Arena Football League to cease operations

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Why in the heck did the Dallas team change their team name/mascot? The Dallas Desperadoes was pretty badass...does it have something to do with the old owners owning the rights to that name or something?

Their branding was heavily tied into the Dallas Cowboys branding and Jerry Jones still owns the rights to that name.

Their new look is 100% bush league though, goodness gracious.

[cuervo72]

Iowa not doing too well.

Shouldn't there be a 2010 season thread or something?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Shouldn't there be a 2010 season thread or something?

Why? So I can have a thread all to myself?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Why? So I can have a thread all to myself?

What are you talking about? We would all follow you in to tease you.

[Chief Rum]

Seriously, though, Arena Football always looked to me like I would enjoy it, but whenever I have tried to get into it, I don't know, hasn't hooked. Maybe I'll give it another try.

[Flame Eater]

Arena football is like hockey. It's a great "live-at-the-arena" type sport that doesn't translate to TV very well, imho. Loud music, dancing girls, guys getting smacked over the boards, beers. Lots of fun. If you have a local squad, I highly recommend it.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm a little sad that the NFL Network is only airing games on Fridays. That's my bowling league night. On the bright side, all games except NFL Network games will air live on the internet (if I understand correctly), so I can catch some of those Saturday games. I am such an AFL nerd.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Dola

Watching the end of last night's Milwaukee-Spokane game right now. With 58 seconds to go, Milwaukee was up 61-49. Final score: Milwaukee 74, Spokane 62. The teams combined for 26 points in the final minute. I love this game.

[Dutch]

If anybody could convince an entire bowling league to change their night to Thursday...it would be you. Please let us know how it turns out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seems the AFL found a way to make Saturday night Sportscenter

ArenaFan Online: AFL ArenaFan Originals... - Wilson, Sippio Ejected for Going Into Stands

TAMPA BAY -- With 0:41 remaining in the second quarter and the Orlando Predators leading the Tampa Bay Storm 42-14, a ruckus broke out at the St. Pete Times Forum. An altercation began in the stands between the Predators OL/DL Julius Wilson and some fans. Later on, WR Bobby Sippio joined the ruckus in the stands.

Brighthouse Sports Network reported that the altercation began over a football being thrown into the stands. Wide receiver Bobby Sippio had just caught a touchdown pass and threw the ball into the stands to his father. The ball was batted away. Wilson attempted to get the ball back to Sippio's father when the dispute broke out.

An Orlando Predators team representative later reported that the altercation involved Wilson's father. Per the team representative, the ball was handed to Wilson's father, who had the ball batted out of his hands. The ruckus broke out when fans were "kicking and punching" Wilson's father, who was knocked to the ground. Wilson retaliated by going into the stands. Sippio followed.

Both Wilson and Sippio were ejected from the game immediately before play could continue.

The Predators expect Wilson to be suspended for upcoming games, but no comment was made about the future status of Sippio.

[Ksyrup]

They score 12 TDs a game. Surely he could have given him the next one.

[Shkspr]

I'm sure nobody's hands are clean in this, but the slant of this article makes me think that if there's ever justification for fighting at the risk of your job, it's to go to your father's aid.

[Pumpy Tudors]

The AFL is surviving much better than I expected it to. Several cities that had AFL franchises in the past are coming in for 2011: Philadelphia, San Jose, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and New Orleans. The Georgia Force will also be back, although I've read that they would be playing in Gwinnett rather than in Atlanta. My thoughts on this:

1. I'll be torn between two teams. The VooDoo got me into arena football, but I will be going to Pittsburgh games. This will be weird for me.

2. I never expected that the AFL would get back to some of their former cities so quickly. I really expected Philadelphia and San Jose to wait another year or two. I didn't expect New Orleans or Georgia to come back at all. Pittsburgh's been an expansion rumor for years, but it's finally happened.

3. Much to my surprise, this league looks like it can survive another 20 years as long as they play it smart. Don't expand much more, build the fan bases in your own cities before trying to get fans in non-AFL cities, and keep the salaries manageable.

4. I'm really looking forward to next season!

[JediKooter]

How are the Raiders looking in pre-season?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Eight months after my last post in this thread, I'm pleased with the progress of the AFL. The league is averaging about 8200 fans per game (and that number is brought down by the disaster in Milwaukee, which only brings in 2800 a game). I'm a Pittsburgh season ticket holder, and Pittsburgh is second in average attendance to Orlando, and Pittsburgh has drawn the highest single-game crowd all season. No, the league isn't pulling in 13000 people per game like it used to, but salaries are down, ticket prices seem reasonable across the league, and every game can be watched either on NFL Network or online. So even though attendance is cut by 1/3, the league can survive.

If the league keeps going for another couple of years - and I think it will - some better players will find their way into it. Right now, some of the teams are just horrible, frankly. New Orleans and Tampa Bay are AF2 teams in AFL clothing, Tulsa has no passing game, and Philadelphia is out of gas because they had to play their first 4 (!) games on the road. I think all of those teams except New Orleans will have a chance to improve and are likely to stick around long-term. Once the teams show some stability, they'll bring in the better players (especially quarterbacks), and that will improve things.

I don't think the AFL is far from being a moderate success again. Trim Milwaukee and New Orleans, get a team back into Los Angeles or New York, and start developing some quarterbacks. Don't get out of control with the spending, and the AFL could have another 20 years of life.

I'll be at the Pittsburgh game vs. Jacksonville on Saturday night. Go Power!

[RainMaker]

The Milwaukee problems are odd. I used to go to Mustang games in the 90's and they had decent attendance. It was a lot of fun and affordable. Todd Hammel was the man. Although maybe having a team in Chicago hurts a bit. I was driving up from nothern Illinois and would have probably just gone to a Rush game had they been around.

[EagleFan]

8200 fans per game. They're outdrawing the Nationals (if you take away the Phillies fans that went down for the games).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Attendance for the "new" Georgia Force (new franchise, same name) has averaged 5300 or so for the first two home games, third lowest in the league with about half what they drew back in '08.

Team is 3-1, so that isn't the problem. It isn't the arena holding them back, hell the ECHL Gladiators averaged 5,100 a night with a sub-500 team, and I believe the final season of the previous franchise was played in the same building they're in now. My best guess would be that they simply don't have pockets deep enough to promote heavily in an expensive media market like Atlanta, certainly less visible now than when Arthur Blank owned them for several years.

I imagine it'll pick up once school is out, right now the Braves would be getting the weekend sports action (since they're dead on weeknights until school ends) but truth is, I'm not feeling it. Also, I suspect things are somewhat shaky financially, they were hustling hard on the sponsorship end & damned near willing to give away the store for next to nothing. Explored them for a client a few months back, I've literally seen higher price tags for less visibility for high school football sponsorships.

[RainMaker]

I never understood the insistence of the AFL to push big cities. I always thought they'd do better having a strong presence in 2nd and 3rd tier cities. Des Moines, Spokane, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Tulsa, Salt Lake City, etc. Sure 10,000 might not seem like a great draw, but expenses are much cheaper and fans are more loyal. There are some big cities that can work. Chicago has done well although I think that's largely in part to some aggressive marketing and the fact Ditka was the face of the franchise. He has a lot of pull in this city and is always doing some local sports radio bit promoting the team.

If you haven't been to a game, you really should. Not sure if tickets are as cheap as they used to be, but they should be considerably less than most sports. The games are incredibly fun, high scoring, and casual. A great family atmosphere. Sort of what you'd get if you mixed an NFL game with the arena style entertainment of an NBA game (lights, music, mascots, etc). You won't care much about the result, although the games almost always tend to be close. It's good, cheap entertainment.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Not sure if tickets are as cheap as they used to be, but they should be considerably less than most sports.

Out of curiosity (since I hadn't looked), I checked. Range is $10 for upper deck end zone to $161 for damned near on the bench.

Corner of the end zone is $20, red zone is $35, mid field (high/mid/low) are $30/$45/$60.

By comparison, behind the dugout for the Gwinnett Braves is $17.50, 1st row behind home plate is $37.50. Gladiators hockey was $17 anywhere on the sides, $30 on the glass, $20 for club level (best place in that building to watch pretty much anything)

Yep, I'm starting to see the problem here. It's perceived as a low minors sport at best, but the price point is all wrong for that (at least in this market).

edit to add: I'm talking about the perception locally, not necessarily nationally. As I think Pumpy mentioned up the thread a bit, some of these teams are pretty close to AFL2 quality right now. I think the Force has a total of 1 D1 player on their roster (I went and looked again while typing, it's actually 7 of 24, with a few I-AA and roughly half from DII or below). Find a few guys people have some inkling of who they are, even if they're career backups, from schools local fans might recognize and it'd probably help at least a little bit. Hell, I don't even know where the QB's alma mater is (Linfield) and I can name more sports playing schools than the average bear.

Then again, spelling the alma mater of your 310 pound FB (Lenoir-Rhyne) correctly on your online roster might up the professionalism a little bit too.

[Ksyrup]

I appreciate the existence of the various arena leagues, if for no other reason than the absurdity of reading headlines like, "Lorenzen tosses 9 TDs in come-from-behind win."

[QuikSand]

I like seeing an old thread revived, and noticing the indicator that I apparently posted in it some time ago.

I like perusing a thread like this, with that in mind, hoping that whatever twaddle I had to say back then remains something I can stand behind. Cheap one-off semi-trivia reference here FTW. I'm not always proud, but I like it when the me of years ago more or less posted what the me of today wants to say when re-reading the thread without really remembering.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Out of curiosity (since I hadn't looked), I checked. Range is $10 for upper deck end zone to $161 for damned near on the bench.

Corner of the end zone is $20, red zone is $35, mid field (high/mid/low) are $30/$45/$60.

By comparison, behind the dugout for the Gwinnett Braves is $17.50, 1st row behind home plate is $37.50. Gladiators hockey was $17 anywhere on the sides, $30 on the glass, $20 for club level (best place in that building to watch pretty much anything)

Yep, I'm starting to see the problem here. It's perceived as a low minors sport at best, but the price point is all wrong for that (at least in this market).

The Chicago team seems similar, if not a little more expensive. I guess they benefit from being located in the wealthier suburban area. Still surprised they can get that kind of turnout. Then again, minor league hockey did extremely well here too.

I still have the ticket stub for the Milwaukee Mustang games I used to go to. $4 for upper deck. Can't beat that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The Chicago team seems similar, if not a little more expensive. I guess they benefit from being located in the wealthier suburban area.

Well Gwinnett is about as affluent as Atlanta 'burbs get with the exception of a few sub-areas (i.e. north Fulton Co, east Cobb Co.)

Still surprised they can get that kind of turnout.

Might simply be as much about the relative popularity of pro football in the two markets. I mean, the G-Day spring game here in Athens this weekend could very well draw more people than the Force will get all season.

Then again, minor league hockey did extremely well here too.

One of the best bangs for the sports dollar in most markets, this was actually a down year for the Gladiators both on the ice and in the stands. Not sure how much longer they're going to make it honestly, simply because they're in such a rut that they aren't nearly as much fun to watch as when they were consistently competitive. Minor league hockey is awesome, unless it's bad minor league hockey which can be kind of painful to sit through (trust me, I saw that down in Macon with two franchises)

As for more obscure but fun sports in general, I still think that pro indoor soccer in Atlanta was at worst arguably the most fun I've ever had at any sporting event. Those damned evil Canton Invaders (circa 89-91) were as much fun to have as a rival as you could ask for.

[RainMaker]

I don't know if the minor league hockey team does as well now that the Blackhawks are good. They got real popular when the Blackhawks were horrible and the owner was trash. They came up with an amazing marketing strategy. They put up billboards throughout the city saying "Playoff Hockey is in Chicago" with their logo. It sort of became a running joke about which team was actually better. Tickets were cheap, games were good, and the atmosphere was nice.

The Rush have Ditka plastered over everything which I mentioned. I suppose a part of minor league sports is how well you are able to market the team. I wonder if they filled that roster with some guys who played locally if it would help. I do think Eric Zeier was on the roster at one point over there.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I like seeing an old thread revived, and noticing the indicator that I apparently posted in it some time ago.

I like perusing a thread like this, with that in mind, hoping that whatever twaddle I had to say back then remains something I can stand behind. Cheap one-off semi-trivia reference here FTW. I'm not always proud, but I like it when the me of years ago more or less posted what the me of today wants to say when re-reading the thread without really remembering.

The move here is to not look at the user names as you scroll through the posts. Try to figure out what you may have said, and when you can't find it, go back again and realize that 15 seconds before, you were calling yourself a schmuck.

I do it all the time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know if the minor league hockey team does as well now that the Blackhawks are good.

They may also not be doing as well because they're in a horribly matched marriage with the Thrashers that doesn't seem to make anyone happy. Chicago fans gripe about the quality of players & the roster moves, Atlanta fans gripe about the lack of quality ice time for the prospects (or suspects) and lack of coaching.

[rjolley]

The Georgia Force play out this way in Gwinett? Never knew that.

Actually, didn't know about the Force either...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

The Georgia Force play out this way in Gwinett? Never knew that. Actually, didn't know about the Force either...

They started out there, then moved to Phillips for a couple of years when Blank owned them. Now the revived franchise (really just a new franchise that bought the rights to the old name) is back at Gwinnett Arena.

[Landshark44]

i took my family to three inexpensive games this week. we went to see the philadelphia union (mls), the lakewood blue claws,(minor league baseball team), and the philadelphia soul. my wife and two boys would all agree football is our favorite sport.

my wife hates soccer, but enjoyed the union game very much. i hate baseball, but managed to have a good time at the blueclaws game...

we all hated the soul game, to the point we left in the fourth quarter when the game was tied at 41. it was a nonstop barrage of advertising. every penalty was brought to you by LUNDYLAW, "call 1800lundylaw for your needs". after every play we were encouraged to go to chick filet after the game, or buy a chevy, or eat peanut chews.....

it sucked so bad......and i totally went into it, not only with an open mind, but fully expecting to enjoy the experience....we all couldn't wait to leave....

[Pumpy Tudors]

welp it ain't for everybody

[sterlingice]

That's kindof a neat week, tho- "Family Sports Week: Featuring MLS, AFL, and Class A baseball"

SI

[Landshark44]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

welp it ain't for everybody

i'm not trying to put down something you enjoy in any way. i've watched games on tv before and found them to be quite entertaining....

but that was my first "live" game, and found the presentation to be quite irritating, as did almost everyone in my section. i'm not exagerating, when i say that they advertised something between every play. they actually referred to the penalty flags as "yellow lundylaw flags" and gave out the phone number after every penalty..

is this just a philly thing? or do all teams do this....?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Landshark44

i'm not trying to put down something you enjoy in any way. i've watched games on tv before and found them to be quite entertaining....

but that was my first "live" game, and found the presentation to be quite irritating, as did almost everyone in my section. i'm not exagerating, when i say that they advertised something between every play. they actually referred to the penalty flags as "yellow lundylaw flags" and gave out the phone number after every penalty..

is this just a philly thing? or do all teams do this....?

No, I didn't think you were just blindly putting it down, nor did I take any offense to it. The game really isn't for everybody (nothing is), so if you were turned off by something at the game, that's fine. It does suck that the experience was ruined by something that wasn't happening on the field, but I guess that's how Philadelphia runs things.

I can tell you that not all teams do that. I've been to several games in New Orleans and Pittsburgh, and that's never happened at any of the games I attended. I'm hoping that maybe the Soul just had way too much to advertise for their home opener and it'll slow down in the future, but I really don't know. Still a bummer that they ruined the game for you.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Had a random AFL moment this morning, figured I'd drop it into the thread.

Back in January we explored marketing opportunities with the Georgia Force. Didn't fit the client's needs or budget, no harm no foul.

Got an inquiry out of the blue from a different sales rep for them today, rather desperately trying to get a meeting to discuss possibilities for the 2012 season (which begins in like 10 months). Politely pointed him toward August as the time we'd start looking more closely at 2012 (client is on calendar year for budgeting)

Let me see here ... you're next to last in attendance in the league (crowds consistently smaller than even medium sized HS games), you're urgently trying to drum up trade for next year before this one is even half over (definitely not the norm for even minor league franchises), hmm ...

My advice would be for AFL fans not to start booking trips to Georgia to watch their favorite team on the road next year just yet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Timely follow-up to my previous post about the Force.

Saw a press release today announcing the hiring of a new team president (Cory Howerton, ex-GM of the Cleveland Gladiators) who will be responsible for "all business activities of the club including ticket & sponsorship sales, game operations, media relations and community relations".

He's also got his own sports & entertainment company to run, "to serve the growing needs of specialty corporate driven partnerships within the sports industry".

The real question here seems to be whether he can also cook hot dogs for the concession stand & when he's going to find time to do the team laundry.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Now this is my kind of AFL ticket deal.

Got an email from the Gwinnett Arena mailing list. Free tickets for the final home game next Saturday night.

Well "free" turned out to be $0.75 each svc charge & $3.25 processing fee but for 4 tickets $6.75 total ain't a bad deal at all. 2nd row upper deck (small bldg though, so that's cool) on the aisle, corner of the end zone.

#2 team in the East vs the #1 team in the West, so the matchup ought to be decent. Between the two teams, there's exactly two players I've ever heard of - Maurice Purify (Nebraska WR) and Vince Vance (UGA OL). Otherwise it sort of feels like they've grabbed 40 guys out of the stands & given them uniforms.

[GrantDawg]

I wish I lived closer to Gwinnett. Well, technically I am closer than you, but not with the pain in the butt traffic between here and there. I really want to get to a Gwinnett Braves game someday. It is just a heck of a lot easier to get to Turner Field.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I wish I lived closer to Gwinnett. Well, technically I am closer than you, but not with the pain in the butt traffic between here and there. I really want to get to a Gwinnett Braves game someday. It is just a heck of a lot easier to get to Turner Field.

G-Braves is a pretty good experience IMO (although the concession prices are simply absurd), not as much pure baseball fun as the old ballpark at Macon but still good. I still want to try out Rome for comparisons sake.

I love me some Gwinnett Arena though, just a great fan experience whether it's hockey or concerts. The attitude of the staff makes such a difference, or rather the [i]lack[/] of attitude from the staff vs the yellow-shirt temp hire nazis at the Dome. Easily my favorite venue, one of the precious few that I don't absolutely dread dealing with.

I do give pretty high marks to the new Verizon Amphi in Alpharetta too, still has that new venue smell to it ... as opposed to the smell that has accumulated over years of hard use at Lakewood

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lord have mercy that was rough.

Chicago wins 51-41 but it wasn't remotely that close, Georgia trailed by 30+ for chunks of the game & were never truly in it.

The last time I saw football that ugly there were 7 year olds involved & it was raining. The talent level (or lack thereof) is atrocious, I'd put what I saw roughly on par with the old AFL2, certainly nothing like what I recall from the previous incarnation of the league. Despite that, Chicago appears to have at least a handful of players who've not only played football before but also are receiving some coaching prior to the game. Georgia on the other hand looked as though they hit a couple of neighborhood bars late Friday/early Saturday & offered guys $50 to come play a game. You know it's bad when just before halftime my kid asks "think they'll have any Rush stuff at the merchandise table?"

Other odd random observations ... that was the whitest crowd I been with in years. Both minor league hockey & a Metallica concert in the same building were more diverse. Wasn't really expecting that ... Trust me, the press releases trumpeting the game as a "sell out" were a farce of TNA Wrestling proportions. They started offering free tickets last week so they may have run out of tickets to distribute but at no point was the building ever more than 60% full. The announced attendance of 9,000+ was downright comical, several people in my section actually kind of looked around like "huh? Where?" ... Given the embarrassing (at least I hope they were embarrassed) performance of the home team, it's probably a good thing that most of the freebie tickets weren't used (based on the almost empty upper section), that was definitely not something you'd want a fan you're trying to buy tickets in the future to have seen.

For essentially free & with less than an hours drive to the arena, it was a okay enough one-time thing to do on a Saturday night that had no other plans. But I wouldn't pay a buck to watch the product in its current form.