The FOFC Keeper League 2011

[JAG]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

I'm suggesting our fantasy teams, past the deadline, are essentially FAs at the end of the season except that we get to "tag" or "re-sign" three (plus a rookie) players prior to the season.

What's wrong with having to make a tough decision or two regarding who to keep and then making the draft more meaningful?

We voted on this proposal last year and it passed 9-3.

3. Allow off-season trades from after the championship game until before keepers are announced.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by JAG

We voted on this proposal last year and it passed 9-3.

3. Allow off-season trades from after the championship game until before keepers are announced.

That's fine...just stating my opinion on the subject.

[sterlingice]

Ok, I need to go back and look at my team

SI

[samifan24]

The FOFC All-Stars Keepers

QB: Philip Rivers, SD
RB: Darren McFadden, OAK
WR/TE: Roddy White, ATL
Rookie: Mike Williams, WR, TB

[TLK]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I agree with Lathum on the trading issue.

I also think that if you get a guy in a trad and you decide to keep him, he has 1 year against him since he won't be in the draft this year.

I think this is the way to go.

[PackerFanatic]

So what about the trading deadline? Does that just end when the season does? If that is the case, I would expect our teams to end too (except for those we keep).

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I also think that if you get a guy in a trad and you decide to keep him, he has 1 year against him since he won't be in the draft this year.

Well if you are trading at this point (between the end of last season and before keepers are announced), you are obviously going to keep the guy - would be no point in doing the trade otherwise. I just feel it's unfair to the team getting him to already have 1 year against him...my understanding of the 3-year rule is that its 3 years on the same team, not 3 years in general. So you should be able to actually USE him for 3 years (instead of just 2 if you trade for him)

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Well if you are trading at this point (between the end of last season and before keepers are announced), you are obviously going to keep the guy - would be no point in doing the trade otherwise. I just feel it's unfair to the team getting him to already have 1 year against him...my understanding of the 3-year rule is that its 3 years on the same team, not 3 years in general. So you should be able to actually USE him for 3 years (instead of just 2 if you trade for him)

So what happens if a player is kept for 3 years and in the middle of the 3rd year he is traded? Does his 3 years start over since he is on a new team?

What is the purpose of the rule? Is the purpose of the rule to keep Peyton Manning from being on the same team for 18 years, helping this team dominate for those years or is the purpose of the rule to have studs like Manning in the draft every so often so that the draft isn't stale? Both?

I've been playing fantasy football since 1999 and last year was the first year I was in a league that played with keepers. One of the 2 leagues I commish made the switch last year. So, my experience with fantasy football keepers is limited, so I may not look at it like others.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Well if you are trading at this point (between the end of last season and before keepers are announced), you are obviously going to keep the guy - would be no point in doing the trade otherwise. I just feel it's unfair to the team getting him to already have 1 year against him...my understanding of the 3-year rule is that its 3 years on the same team, not 3 years in general. So you should be able to actually USE him for 3 years (instead of just 2 if you trade for him)

Oh, maybe I misunderstood what spleen meant. I agree, keepers you trade for you should be able to use for three years. That doesn't seem unfair to me, when you draft a non-rookie, you can potentially have them four years (the first year you use them and the three times you keep them afterwards).

I suggest we start voting on the proposals for the upcoming season now so we have the most time possible to work out trades prior to declaring keepers and prepping for the draft.

[cubboyroy1826]

Okay dumb question is there a way to tell if a player on our roster was a rookie last year? I can go check on my own of course but wasn't sure if there was some way to tell from the site.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

So what happens if a player is kept for 3 years and in the middle of the 3rd year he is traded? Does his 3 years start over since he is on a new team?

What is the purpose of the rule? Is the purpose of the rule to keep Peyton Manning from being on the same team for 18 years, helping this team dominate for those years or is the purpose of the rule to have studs like Manning in the draft every so often so that the draft isn't stale? Both?

I've been playing fantasy football since 1999 and last year was the first year I was in a league that played with keepers. One of the 2 leagues I commish made the switch last year. So, my experience with fantasy football keepers is limited, so I may not look at it like others.

I think it's a little bit of both, but more so the first. If you trade someone in the middle of the year, you would actually get to him, so that should count as one year (since he was on your team prior to the end of the year and you used him). My thinking is that once the season is over, you don't get to use your players anymore, so there is no reason that anyone you get between then and the start of the next season should count against you.

I do like the idea of trading players after the season ends, and I am even okay with your entire roster being up for grabs prior to the draft, but they should be treated like anyone else you would draft that season (in terms of tenure length on your team starting at 0)

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by cubboyroy1826

Okay dumb question is there a way to tell if a player on our roster was a rookie last year? I can go check on my own of course but wasn't sure if there was some way to tell from the site.

I don't see anything on there that shows that, so you'd have to go through each - as a note, you have no rookies from last year

[johnnyshaka]

What's the point of having a rule to only be able to keep keepers for 3 years if you can just continue to trade the best players for the best players every year or two?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

What's the point of having a rule to only be able to keep keepers for 3 years if you can just continue to trade the best players for the best players every year or two?

Before the three year rule, there was nothing in place to stop this from happening either. This way at least encourages more transactions, more decisions to make = more interesting to me. And people will make mistakes, they'll screw up in their evaluations or someone will get hurt or a team will lose their best WRs in free agency and leave the QB with no one to throw to...any number of things can happen. And it'll be fun to look back on those transactions in my opinion (or smack yourself for doing something stupid, like I did keeping Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson).

[cubboyroy1826]

Thanks Packer. I didn't think so but that Steve Johnson was a bit of a puzzler and I had not gone any further than the site.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JAG

Before the three year rule, there was nothing in place to stop this from happening either. This way at least encourages more transactions, more decisions to make = more interesting to me. And people will make mistakes, they'll screw up in their evaluations or someone will get hurt or a team will lose their best WRs in free agency and leave the QB with no one to throw to...any number of things can happen. And it'll be fun to look back on those transactions in my opinion (or smack yourself for doing something stupid, like I did keeping Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson).

I agree with this.

[Lathum]

My vision for the 3 year keeper rule with regards to trades would be something like this.

Lets say I trade Jamaal Charles to Saldada today. Sal gets Charles for the 2011, 2012, and 2013 season then has to deal him or he goes into the draft pool. If I trade him during the season, lets say week 6 of last year, he would count for the 2010, 2011, and 2012 season.

[sterlingice]

That sounds legit to me. Makes for a lot of wheeling and dealing every 3rd year, I suppose

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That sounds legit to me. Makes for a lot of wheeling and dealing every 3rd year, I suppose

SI

Actually when we get into a rhythm it will be every year. This season and next off season will be very active because it is the first year the rule kicks in, but every year there will be guys who cant be kept.

[TLK]

We seem to have some sort of agreement of the trade rules. I'm on the way out, but if anyone wants to write up the proposals for the trade rule and the IR rule... feel free and everyone can start voting on it. If not, I'll get to it tomorrow as planned.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by JAG

Before the three year rule, there was nothing in place to stop this from happening either. This way at least encourages more transactions, more decisions to make = more interesting to me. And people will make mistakes, they'll screw up in their evaluations or someone will get hurt or a team will lose their best WRs in free agency and leave the QB with no one to throw to...any number of things can happen. And it'll be fun to look back on those transactions in my opinion (or smack yourself for doing something stupid, like I did keeping Steve Slaton over Chris Johnson).

Agreed with this as well.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Lathum

My vision for the 3 year keeper rule with regards to trades would be something like this.

Lets say I trade Jamaal Charles to Saldada today. Sal gets Charles for the 2011, 2012, and 2013 season then has to deal him or he goes into the draft pool. If I trade him during the season, lets say week 6 of last year, he would count for the 2010, 2011, and 2012 season.

I suppose I can get on board with this...the only sticking point I really have is if Sal were to get Charles now, he should be allow to keep him through 2014 (since keeping him after 2013 would technically be his third year) - so he'd keep him after 2011 (for 2012 season), after 2012 (for 2013 season), and after 2013 (for 2014 season). To me, having this season count as a keeper year is somewhat discouraging people from doing a deal in the offseason.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I suppose I can get on board with this...the only sticking point I really have is if Sal were to get Charles now, he should be allow to keep him through 2014 (since keeping him after 2013 would technically be his third year) - so he'd keep him after 2011 (for 2012 season), after 2012 (for 2013 season), and after 2013 (for 2014 season). To me, having this season count as a keeper year is somewhat discouraging people from doing a deal in the offseason.

I disagree. He would be keeping him this year since keepers haven't been announced yet.

The whole point is to not have a guy on your roster more than 3 years.

[PackerFanatic]

Then we shouldn't be allowed to trade before keepers are announced...he still technically wouldn't be on the roster more than 3 years, since he wouldn't be used that first "year" (would you really count that a year?)

[spleen1015]

This feels like it is getting too complicated. I think it is going to end up being a headache for whomever has to keep track of it.

I think a guy should be allowed to be a keeper for 3 years, period. The number of keeper years he has left should be something to consider when you make a trade.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Then we shouldn't be allowed to trade before keepers are announced...he still technically wouldn't be on the roster more than 3 years, since he wouldn't be used that first "year" (would you really count that a year?)

Either I'm not explaining myself well or you are missing something, either way this shouldn't be this hard.

If you keep a guy 3 times, after the third time he goes back into the draft.

[PackerFanatic]

That makes sense to me and I agree with all that. The question that I am bringing up is this: when does the season official end - at the end of the NFL season or when we announce our keepers? It sounds to me like we probably answered that already with our vote last year, so maybe I am arguing for no reason. It just doesn't make sense to me to trade for someone, and then be forced to "keep" him, when you didn't get to use him the previous year (which is why I think trading shouldn't be allowed until keepers are announced)

[PackerFanatic]

Gridiron Warriors Keepers
QB: Aaron Rodgers
RB: Frank Gore
WR: Sidney Rice
Rookie: Haven't keep one yet, why start now?

[spleen1015]

I am finding it hard to come with a good trade with all of this keeper business.

I am looking to upgrade my options at WR. Feel free to throw me some offers.

[TLK]

-Off-season trade Rules
-Trades will be allowed for two weeks after the championship game and then one month before keepers are announced.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks or players and picks
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.

Thoughts?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

It just doesn't make sense to me to trade for someone, and then be forced to "keep" him, when you didn't get to use him the previous year (which is why I think trading shouldn't be allowed until keepers are announced)

Why would you trade for a player in the offseason and not keep him?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TLK

Thoughts?

Works for me, though I wouldn't think anyone would make a trade in the two week post Championship window.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why would you trade for a player in the offseason and not keep him?

Injuries and trade implications come to mind.

[sterlingice]

I have an interesting WR decision to make now...

SI

[JAG]

Callous Dowboys Trading Block

RB Adrian Peterson
WR Vincent Jackson
QB Josh Freeman (also willing to trade Romo if anyone's trading a better QB as part of a deal)

In Exchange For

Draft Picks
Maybe a really elite QB / RB (yeah right...)
Not a WR or rookie

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why would you trade for a player in the offseason and not keep him?

Obviously you wouldn't, hence the quotes around keep -

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by JAG

Works for me, though I wouldn't think anyone would make a trade in the two week post Championship window.

Agreed with this, not sure this piece is even needed.

I can get on board with the rest. Probably the cleanest way to handle it all.

[TLK]

All owners will need to vote on these proposals. Majority rules. Post your votes in this thread.

1. Do you agree to these off-season trade rules? Yay or Nay?

-Off-season trade Rules
-Trades will be allowed one month before keepers are announced.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks or players and picks
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.

2. Add an IR position to our rosters. To qualify a player must be on the NFL IR. A team will only get one IR spot per year. Yay or Nay?

[TLK]

1. Yay
2. Yay

[johnnyshaka]

1. Nay
2. Yay

[cubboyroy1826]

1. Yay
2. Yay

[Eaglesfan27]

1. Yay
2. Yay

[Lathum]

yay
yay

[PackerFanatic]

Are we allowed to re-use the IR spot (ie, if we have someone there, then want to "save" someone else instead, can we drop the person on IR and move the new person in there?)

[JAG]

1. Yay
2. Yay

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

Are we allowed to re-use the IR spot (ie, if we have someone there, then want to "save" someone else instead, can we drop the person on IR and move the new person in there?)

For simplicity's sake, I would say no. I guess it would depend on how Fleaflicker's software does it also.

[spleen1015]

1. Yay
2. Nay

[sterlingice]

Quick dumb clarification about the new keeper rules since I'm not quite sure I'm getting it. So, I've got Tom Brady and Vic's Heroes has Drew Brees. We've both kept them 2 season and next season will be their third. At the end of next season, if we don't trade them midseason, are they gone off of our team? Or next offseason, do he and I just find each other since and go "Hey, you have Brees and I have Brady and they're both top 5 QBs. We're both going to lose them if we don't do something so let's swap." It seems to me like keepers who hit 3 years should be released at the end of the season and before the trading window, otherwise you'll just have this silly recycling every 3 years. If you wanted to trade them you need to do it this offseason, and lose a season of eligibility or midseason and risk disrupting your team.

SI

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Quick dumb clarification about the new keeper rules since I'm not quite sure I'm getting it. So, I've got Tom Brady and Vic's Heroes has Drew Brees. We've both kept them 2 season and next season will be their third. At the end of next season, if we don't trade them midseason, are they gone off of our team? Or next offseason, do he and I just find each other since and go "Hey, you have Brees and I have Brady and they're both top 5 QBs. We're both going to lose them if we don't do something so let's swap." It seems to me like keepers who hit 3 years should be released at the end of the season and before the trading window, otherwise you'll just have this silly recycling every 3 years. If you wanted to trade them you need to do it this offseason, and lose a season of eligibility or midseason and risk disrupting your team.

SI

I see your point but it may not always be the case. People may rather get draft picks or may have a backup almost as good. I think worse case scenerio is it becomes a swap for top 5 guys and we rethink the rule.

[saldana]

1. no
2. yes

[Lathum]

for the couple of people who have voted no for the trade rules just curios why