![]() |
![]() |
#51 | ||
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
|
Former Reagan official and National Security Council staffer Howard Teicher has described a less than hateful relationship between the Reagan administration and Saddam Hussein. In 1995, Teicher offered an affidavit in the Teledyne case, a legal sideshow to a larger scandal known as "Iraqgate." According to Teicher, he and Donald Rumsfeld traveled to Iraq to make sure the Iraqi dictator received what he needed in order to win the Iran-Iraq war--or if not win at least make sure there was a draw. "CIA Director Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles," Teicher swore in the affidavit.
http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo0919.html
__________________
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#52 | |
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
|
Quote:
I could go on and on. check out some books: Spider's Web: The Secret History of How the White House Illegally Armed Iraq Beyond the Storm: A Gulf Crisis Reader |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#53 |
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
|
It's an absolute fact that Reagen/Bush either directly aided Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war (advice, satellite surveillance), gave them biological weapons (CDC records prove this), and cleared the way for many US companies to sell them shitloads of war-making tools.
I'd be satisfied with leaving this at my brass knuckles analogy. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#54 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
|
Quote:
This was from today. Just because someone was in a position of power doesn't mean they are telling the truth or even have a clue what is going on. Don't believe everything you hear. Because I feel this will likely end up in a circular argument with both of us set in our positions, I have another question for you. Does any of this matter? Even if we armed Saddam does that preclude us from taking him out, or even have an effect on the decision? |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#55 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
|
Quote:
You probably should check your facts. With minimal searching... http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1991/091391.htm http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Dec29.html http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2000/msg00776.html Of course the CIA denied a lot of the facts. Whom do I believe? Koppel and the rest of the world or Ollie North? Last edited by panerd : 03-27-2003 at 08:55 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#56 | |
Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
|
Quote:
to me, yes. I think the public is largely unaware of our style of foreign policy, (which to me seems to be "revisionist history"). I basically fall in line with the issue QuikSand raised. This war shouldn't be justified as a humanitarian cause, because that's totally inconsistent with the rest of our foreign policy. There are equal (and worse) atrocities being committed to citizens of other nations throughout the world, but we won't do anything about them. I think even those who support the war should question our motives for being there. When will the cycle of putting/keeping who we want in power end? It's not as if we're going to be running Iraq full-time when all is said and done, so is this ultimately worth it? edited: for grammatical purposes
__________________
Last edited by cthomer5000 : 03-27-2003 at 09:40 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#57 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
|
My two quotes on the issue of arming Iraq.
Quote:
Panerd, I see nothing in your first two links that refutes what I have said. The only evidence given extending beyonf what I said in the two quotes above was that we sold them insecticides. The other mentions of connections extending farther than what I have already acknowledged are hearsay in the case of the Koppel transcript and in the WaPo article a quick line stating that we gave them chemical and biological weapons. When faced with Koppel's word vs. the CIA's, I'm going to believe neither and instead go with facts and evidence shown elsewhere. I didn't read the whole third link, but it seemed similar to the WaPo article in making accusations and not backing them up. We are getting into a circular argument here. If the analogy is that the guy down the street is using the brass knuckles we gave him to beat up a kid, then you are wrong. But if you are saying that he is cutting the kid up with a French knife, and has an Russian AK-47 in his hand, then yeah, he is wearing our brass knuckles. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#58 | ||||
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
|
Quote:
I am certainly aware of much of what we have done in the past, and there are certainly things I regret my country has done. Taking all the bad and good things we did as a country, I think the world is undoubtedly a better place due to American influence in the 20th century. You say that 'this war shouldn't be justified as a humanitarian cause because that is inconsistent with the rest of our foreign policy'. What does the rest of our foreign policy have to do with it? If a robber robs someone and then after he gets away he sees a beggar on the street and gives him some change should he not do so because it is inconsistent? Helping someone/some country out can be good even if the rest of what they do is bad. Quote:
I think we should and I wish we would. Quote:
Hopefully not until the people in power are committed to freedom, democracy and doing what is best for the people. Quote:
I hope so. Last edited by BishopMVP : 03-27-2003 at 10:02 PM. |
||||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#59 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
|
Watching the images of the Iraqis throwing off the symbolic mantle of their oppression today made me again think it.
Shame on you, Mister Bush. Shame on you, Mister Clinton.
__________________
The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#60 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
|
If Spain turns around tommorrow and starts using Nuclear weapons against Morrocco and it's own people, should we consider our friendship of yesterday to have been hypocritical and sly?
Give me a break, people. We were made the sworn enemy of Iran in 1979. It's written in their frickin Islamic laws. When the relatively unknown Iraqi regime declared war on them, why not help them? The unknown Iraq regime was a sight better than the hateful Iranian one. Nobody and I mean nobody questioned these decisions in 1979 and 1980. Sometimes, things in this world go wrong. Shit happens. Get over it and quit bitching about how evil the United States of America is. Why? Because it's just flat out wrong to think that. You better thank the good Lord that you live here and not in Iraq or Iran or any other place who hasn't embrassed democracy. The USA isn't utopia, but it's about infinately better than what these dictators and kings provide their people. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#61 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Moorhead
|
Great post Dutch!!!!
![]() ![]() ![]()
__________________
I had something. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#62 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Join Date: Oct 2002
|
Great post, Dutch. I have always felt that such anti-American folks just do not believe that having more freedoms and liberties (as oppose to less) and a government that can reasonable assure such things is any better than a government under dictatorship, tyrant monarchy, socialism or communism. That has been the one thing that really bugs me about the hippie protestors of the 60s to the extremist left-wing policies since then and to some of the protestors nowdays. Too may folks, I think, take their freedoms and liberties for granted and have no clue what it is live, work and play where there are much less freedoms and liberties.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
|
|