Rock Band 3

[Greyroofoo]

I love Pro Drums, especially since in reinvigorates old tracks.

The thing I hate most about this game is that whenever I play "Power of Love" I get a strong urging to watch "Back to the Future"

[dawgfan]

My copy arrived yesterday. Since it's my Xmas present, I'm trying to avoid the temptation to play it early, but I did want to get it installed and download the 3 free Doors tracks before the offer ended today. I also took the time to transfer over my previously downloaded songs and RB2 and RB libraries.

I haven't played it yet, but I did create my first avatar, band name and set my backup band members.

First impressions (just from navigating the UI) - I'm disappointed in the "look" of the game so far. I thought RB2 had an outstanding overarching look to the UI, and I liked the look of the avatars. My impression of the avatars in RB3 is that they tried to go a little more realistic looking, but they ended up in a bad limbo between realistic and stylized that doesn't work as well as what they did in RB2. Plus, there's some odd weighting in the characters that leads to some poor deformation around shoulders and knees.

One of the things that I've really liked about the RB games is they just look better, more cohesive and a little more serious than the Guitar Hero series. To me, RB3 seems like a bit of a step-back in that regard.

I'm sure once I'm actually playing the songs I'm not going to mind so much the UI and the look of everything, but I'm a little disappointed based on my first exposure to it.

[Ajaxab]

Looks like dates and a price are set on the Stratocaster guitar.

hxxp://www.fender.com/rockband3/exclusive/?EDID=EWBNH72-EWZM-A7RJV8-D4OR0-A437-v1

I don't know how much a real electric guitar goes for, but I think that price point is going to separate the serious from the casual pretty quickly.

[SnowMan]

Holy crap, I was expecting $150. Nevermind that, then!

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Amen. Not being able to do this was a mistake that cost them sales. I know I would have picked up the add-on stuff for Beatles if I could import. I really like playing The Beatles but I hate being confined to just them so I ended up not getting any of the other albums.

I thought my son said the Green Day version songs could be imported and played with Rock Band2 so, maybe importing The Beatles was prohibited in the contract?

The game likely would have never been made if that was a dealbreaker for Harmonix/Rock Band/whoever.

The Beatles are beyond controlling over their stuff.

Green Day is exportable. The Beatles are the only game in the entire series that is completely standalone.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by SnowMan

Holy crap, I was expecting $150. Nevermind that, then!

$279 MSRP so hopefully it will be available less than $250. Wait a while and I'm sure the price will come down. Given that it's a 'real' guitar though, I'm not sure how far it will come down.

Edit - March 1st. Geez, I hope I'm not burned out on RB by then.

[sterlingice]

I was balking at $150. $280... no way.

SI

[Groundhog]

Like I said earlier, I'll be getting one. That's about what I expected it to be, and hell, it's a real guitar.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Like I said earlier, I'll be getting one. That's about what I expected it to be, and hell, it's a real guitar.

Exactly. A true Strat goes for, what, several hundred dollars new (at least $500 for the base-level ones)?

[Greyroofoo]

It's always a good day when a Rush song (Subdivisions) gets released on the Rock Band music store.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

It's always a good day when a Rush song (Subdivisions) gets released on the Rock Band music store.

Yeah, I'm excited for that one. Loved the "Moving Pictures" DLC too - that record was a staple of my listening rotation growing up.

[Carman Bulldog]

I assume Subdivisions takes full advantage of the new keyboard. It would be great if they at least went back through some of the old songs (ie. Rush, The Who, etc.) where keyboards are instrumental and update them for use.

[dawgfan]

So about retrofitting old content for keyboards - apparently it's going to cost $2 for that upgrade, and another $1 if you want the pro guitar/bass tracks for those songs.

No idea yet which songs they intend to go back and retrofit, and when. I'd also be curious to see what the difference would be for someone like me trying to get the keyboard tracks for DLC I've already purchased vs. somebody now buying one of those songs for the first time - does someone buying a retrofitted track for the first time only pay $2? Because if so, that's some serious bullshit. And if not, how many people are going to plunk down $4 per song for DLC?

I can understand charging additional money for the keyboard track update to old content, but $2? That's what the song cost me in the first place. Pretty weak if they keep that policy IMO, considering that the songs originally had 4 tracks (vocals, drums, guitar, bass) and the upgrade is only 2 additional tracks (keyboards, vocal harmonies).

At that price, I'm unlikely to upgrade many (if any) of my previous DLC - greedy bastards. I'm already a little hacked at the build quality of their instruments - I'm going to be buying my 3rd guitar controller tonight after the strummer failed in the first one and the green fret button failed in the second.

[SackAttack]

Couple of the older Bon Jovi tracks got an upgrade. "Livin' on a Prayer" and "You Give Love a Bad Name" come to mind.

The whole thing with the addition of the new tracks is, I'd bet it's probably a rebalancing thing as well - like the tracks for the guitars probably change to reflect the addition of the keyboards.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Couple of the older Bon Jovi tracks got an upgrade. "Livin' on a Prayer" and "You Give Love a Bad Name" come to mind.

The whole thing with the addition of the new tracks is, I'd bet it's probably a rebalancing thing as well - like the tracks for the guitars probably change to reflect the addition of the keyboards.

That's probably true, but it's still a weak precedent. I really doubt they're going to charge people $4 for those songs if they haven't bought them yet, but that's what those of us that have bought DLC already will be paying if they ask us to pay another $2 to upgrade those songs with new keyboard and vocal harmonies tracks.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That's probably true, but it's still a weak precedent. I really doubt they're going to charge people $4 for those songs if they haven't bought them yet, but that's what those of us that have bought DLC already will be paying if they ask us to pay another $2 to upgrade those songs with new keyboard and vocal harmonies tracks.

According to Wikipedia the following notation follows Livin on a Prayer, Dead or Alive and You Give Love a Bad Name...

Pro Guitar/Bass charts are only available to purchase after purchasing the "RB3 Edition" version of these songs.

I'm not sure how this relates to the keyboard though.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

According to Wikipedia the following notation follows Livin on a Prayer, Dead or Alive and You Give Love a Bad Name...

Pro Guitar/Bass charts are only available to purchase after purchasing the "RB3 Edition" version of these songs.

I'm not sure how this relates to the keyboard though.

The pro mode tracks will cost an additional $1 per song. According to Harmonix, you can upgrade your legacy DLC with pro mode Guitar/Bass tracks without upgrading to the "RB3 Version" (i.e. adding keyboard and vocal harmony tracks):

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showt...tones-singles!

So that would theoretically mean you could spend $2 to add the keyboard and vocal harmonies, then another $1 to upgrade the guitar and bass tracks to pro mode, or skip the "RB3 Version" upgrade and just do the pro mode upgrade.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That's probably true, but it's still a weak precedent. I really doubt they're going to charge people $4 for those songs if they haven't bought them yet, but that's what those of us that have bought DLC already will be paying if they ask us to pay another $2 to upgrade those songs with new keyboard and vocal harmonies tracks.

The way I see it, there are three reasonable options.

1) "It would be too much work to re-track those songs without charging for it, which means older customers would be at a disadvantage to newer customers in terms of cost. Therefore, we won't re-track those songs at all."

You don't get double-dipped, but nobody gets to play "Livin' on a Prayer" in RB3 mode, for example.

2) "We may not ever retrofit all of the older tracks, but we will retrofit some of them on a case-by-case basis. Unfortunately, there will be a charge involved if you wish to upgrade any of the eligible tracks in your legacy library."

Which is what we see now.

3) Subscription model. For some nominal fee each month, you're able to download the remastered tracks. Possibly two-tier; the lower tier would be less expensive but give you access only to remasters of tracks you already own. The more expensive tier would allow you to download any such tracks. You'd still be paying, but possibly less than if you upgraded everything individually, and the steady, recurring income might make it more financially feasible for them to do those upgrades in addition to new, forthcoming DLC as well.

I just don't see a reasonable solution that involves them re-working old songs and giving the upgrades to previous owners for free, though.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I just don't see a reasonable solution that involves them re-working old songs and giving the upgrades to previous owners for free, though.

Sure, I guess I'm just objecting to the pricing that they seem to be setting for the work. Charging the same amount ($2) to upgrade a song to the "RB3 Version" as what was paid for the song in the first place seems excessive to me. For my part, unless it's a song where the keyboard part is really critical or interesting, I'm unlikely to pay $2 to upgrade it. I'd be more willing at $1, but still grumbling a bit that people just now buying those songs for the first time are paying less than I did for the same, RB3 version.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Sure, I guess I'm just objecting to the pricing that they seem to be setting for the work. Charging the same amount ($2) to upgrade a song to the "RB3 Version" as what was paid for the song in the first place seems excessive to me. For my part, unless it's a song where the keyboard part is really critical or interesting, I'm unlikely to pay $2 to upgrade it. I'd be more willing at $1, but still grumbling a bit that people just now buying those songs for the first time are paying less than I did for the same, RB3 version.

And even if they reduced the price, that would still be the case.

You paid $2 for the song originally. Let's say they release a RB3 version for $1. You'll now have paid $3 to get keyboard support, while new customers are paying $1.

Or, alternatively, they'll have to ask the newer customers to pay more for Livin' on a Prayer on Rock Band 3 than they'd ask for virtually any other song in their catalog.

They simply cannot win. If they don't do the upgrades, people will grumble about no keyboard in Queen songs. If they do it for free, there's an opportunity cost involved. If they charge, older customers will bitch about having to pay again. If they charge less to accommodate those older customers, the older customers will bitch about the newer customers getting to pay less.

The subscription model I mentioned for older track conversions is about the only way they could handle this without turning parts of their customer base against one another. There'd still be bitching about having to pay, but it wouldn't be of the older-sibling-younger-sibling variety. "Mooooom, I had to go to bed at 7 when I was his age, why does he get to stay up 'til 8?"

[dawgfan]

I think that's what I said, that while I'd grumble about paying another $1 for the RB3 version (thus paying $3 total for the song), I'd be more inclined to do so than if the charge were $2 (thus paying $4 total). Doubling my cost for DLC to get only 2 additional tracks (keyboards and vocal harmonies) doesn't seem fair to me.

I agree that Harmonix is in a tough spot - I'm sure they want to avoid raising the price of DLC to $3 per song, but they also want to attempt to cover the cost of going back and retrofitting existing DLC content to account for the new instrument so they're not going to give away the upgrades for free. But they also need to worry about alienating existing users that have already spent a lot of money on DLC and are not going to be thrilled that we'll end up spending more to get the same content as someone buying that DLC for the first time now.

[Ironhead]

So what is the general consensus with the new game and the mini keyboard? Did they change the tour mode to make it a little more interesting?

[moriarty]

Bee Gees!

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

So what is the general consensus with the new game and the mini keyboard? Did they change the tour mode to make it a little more interesting?

I like the new game. Tour mode is more of a polishing than a major change/improvement. The keyboard is surprisingly fun, pro mode is cool but very hard. The keyboard will only work w/ RB3 songs though... They have plans to update older content, but they'll charge you $2 for it.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Bee Gees!

How long before Harmonix starts selling Rock Band branded disco balls and lights?

[moriarty]

Didn't they sell a fog machine at one point (or was that a 3rd party 'add on')? Can't imagine that sold too well.

I'm holding out for the RockBand light up dancefloor myself.

[Greyroofoo]

Here ya go

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Rock-...0287835&sr=8-1

[Greyroofoo]

Rock Band music store has the rest of John Lennon's "Imagine" available.

[Mota]

Played Imagine with the wife last night, she sang and I played Pro Keys on Easy. Apparently I must've been one of the first, I was ranked #16 worldwide on some of the songs and trust me, I'm not that great.

[Greyroofoo]

Yeah, I was #1 one of the songs for pro drums yesterday.

[Ksyrup]

Not that these are necessaily related, but I just finished reading an article about the fall of the Wii and then saw this:

Rock Band: It's Someone Else's Problem Now, Baby!
alexandra
Thursday, December 23, 2010

All of that plastic, faux-fretboarding, and virtual stage-play was supposed to transform the music industry forever. But music gaming crashed somewhere between the Beatles flop and the banking crisis, and Viacom has been looking to dump Rock Band ever since.

And, that's what they just did. According to details confirmed Thursday, Viacom has shuttled Rock Band creator Harmonix Music Systems to investment firm Columbus Nova. Never heard of Columbus? Whatever, they're the company that now owns Rock Band, okay?

Viacom didn't disclose the terms of the deal, though this was becoming a boondoggle. Analysts polled late Thursday by the Los Angeles Times estimated a sale price of lower than $100 million, and way lower than the acquisition sticker. Actually, that was $170 million due at signing in 2007, with a reported payout of $150 million to the founders (a prize Viacom apparently wants back.)

Anyway, according to Viacom filings, Harmonix-related losses soiled the balance sheet by $316 million in 2010 alone. All three Rock Band titles lost money following the Viacom acquisition.

[SirFozzie]

"According to Viacom's Hollywood Accounting" that is.

They were being set up to fail. In fact, Harmonix is suing Viacom because they met Viacom-set up sales numbers to make large bonuses. Viacom paid for RB2, but refused to pay for RB3 and is now trying to claw back the bonus for Rock Band 2

[Pyser]

i doubt it, but i still hold out hope that this will give us more dlc for the beatles game

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Not that these are necessaily related, but I just finished reading an article about the fall of the Wii and then saw this:

Not to bring this back up again, but "Huh?"

VGChartz Hardware data for the period 07th Nov 2010 to 18th Dec 2010:

Console	Wii	PS3	X360
Total	6,577,014	3,658,113	4,253,405
America	3,592,989	1,483,024	2,766,321

SI

[saldana]

i bought this for my kids for christmas...almost choked when i went into gamestop and they told me you had to buy all the instruments separately now...the total cost would have been in the neighborhood of 500 bucks...fortunately, one of the more ghetto K-marts in the area still had the bundled up Beatles edition for 100 bucks, so i just got that and then bought RB3 and the keyboard separately...ive only ever played guitar hero once, so tomorrow morning should be interesting.

[dawgfan]

Opened mine for Xmas finally. Keys are going to be harder than I figured, at least until I can figure out how to tell where my hand is in relation to the keys and to stop bumping adjacent keys.

Anyone else find the RB3 interface to be slower and more clunky?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Opened mine for Xmas finally. Keys are going to be harder than I figured, at least until I can figure out how to tell where my hand is in relation to the keys and to stop bumping adjacent keys.

Anyone else find the RB3 interface to be slower and more clunky?

1) There's a little ridge near the center of the keys that'll help you tell when you've crossed from right hand into left hand territory.

1a) Yes, keys are more difficult than any of the other plastic instruments if you're playing pro keys (not much harder than guitar otherwise, if at all, if you're playing on non-pro, since the only difference is your thumb slides in and the others don't have to move as a result).

2) A little slower, I think because it loads song info in the interface every time you go in, I think, instead of one-and-done at the start.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Not to bring this back up again, but "Huh?"

VGChartz Hardware data for the period 07th Nov 2010 to 18th Dec 2010:




SI

The article was in my local paper and I can't find it online, but here are a couple of snippets I've found online that get at the same thing (I believe the article was looking at 12-month sales and the fact that Nintendo isn't making the typical profits off of games because the Wii system, by its nature, was targeted at infrequent gamers).

According to a report on the FT.com, analysts at Wedbush Morgan Securities are expecting Xbox sales to top a million in November, hitting 1,075,000 units in fact. That’s a 30% year-on-year increase, compared to the Wii which is down 23% on 2009's figures, on 975,000 units. The PS3 is expected to shift 650,000, which is down nearly 10% year-on-year, with the Move seemingly not having quite the same impact as Kinect has for the Xbox.

From GameDaily's Biggest Stories of 2010:

12. Wii Declines and Profits Drop

It might have been unheard of only a couple of years ago, but 2010 has not been a good year for the Wii. While New Super Mario Bros. Wii helped the system early in the year, sales were decidedly down for most of the year, and to give an example from October, software sales were down 26 percent and hardware sales were down a drastic 54 percent. Nintendo even posted a loss for the first time in seven years. The system fared better in November, but it still placed behind the Xbox 360. With the Move and Kinect now competing directly in the Wii's motion controls space it might take a price cut to make it “explode” again as EA CEO John Riccitiello would suggest.

[SackAttack]

The problem with Nintendo isn't that they carved significant market share out of the casual market.

It's that they basically eschewed the more reliable core market to do that.

Even with their 'core' franchises, reception has been kind of hit-or-miss once they started to tack back towards the core. Metroid: Other M didn't even sell a million. The "Super Guide" games like DKC Returns and New Super Mario Bros Wii clearly have their markets, but they're not the red meat for the core that I think Nintendo thought they would be.

The Catch-22, of course, is that the casuals haven't been buying Nintendo's newer first-party releases because "they feel more like video games." They aren't Wii Fit and the ilk.

So they're catching it from both sides after four years of printing money. Where do they go from here is the question; I don't think we've ever seen a scenario where Nintendo has gone gangbusters for half a generation and then had to reassess the business model.

[Mota]

After seeing Kinect all over TV in recent weeks and the buzz that it's getting with the casuals, it's obvious that Microsoft is targeting and starting to tap some of Nintendo's market share. After playing the Kinect pretty extensively over the last few days I feel that Wii may be in trouble. Kinect seems to replicate the experience that Wii has been flaunting for the past few years, but doing it so much better.

Playing Soccer in Kinect Sports with my son is great. We're jumping around, kicking, moving around and literally breaking a sweat. In Dance Central we're dancing. In Your Shape I'm doing a full workout with feedback from the computer. But at no time do I feel like I'm fighting a control scheme to get there. I just do it, and the Xbox recognizes it. Overall I'm very impressed and it's far more than I ever thought it would be.

Oh yeah, and Paul McCartney track pack released for Rock Band 3 today, downloading those for sure to play with the wife!

[CleBrownsfan]

Just saw that they released the Billy Joel pack a couple weeks ago.... There goes $20

[wade moore]

Setup the keyboard stand last night. Haven't actually put Rock Band 3 in the XBox yet, but plan to have a few people over this weekend to break it in .

[Ironhead]

Finally got this for Christmas and just started playing it yesterday. I agree with the sentiment that the user interface is a step down from the previous two games. Xbox Live name is Ironhead34 if anyone is interested.

[thesloppy]

I'm considering finally picking this up with the keyboard bundle, but am still confused about the pricing for 'upgrading' prior content/DLC. Do I really have to pay again for each individual song to be compatible with the new functionality?

[Greyroofoo]

All the older songs are compatible with pro drums, but I do believe you have to pay about a $1/song to make it compatible with pro guitar. Not 100% sure on that last sentence though as I don't have a pro guitar.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

All the older songs are compatible with pro drums, but I do believe you have to pay about a $1/song to make it compatible with pro guitar. Not 100% sure on that last sentence though as I don't have a pro guitar.

Thanks. And no harmonies/keyboards with old tracks, right?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Thanks. And no harmonies/keyboards with old tracks, right?

There was a report a while back that some of the older DLC will get upgrades to support keyboards (can't remember if they were going to do harmony vocal upgrades), but that you'd have to pay additional money for that upgrade. Same with pro guitar tracks.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Just saw that they released the Billy Joel pack a couple weeks ago.... There goes $20

That was gonna be the case for me as well. My 360 stopped fighting the good fight just before I got paid to the point I could've spent $20.

So it's an expense deferred.

[dawgfan]

DLC for this week: most of The Clash's "London Calling" album - I think that deserves a:

[Toddzilla]

when you say "most of" I can pretty much guess that "Death or Glory" isn't on it, which is a dealbreaker for me.