they are going to have to come up with a new level of punishment short of the death penalty - assuming they don't have the nads to levy the DP.

This.

[Ksyrup]

Ha! Just pulled up an article that popped up on Pulse on my iPod, with the headline "No suspensions at Miami yet" - and a picture of Urban Meyer on the sideline with his arms crossed looking pissed. Awesome.

[larrymcg421]

If Miami gets a serious punishment but Dee keeps his job, then the NCAA is more corrupt than any football program.

[lcjjdnh]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Division I athletics are really becoming disgusting for me. I'm half tempted to just start following FCS and D2 programs.

I guess the question is, when is the NCAA really going to get TOUGH (and don't give me this we're taking away 15 scholarships stuff) on this crap. 10 years, no national TV, no bowl games, no nothing. Until we start seeing that, the risk/reward just isn't there for these programs.

The NCAA must reform the entire system. Players must get paid more than the currently artificial cap of tuition/room+board. It's unreasonable to think that a black market won't emerge if the NCAA and its member institutions continue to try tokeep labor costs down by enforcing a cartel.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Division I athletics are really becoming disgusting for me. I'm half tempted to just start following FCS and D2 programs.

I guess the question is, when is the NCAA really going to get TOUGH (and don't give me this we're taking away 15 scholarships stuff) on this crap. 10 years, no national TV, no bowl games, no nothing. Until we start seeing that, the risk/reward just isn't there for these programs.

Edit: as Logan pointed out, I can't read.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

If Miami gets a serious punishment but Dee keeps his job, then the NCAA is more corrupt than any football program.

Paul Dee doesn't work for the NCAA (although I agree with your general point that there is no way he should keep his job).

[Ksyrup]

NEVIN SHAPIRO: CONFESSIONS

- "Marve was really jealous of all the attention Tebow got for performing that circumcision, so I took him down to the Seaquarium and let him graft a bundle of Christmas lights and a car battery onto a sailfish."

- "One Easter I paid the Bishop of Miami $150k to let Vilma run through every church holding a pig heart, screaming 'KALI MA!'"

- "I had nothing to do with Andre Johnson's 3 week reign as Shogun of Hialeah."

- "Shockey was pretty tame, actually. I think I bought him a watch and a nice pair of jeans. Oh, and like 78 abortions."

- "The things I saw Lance Leggett do to Sebastian with the business end of a flare gun would make DMX blush."

- "All Beason wanted was grout, expired cough drops, and sand dollars. I didn't ask questions. Didn't eat with him, either."

- "Frank Gore took $40k from me and had all the liner notes from Cooleyhighharmony tattooed on his soft palate."

- "To be fair, I thought Brock had a medical need for a new liver. I didn't know he just thought his old one was 'super gay.'"



- "In retrospect, I shouldn't have let Kellen Winslow fill a t-shirt cannon with bocce balls and left him alone in Lowe's."

- "As a gag on Donna Shalala, we implanted one of her ovum in Bubba Sparxxx. And that's how Ke$ha was born."

- "I had an alternate version of Myst made for D.J. Williams. All the puzzles were solved by throwing a cop into a bar mirror."

- "The 2003 jerseys had two strands of human hair woven in - one from Sophia Loren, one from Francis Crick."

- "Have you ever seen a baby deer released from a lunar landing module into the cold vacuum of space? Jon Peattie has."

- "Funny story - at the '04 Peach Bowl I sent Charlie Strong a sculpture of Sade made of coke. Thought he was a recruit."

- "I paid for Greg Olsen to be at Ossie Davis's bedside when he passed. Greg kept laughing and saying 'Evening Shade sucks.'"

- "Sinorice Moss lived in William Joseph's duodenum one summer. I know because I paid his electric and cable bills."

- "For Brandon Meriweather's birthday, we hung a helicopter from a crane and filled it with orphans. Best pinata ever."

- "At one point, Vernon Carey had me smuggling in 50 gallons of leaded gasoline to him a week. Goddamn that guy could drink."

- "We had a standing $40 bounty for making Brian St. Pierre wonder if he was adopted. Had to lower it from $400."

- "Yeah, I paid the curator of the British Museum $15k to let Ken Dorsey shit on a mummy. Didn't think much of it at the time."

[Ksyrup]

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel
After talking to NCAA officials today and some compliance folks, there seems to be little talk of bringing back death penalties or TV bans.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Seriously? you're disgusted by the athletes? Not the schools making the big bucks, not the coaches earning $6M per year?

Read closer.

[Logan]

I like how Golden claims he hasn't read the Yahoo article yet.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Logan

Read closer.

Mea culpa. I completely mis-read that.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Logan

I like how Golden claims he hasn't read the Yahoo article yet.

I'm sure he has been busy reading the want ads.

[MrBug708]

Any word on if the NCAA is just jealous of Miami?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think the death penalty is indeed possible if they are serious about strengthening penalties. If this isn't a dp case, there is no such thing.

Meh...as BAD as this is, and I think it is bad, there is a pretty easy defense. While granted a bunch of stuf happened it all happened from one individual. A con man so cunning and stealth he defrauded a Billion dollars from millionaires. Its not like we had car dealerships competing to see who could give what car away here.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Meh...as BAD as this is, and I think it is bad, there is a pretty easy defense. While granted a bunch of stuf happened it all happened from one individual. A con man so cunning and stealth he defrauded a Billion dollars from millionaires. Its not like we had car dealerships competing to see who could give what car away here.

The other issue in proving the case against coaches/admins regarding their knowledge of the payments is how to provide evidence they had knowledge. The Tim Floyd situation involved an accusation that he knew there was a cash payment to one of his players. But the payment was done in cash, so there was no evidence to tie the coach to the payment. Unless one of the coaches at Miami kept some sort of log of the payments, it's going to prove very difficult to prove those accusations, especially when it then comes down to the word of a NCAA coach vs. the word of a convicted felon.

Do I think the coaches knew? Hell yes they did. Will the NCAA be able to prove that? Barring a coach's log, e-mail, or phone recording we don't know about yet, there's no way they'll be able to prove knowledge.

[sterlingice]

How much does it burn ESPN that they had to reference Yahoo at least 5 times in their Miami story since they won't actually do the journalism:

NCAA investigating Miami Hurricanes - ESPN

SI

[RomaGoth]

Meh, everything will be business as usual after the U imposes sanctions on itself by cutting 3-4 scholarships and missing a bowl game for 2 years.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Meh, everything will be business as usual after the U imposes sanctions on itself by cutting 3-4 scholarships and missing a bowl game for 2 years.

You know what? If they do end up with some really weak slap on the wrists I think that the NCAA is really going to have to reevaluate the way that things are done.

If all that money and fame can be had for cheap there is no deterrent whatsoever. Teams are going to break the rules harder, faster and in even more creative ways.

In fact, I would say that the whole idea of unpaid athletes and college might go out the window altogether. We might simply need a lower level of pro player that can get paid and play and do what they do without worrying about school.

The NCAA either has to protect what the have in it's current state, or admit that they have no control and change the entire landscape of college football.

[bronconick]

What's almost as funny is I read one of the articles that suggested that Shapiro offered to start "buying" players, but the coaches told him not to bother because Miami couldn't compete with SEC boosters in that regard.

[Ksyrup]

It appears several of the players who are named but no longer at Miami (like that Marve kid) have already been cleared. WTF? If that's any indication of how this is going to be handled, I think Miami is going to come out of this in pretty good shape. The kids don't bear any responsibility for taking this stuff? Or they only want to punish the school and the players still at the school? I don't get that. Anyone know how they are being cleared so quickly?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It appears several of the players who are named but no longer at Miami (like that Marve kid) have already been cleared. WTF? If that's any indication of how this is going to be handled, I think Miami is going to come out of this in pretty good shape. The kids don't bear any responsibility for taking this stuff? Or they only want to punish the school and the players still at the school? I don't get that. Anyone know how they are being cleared so quickly?

What I heard in dealing with Orson Charles is that the NCAA had already been on the investigation for a while, and so they were ready to clear those players as soon as the current universities filed. Not knowing exactly what was involved with the players, they might have already dealt with issues with them (paid back what was given, or came clean to the investigators with no further issues, etc.).

[bronconick]

Supposedly the NCAA has been in on this for about 5 months, making them 6 months late to the Yahoo party, or about par for the course.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

What I heard in dealing with Orson Charles is that the NCAA had already been on the investigation for a while, and so they were ready to clear those players as soon as the current universities filed. Not knowing exactly what was involved with the players, they might have already dealt with issues with them (paid back what was given, or came clean to the investigators with no further issues, etc.).

This. I heard that Kansas State has already required that the Brown brothers pay back the amount received. They've privately admitted to Coach Snyder that they received the money. Most of it will be handled in this manner.

[Ksyrup]

Is that normal, to allow them to pay it back without any kind of additional penalty? When do the suspensions come in, like what Green got for UGA? Or did he lie about it and that's what the suspension was for?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is that normal, to allow them to pay it back without any kind of additional penalty?

I believe the Brown brothers will also be facing a suspension. KSU has given a suggested length of suspension. We'll know the official length when the NCAA hands it down.

[Logan]

Doesn't it seem very similar (or even worse) to what happened with the UNC kids? Showered with gifts, taken on vacations/clubs. Those guys weren't allowed to repay anything.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I believe the Brown brothers will also be facing a suspension. KSU has given a suggested length of suspension. We'll know the official length when the NCAA hands it down.

Oh. So what does "cleared" mean? I was under the impression that if they're cleared they can continue playing without further restrictions.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Oh. So what does "cleared" mean? I was under the impression that if they're cleared they can continue playing without further restrictions.

I'm only talking about the Brown situation. There may be other situations where they were cleared and face no penalty. I'd also assumed that 'cleared' means no payback or suspension.

[larrymcg421]

What I heard was that violations generally don't follow you from school to school, so that's why the Browns and Marve have been cleared. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but if so it makes zero sense and is really fucked up.

[Ksyrup]

If they determined Marve didn't do what the Yahoo investigation says he did, then that may say something about the investigation as a whole. If he admitted it and is cleared to play with no restrictions, I don't understand that.

Actually, it appears all of the guys mentioned in the Yahhoo report have been cleared. The players, anyway. I must not understand the process (*gets in line*).

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What I heard was that violations generally don't follow you from school to school, so that's why the Browns and Marve have been cleared. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but if so it makes zero sense and is really fucked up.

Yeah, that's ridiculous. Take as many illegal benefits as you want, as long as you wind up picking another school or transferring before they catch you. Then you're golden!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What I heard was that violations generally don't follow you from school to school, so that's why the Browns and Marve have been cleared. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but if so it makes zero sense and is really fucked up.

That's the case with coaches, but the kids definitely are still responsible in one form or another. Otherwise, they lose their amateur status.

[bhlloy]

Somebody 5 years ago on your team that you never met took illegal benefits - we ruin your college career

You personally took illegal benefits - pay it back and you are good!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Somebody 5 years ago on your team that you never met took illegal benefits - we ruin your college career

You personally took illegal benefits - pay it back and you are good!

Yep, sad but true.

Not mentioned as of yet in this thread is the fact that the Miami AD also left the school this summer to run Texas Tech's athletic program.

Former Miami AD Hocutt says he didn't know what Shapiro was doing - NCAA Football - Sporting News

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is that normal, to allow them to pay it back without any kind of additional penalty? When do the suspensions come in, like what Green got for UGA? Or did he lie about it and that's what the suspension was for?

When Jarrett was living with...Leinart?...in an apartment where he was paying about an 1/8 of the rent, the NCAA ruled that he had to pay back a fair amount of money for that apartment.

Leinart and Jarrett each paid $650 a month, with Leinart's father paying $2,566 -- the difference of the monthly payment.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yep, sad but true.

Not mentioned as of yet in this thread is the fact that the Miami AD also left the school this summer to run Texas Tech's athletic program.

Former Miami AD Hocutt says he didn't know what Shapiro was doing - NCAA Football - Sporting News

Hah. I love the "I didn't know what they were doing" angle these guys try to sell. You are the fucking AD of a big-time Division I football program. If you honestly didn't know what a booster was doing with your players, you had no business being an AD.

[Ksyrup]

He may not have known what was going on, but if you're going to give someone that kind of access to the program - including naming a lounge after him and letting him lead the team onto the field a couple of times, not to mention the practice field visits, etc. - you should have someone digging for dirt on the guy. And certainly you'd think he would have found out about the sports agency the guy co-owned that signed 2 of the U's 1st round picks. I mean,,, c'mon!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If they determined Marve didn't do what the Yahoo investigation says he did, then that may say something about the investigation as a whole. If he admitted it and is cleared to play with no restrictions, I don't understand that.

Actually, it appears all of the guys mentioned in the Yahhoo report have been cleared. The players, anyway. I must not understand the process (*gets in line*).

I don't think it is as simple as we would make it. I do think some players dodge penalties if they didn't know the rule and are willing to pay back benefits, while others that should have known better will still face additional penalties. It really comes down to what exactly are the allegations facing these players (the players that aren't in Miami).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Hah. I love the "I didn't know what they were doing" angle these guys try to sell. You are the fucking AD of a big-time Division I football program. If you honestly didn't know what a booster was doing with your players, you had no business being an AD.

That's par for the course in all these investigations in all schools. Plead ignorance of the situation until someone comes forward with concrete proof that you knew about it.

[molson]

I really question what incentive the NCAA or the schools have to be tougher on penalties or clean anything up....Has there been any hint that any of these incidents have impacted interest or the bottom line?

[GrantDawg]

Tweet:

RT @McMurphyCBS: Hurricane Warning: Mark Emmert tells USA Today: "I'm not opposed to [NCAA's COI] using [the Death Penalty]."