What can the Big Ten do to become relevant in football again?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

Pretty much, but I think it was Oregon State losing that last game that hurt the Big Ten's image. If they win then Oregon State goes to the rose against PSU, USC gets the at large bid over Ohio State resulting in OSU going to the Capital One agaist Georgia, and so on... If that happens they probably win most of their bowl games.

However, that really does nothing to answer the original question . Michigan just has to return to a power, and I believe they are headed that way(but Im biased). Then someone else has to step up and challenge OSU, PSU and UM for the title once in a while. Also, adding another team helps not just for being able to have a championship game, but for shortening the layoff between the bowl games.

In addition, Penn state probably pastes Oregon State in the Rose Bowl, giving the B10 a quality BCS win for the first time in quite a few years.

[DeToxRox]

Honestly, what's the Big 10's last "big" bowl win?

OSU over Notre Dame? Not much of a feat considering how awful Weis has been.

One could say Michigan beating Florida in the Cap One last year was the biggest bowl win in a long, long time.

Not being a homer, just pointing out how bleak things have been

[Buccaneer]

Big 10 was horrendously boring to watch when I was a kid and they are still boring. Become like the Big 12, SEC or the MWC and they will not be boring to watch.

[bignej]

Big Ten Apparently Not As Slow As We Southerners Think | MrSEC.com

The last 4 years of SEC vs. Big10. Its just blown way out of proportion due to OSUs none success vs the SEC in the NC. Southern speed!
2007-2008
Outback Bowl - Tennessee 21, Wisconsin 17
Capital One Bowl - Michigan 41, Florida 35
BCS Title Game - LSU 38, Ohio State 24

2006-2007
Outback Bowl - Penn State 20, Tennessee 10
Capital One Bowl - Wisconsin 17, Arkansas 14
BCS Title Game - Florida 41, Ohio State 14

2005-2006
Outback Bowl - Florida 31, Iowa 24
Capital One Bowl - Wisconsin 24, Auburn 10

2004-2005
Music City Bowl - Minnesota 20, Alabama 16
Outback Bowl - Georgia 24, Wisconsin 21
Capital One Bowl - Iowa 30, LSU 25

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Big 10 was horrendously boring to watch when I was a kid and they are still boring. Become like the Big 12, SEC or the MWC and they will not be boring to watch.

I think this is a common misconception based on an old reputation. I mean come on, the majority of the Big Ten runs the spread. This isnt a pound the ball up the middle for 3 yards conference anymore. Michigan, PSU, NW, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, even OSU to a certain extent, all run a version of the spread. OSU has been among the most talented teams in the country for the last few years, they have just come up short recently in their bowls. The whole conference gets killed because of it.

I also think the quality of coaching in the Big Ten is down right now. That, IMO, just goes in cycles.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Honestly, what's the Big 10's last "big" bowl win?

OSU over Notre Dame? Not much of a feat considering how awful Weis has been.

One could say Michigan beating Florida in the Cap One last year was the biggest bowl win in a long, long time.

Not being a homer, just pointing out how bleak things have been

The last time the Big 10 beat a top 10 team in a BCS game was in 2004 (#5 Ohio State over #10 Kansas State). The last "really" good bowl win was probably OSU's win over Miami for the title in 2003.

[MylesKnight]

Well in terms of BCS Games....... Wow, we're halfway into the 1st Quarter in the Fiesta Bowl and the Big Ten is actually in the ballgame (3-0 OSU thus far).

[RainMaker]

There is nothing that can be done. Going to college and playing football in 10 degree weather is just not as alluring as playing down South. The weather is nicer, the girls are prettier, and college football is more important down there. They kick out better recruits per capita.

The Big 10 never was a full fledged powerhouse. They had great teams at the top, but the middle and bottom were not good. Over the years they've had more parity which has hurt the talent levels of those perennial powerhouses.

But to become relevant again, they need an overhaul of coaches in the conference. Rodriguez is a step in the right direction at Michigan, but there are a lot of other schools who are playing a system of football a decade behind the times. The schools need to recruit better down South as well as sure up the talent that is bolting down South. This means having the teams create an allure within the state. There was once a time where a top recruit from Michigan always went to Michigan. Now they are bolting down South.

The Conference needs to consider expanding to one more team and setting up a conference title game. A game that can rotate around the Midwest and draw some media exposure.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by bignej

Big Ten Apparently Not As Slow As We Southerners Think | MrSEC.com

The last 4 years of SEC vs. Big10. Its just blown way out of proportion due to OSUs none success vs the SEC in the NC. Southern speed!
2007-2008
Outback Bowl - Tennessee 21, Wisconsin 17
Capital One Bowl - Michigan 41, Florida 35
BCS Title Game - LSU 38, Ohio State 24

2006-2007
Outback Bowl - Penn State 20, Tennessee 10
Capital One Bowl - Wisconsin 17, Arkansas 14
BCS Title Game - Florida 41, Ohio State 14

2005-2006
Outback Bowl - Florida 31, Iowa 24
Capital One Bowl - Wisconsin 24, Auburn 10

2004-2005
Music City Bowl - Minnesota 20, Alabama 16
Outback Bowl - Georgia 24, Wisconsin 21
Capital One Bowl - Iowa 30, LSU 25

Yup. Pretty much my thought.

I think these "Big 10 is dead" thoughts are a bit premature.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bignej

Big Ten Apparently Not As Slow As We Southerners Think | MrSEC.com

The last 4 years of SEC vs. Big10. Its just blown way out of proportion due to OSUs none success vs the SEC in the NC. Southern speed!
2007-2008
Outback Bowl - Tennessee 21, Wisconsin 17
Capital One Bowl - Michigan 41, Florida 35
BCS Title Game - LSU 38, Ohio State 24

2006-2007
Outback Bowl - Penn State 20, Tennessee 10
Capital One Bowl - Wisconsin 17, Arkansas 14
BCS Title Game - Florida 41, Ohio State 14

2005-2006
Outback Bowl - Florida 31, Iowa 24
Capital One Bowl - Wisconsin 24, Auburn 10

2004-2005
Music City Bowl - Minnesota 20, Alabama 16
Outback Bowl - Georgia 24, Wisconsin 21
Capital One Bowl - Iowa 30, LSU 25

I think it's dead in the National Championship picture. The middle of their pack can hang with the middle of the pack of other conferences. They can't build powerhouses that can win championships though.

[Swaggs]

I don't see the push for a conference championship in the Big 10.

Is adding Rutgers or Syracuse or Pitt or Missouri really going to raise the profile of the conference? They would just be adding another middle-tier team to the current pack of middle-tier teams that fall well below the Ohio State/Michigan/Penn State trio just to have a conference championship.

I would assume the ideal hope for a conference championship would be to have a potential Michigan-Ohio State match up, but would it really add anything to the league for Michigan and Ohio State to play each other twice, in two weeks, in bad weather? If anything, it would cheapen one of the best rivalries in sports. And, if those two teams somehow slip up, does anyone outside of B10 country care to see Iowa/Wisconsin/Michigan State play a late season game?

[RedKingGold]

Only because of perception.

If recruiting classes are to be believed, Ohio State should and will have enough speed to keep up with anyone by next year.

Hey, isn't that Ohio State defense doing well coralling one of the BEST OFFENSES EVER tonight?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Hey, isn't that Ohio State defense doing well coralling one of the BEST OFFENSES EVER tonight?

Now you are just being silly. It has been a very good offense this season, but I've never heard it called one of the best college offenses ever.

In any event, Texas has been a very strong second half team all season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Is adding Rutgers or Syracuse or Pitt or Missouri really going to raise the profile of the conference?

The theory would seem to be that having a showcase game at the same time nearly everyone else is having one might help project them as being on the same tier. Take USC's recent success away from the Pac-10 and I think you might be hearing the same thing about the situation they'd be facing.

In the B10's case, it might help elevate one more team to at least the bottom of the first tier or enhance the perception of the second tier, so it doesn't seem all that wild an idea.

Texas Tech, Missouri or even Oklahoma State come to my mind as teams that really need to have a couple of back to back high profile moments (and then of course avoid laying a bowl egg ala TT this season) in order to maybe separate themselves as a clear #3. Doing so not only helps the conference image overall but also could help a program move more permanently into that next level.

Right now if Illinois or Indiana or whomever were to happen to win the B10 there's a question of how many people saw it, how "sticky" it was in people's minds. And without that showcase event involving the eventual champion, it's harder to get that stickiness.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think it's dead in the National Championship picture. The middle of their pack can hang with the middle of the pack of other conferences. They can't build powerhouses that can win championships though.

Also, you have cried on the boards about the BCS as a flawed system.

Are you really going to use a system that awards teams a berth in the National Championship game based on perception as evidence of the Big Ten's struggle?

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Only because of perception.

If recruiting classes are to be believed, Ohio State should and will have enough speed to keep up with anyone by next year.

Hey, isn't that Ohio State defense doing well coralling one of the BEST OFFENSES EVER tonight?

The speed thing is completely bogus. Now you may be able to say that the average player from the south may react faster since they play football year round, but that is different then saying they need more speed.

The top schools all recruit nationally, plus Ohio isnt exactly lacking high school football talent.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by cartman

Now you are just being silly. It has been a very good offense this season, but I've never heard it called one of the best college offenses ever.

In any event, Texas has been a very strong second half team all season.

Was being sarcastic, but there has been a public sentiment that these Big 12 offense have been awesome. Specifically, it was wondered how Ohio State's "lack of speed" would be able to contain McCoy and the high-powered Texas offense.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by cartman

Now you are just being silly. It has been a very good offense this season, but I've never heard it called one of the best college offenses ever. .

The 1994 Penn State Offense was the best offense ever.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

The speed thing is completely bogus. Now you may be able to say that the average player from the south may react faster since they play football year round, but that is different then saying they need more speed.

The top schools all recruit nationally, plus Ohio isnt exactly lacking high school football talent.

I only use the term "speed" because that's what many claim Ohio State lacks.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against, honestly. I'm saying that Ohio State can stay on the field with many teams this season.

[Dr. Sak]

Beanie Wells being banged up for the better part of this season really hampered tOSU. They needed his running game to keep the pressure off of Pryor. But what really surprised me is how bad their offensive line has looked in big games. I remember watching them play Penn State last season and they were blowing them off the ball 2 or 3 yards. Then this year with a good core back, they are having trouble blocking everyone.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I only use the term "speed" because that's what many claim Ohio State lacks.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against, honestly. I'm saying that Ohio State can stay on the field with many teams this season.

I believe he's agreeing with you and your prior post .

[Rich1033]

Yep, not really arguing anything. Just discussing and giving my thoughts on the perception of the Big Ten as I watch the game.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I don't see the push for a conference championship in the Big 10.

Is adding Rutgers or Syracuse or Pitt or Missouri really going to raise the profile of the conference? They would just be adding another middle-tier team to the current pack of middle-tier teams that fall well below the Ohio State/Michigan/Penn State trio just to have a conference championship.

I would assume the ideal hope for a conference championship would be to have a potential Michigan-Ohio State match up, but would it really add anything to the league for Michigan and Ohio State to play each other twice, in two weeks, in bad weather? If anything, it would cheapen one of the best rivalries in sports. And, if those two teams somehow slip up, does anyone outside of B10 country care to see Iowa/Wisconsin/Michigan State play a late season game?

The no brainer is to add Notre Dame.

[Arles]

Why doesn't the BCS just say that Notre Dame has two choices: Either join a major conference (ie, big 10) or be treated like the other non-BCS (Ball State, TCU, Boise, Utah). I bet that would make ND atleast think about joining the big 10. I always thought it was a joke that ND gets to keep all the cash for BCS games while the other schools have it go to their conference (where it is split). Then, the Big 10 can have two conferences, a champ game and be just like the other main conferences.

[Dr. Sak]

I swear they just changed it so that ND would only get a portion of the money, not all of it. But I cant find a reference.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I swear they just changed it so that ND would only get a portion of the money, not all of it. But I cant find a reference.

Changes in BCS made : Fanblogs College Football Blog

Notre Dame will now receive an automatic BCS bid if they place in the top 8 in the BCS poll. The Irish will be considered for a bid if they finish in the top 12. Notre Dame will also now received $4.5 million for playing in a BCS game and $1 million when they don't. This is a change from the previous arrangement in which the Irish received $14 million for a BCS appearance and no cash otherwise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Arles

Why doesn't the BCS just say that Notre Dame has two choices: Either join a major conference (ie, big 10) or be treated like the other non-BCS (Ball State, TCU, Boise, Utah). I bet that would make ND atleast think about joining the big 10. I always thought it was a joke that ND gets to keep all the cash for BCS games while the other schools have it go to their conference (where it is split). Then, the Big 10 can have two conferences, a champ game and be just like the other main conferences.

Unless they've renegotiated since 2005, the earliest that could be done is after the conclusion of the 2009 season.
Notre Dame Reclassified by BCS - Los Angeles Times

Although in the grand scheme of things, I'm not sure the $1m that they get in years they don't make the BCS is really that big a deal, especially since their bowl money goes back into the general school fund (annual budget about $650 million) and not the athletic department.

The $5m or so for the years they do make it, well that's probably a slightly different ball of wax but even then, I don't think their desire to remain in the BCS is influenced as much by money as it is by ego. And if the BCS doesn't agree to a contract with them, they run a huge risk of being rendered irrelevant if by some chance the Irish find themselves in the top 2 as a free agent.

[Galaxy]

Are bowl games really the best judgement when it comes to teams and conferences?

You have at least a whole month off from playing any games and bowl matchups don't always slot the right teams to the right bowls.

[tarcone]

Add Notre Dame
Add a championship game.
Fix the scheduling (Iowa missed Michigana nd Ohio St. this season).
Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with the Big 10. The only problem is the jealousy of other conferences fans. The perception does not meet the reality.

[tarcone]

And Iowa would not have moved "down" had OSU not gotten the Fiesta Bowl.
The Outback had Iowa as their #1 target all along. MSU would have dropped down and played Missouri.

[Young Drachma]

If I'm Notre Dame, no way I join a conference. Their current deal is sweet and I can't see those folks playing hardball with them anytime in the next decade. Maybe, but I'm just not seeing it.

[ISiddiqui]

I guess in answer to the question posed in the OP, playing games like the one Ohio State just played may help .

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If I'm Notre Dame, no way I join a conference. Their current deal is sweet and I can't see those folks playing hardball with them anytime in the next decade. Maybe, but I'm just not seeing it.

As it stands right now, I think you are right. Although, any TV network looking at resigning or setting up a new deal with them, has to realize nobody watches their games anymore. ND is pretty much second tier now.

The BCS has reduced the payout to ND and I bet that scenario will just continue to get worse. When the current TV deal is up, it will then be the perfect window of opportunity for ND to look at joining a conference and that really should be the Big 10.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Big 10 was horrendously boring to watch when I was a kid and they are still boring. Become like the Big 12, SEC or the MWC and they will not be boring to watch.

How many SEC games outside of FLA or GA have you watched? If anything, many of the SEC teams are three yards and a cloud of dust. Also, until the last few years, the Big 12 wasn't much different.

MWC games are fun to watch though.

[Grammaticus]

Actually a lot of the Vandy, Kentucky and Ole Miss games were a lot of fun to watch. Which is a change from the norm. Auburn and Tennesee were painful to watch.

But, then again I think a lot of the Big Ten games were fun to watch too.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If I'm Notre Dame, no way I join a conference. Their current deal is sweet and I can't see those folks playing hardball with them anytime in the next decade. Maybe, but I'm just not seeing it.

I think it depends on the next couple years. If they continue to punch out 5-7 win seasons, they may be forced to join up with a conference. Their ratings on NBC have been horrific, and there soon becomes a time when that deal could be gone. If they lose the TV contract, they are nothing, and lose a lot of their scheduling ability.

They almost play half a Big 10 schedule as it is (Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State). This would also give them a nice regional matchup against Indiana every year. The conference would be able to add a title game and a prime spot on the networks for it. The Big 10 gives them a lot of quality bowl options as well. They will also be able to give more leverage to the Big 10 Network for adoption by the cable companies.

[Grammaticus]

I think NBC's draw to Notre Dame is that ND was the #1 brand in college sports. Not sure if that is still the case and as pointed out it is dropping with ongoing poor performance.

[Swaggs]

I'm pretty sure that Notre Dame just re-upped with Notre Dame through 2015 this year, so I wouldn't hold your breath on that. They sell out every home and road game that they play and are a huge bowl drawl (both attendance-wise and ratings-wise).

I'd love to see them in the Big East, but, right now, there is zero incentive for them to join a conference.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm pretty sure that Notre Dame just re-upped with Notre Dame through 2015 this year, so I wouldn't hold your breath on that.

(Nov. 22). Notre Dame, NBC extend football contract through 2015 :: Partnership between the University and network to reach 25 years
June 19, 2008

The University of Notre Dame and NBC Sports have reached agreement on a new five-year contract giving NBC the rights to televise Irish home football games from 2011 to 2015, extending the partnership between the University and network to 25 years.

A joint announcement of the extension was made Thursday (June 19) by NBC Sports & Olympics chairman Dick Ebersol, NBC Sports president Ken Schanzer and Notre Dame's president, Rev. John I. Jenkins, C.S.C.

"We are absolutely thrilled to be continuing our landmark agreement with Notre Dame, the most storied brand in college sports," Ebersol said. "This new deal, which will bring us to 25 years as partners, is great tribute to the wonderful relationship that Ken Schanzer has built with the entire Notre Dame community."

"For almost 20 years, the innovative partnership between Notre Dame and NBC has been a valuable relationship for both the University and the network, and we are delighted that it will be extended by another five years," Father Jenkins said. "Our fans and student-athletes have benefited, of course, but, most importantly, it is the general student body that has realized the greatest gains. In a collaboration unlike any other in higher education, revenue derived from the NBC contract has provided millions of dollars in financial aid to thousands of deserving students at Notre Dame, and we are pleased that this support to the academic mission of the University will continue."

Notre Dame head football coach Charlie Weis added: "I'm thrilled on two levels to hear that Notre Dame will maintain its great relationship with NBC. As the head football coach, it is very beneficial for the program to have all of our home games broadcast into every living room in the country for the foreseeable future. As an alumnus, it is great to know that future students at Notre Dame will benefit from this partnership in the form of need-based scholarships."

Each season from 2011 to 2015, NBC will televise seven games at Notre Dame Stadium and an additional eighth off-site game airing in prime time.

Revenues from the NBC contract have played a key role in Notre Dame's financial aid endowment since the start of the relationship in 1991. University officers decided then to use a portion of the football television contract revenue for undergraduate scholarship endowment (not athletic scholarships). To date, some 2,400 Notre Dame undergraduate students have received nearly $26 million in aid.

The University also has committed NBC revenues to endow doctoral fellowships in its Graduate School and MBA scholarships in its Mendoza College of Business.

The revenue generated through the NBC contract is a primary reason why Forbes magazine has recognized the substantial financial contributions made by Irish athletics to the University's academic enterprise. In a 2007 survey, Forbes reported that the Notre Dame football program returns $21.1 million to academic initiatives, a total that is more than the survey's next five programs combined.

NBC has been televising Irish home games since 1991, and this marks the fifth of a series of five-year agreements with Notre Dame. The original agreement covered the seasons from 1991 through 1995. The first five-year extension (announced in 1994) covered 1996 to 2000, the second extension (announced in May '97) covered 2001 to 2005, and the third extension (announced in December '03) covered 2006 to 2010.

Each of the initial three contracts featured a combined 30 home games over each five-year span. When the current contract expires in 2010, NBC will have televised 36 games over five years, due to the addition in several years of a seventh home game and/or an eighth off-site game.

NBC's schedule of Notre Dame home games for the coming season features San Diego State (Sept. 6), Michigan (Sept. 13), Purdue (Sept. 27), Stanford (Oct. 4), Pittsburgh (Nov. 1) and Syracuse (Nov. 22).

[Dr. Sak]

Notre Dame has it made. In basketball they play in the Big East. In football they have their own TV deal, own deal with the BCS, and can cherry pick bowls from the Big East when they don't even play in that conference. Why would they want to join a conference?

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

The Big 10 teams have to just get creative, and most teams moving to the spread is the right start.

Old time football fans might hate it, but look at the teams in the National Title games as of late: spread teams with lots of speed who get the balls their playmakers in space.

The 3 yards and a cloud of dust game just doesn't work. Look at happened to Bama vs Florida and vs Utah, and look at Georiga. The pro style offense just isn't the answer.

Ohio State has yet to learn how to defend the spread because they rarely face it, and when they do, it's vs teams with inferior speed (Northwestern, Minnesota, Michigan this year) so it's easier to defend against, but when they play Florida, or when LSU at times last year spread them out, they just got abused.

With Pryor in at QB, you spread the field, let your D see it, and get used to it.

It's the reason I have faith in Rich Rod turning Michigan back into a power it hasn't been since 97; he's putting speed on the field all over the place and he's going to let the playmakers make plays.

You won't win grinding out 7 minute drives to score a TD, and then watch your opponent do it in 2 minutes, it just doesn't work that way anymore and the Big 10, for whatever reason, still seems to have the Woody and Bo mentality.

As a Big 10 slappy it's time for this clinging on to the past to stop.

I think this hits it on the head here. The Big Ten is still playing 80s power football and just hasn't caught up with the times. Heck, I'm an IU alum, and the best season they've had in over a decade was 07 when they spread the field and got the ball to playmakers like Hardy.

But watching the NFL playoffs, it's obvious the Big Ten makes good OL. Weird to see so many corn fed midwesterners on lines in places like San Diego. But the Big Ten does need to branch out....the opportunities are there because small schools in the south and west land good talent.

But I also think everything will come around. 7 or 8 years from now when everyone is in a spread offense and has small, quick defenses to stop it some team will bring in 11 guys no smaller than 280 pounds and run smashmouth all day long. Then they'll swing back the other way.

[Kodos]

I actually think with the spread becoming so common, a decent strategy is to go back to the old style of play now because defenses are being built to stop the spread. Besides, at least with IU, the spread is boring to watch. Of course, Bill Lynch and his staff are terrible coaches, and horribly predictable in their playcalling. So maybe that is a factor in why I think the spread is boring. I'd love to see an option-based team again.

[Huckleberry]

First of all, I don't think the Big 10 is dead. I just wanted to make a comment on the Texas offense/Big 12 offense thing.

The high offensive numbers this year in the Big 12 were due to three things, IMO.

1.) Good offenses
2.) Fast pace
3.) The Big 12 doesn't call holding

Reason #2 is never talked about for some reason. Look at how many snaps the Fox crew missed in Monday's game. The Big 12, I would bet, had more possessions per game than any other league. Oklahoma, in particular, snaps the ball with at least 20 seconds on the play clock more than any team I've ever seen.

The defenses weren't as bad as they were made out to be and the offenses weren't as good. Combination of reasons 2 and 3.

And Texas did a lot of self-destructing Monday night. The Longhorns gained 468 yards. That's the most yards allowed by an Ohio State defense since giving up 486 yards to Purdue on October 21, 2000.

And even allowing for the Buckeyes' very good defense, we didn't play that well. McCoy made more unforced errors than he did in any other 3-game stretch this year (like when Malcolm Williams was 5 yards behind Malcolm Jenkins).

[cartman]

What is interesting about the NBC/Notre Dame article is that there are no dollar amounts listed. I remember when the first deal was announced back in the 80s, the big figures were the main focus of the articles. That makes me think the numbers went down.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, but they don't need the money...it's just the principle of telling kids they'll be on national, broadcast TV during the year. Mom and Dad can watch your games AND you get to go to a school that's got a degree that's worth it.

That's the thing. Other than Stanford, there aren't many elite academic schools playing major college football and the academies don't count. Neither do flagship state universities.

So Notre Dame is always going to have an advantage, regardless of whether their team sucks forever or not, because they are STILL Notre Dame. The Yankees didn't stop being the Yankees even went all of those years without winning a World Series.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Notre Dame has it made. In basketball they play in the Big East. In football they have their own TV deal, own deal with the BCS, and can cherry pick bowls from the Big East when they don't even play in that conference. Why would they want to join a conference?

There is no doubt we should be threatening to kick them out of the Big East for basketball.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

How many SEC games outside of FLA or GA have you watched? If anything, many of the SEC teams are three yards and a cloud of dust. Also, until the last few years, the Big 12 wasn't much different.

MWC games are fun to watch though.

Yes, don't we all remember the "Meyer's offense will never work in the SEC" thread?

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Kodos

The Big Ten is so bad right now. I'm hoping it's just a cyclical thing, but I have my doubts. What does the Big Ten need to do to be able to compete with the SEC, PAC-10, etc.? Besides take magical speed-enhancing pills.

Ask Indiana to stop playing football?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by primelord

Ask Indiana to stop playing football?

That would probably be doing me a big favor. It is torture watching the inept handling of the football program at IU. Terry Hoeppner was the only good thing (aside from Randle El) to happen to IU football since the Bill Mallory days ended in the early 90s. So of course Hoeppner had to get a brain tumor and die. Bill Lynch couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.

[RainMaker]

I enjoy watching Big 10 football. I'm one of the few who is just sick and tired of seeing everyone running the spread. It's the reason I loved watching USC play this year, especially in the bowl. None of that spread option crap, just stuffing the ball down the other teams throat.