Cops Kill Mentally Challenged Teen Using "Non-Lethal" Force

[ted_hughes]

Another question is, should tasers be used on people who cost their team a national championship with a pass interference penalty?

[Lathum]

dola- Police also have a right to protect themselves. Someone flees from a car during a traffic stop police are trained to assume the worst and act accordingly. That act is to apprehend the person with as little harm as possible.

[panerd]

Well it looks like it happened April 10th so I guess some back research on what the kid's disability was are probably covered in a Detriot newspaper at some point between then and now. Can't say I am interested enough to dig it up but I would be interested if someone else did. This does smell fishy like the disability is a red herring.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

It's like no one is ever innocent in these threads other than the cops.

You must have never been in one of these threads before.

[RedKingGold]

Gators CB Jenkins arrested near bar

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By Joe Schad
ESPN.com
Archive
Florida Gators starting cornerback Janoris Jenkins was arrested over the weekend and charged with fighting and resisting arrest without violence, police in Gainesville, Fla., confirmed.

Police used a Taser on Jenkins, who punched someone in the head after being told not to.

The incident occurred at closing time near a bar in downtown Gainesville.
Jenkins was named to the Freshman All-SEC team last year and become the second true freshman in school history to start at cornerback on opening day.

"Sir, please stop punching that person in the head or we will have to subdue you."

My motto: Tase first, ask questions later.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The bottom line is police carry tasers for situations exactly like this one, if they aren't going to use them in a situation like this one then they shouldn't be carrying them.

I AGREE. I have said as much like 3 times here. I just get tired of the whole blame whoever isn't the police, instead of just saying that it's sad and not laying blame until more facts come out.

Of course the family is wrong for calling it murder, but I guess it's an understandable emotional response. Maybe after they have a chance to cool down, they'll be more reasonable. Probably not, but hopefully.

Sorry if I thought you implied something you didn't. I just get annoyed by these threads. They're very predictable.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

Well it looks like it happened April 10th so I guess some back research on what the kid's disability was are probably covered in a Detriot newspaper at some point between then and now.

Not very well I'm afraid, other a comment by the family “Robert was shy. He was learning disabled and he tried to stay in school but he wasn’t learning anything and he couldn’t get along with the children because he couldn’t keep up in class,” McGlory said. “He was sort of home schooled

Another article mentioned that he was on medication for ADD and a comment by family members that he may have had asthma. I've went through at least a half dozen articles from three different papers & found nothing that really spelled out the supposed disability beyond that. Actually, there's relatively little on the story outside of various blogs until the protests & lawsuits began.

Of course their "coverage" and the subsequent CNN stories omit a number of details that show up in the original articles, like the fact that he ditched a bag when exiting the vehicle (witnesses say it was picked up by a passer-by), or that he ditched his jacket while fleeing, or that he became combative when officers were trying to pat him down.

Instead we're treated to vague assertions about an alleged learning disability because that makes a better headline.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

My motto: Tase first, ask questions later.

Or just put away the tasers & go back to conventional firearms.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

My motto: Tase first, ask questions later.

Jesus Christ, we actually agree on something.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Lathum

As far as the kid being mentally disabled if his disability was that severe maybe he shouldn't have been riding around unsupervised?

He wasn't unsupervised.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

He wasn't unsupervised.

Might as well have been apparently.

[DanGarion]

Shouldn't the title be.

"Kid Runs From Cops, Is Tasered And Dies Of Complications"?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

He wasn't unsupervised.

Maybe I should have said supervised by people competent enough to ensure something like this doesn't happen

[Noop]

Originally Posted by ted_hughes

Another question is, should tasers be used on people who cost their team a national championship with a pass interference penalty?

That's fine at least he has a master degree from a respectable University and has experienced the NFL. You're just a fan who does not know how much he put into the university.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Shouldn't the title be.

"Kid Runs From Cops, Is Tasered And Dies Of Complications"?

Not inflamatory enough.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Shouldn't the title be.

"Kid Runs From Cops, Is Tasered And Dies Of Complications"?

I don't think this sells papers.

Although I have to credit the editor with not going with something like "Pigs Roast Retard".

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by molson

Not inflamatory enough.

Right they aren't selling news here they are selling stories...

[RainMaker]

If cops can't subdue and handcuff a 5'2 110-pound disabled kid without a taser, they should not be cops. I have no problem with tasers being used in certain situations, but what kind of fucking pussies do you have on your force if they couldn't subdue a kid that size?

And I'm not trashing the cops for what happened. Tasers rarely kill. I just don't see how they had trouble arresting a kid that size.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Noop

Time to reconsider the use of the taser as a non-lethal weapon? Perhaps lower the voltage.

There's no way that a taser should be considered non-lethal by police forces.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Although I have to credit the editor with not going with something like "Pigs Roast Retard".

Then there's the blogosphere ...

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Maybe I should have said supervised by people competent enough to ensure something like this doesn't happen

You can't always prevent someone from doing something. If somoone were in the car with you and decided to get out in a panic, could you stop them? Would you make the correct split-second decision during a traffic-stop? Jump out and chase him? Dive for him across the car? What do you do? Maybe the kid should just be tied down in the basement?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Noop

5'2 110 lbs? I don't think any cop would have any problems handling him.

And who would have thought 4 cops would have any problems with Rodney King?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If cops can't subdue and handcuff a 5'2 110-pound disabled kid without a taser, they should not be cops. I have no problem with tasers being used in certain situations, but what kind of fucking pussies do you have on your force if they couldn't subdue a kid that size?

And I'm not trashing the cops for what happened. Tasers rarely kill. I just don't see how they had trouble arresting a kid that size.

It doesn't matter what size the kid is if he had a gun.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You know what else hasn't been mentioned in any of the stories past the initial ones in April? The results of the toxicology tests that were being conducted with those being due back within a couple of weeks at the time.

Seems like those would be of some interest to the story one way or another.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

You can't always prevent someone from doing something. If somoone were in the car with you and decided to get out in a panic, could you stop them? Would you make the correct split-second decision during a traffic-stop? Jump out and chase him? Dive for him across the car? What do you do? Maybe the kid should just be tied down in the basement?

lets just drop it, my intention isn't to offend anyone or come across as unsympathetic about the kids mental well being.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If cops can't subdue and handcuff a 5'2 110-pound disabled kid without a taser, they should not be cops. I have no problem with tasers being used in certain situations, but what kind of fucking pussies do you have on your force if they couldn't subdue a kid that size?

And I'm not trashing the cops for what happened. Tasers rarely kill. I just don't see how they had trouble arresting a kid that size.

That brings up another way tasers make law enforcement safer. Sure, cops could definitly subdue almost anyone eventually, but very often the suspect is injured in that melee. A taser is quick and clean, and in general, harmless. The injury/death rate is very low, though can always be improved.

[lordscarlet]

Man, leave for 2 hours and look how many posts show up in a new thread!

1. I agree that "learning disabled" is deliberate language that does not say "mendically handicapped"
2. I have to stick up for Noop here. I was ready to be all firey toward him until I saw his second post. I think he was truly just trying to discuss tasers, not whether the police were justified here. On that note, I think until there is a better alternative, the choice is currently a taser or a gun. Feel free to find a study on which is more lethal.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It doesn't matter what size the kid is if he had a gun.

But the article doesn't make it seem like they thought he had a gun. They attempted to arrest him normally and he resisted. They tasered him as a last resort. I just don't know how a kid that size could succesfully resist arrest from police officers.

I'm not bashing the fact they tasered him as I think it's a suitable form of force when used in proper situations. I'm bashing the fact that these guys had trouble arresting a 5'2 110 pound disabled kid. What kind of physical shape are these cops in?

[Lathum]

Police always assume someone has a weapon.

Why do you think the first thing they have you do is stick your hands out the window or put them on your head.

[MikeVic]

Resisting arrest and he's 5'2", 110lbs... Does that mean he said no to being arrested and just ran, or did they have their hands on him and he somehow got away? I'd think being that small, how the hell does he get away?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Resisting arrest and he's 5'2", 110lbs... Does that mean he said no to being arrested and just ran, or did they have their hands on him and he somehow got away? I'd think being that small, how the hell does he get away?

Maurice Jones-Drew says hi.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Maurice Jones-Drew says hi.

That guy is built like a little tank.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Resisting arrest and he's 5'2", 110lbs... Does that mean he said no to being arrested and just ran, or did they have their hands on him and he somehow got away? I'd think being that small, how the hell does he get away?

The initial round of news stories indicated that he became combative & assaulted officers when they started to pat him down after he was caught inside the abandoned house.

[larrymcg421]

What's interesting is that in a recent SCOTUS case, Brendlin v. California, law endorcement tried to argue that passengers were free to walk away from a traffic stop. They made this argument because the search on the driver was ruled unconsitutional, but they still wanted to get the evidence collected from a passenger, saying it was a separate search because the person was free to walk away.

I'm glad the SCOTUS found that to be an assinine argument in their 9-0 decision, but it was pretty ironic to see law enforcement make that argument.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by molson

I think the focus should be on a "safer" taser. Non-lethal weapons are a great thing in law enforcement. There's always going to be risks, but there can always be technology advancements that limit the risk.

Making a safer taser would be one positive step. Another step would be not to use ANY weapon unless there is a good possibility of needing self defense or the defense of others. I am sorry, but if a skinny scared looking kid is running away from a non-felony stop, you don't use ANY weapon to make the situation more convenient for you as a police officer.

That's the biggest problem with police misusing the taser, they use it as a get out of the situation crutch. And sometimes, people die because of it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I am sorry, but if a skinny scared looking kid is running away from a non-felony stop, you don't use ANY weapon to make the situation more convenient for you as a police officer.

Bullshit. The act of attempting to elude puts an end to the need to play nice.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The initial round of news stories indicated that he became combative & assaulted officers when they started to pat him down after he was caught inside the abandoned house.

Dola, of course if that is the case, you gotta do what you gotta do to protect yourself. And those that research, construct, and put the non-lethal weapons in the hands of the officers need to make sure they are indeed non-lethal.

[stevew]

Tase first, ask questions later.

[MrBug708]

What is a "non-leathal" weapon? A slinky?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

to make sure they are indeed non-lethal.

But nothing is foolproof. People die while under anesthesia for routine dental work.

Better idea: don't run from the po-po, don't resist arrest, and you're a hell of a lot less likely to find yourself on the business end of a taser.

Cause of death in this instance isn't a taser, it's the misconduct of the deceased.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

What is a "non-leathal" weapon? A slinky?

Something that won't kill you if used.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Bullshit. The act of attempting to elude puts an end to the need to play nice.

I am not talking about playing nice, I am talking about playing smart. There is no reason to use weapons on a non-felony runaway, especially if the weapon can potentially cause serious injury or death. As someone who had his father beaten to the ground and arrested for resisting because he was having an insulin reaction (he didn't do anything wrong at first except look suspicious, because of the reaction), I know that things can often be not as they seem.


*We didn't sue the officers or anything, they apologized for not noticing his medic alert necklace. Just that shit happens, who knows if the next kid/adult that is tased and killed for running away from a non serious incident is going through something that can inhibit rational though.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Noop

Something that won't kill you if used.

Can y ou give me an example?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

from a non serious incident

Sorry, but once you attempt to evade, "non-serious" is over.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Can y ou give me an example?

A pie.

[RainMaker]

Whatever happened to those guns that shot non-lethal bullets?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I am not talking about playing nice, I am talking about playing smart. There is no reason to use weapons on a non-felony runaway, especially if the weapon can potentially cause serious injury or death.

You can't do that. It's not possible. too many cops have been killed "playing it safe"

As someone who had his father beaten to the ground and arrested for resisting because he was having an insulin reaction (he didn't do anything wrong at first except look suspicious, because of the reaction), I know that things can often be not as they seem.

Exactly. That simple non felon runaway could not be as it seems.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Noop

A pie.

Exactly

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Whatever happened to those guns that shot non-lethal bullets?

they killed a girl in boston when they shot her with them. I think she actually got hit in the eye which is what did it

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry, but once you attempt to evade, "non-serious" is over.

So I guess all of us that have loved ones that have mental disabilities or are prone to episodes of irrational behavior, just have to live in fear for the worst involving the people that are there to protect us. Maybe that is the necessary reality, but that is just a shame.