Survivor Samoa

[Mota]

I love it. Don't wanna see the 90210 crew come anywhere near winning. Just need that nasty Laura to go next.

[Swaggs]

Wow... Has anyone ever made it to the merge with less airtime than Kelly (the girl who got voted out tonight)? If so, I cannot remember who.

After the first few episodes, who would have thought that most people would be rooting for Russell and someone like Laura would look like the bad guy? Some really interesting characters this season, between those two and Shambo.

[Atocep]

Fantastic episode.

John would have been smart to silently stick with Russell. I think his chances would have been a lot better with the Foa Foa group than with Galu.

Russell wins this if he can get to the final vote, but I'm sure even the Foa Foa people see it so I doubt it'll happen.

Shambo has played smarter than I would have anticipated. She's also a threat to no one so she could one that's carried to the end.

I really have no clue how this season plays out, though. It's as up in the air as I can remember a season being this late in the game. Any one of the 10 remaining could win this.

[Lathum]

I have seen every season of Survivor and that was without a doubt one of the best moments. I loved the looks on all their faces when Russel stood up.

[Kodos]

Agreed with everyone else. GREAT episode. Heck, I even liked Erik's reactions to the blindside. This is turning out to be a real good season.

[Landshark44]

why did they vote out kelly, instead of one of the guys....?

dave would have been my choice...

[Kodos]

Yeah, Dave was more of a strategist. I think they did that because she was close with Laura.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Landshark44

why did they vote out kelly, instead of one of the guys....?

dave would have been my choice...

I think the point there was to weaken the girl trio that galu has. Dave would have been my 2nd choice, but one of the girls had to go, IMO.

If the Foa Foa group can flip John then my next vote would be Laura, then Dave, then Brett. Monica doesn't do anything so with Laura and Kelly gone I'd just leave her around until she had to go.

[Atocep]

Dola

I also think voting out Dave would have killed whatever slim hope there is of flipping Brett or John.

[Swaggs]

I wish Jeff wouldn't have announced that the idol was going back into play.

Anyway, I think that Shambo will go with the Foa Foa group against Laura or Monica, so that would give Galu a 5-5, at best, next vote. I think Russell might be able to get the Rocket Scientist to come over if he tells him he'll take him to the final 3 with someone (Shambo? Jaison?).

[EagleFan]

I was actually hoping they were going to end up voting someone other than Russell, just to then see his reaction of playing the idol twice without needing to.

At this point I unfortunately have no idea who I want to win. The other Russell was who I was pulling for but then he collapsed. I don't want asshat Russell anywhere near the final two/three (whatever they go with this time around).

I originally had Jayson on the list of who I wouldn't mind seeing win but then he started doing nothing but complaining and feeling sorry for himself.

It should be an entertaining end of the season though.

Oh, as I have wanted to say for several episodes... I don't think "threatening" means what Russell thinks it means...

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Dola

I also think voting out Dave would have killed whatever slim hope there is of flipping Brett or John.

And Shambo really hates those women - give her the satisfaction of getting rid of who she wants, and she's definitely on your side from now on (if that wasn't a lock already)

I haven't watched Survivor in a while - what happens if they're just locked 5-5 next time, with nobody willing to budge?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by molson

And Shambo really hates those women - give her the satisfaction of getting rid of who she wants, and she's definitely on your side from now on (if that wasn't a lock already)

I haven't watched Survivor in a while - what happens if they're just locked 5-5 next time, with nobody willing to budge?

In the past, they have usually had a re-vote without the two top vote getters participating and then, if they tie again, they have a challenge to see who can start a fire the fastest.

[Raiders Army]

The producers must've known Russell was going to play the idol. Something was a little fishy there with the way Jeff read the votes. If the producers didn't know that Russell was going to play the idol, a vote or two would've been revealed for Kelly early on...instead, it was built for dramatic impact when Jeff read votes for Russell and then votes for Kelly.

I was also thinking it's diabolical to read the votes that way. #1, the galu tribe was blindsided...and then #2, they didn't know who was going home for them.

[Kodos]

Yeah, they definitely re-order the votes sometimes. Especially in the finale.

[molson]

I'm sure they have the whole editing/filming system down to a science. It would really be an interesting book or something.

How do they create the feel of a show with cameras everywhere, even though we never see a camera? How do they seem to pick up all the important conversations between contestents (are they told to converse only at certain "stations", like "between those two trees", where there's always a camera?) When Russell plays the idol, does someone yell "cut!" and then the votes are immediately re-sorted?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Yeah, they definitely re-order the votes sometimes. Especially in the finale.

RA's comment was weird to me.

They ALWAYS re-order the votes. The person with the least votes ALWAYS has all of their votes read.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Yeah, Dave was more of a strategist. I think they did that because she was close with Laura.

Dave may be a strategist but his strategy is pathetic. For a guy who's supposed to have one of the highest IQs ever on the show, I'm disappointed at how simplistic his game is. I think somebody called it "J.V. Survivor" a couple episodes ago. His approach to the game was pretty much phased out about 15 seasons ago.

[Thomkal]

well as much as I disliked Russell earlier, he flat out deserves to win after finding two idols without a clue where to look for them. He won't win though, because the first time he goes without finding/winning one, he's out. And his own tribe can't afford to keep him around forever anyway because he easily beats any of them in a final two or three. Loved the reactions on their faces when he played the second idol, especially Dave's. Hope he's gone soon.

have to give Laura credit for winning two immunities in a row, she didn't know at the time that she would have been out otherwise, but still some clutch moments for her. She won't make it till the end either unless her tribe regains control of things.

I'm glad Jeff told them the idol would go back into hiding. The previews for next week are pretty funny with everyone searching for the idol/making sure Russell doesn't find it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Dave may be a strategist but his strategy is pathetic. For a guy who's supposed to have one of the highest IQs ever on the show, I'm disappointed at how simplistic his game is. I think somebody called it "J.V. Survivor" a couple episodes ago. His approach to the game was pretty much phased out about 15 seasons ago.

That was John and I agree, but then John fell right back into that group in this episode. As I said above, John would have been smart to stay with Foa Foa. If he sticks with them and just goes ahead and votes for Russell like Shambo then Galu really doesn't know anything, he's able to feed the others info, and he's gaining their trust. At this point if he tried to get back with Foa Foa it'd look like nothing more than him trying to save his ass now that things aren't going as planned.

Dave hasn't really done anything. I'm interested to see what he does from here, but right now he looks like nothing more than a pawn for Laura.

[Kodos]

I was impressed that Shambo actually thought to vote for Russell. Although Russell probably told her to do that.

[Landshark44]

does anyone think it's pssible that russell had some "help" finding the idol.....?

as the shows' most interesting character, it makes sense that they would want to keep him around........

[Kodos]

I doubt they'd do that. If word got out that it did, viewership would take a big hit.

[LloydLungs]

Maybe he didn't have help, but they could be hiding it a little better. I mean, geez. They used to actually bury it 10 paces from a tree or whatever -- somewhere you would at least need a clue. But kudos to Russell for taking the initiative and finding it anyway, especially since I don't think there was explicit word that there even WAS an idol to look for. Nobody else thought to do it, so good for him. Though I still think Natalie might be playing the best pure game of Survivor, even if Russell is dominating at "blindly find the idol."

[Dutch]

No way "Survivor" just gives the idol to somebody. He's just a crafty character.

[Maple Leafs]

I wish they weren't using the same idols each time. Imagine all the fake ones people would be making right now and scattering around.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I wish they weren't using the same idols each time. Imagine all the fake ones people would be making right now and scattering around.

That was my exact thought last night. If they weren't using the same idol imagine how funny it would be if someone mde a fake one and Russell found that one, just to see his reaction as Jeff tosses it into the fire would be priceless.

[lcjjdnh]

Two great episodes in a row. Tough not to be rooting for Russell now.

[Glengoyne]

I'm loving this Russell stuff. It just can't last though. He is moving up on my short list of Survivor favorites.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by lcjjdnh

Two great episodes in a row. Tough not to be rooting for Russell now.

Pretty easy to not be rooting for him. He's still a jackass no matter what else is going on.

[Swaggs]

Spoiler about next season -- has no effect on this season:

Spoiler

Next season will be Survivor 20 and it is an all-star edition. Russell is reportedly in the cast.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by wade moore

RA's comment was weird to me.

They ALWAYS re-order the votes. The person with the least votes ALWAYS has all of their votes read.

I know they always re-order the votes. What I was saying was that they must've re-ordered twice. The first re-order would've been something like:

Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Russell-Russell

The producers either knew for sure he was going to play the idol or they re-ordered after he played the idol because the votes were:

Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly

Also, the person with the least votes hasn't ALWAYS had all their votes read.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I know they always re-order the votes. What I was saying was that they must've re-ordered twice. The first re-order would've been something like:

Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Russell-Russell

The producers either knew for sure he was going to play the idol or they re-ordered after he played the idol because the votes were:

Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly

Also, the person with the least votes hasn't ALWAYS had all their votes read.

If you notice, they ALWAYS vote in the order that they are seated - left to right. Last episode, that is the way they sat at tribal. All of Galu was on the left, the Foa Four on the right. So they HAD to have re-arranged the votes - even in this case if it were just to flip them over.

[Maple Leafs]

Crazy thought: maybe they just sort the votes into piles per person and Jeff reads them in whatever order he feels like.

Just saying.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by lcjjdnh

Two great episodes in a row. Tough not to be rooting for Russell now.

He's one of the best players ever. This has been a very entertaining season, mostly because of him and now he has another hidden immunity idol and the numbers. Hopefully Russell lasts deep into the game before the other Foa Foa start trying to get him out because they know they can't beat him in the end.

It was good to see Laura go tonight in yet another great tribal council. Can't really blame John for not wanting to go the stupid rock tiebreaker where it's just a luck of the draw on who goes home.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

He's one of the best players ever. This has been a very entertaining season, mostly because of him and now he has another hidden immunity idol and the numbers. Hopefully Russell lasts deep into the game before the other Foa Foa start trying to get him out because they know they can't beat him in the end.

It was good to see Laura go tonight in yet another great tribal council. Can't really blame John for not wanting to go the stupid rock tiebreaker where it's just a luck of the draw on who goes home.

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

If you want to win you need to take a risk in that situation since one outcome leaves you pretty much no chance of winning and the other outcome gives you a 50% chance of regaining control of the game.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

If you want to win you need to take a risk in that situation since one outcome leaves you pretty much no chance of winning and the other outcome gives you a 50% chance of regaining control of the game.

I don't know that I agree with you there. I think it was pretty smart of John to do exactly what he did. If I'm not mistaken, I think Jeff said that the two people that were tied would not have to choose a rock and I would assume Mick (I think that's his name) and his immunity idol, along with Russell who would probably play his if allowed, and you are looking at a 1 in 6 chance to pull the rock.

Also, I think Monica's idea of telling them to vote for John kind of let him know where he stood in the old Galu tribe. As it is now, rather than being 5th or 6th in Galu, whose members have dominated the immunity challenges, he and Shambo can make the move as the tiebreaker with the Foa Foa tribe members, who have been weaker in immunity challenges and have to recognize that Russell needs to go before he gets too close to the end.

[Alan T]

I love this season so far. This has been my favorite season in quite a long time of Survivor.

[Kodos]

Yep. Three straight weeks of awesome. Love Russell.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

I don't think it's a numbers game anymore though, not in the classical sense of tribe vs. tribe. That's outdated Survivor strategy. The Foa Foas haven't broken because they've been behind and haven't really had any choice but to stay together. I think they could break now that they're ahead (counting Shambo). I'll come back and highlight this if I'm wrong, but I think it's highly, highly unlikely this goes so cleanly that they just pick off the rest of the Galus one by one. In modern Survivor, players that let rigid tribal lines guide their post-merge strategy tend to get beat.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Also, I think Monica's idea of telling them to vote for John kind of let him know where he stood in the old Galu tribe. As it is now, rather than being 5th or 6th in Galu, whose members have dominated the immunity challenges, he and Shambo can make the move as the tiebreaker with the Foa Foa tribe members, who have been weaker in immunity challenges and have to recognize that Russell needs to go before he gets too close to the end.

This was the stupid idea of the show-not the idea itself really, but telling John about it. It gave him all the incentive he needed to foil that idea and kick Laura out. And the looks on her and Dave's face when he went and did that was priceless. Those two really are idiots in this game. If I were a Foa Foa I might want to take on of them to the end just to point out what idiots they were.

[Kodos]

Every tribal council, Dave gets that surprised/stupid look on his face. Last night with the audible "Wow!".

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

If you want to win you need to take a risk in that situation since one outcome leaves you pretty much no chance of winning and the other outcome gives you a 50% chance of regaining control of the game.

I have to disagree too. At some point the people with Russell have to figure out where they are in the pecking order and will turn on him too. John & Shambo would be #5 & #6 with either group so they just need to get #4 and one more and the game flips again. I hope Russell wins, but I think the other's will figure out in due time that they need to blindside him soon or he's going to runaway with the game.

[Swaggs]

I'm surprised by Dave, as well. I thought he was just playing dumb in the first several episodes, but I don't think it is an act. John's analysis during one of his one-on-ones with the camera was pretty spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Galu had the physical/challenge advantage, but they seem to be idiots when it comes to the strategic portions of the game. I can't see any of the four that voted for Natalie coming close to winning (I'll probably be wrong). Russell, Mick, Natalie, and John seem like the only ones that I can see winning.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm surprised by Dave, as well. I thought he was just playing dumb in the first several episodes, but I don't think it is an act. John's analysis during one of his one-on-ones with the camera was pretty spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Galu had the physical/challenge advantage, but they seem to be idiots when it comes to the strategic portions of the game. I can't see any of the four that voted for Natalie coming close to winning (I'll probably be wrong). Russell, Mick, Natalie, and John seem like the only ones that I can see winning.

Something to think about is going to be the makeup of the jury will be primarily very heavy former Galu members no matter what the final 2 (or 3) end up being. There are a few from the former Galu tribe that likely aren't fond of their former tribe members (Eric, Shambo, John), but that still leaves a pretty large voting block for someone like Dave or Monica if they do make it to the final possibly.

I'm wondering how this ends up playing out but I think Shambo and John need to really make sure to team up and try to work down both of the other groups so they don't end up the odd men out at some point.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I have to disagree too. At some point the people with Russell have to figure out where they are in the pecking order and will turn on him too. John & Shambo would be #5 & #6 with either group so they just need to get #4 and one more and the game flips again.

Any dominant alliance of more than four people is ripe to be picked clean of its stragglers. Survivor has matured to the point where even average strategic players can suss out the weak links in a big alliance.

Of course, it's true that, if any alliance is going to meekly die out one-by-one in Survivor 19, it might be this former Galu group, which seems to be getting its strategic leadership from Dave -- one of the most disappointing players in awhile on this show. Dave's simplistic vision of Survivor might merely involve moping and waiting to get picked off from here on out.

[Racer]

I think it's hard to say whether John made the right decision without knowing two things:

1. Where did John stand in his current alliance? The Galu alliance, had it stuck together, only had a 3/7th chance or about a 43% chance of winning the tiebraker. I'd probably take those odds if I was in good with my alliance, but if I was 5th or 6th, then no.

2. Did John talk with the other Foa Foas to see how they feel about getting rid of Russell after a couple more tribal councils? Natalie, Jaison, and Mick all should realize they probably aren't going to win a jury vote against Russell. Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean John didn't discuss this. If he didn't, then I don't think he should have made the move.

Monica's plan reminds me a bit of Cirie's plan from Fans vs. Favorites when Cirie successfully got Erik to give up immunity. It could have worked, but only against a naive opponent. No way it was going to work against Russell. Also, she should have thrown out someone who was comfortable with their name be in the line of fire such as possibly Dave. Implementing it before consulting John first does nothing but decrease trust.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Racer

I think it's hard to say whether John made the right decision without knowing two things:

1. Where did John stand in his current alliance? The Galu alliance, had it stuck together, only had a 3/7th chance or about a 43% chance of winning the tiebraker. I'd probably take those odds if I was in good with my alliance, but if I was 5th or 6th, then no.

I think it's clear he was no better than 4th in the Galu Alliance. Dave, Laura, and Monica seemed very tight. I have no idea where Brett sits because he really hasn't had any camera time this season. Had they stuck together then I think he falls behind Kelly and possibly Erik as well.

I think John made the best decision for him right now, however, if he jumps to Foa Foa when he originally thought about it 2 episodes ago then he'd be in much better shape to go deep in the game. Outside of Shambo, everyone at Galu has played the game so conservatively since the merge that they're going to have a hard time winning if they do make it to the end because none of them have really done anything that stands out.

Originally Posted by Racer

Monica's plan reminds me a bit of Cirie's plan from Fans vs. Favorites when Cirie successfully got Erik to give up immunity. It could have worked, but only against a naive opponent. No way it was going to work against Russell. Also, she should have thrown out someone who was comfortable with their name be in the line of fire such as possibly Dave. Implementing it before consulting John first does nothing but decrease trust.

I don't think words can describe how stupid that was. They should have discussed the possibility as a group and then waited to see if someone would volunteer to have their name put down. As you said, tossing John's name out there without talking to him about it first sealed Laura's fate last night.


As for Russell, it's easy for us to sit and claim Russell clearly wins if he makes it to the final vote, but I'm not sure the other players see it that way. We know the person that should win doesn't always win and the jury votes can be unpredictable. On top of that, Russell has been seen as a "snake" since the merger. That's been a turnoff for some jury members in the past.

[Atocep]

Btw, this is the best 3 episode stretch I can recall.

Russel is probably one of the top 5 players ever on the show.

Natalie has been the biggest surprise as a player I can remember.

All in all, a fantastic season.

[Glengoyne]

This season has me not writing off Survivor. Really good stuff. Russell running away from Dave, losing him, and then going right back to where the two of them were standing to pick up the idol...was great.

If I were Russell, I'd have spent the next day and a half searching for the damn Idol, while it stayed hidden in my pocket. Of course it looks like his time may have been better spent getting rid of Laura.

Great season so far, and the Jury reactions are wonderful so far. I'm actually looking forward to next week.