Donte Stallworth...Manslaughter?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Lathum

People elect public officials to make decisions for them but ultimatly the decision goes to the one person elected to handle that responsibility. If the elected official makes enogh poor decicions they may not be reelected, but that doesn't change the fact the final call was ultimatly theirs.

I'm not arguing that at all. I am saying if people don't like the fact celebrities get off easy then the judge shouldn't have a chance to be on the bench come next election. Does that make sense to you? Or no?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Noop

Actually I used Kobe as an example because he lost a lot of his endorsements and while he hasn't gotten them all back he has still be able to garner some back.

When I say public opinion doesn't matter I meant the person is free who cares what people think.

Well, then, next time, focus your response on that last, rather than just stating public opinion doesn't matter. It certainly does, and you yourself point that out.

[TCY Junkie]

I wanted to hear something about Donte being worthy of being put in a stall in between Rosie and Oprah so he could wish he was dead.

Thanks for making me read all this and making me think(gives me a headache).

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Noop

I'm not arguing that at all. I am saying if people don't like the fact celebrities get off easy then the judge shouldn't have a chance to be on the bench come next election. Does that make sense to you? Or no?

of course it does, but your original argument was the people decide is an athlete/ celeb get an eaiser sentence, and thats not true.

The people can decide to make a change based on the sentencing if they like, but thats after the fact.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm it's just a sidebar but ... where does Mickey Rourke really fit into that sequence? His losses seem to be more about industry opinion than public opinion. I'm not particularly aware that anybody in the public really gave a damn what Rourke drank, snorted, or otherwise. That was people in the business who didn't trust him enough to want to work with him.

But what drives industry opinion? Public "fascination" with Rourke's lifestyle choices led to the publicity, bad or good, that he received, and that publicity in part fueled the opinions of those who would have potentially worked with him. Heck, few industries are more sensitive to public opinion that Hollywood.

Do you think everyone in Hollywood, from the top, top executive, to the bit part actor to the best grip to the cinematographer all know each other, just because they're all in the movie business? Just as in other businesses, unless you have worked directly with that person, your opinion of that person is going to be some mishmash of what you have heard from personal testimonials within your business and what you have read/heard/seen in the published media.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Do you think everyone in Hollywood, from the top, top executive, to the bit part actor to the best grip to the cinematographer all know each other, just because they're all in the movie business? Just as in other businesses, unless you have worked directly with that person, your opinion of that person is going to be some mishmash of what you have heard from personal testimonials within your business and what you have read/heard/seen in the published media.

It's not that big an industry. The decision makers don't know everybody but it's not as though they operate in the same vacuum of relevant experience that Joe Sixpack does. No way I believe that some blurb in Variety carries as much influence as the six or less degrees of separation that the decision makers would have with Rourke. Those blurbs after all do come from somewhere and it ain't the general public, it's somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who knows the decision maker and the word gets around that way.

It's almost as though we're using the phrase "public opinion" in completely different ways.

[Chief Rum]

Maybe we are. But public opinion--actual public opinion, Joe Schmo--does impact movie revenue as well. People get disgusted by the actions and decisions of actors all the time, and they avoid that actor's movies because of it. How about Mel Gibson since his drunken rant against Jews? Between that and his polarizing Passion, he doesn't seem to be getting much work at all, and that's because people in the know know he'll be a harder sell now.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

How about Mel Gibson since his drunken rant against Jews? Between that and his polarizing Passion, he doesn't seem to be getting much work at all, and that's because people in the know know he'll be a harder sell now.

Who?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm it's just a sidebar but ... where does Mickey Rourke really fit into that sequence? His losses seem to be more about industry opinion than public opinion. I'm not particularly aware that anybody in the public really gave a damn what Rourke drank, snorted, or otherwise. That was people in the business who didn't trust him enough to want to work with him.

I'd agree with Jon on this. Theatre and film are a little different, but the people who make casting decisions are pretty few and they tend to be pretty well connected to each other. Drug/alcohol problems that effect rehearsals/performances are well known and most certainly do weigh heavily in the casting decision.

Someone like Rourke wasn't so special that you had to have him and only him, so his addiction problems would become a deciding factor in casting.

[Chief Rum]

Perhaps within the industry, Rourke is a bad example, but you can't say the public opinion of moviegoers doesn't matter, nor that they aren't considered in the decisions of moviemakers. I already suggested a pretty obvious case in Mel Gibson. How about all the people who swore off Tom Cruise movies because of how nutty he was getting with the Scientology thing and with getting married to what's her crazy eye? Lindsey Lohan's bad pub is combining with how difficult she is to work with to make her almost uncastable.

Point is, public opinion does matter, and does have a very real, economic impact on people. So to ignore it in this discussion is silly. Heck, Rourke wasn't even the strongest example I brought up in no less than four such examples to Noop's original point.

[Lathum]

DUI manslaughter

Cleveland Browns' Donte Stallworth charged with DUI manslaughter - ESPN

MIAMI -- Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte Stallworth was charged Wednesday with killing a pedestrian last month while driving drunk after a night out at a swank South Beach nightspot.

An arrest warrant charging Stallworth, 28, with DUI manslaughter was filed in the March 14 accident that killed 59-year-old Mario Reyes. If convicted, Stallworth would face as many as 15 years in prison.

Stallworth's blood-alcohol level after the crash was .126, well above Florida's legal limit of .08, according to results of a blood test. Stallworth also will be charged with DUI, which carries a possible six-month sentence plus fines and community service for first offenders.

Stallworth
Stallworth

"Whenever a deadly accident occurs and a driver is impaired, families suffer," Miami-Dade state attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle said in a statement. "I can only repeat this message over and over: If you are going to drink, don't drive."

Stallworth, who is expected to surrender in court Thursday, released a statement last month saying he was "grief-stricken" over the accident. Prosecutors said they will ask that he be released on $200,000 bail.

Stallworth will be prohibited from driving while on bail and not allowed to drink alcohol, according to court documents. He also must observe a 12 a.m. to 6 a.m. curfew and must submit to random alcohol and drug testing through the NFL's substance abuse program.

A Miami Beach police report said that Reyes was not in a crosswalk on busy MacArthur Causeway when he was struck by the black 2005 Bentley luxury car driven by Stallworth. The construction crane operator was trying to catch a bus home after finishing his shift about 7:15 a.m.

The report also quoted Stallworth as saying he flashed his lights at Reyes in an attempted warning and that Stallworth was driving about 50 mph in a 40-mph zone.

An additional police affidavit filed Wednesday said that on the morning of the crash, Stallworth was drinking at a club in the posh Fountainebleau hotel on South Beach. He left to go to a nearby home -- it's not clear if the home was one of Stallworth's three Miami-area properties -- hen headed out to the causeway where Reyes was struck.

"I hit the man lying in the road," Stallworth told officers arriving to investigate the crash, according to the affidavit. One officer smelled alcohol on Stallworth's breath and said that his eyes appeared bloodshot and watery.

Stallworth's attorney Christopher Lyons did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.

Stallworth signed a seven-year, $35 million contract with the Browns before last season but was injured much of the year. He previously played for New England, Philadelphia and New Orleans.

[Sgran]

"The report also quoted Stallworth as saying he flashed his lights at Reyes in an attempted warning and that Stallworth was driving about 50 mph in a 40-mph zone."

Jesus, he saw the guy, flashed his lights and ran him over.

[flounder]

Stallworth pleads to manslaughter and gets 30 days in jail. What a joke.

Lester Munson on ESPN, "This is a good outcome for the victim." I'm sure he's doing cartwheels right now, Lester.

[MikeVic]

Woooow. What the fuck. 30 days?!?! Shouldn't this be years of jail time??

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I don't understand how someone can show negligence leading to someone else's death and only get 30 days in jail.

[DeToxRox]

And let's see the outcry when Stallworth is back playing in the NFL, I bet it won't even reach Mike Vick levels. How sad.

Stallworth and Leonard Little need to both eat the barrel of a gun.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Stallworth and Leonard Little need to both eat the barrel of a gun.

And how. I hope Goodell steps in and bans Stallworth for life.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Donte' Stallworth gets 1 month in jail, 2 years house arrest in DUI death - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

Prosecutors filed formal charges June 4, and Stallworth had pleaded not guilty. The unusually speedy end to the case came at the urging of the Reyes family, which wanted to resolve the matter to avoid further emotional trauma.

[Lathum]

Just goes to show what money can buy.

Any one of us would be doing 3-5 easy. 30 days is disgusting.

I don't think he plays in the NFL this year, it will be interesting to see his ruling in comparison to Burress' ruling from the league.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Donte' Stallworth gets 1 month in jail, 2 years house arrest in DUI death - Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com

I suppose I can understand where they're coming from, but as a society isn't it our responsibility to punish him regardless of their wishes?

[Bad-example]

Stallworth also reached a confidential financial settlement with the Reyes' family.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I suppose I can understand where they're coming from, but as a society isn't it our responsibility to punish him regardless of their wishes?

Well it seems to me they're probably coming from the school of "wanna get paid" (in addition to the plea agreement there was also an undisclosed settlement).

But what isn't mentioned anywhere yet is how much the plea was affected by the confidence of prosecutors that they could get a conviction. Last I've seen at least there were no eyewitnesses to the crash & the victim wasn't in the crosswalk (at least I haven't seen where that was disputed/disproven). This might well have been a case where the prosecutors weren't particularly confident they were going to get a conviction of any kind so they took what was there to be had for sure instead of rolling the dice.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

And let's see the outcry when Stallworth is back playing in the NFL, I bet it won't even reach Mike Vick levels. How sad.

Stallworth and Leonard Little need to both eat the barrel of a gun.

I think the NFL gets a pass on Little in comparison to Vick because it was years ago and under another administration, but Stallworth will be a real test.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

And let's see the outcry when Stallworth is back playing in the NFL, I bet it won't even reach Mike Vick levels. How sad.

Stallworth and Leonard Little need to both eat the barrel of a gun.

This will get interesting to me.

The NFL has been able to hide behind "that was a different regime" with the Leonard Little stuff.

This is a current NFL player who under this NFL regime killed a human being.

I'm one of the heavier Vick haters on this message board - and have a "soft spot" for Stallworth because I'm a UT fan - Stallworth needs to be dealt with severely by the NFL.

If this was murder I'd say the punishment needs to be far more harsh than Vick's. It is manslaughter, which is certainly different than murder - so I'd say his punishment should be at least as harsh as Vick's, if not more harsh.

[stevew]

I think the small amount of jail time is silly. But it was going to be hard to prove that him being drunk was the main reason the accident happened.

[wade moore]

Hmm...

From www.profootballtalk.com:

Not long ago, I told Peter King and Bob Papa of Sirius NFL Radio that, in the full-blown Internet age, Rams defensive end Leonard Little wouldn’t have quietly gotten 30 days in jail for killing Susan Gutweiler while driving drunk.
And, so, Browns receiver Donte’ Stallworth gets 30 days in jail for killing Mario Reyes while allegedly driving drunk.
Stallworth pleaded guilty to DUI manslaughter, which carries a four-year mandatory minimum sentence for a “conviction.” The presiding judge apparently agreed that a guilty plea isn’t a “conviction.”
Stallworth also will be placed on 10 years of probation, and he must perform 1,000 hours of community service.
The key to this one, however, surely was the money he’s paying to the victim’s family. Our guess is that it falls somewhere between $2 million and $5 million. And that it’s closer to $5 million.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well it seems to me they're probably coming from the school of "wanna get paid" (in addition to the plea agreement there was also an undisclosed settlement).

This sounds awful that they'd sell out their dead relative, but being a practical rather than sentimental guy, I might make the same decision.

You can either push for the driver to go to jail, which benefits you in no tangible way, or you can get a decent amount of cash, which is presumably needed to replace your family's lost income.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Samdari

This sounds awful that they'd sell out their dead relative, but being a practical rather than sentimental guy, I might make the same decision.

You can either push for the driver to go to jail, which benefits you in no tangible way, or you can get a decent amount of cash, which is presumably needed to replace your family's lost income.

yep, it's not like you can bring them back.

If I was killed by a drunk driver I would rather have my family get a nice payday then see the driver go to jail.

[Kodos]

I would rather see the offender go to jail for a long time.

[Samdari]

Maybe have the family get $350k, then spend $50k on it for a nice, clean, professional hit.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I would rather see the offender go to jail for a long time.

Then have your family set for life?

You're gone regardless.

[Lathum]

dola- by nice payday I mean in the 3-5 million range at a minimum.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If this was murder I'd say the punishment needs to be far more harsh than Vick's. It is manslaughter, which is certainly different than murder - so I'd say his punishment should be at least as harsh as Vick's, if not more harsh.

Has the NFL handed out punishment to Vick yet?
Last I heard it was pending his release from jail.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

It is manslaughter, which is certainly different than murder - so I'd say his punishment should be at least as harsh as Vick's, if not more harsh.

I disagree, largely for the reasons I heard on one of the national sports talk shows a few minutes ago (might have been Rome, not sure, I was just button pushing in the car).

What Vick did was intentional, premeditated, and shows a complete lack of humanity. What Stallworth was both stupid & criminal but was not undertaken with any malice, not only was it an accident (granted set in motion by his lousy judgement) but there were also mitigating circumstances that has the victim at least sharing the responsibility for the outcome (by jaywalking).

No way that I see the general public, or even the NFL fan subset, seeing what Stallworth did as being nearly as heinous as what Vick did.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I disagree, largely for the reasons I heard on one of the national sports talk shows a few minutes ago (might have been Rome, not sure, I was just button pushing in the car).

What Vick did was intentional, premeditated, and shows a complete lack of humanity. What Stallworth was both stupid & criminal but was not undertaken with any malice, not only was it an accident (granted set in motion by his lousy judgement) but there were also mitigating circumstances that has the victim at least sharing the responsibility for the outcome (by jaywalking).

No way that I see the general public, or even the NFL fan subset, seeing what Stallworth did as being nearly as heinous as what Vick did.

Oddly I figured you'd be one of the first to jump on the idea that this is way worse than what Vick did.

I'm actually basically with you. That's why I say about the same as Vick trying to level off some sort of balance between human/animal and accident/intentional.

Hard to balance it out, that's just my swag. But I certainly think this is way different than murder for the very reasons you state.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's ridiculous!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Incidentally, at least according to whatever sportstalker I caught earlier, the average sentence for the same conviction in Florida is between 2 & 3 years.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Then have your family set for life?

You're gone regardless.

The money would be tainted to me. I couldn't enjoy it knowing that I cashed in on a family member's death, rather than pursuing the maximum punishment available for the person who killed them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Oddly I figured you'd be one of the first to jump on the idea that this is way worse than what Vick did.

Not at all, I don't even think it's remotely in the same ballpark frankly.

Must be because I'm a raci ... oh, wait, Stallworth isn't a white guy?
That must not be it then

To be honest, I'm surprised he's going to do a day in jail. Given the circumstances of the incident, I really thought this would end up with a straight DUI plea at most.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not at all, I don't even think it's remotely in the same ballpark frankly.

Must be because I'm a raci ... oh, wait, Stallworth isn't a white guy?
That must not be it then

To be honest, I'm surprised he's going to do a day in jail. Given the circumstances of the incident, I really thought this would end up with a straight DUI plea at most.

Nah - my read was that you would put the death of an animal (esp a vicious animal) at a far lower tragedy than a human death - enough that the intentions would not even be a factor.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Nah - my read was that you would put the death of an animal (esp a vicious animal) at a far lower tragedy than a human death

You must have skipped over my posts in the Vick thread. What he did should be a capital crime afaic.

And I don't even like dogs ... but anybody that intentionally brutalizes one ought to be put down.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You must have skipped over my posts in the Vick thread. What he did should be a capital crime afaic.

And I don't even like dogs ... but anybody that intentionally brutalizes one ought to be put down.

Maybe Vick was just working toward your goal of phasing out pit bulls.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You must have skipped over my posts in the Vick thread. What he did should be a capital crime afaic.

And I don't even like dogs ... but anybody that intentionally brutalizes one ought to be put down.

Ah... that thread all started to run together after awhile.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Maybe have the family get $350k, then spend $50k on it for a nice, clean, professional hit.

Probably my sentiments depending on the member of the family. If it was me, I'd say take the money and provide for my daughter the rest of her life.

If it was my daughter, no amount of money would stop me from wanting to put a bullet in his head.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I disagree, largely for the reasons I heard on one of the national sports talk shows a few minutes ago (might have been Rome, not sure, I was just button pushing in the car).

What Vick did was intentional, premeditated, and shows a complete lack of humanity. What Stallworth was both stupid & criminal but was not undertaken with any malice, not only was it an accident (granted set in motion by his lousy judgement) but there were also mitigating circumstances that has the victim at least sharing the responsibility for the outcome (by jaywalking).

No way that I see the general public, or even the NFL fan subset, seeing what Stallworth did as being nearly as heinous as what Vick did.

It's also true that there's a lot more people in American than can relate to making a mistake with a DUI than torturing animals.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Tell that to Kobe's bank account, which received the negative impact of his lack of endorsement deals for several years, including some prime earning years. Tell that to Michael Phelps, who lost a ton of money with this marijuana thing. Tell that to Mickey Rourke, who's drinking/drug issues basically led him to missing out on being an actual leading man in Hollywood for the 20 best years for him to have done so. Tell that to Manny, who's rumored lack of effort in Boston to get traded resulted in a significantly less quality contract signed late, late in this offseason.

Public opinion does matter. There are whole industries based on that.

Poor Kobe, he had to get by on his NBA salary. How did he ever make it...

[Maple Leafs]

Let's try to have some perspective. He killed one guy. That's it. It's not like he did something really terrible, like accidentally shoot himself at a night club.

[Samdari]

The two years of house arrest could potentially be interesting.

During that period he won't be physically incacerated, but in a sense is technically incarcerated. Goodell could really say here, you're not eligible to play in the NFL while you are serving a sentence.

[lordscarlet]

Is there any timeline on a decision by the NFL?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I work with a guy who is from the area where the accident happened and knows it well. He said that if you try and cross where the guy did this is a very likely result.

30 day is a bit light, but considering he did take responsibility for it right away and he will have another 10 years of legal issues from the house arrest and probation I don't think he'll be a menace to society. I bet alcohol consumption is a stipulation in this deal. Locking him up for 15 years would serve no purpose, especially when they could use that prison bed for a child rapist or somebody else that would otherwise be released a bit early.