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[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

2013 season and I've got prospects randomly duplicating on my roster. Add that to getting low A/high A split as things that are making $20 seem a bit much. Compensation for Type A and B free agents is also running according to an old system. Nothing later than 2nd round picks exchange these days. The A ball and draft compensation things are deal breakers for a MLB simulation.

I suspect you'd get more attention if you posted over at OOTP and let people know what you're having problems with, because I'm almost certain you're not the first person to quibble about these specific things.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

2013 season and I've got prospects randomly duplicating on my roster. Add that to getting low A/high A split as things that are making $20 seem a bit much. Compensation for Type A and B free agents is also running according to an old system. Nothing later than 2nd round picks exchange these days. The A ball and draft compensation things are deal breakers for a MLB simulation.

sometimes players will appear twice on a roster but it is purely a display problem and not a 'double storage' issue. your other complaint about compensation for FA seems incredibly minor.

[Swaggs]

Still playing and enjoying this. It feels like it is the right combination of simulation and game. I haven't played OOTP, in depth like this, since 6.5 (although I bought later versions, I found them too burdensome to set up and get started to enjoy -- ie: it would take me so long to get the league set up, I wouldn't feel like playing it afterwards).

A couple of cool things:

I lead the Pirates to their first winning season (while remaining profitable) in 20-seasons w/ ~86 wins in my second season. The third season, we had some injuries and backslid and I got fired in early September (the team bounced back, got healthy, and still finished 82-80 which met the owner's expectation of .500). I held out until the end of the MLB season, despite numerous minor league job offers, and got offers from the Phillies, Mets, and White Sox. I took the White Sox because I liked the combination of owner, weaker division rivals, and their payroll. So far, I won the weak AL Central with 86-wins in the first season and then we had 101 wins in year two. Going from a budget of about $75-million to $180-million really makes a difference.

The league expanded last season, with the Charlotte Ocean and San Antonio (can't remember their nickname). Pretty cool.

I've also had a few minor, "random" rule changes and one that had a big impact: free agency after 5-years of big league service time (rather than six) and a few other minor changes. Pretty cool to see the league evolving, on its own, with time. Especially for a quick simmer like myself.

[Peregrine]

One change in a recent update is that in the History section you can view a screen which will show you all the rule changes over the years - once you've run 40 or 50 years it's interesting to see how much has changed.

Personally I love this game - I bought OOTP 10 and rarely played it but 11 has really hit my sweet spot. I don't run a team, I don't care about that aspect - I love just setting up fictional leagues, running in commissioner mode, following players and just watching history play out.

There are so many fantastic tools for this style of play - I love how you can go into the team history pages and see the season and career team leaders, as well as who played which positions on the team in each year, and it's all linked together so you can easily find out, for example, who were the keys that started a team on a four straight year World Series domination.

Awesomeness for the pure stats geek.

[Poli]

Starting in the minors...sucks. I've had absolutely no talent on any team and keep getting fired. lol

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

One change in a recent update is that in the History section you can view a screen which will show you all the rule changes over the years - once you've run 40 or 50 years it's interesting to see how much has changed.

Personally I love this game - I bought OOTP 10 and rarely played it but 11 has really hit my sweet spot. I don't run a team, I don't care about that aspect - I love just setting up fictional leagues, running in commissioner mode, following players and just watching history play out.

There are so many fantastic tools for this style of play - I love how you can go into the team history pages and see the season and career team leaders, as well as who played which positions on the team in each year, and it's all linked together so you can easily find out, for example, who were the keys that started a team on a four straight year World Series domination.

Awesomeness for the pure stats geek.

Sweet. Thanks for the tip on the history. I'm having trouble navigating through all the screens to find things (not that I'm complaining, I love that there is this much content). I just recently completed my fifth draft (3 with the Pirates and 2 with the White Sox) and it took me forever to find out where to find draft logs (they were in the almanac), so that I could check to see how well I did in my first draft (not well, but I had a cheap scout with my cheap organization -- although I did jack our international budget up and see that two of the signees are big contributors for the current Pirates. )

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Poli

Starting in the minors...sucks. I've had absolutely no talent on any team and keep getting fired. lol

I've never tried it, but that was why I was holding out for the big league job after getting fired. I enjoy the roster building aspect more than the field managment, so I don't think I would like not having any control over my roster.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Sweet. Thanks for the tip on the history. I'm having trouble navigating through all the screens to find things (not that I'm complaining, I love that there is this much content). I just recently completed my fifth draft (3 with the Pirates and 2 with the White Sox) and it took me forever to find out where to find draft logs (they were in the almanac), so that I could check to see how well I did in my first draft (not well, but I had a cheap scout with my cheap organization -- although I did jack our international budget up and see that two of the signees are big contributors for the current Pirates. )

One thing to keep in mind is that you can bookmark any screen (there is a drop down menu at the top left, the little book icon.) It makes things MUCH easier for screens you commonly use, since it hotkeys them and you can just press F3 for your player shortlist, F4 for roster, F6 for draft log, or whatever.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Personally I love this game - I bought OOTP 10 and rarely played it but 11 has really hit my sweet spot. I don't run a team, I don't care about that aspect - I love just setting up fictional leagues, running in commissioner mode, following players and just watching history play out.

This aspect of the game is the only thing that's kept me coming back, but this year I just lost interest in even that part of it. I realized that I never truly enjoyed this game playing out seasons (i don't like how FA works and I hate the way the roster moves/lineups/rotations are set up - very user-unfriendly and tedious, IMO), and now that my interest in simming and going over stats has waned, I think OOTP11 is my last purchase in this franchise. I probably spent 10-15 hours with this game in the first couple of weeks and never wanted to go back to it.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Receiving a 3rd round pick instead of a 1st round pick seems minor? That's been the MLB rule for nearly a decade now, there's no excuse for that not to be part of the game.

It should be correct, but labeling it a deal-breaker is pretty silly.

[BishopMVP]

In my game it is still working. I just got an extra 1st and a 4th in 2015 along with 2 supplementals, and I got an extra 1st last year for not signing a pick. Maybe you're getting a 2nd because the signing team is in the top 15, or they signed a different, higher-ranked type A.

If the Carolina League being below the South Atlantic on the minor league totem pole is really a dealbreaker, then I suggest you mod it or build a game yourself, because you're always going to find something that small wrong.

[Ksyrup]

That's true - didn't someone get screwed out of a 1st round pick 2 years ago when the Yankees signed every FA and their mother? I don't remember who it was (Toronto for Burnett? Anaheim for Tex? Milwaukee for Sabathia?), but they ended up with a much lower pick than they expected when they offered arbitration.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

In my game it is still working. I just got an extra 1st and a 4th in 2015 along with 2 supplementals, and I got an extra 1st last year for not signing a pick. Maybe you're getting a 2nd because the signing team is in the top 15, or they signed a different, higher-ranked type A.

If the Carolina League being below the South Atlantic on the minor league totem pole is really a dealbreaker, then I suggest you mod it or build a game yourself, because you're always going to find something that small wrong.

I suspect this is the HiFi's problem. The "offending" team probably just signed a higher profile Type A player (or signed one prior to signing another one) and had already forfeited its pick.

I've played about 4 or 5 offseasons now and this happened to me last season. I lost a Type A and got a supplemental first and Boston's 3rd rounder b/c they were in the top half of the draft and had already surrendered their #2.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, that's the deal - because the Yankees had signed Sabathia, Burnett, and Tex, whatever team it was got a ridiculously low draft pick because of the picks the Yankees surrendered for those 3 guys.

[Ksyrup]

Not so simple...

From keith law's blog several years ago, but I don't believe the rules have changed:

If a team signs more than one Type A free agent, its picks are parceled out to the "losing" clubs in an order determined by the ratings of the free agents the team signed. For example, Baltimore signed Baez, whose rating was 69.810, and Chad Bradford, whose rating was 62.890. Since Baltimore's first-round pick was protected, the Orioles lost their second-round pick to Atlanta (for Baez) and then their third-round pick to the Mets (for Bradford). If, however, the Orioles were to sign a Type A free agent with a rating higher than Baez's rating, then that player's former club would get Baltimore's second-round pick and Atlanta and the Mets would get the O's third- and fourth-round picks respectively.

Explaining Type A, B free agents - ESPN

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

That's not hard to figure out and it doesn't involve 3rd, 4th or any other round of picks.

Wrong. See above for a situation that would involve those picks.

[Ksyrup]

New CBA in 2008? Dude, please refrain from stating as fact something that has no basis in reality (which seems to be your MO on this board).

Point 1:

Manfred negotiates these kinds of terms with the Major League Baseball Players Association. The current Basic Agreement, agreed upon after the 2006 season, doesn't expire until Dec. 31, 2011.

Point 2:

When the Yankees agreed to terms with free-agent first baseman Mark Teixeira on an eight-year, $180 million deal Tuesday, it cost the Brewers an extra first-round pick in the amateur draft next June.

Teixeira was rated slightly higher than CC Sabathia among Class A free agents in the Elias Sports Bureau rankings, which determine free-agent compensation for their former clubs. Using a much-debated statistical formula covering the past two seasons, Elias gave Teixeira a ranking of 98.889, compared to 98.110 for Sabathia.

Accordingly, Teixeira's former club, the Los Angeles Angels, will receive a first-round pick in 2009 from the Yankees as compensation, and the Brewers will receive New York's second-round selection. Both clubs also will receive a sandwich pick between the first and second rounds as compensation for losing the free agents.

Teixeira was the only Class A free agent with a higher ranking than Sabathia, who signed with the Yankees for seven years and $161 million. The Angels will pick in the No. 26 spot in the first round next June in place of New York.

"It's not so much the system of compensation as the Elias rankings that we have problems with," said Brewers assistant general manager Gord Ash. "When those rankings come out every year, you scratch you head at how some of the players are ranked."

And imagine how the Toronto Blue Jays feel about losing free-agent pitcher A.J. Burnett to the Yankees. They now receive New York's third-round pick as compensation because Burnett (89.729) is ranked lower than both Teixeira and Sabathia by Elias.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Spending more time with it shows that there is no distinction on the A league level. That makes no sense as there's a clear delineation between the Carolina/California/Florida State leagues (A+, A Advanced, high A, whatever) and the South Atlantic/Midwest leagues. I know this has been brought up repeatedly to Markus and am surprised that it still hasn't been fixed.

To build a team with any sense of realism you can't have integral steps that don't work.

I'm not trying to get involved in the argument, because I'm sure you're right - all I know is that in a dynasty I was working on with minor league players, they would be promoted and demoted correctly between the various A level teams, even though there might not be any obvious distinction between them. I would watch them play well and get bumped up to a team that I checked on the web, is actually a higher level A team, or the reverse. So I don't know but maybe this is worked into the game dynamics somehow.

[Ksyrup]

What, do some research before opening your mouth? Wow, what a concept.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Spending more time with it shows that there is no distinction on the A league level. That makes no sense as there's a clear delineation between the Carolina/California/Florida State leagues (A+, A Advanced, high A, whatever) and the South Atlantic/Midwest leagues. I know this has been brought up repeatedly to Markus and am surprised that it still hasn't been fixed.

To build a team with any sense of realism you can't have integral steps that don't work.

Somehow teams managed to develop players with "only" 4 levels of minor leagues, and I find a way to do it without it destroying any sense of "realism". The High-A/Low-A/Step2-3 of a 6 step pyramid being combined really isn't that integral.

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

The new CBA in 2008 addressed those things directly and removed anything other than 1st/2nd round picks, and sandwich picks in the supplemental 1st round, as being part of FA compensation.

There would be no way to give multiple teams the same pick if a team signed multiple type A's, hence why the Blue Jays got the Yankees 3rd round pick last year for AJ Burnett (1 and 2 were for Teixeira and Sabathia), and finally there is no 2008 CBA - it's the 2007-2011 MLB Basic Agreement that is currently being operated under. But other than that, you're wrong.

[BishopMVP]

Dola - I do think OOTP assigns the supplemental picks in the wrong order - I think OOTP assigns them to the team with the worst record that lost a Type A and progresses to the best record, then repeats with Type B's instead of ranking the players and assigning the supplemental picks based off that, but that was based off looking at 1-2 years quickly, and I'd have to look deeper to be sure. (I'd also like a screen somewhere with Elias rankings during the season, since they've been cracked in real life - Elias Rankings Rumors: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com )

Plus, if something this small is a gamebreaker, where were you when FOF and TCY were released? Jim makes command decisions in those games much bigger than that (The importance of academics in TCY anyone?)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Dola - I do think OOTP assigns the supplemental picks in the wrong order - I think OOTP assigns them to the team with the worst record that lost a Type A and progresses to the best record, then repeats with Type B's instead of ranking the players and assigning the supplemental picks based off that, but that was based off looking at 1-2 years quickly, and I'd have to look deeper to be sure. (I'd also like a screen somewhere with Elias rankings during the season, since they've been cracked in real life - Elias Rankings Rumors: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com )

Plus, if something this small is a gamebreaker, where were you when FOF and TCY were released? Jim makes command decisions in those games much bigger than that (The importance of academics in TCY anyone?)

You are right that OOTP assigns them wrong, but you aren't right on how it does it.

OOTP assigns them in the order that the free agent is signed. I believe that was brought up before but it was something difficult to fix or change.

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Plus, if something this small is a gamebreaker, where were you when FOF and TCY were released? Jim makes command decisions in those games much bigger than that (The importance of academics in TCY anyone?)

This is really where I stand on this - every text sim out there has things that aren't realistic or systems that work in different ways that the real life sports. Basically you just have to make a decision about whether the things you like about a game outweigh what you don't. However you decide that's fine - personally I view that as a choice more than some title being a "bad game."

I will say that from what I've seen on the OOTP forums, baseball fans seem (generalization, of course) to be pickier when it comes to their text sims than fans of other sports.

[Swaggs]

Kind of morbid, yet funny. I just got an email telling me that my owner died and that his son was taking over ownership of the team.

[Swaggs]

Dola... I guess not really funny, but it goes to show how far we have come in text sims.