New e-reader:Kindle?

[AgustusM]

forget to mention a couple of other things that have been very useful.

I have an above average vocabulary, but I still encounter words constantly I either don't know, or I know the gist of, if not the exact meaning. The ability to look up any word on the device is amazing. I use it all the time. I now look up 90% of the words I don't know against the 1% I would take the time to find a dictionary for pre-kindle.

I also really enjoy the ability to look something up anywhere. I was at the doctors office and he mentioned a book that would help with my back. I looked it up while I was in his office and was reading the sample before I even left.

there is also the basics of not losing your place, searching for words, carrying around hundreds of books.

I still have plenty of paper books, but really only prefer them for technical books that have screen shots. Other than that I find the entire experience of reading on the kindle superior to paper. Equivalent to the superiority of digital music.

[Yellow5]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

I still have plenty of paper books, but really only prefer them for technical books that have screen shots. Other than that I find the entire experience of reading on the kindle superior to paper. Equivalent to the superiority of digital music.

Agree with you all the way. I actually use mine more for carrying my entire bookshelf of tech manuals with me. Just makes my job easier.

I read every day on my Kindle, for work and at night when I want to settle in for a good book and I prefer it now to paper books. Easier to read, change the scale of the text when needed and all of the positive things listed earlier in the thread.

I am not very keen on the Kindle 2 however. Removing the ability to use SD cards is kind of lame, and there isn't a large enough leap in technology to make me want the new one.

[gstelmack]

The ability to carry around tech books (are the MSPress books available on it?) could be a big win for me. I go through books pretty fast, and the shelves at home are filling up; that alone might make one worth it.

Just not sure if it's $359 worth it.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

4) The format is still Amazon based. Meaning I could spend thousands building a nice digital library and only be able to use it on Amazon's system. What if e-readers never make it big and Amazon stops making Kindles? What if a much better e-reader comes along that I want to use? This is my biggest gripe. I'd rather pay a few bucks more and own the book. Be able to give it to friends, sell it used, etc.

I still have Q's thoughts about the e-reader. It just does not seem to fit my lifestyle. But, even if I did think that it made more sense for me, the problem outlined here would still give me pause. I am much less likely to buy information that is in propriatary formats.

[PurdueBrad]

I don't think I've seen an answer to this anywhere.

Am I able to read the Kindle in a dark room or do I need to provide a book light? Not a huge deal, just curious.

[ISiddiqui]

You need a book light. It's like a regular book, it needs light.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The idea that people would pay $359 for this just ... well, suffice to say I don't understand it at all & likely won't live long enough for it to ever make sense to me.

edit to add: FTR, I didn't pop into the thread randomly just to make that observation. I happened to hit the amazon.com website a few minutes ago & was met by the sales pitch for Kindle2, which caused me to remember this thread.

[lurker]

Is it really that hard for people who don't commute on crowded trains every day to imagine what life is like for people who do? I don't get it -- people even explained how they like the idea of holding something small like this while also holding onto a train rail. What more is there to get? It's probably not marketed at people who only read in bed.

And as far as expense, it's probably not *that* much if you're not spending much on a car and gas.

[RainMaker]

Here is one thing I'd like to know as a potential customer. Lets say I buy $4000 worth of books in the next couple years for my Kindle. The e-reader market takes off and Apple creates one that puts everything else to shame. I want to buy the Apple e-reader when my Kindle breaks. Does this mean that I have $4000 worth of unusable files?

I can completely understand the convenience and price thing. But I can't understand buying locked books where the only key costs $400 and has no guarantee to be around in the future. If the files were not protected, I would feel much better about buying it and the content.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but when I buy something, I want to own it. I don't want to have to be cornered into another product just to use it. It's why I avoided buying MP3s at iTunes and used Amazon instead. I have no problem buying the content, I have a problem with having to rely on a specific company to use it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by lurker

Is it really that hard for people who don't commute on crowded trains every day to imagine what life is like for people who do? I don't get it -- people even explained how they like the idea of holding something small like this while also holding onto a train rail. What more is there to get? It's probably not marketed at people who only read in bed.

And as far as expense, it's probably not *that* much if you're not spending much on a car and gas.

It's not being promoted as a niche product for train commuters. It takes up the entire homepage of Amazon right now. It's being pushed on TV shows and at shows. Amazon is banking a large part of their future on this product. I just don't think they would do that if it was just built for commuter trains.

[AgustusM]

Funny, I have been one of the most outspoken advocates of this and I don't commute or travel anymore - 90% of the time I am reading at home, the other 10% when I am stuck waiting somewhere like the doctors office.

I would have killed for this device 10 years ago when I flew all over the country every other week for work.

the initial price is high, but between the money I have saved and how much I use it I am hard pressed to think of a gadget I have gotten more value from.

some of it probably has to do with how much you read - I prefer reading to almost any other leisure activity and I read far more than I watch TV. I guess it all comes down to personal preference.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lurker

Is it really that hard for people who don't commute on crowded trains every day to imagine what life is like for people who do?

At this point I have problems imagining a life that includes enough time and/or spare mental energy to read often enough to make this a purchase worth consideration. With that in mind, you'll just have to understand that I might not have a great deal of connection with the lifestyle of rail commuters.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Here is one thing I'd like to know as a potential customer. Lets say I buy $4000 worth of books in the next couple years for my Kindle. The e-reader market takes off and Apple creates one that puts everything else to shame. I want to buy the Apple e-reader when my Kindle breaks. Does this mean that I have $4000 worth of unusable files?

I can completely understand the convenience and price thing. But I can't understand buying locked books where the only key costs $400 and has no guarantee to be around in the future. If the files were not protected, I would feel much better about buying it and the content.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but when I buy something, I want to own it. I don't want to have to be cornered into another product just to use it. It's why I avoided buying MP3s at iTunes and used Amazon instead. I have no problem buying the content, I have a problem with having to rely on a specific company to use it.

that is a concern, I do agree with your overall premise. For example I don't like my music in DRM format because I will reuse those files over and over for the rest of my life and will want to be able to port them to whatever the best device for playback is.

but for me most books are essentially disposable. I do re-read a book on occasion but for the most part if it isn't a reference book (in which case I wouldn't buy it in this format) I rarely go back to it. I have large bookshelves at home filled with books I will never read again. For that reason I am less concerned about owning the book outright. I also know their is always a way around stuff like propriety formats.

no, I don't work for amazon and I don't get any cut or anything for advocating - I just believe in the product.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

that is a concern, I do agree with your overall premise. For example I don't like my music in DRM format because I will reuse those files over and over for the rest of my life and will want to be able to port them to whatever the best device for playback is.

but for me most books are essentially disposable. I do re-read a book on occasion but for the most part if it isn't a reference book (in which case I wouldn't buy it in this format) I rarely go back to it. I have large bookshelves at home filled with books I will never read again. For that reason I am less concerned about owning the book outright. I also know their is always a way around stuff like propriety formats.

no, I don't work for amazon and I don't get any cut or anything for advocating - I just believe in the product.

I can understand that. But if I'm buying a completely disposable product, I think it should be much cheaper. Kindle prices just don't seem to offer that much of a discount. If they were a third of the price of the actual book, I would be more interested in not owning a copy of the book.

And if it is a disposable product, I think a monthly rental feature would be much better. A Netflix for books. Give me unlimited access to their library for $20-$25/month.

Books have value to me beyond the initial read. I like to give them out to friends, trade with people, and can even sell my copy at a future time. The used book market is fairly solid if you take good care of your books. It's also nice to be able to go back and read a good book years later.

[Buccaneer]

Yellow mentioned something that could be a good future selling point - changing text size, esp. as eyes get older.

But I still don't understand the light thing. I thought it was backlit - which would cause more eye fatigue than a book light on a paper page. But why would this also require a book light?

[ISiddiqui]

No, it isn't backlit.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Books have value to me beyond the initial read. I like to give them out to friends, trade with people, and can even sell my copy at a future time. The used book market is fairly solid if you take good care of your books. It's also nice to be able to go back and read a good book years later.

So it isn't for you. I hardly ever lend out my books to friends. I still have every book I've ever bought in my bookshelf/library.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Here is one thing I'd like to know as a potential customer. Lets say I buy $4000 worth of books in the next couple years for my Kindle. The e-reader market takes off and Apple creates one that puts everything else to shame. I want to buy the Apple e-reader when my Kindle breaks. Does this mean that I have $4000 worth of unusable files?

Yes, but that's a result of Amazon linking their Kindle with their eBook store. You can't buy an eBook from Amazon unless you have and register a Kindle. But that's today, who knows what will happen in the future.

But you don't have to buy the eBooks from Amazon. The Kindle reads several different formats, and can convert several others. There are a lot of places to buy eBooks online. Some publishers even sell eBook versions of their books from their own website. If you are worried about being able to use your ebooks, or convert formats, in the future, there are still plenty of options out there.

[cougarfreak]

I've had one since August. I use it every day, works great for me. Book are generally pretty cheaper, and I find it to be a good value. I've also bought books from Fictionwise, and downloaded a lot of free books.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Yellow mentioned something that could be a good future selling point - changing text size, esp. as eyes get older.

But I still don't understand the light thing. I thought it was backlit - which would cause more eye fatigue than a book light on a paper page. But why would this also require a book light?

An eInk screen is opaque, so it can't be backlit. The Sony Reader 700 does have a light built into it (lights from the side), though.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Yes, but that's a result of Amazon linking their Kindle with their eBook store. You can't buy an eBook from Amazon unless you have and register a Kindle. But that's today, who knows what will happen in the future.

But you don't have to buy the eBooks from Amazon. The Kindle reads several different formats, and can convert several others. There are a lot of places to buy eBooks online. Some publishers even sell eBook versions of their books from their own website. If you are worried about being able to use your ebooks, or convert formats, in the future, there are still plenty of options out there.

Is there a universal format that many use? For instance MP3 in music. Also, are there any major bookstores that sell the ebooks online? If so, what is the difference in price? I just haven't heard of major stores out there that sell ebooks.

[Buccaneer]

Ok, I just watched the video on amazon and I'm still confused. It looks like a big PDA or iPod. How is it not backlit? Also, how big is the reading area? Is it comparable to a paperback page? Is that keyboard in the lower part? If so, why or why not simple mp3 device-like controls?

[ISiddiqui]

LOL... oh, Bucc, and you wonder about the jokes about your age .

It's NOT backlit. E-ink technology is designed to replicate paper as much as possible to reduce eyestrain. It requires external light to read.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Is there a universal format that many use? For instance MP3 in music.

Not really. I mean, there's TXT, DOC, RTF, etc. files, but I don't think anyone sells simple text files. Most eBook websites that I've seen sell in a few different versions, PDF, LIT (MS's format) and Mobipocket seem to be the most popular formats.

Also, are there any major bookstores that sell the ebooks online? If so, what is the difference in price? I just haven't heard of major stores out there that sell ebooks.

Borders and Sony have a deal, but Borders hasn't done much yet except sell the Readers and link to Sony's own store (and Sony's Store, at least the interface, is not very good). I can't speak much to the price since 95% of what is on my Sony Reader are text files downloaded from Project Gutenberg. I haven't bought many eBooks yet.

[Yellow5]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Yellow mentioned something that could be a good future selling point - changing text size, esp. as eyes get older.

But I still don't understand the light thing. I thought it was backlit - which would cause more eye fatigue than a book light on a paper page. But why would this also require a book light?

The e-ink display tech does not work this way. No back light.

One thing mentioned above was being stuck with a bunch of books in the Kindle format. The Kindle book format is actually the mobi format, wrapped in Amazons kit.

There are simple python scripts available that would allow you to strip the Kindle format down to something that can be converted for use on other devices/formats. Not something the average joe is going to do but wanted to let folks know it is possible.

I have converted normal text files, mobi, PDF and other formats to work on my Kindle and have been happy with the results. Mobipocket provides a free program to do this.

[AgustusM]

As I have been reading this it occurs to me that the kindle is a lot like playing Front Office Football.

For most of us here FOF is a joy and something that matters to us, but you can try to explain it to other people, and their reaction will be "why would anybody want to spend time doing that"

The kindle appears to have a bit of the same effect. Some people such as myself love it and think it is worth every penny. Others don't understand why anyone would want a device like this, especially at the price.

Nothing wrong with that, it what makes the world go round. different things matter to different people.

[TroyF]

I read a ton. I travel a ton. I read everything from light hearted comedy type stories (Christopher Moore) to bio's (Lincoln is my latest), to popular novels to essays. . . ok, you get it. I like to read.

I love my kindle. It's one of the best purchases I've ever made.

I have multiple books at my disposal at all times. If I'm in the mood to read about poker, I can do that. If I want to read a quick, funny essay before I go to sleep, I can do that. If I have a good two hours to put into a novel, I can do that too. And I only have to carry one book.

I don't think I'll be hopping on the Kindle 2 bandwagon. The first version does everything I want it to do.

Buc,

The screen is not backlit. It looks like paper. You need light to read it and there is zero eye strain. I had to give up on previous types of book readers because I'd get styes. With the Kindle, I've never had that problem.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I have multiple books at my disposal at all times. If I'm in the mood to read about poker, I can do that. If I want to read a quick, funny essay before I go to sleep, I can do that. If I have a good two hours to put into a novel, I can do that too. And I only have to carry one book.

yes, this is another major benefit that I forgot to tout. In fact one of the biggest - sometimes I am just not in the mood to read something serious and can switch over to something lighter. No way to carry around 100 "real" books and choose the one your in the mood for the way you can with the kindle.

I know for me one of the things I liked about the kindle 2 appears to be one of the most controversial and that is the ability to switch back and forth from audio book, to reading. I frequently will get a book in both formats and manually make the switch, but it is a pain and this new feature sounded like something I would definitely use. too bad it looks like some people are fighting it.

[PurdueBrad]

My Kindle 2 just arrived and I am quite excited. I hadn't played with one or used one before but it's really impressive. I had $275 worth of credit card rewards to use for Amazon gift cards so I took a shot. It's pretty impressive thus far.

First book...Christopher Moore's Fool for $9.99 rather than the 18.46 I would've gotten it on sale for.

[ISiddiqui]

Let's us know how it goes Brad

[Raiders Army]

There's a free Kindle app for the iPhone that was released yesterday. You can read books that you've bought on your Kindle or buy them on your phone and read 'em.

[terpkristin]

Man, I'm sooo tempted to get a Kindle.

One of the next toys I'm going to buy (within the next year) is probably an iPod Touch. But I don't need it yet, so I'm holding off. But, prior to doing that, I'm going to be doing some traveling for work, and there are some books I'd like to read. It would be easier to travel with something small like that. I have read in the past on my PDA, but I do that mostly when I want to read in small bursts, like while waiting in line or such.

Alright, someone talk me out of buying the Kindle. Please?

/tk

[terpkristin]

Dola,
One thing I like about the Kindle is I can get newer books without having to get them in hardback. I would like to read The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, for example, but I don't see a point in buying it hardback, and am ready to read it now, I don't want to wait until the paperback comes out. So I could buy the h/b for ~15 at amazon or the Kindle version for 12ish. That's the thing I like..

There will still be books I buy in h/b (like GRRM's books), but with a Kindle, I may end up buying multiple versions...

/tk

[fantom1979]

If I read a lot or was in situations where I had a ton of time to burn (like a mass transit commute to work), I would be all over this.

Jeff Bezos was showing off the Kindle 2 on The Daily Show last week.

[Raiders Army]

If it had color (for comic books) that would be great. It'd also be nice if you bought a book on Amazon, you could get the electronic copy for free.

[PurdueBrad]

My early impressions thus far are very positive. Remember though, I didn't have Kindle 1:

1- It is very easy and nice to read. I was concerned about not having that feeling of a book in my hand but it quickly went away. Very easy on the eyes and light to hold. I bought the cheap case, which is nice at giving the Kindle a feeling of thickness.

2- The Kindle Store is amazing. I timed the first download because I had trouble believing it would be in under a minute...and it was. Actually got Christopher Moore's Fool in about fourteen seconds. I also love the preview function as I read the first three chapters to the new James Patterson book. It's a great feature that replaces the need to go into a bookstore to flip through the books.

3- The voice-to-text function is very neat. The guy voice, put down to one speed slower is actually decent. I did have to make it read fun swear words like dog-f***ingly and I chuckled for a good minute or two (yeah, I'm an overgrown child). The "female" voice sounds way too robotic and awkward.

4- The prices of books are good. I looked at what my next shopping trip to Borders was going to cost vs. what it would be on the Kindle. I was planning on spending approximately $230. Via the Kindle, I'll be spending about $155. That saves me $75 right there, which is very nice.

5- I do love the sleep feature where pictures of famous authors appear. My one concern there though is if I leave it in sleep, is there a chance of "burn in" of the picture. Haven't looked for an answer yet but will.

6- The charger is actually really cool. It looks like a regular power adapter but then the end pops off and it also serves as a USB power charger. Really cool and simple, would like to see more of these in the future.

[WheelsVT]

I bought my wife a Kindle 2 for her birthday. She is HOOKED. She's flown through a 700 page book in under a week. It's great to have with the kids around b/c they can't pick up the book and loose your place or tear it up. I like it b/c it'll be less space taken up by books on bookshelves.

I can list 3 cons to it so far.

1) The joystick menu selection thing would be better as a IPOD like slide bar or wheel.

2) The refresh time is slow enough that trying to navigate to something quickly (like a Bible verse) takes WAY to long.

3) There are large next and small prev page buttons on either side of the Kindle. I'd think that the larger button on the left should be a previous page. Then they could just get rid of the smaller buttons above the "next page" button. I've found myself getting lost by hitting the left next button a few times trying to go back only to go forward.

So far I am impressed. It's been a great gift. She loves not having to hold a book open, not worrying about losing her place, and having a book store at her fingertips.

[terpkristin]

I'm sold. I ended up having some credit with Amazon, and some OT stuff, plus I'll be traveling a good bit in the next few months, this seems like a perfect compliment to my reading style (nevermind that I probably spend ~300 a year in books already so saving there will help recoup costs), I'm making my order. Should I just get the regular Amazon case? Or is there one that's better?

/tk

[ISiddiqui]

I think they have Next and Previous on both sides so you can read with either hand.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

I'm sold. I ended up having some credit with Amazon, and some OT stuff, plus I'll be traveling a good bit in the next few months, this seems like a perfect compliment to my reading style (nevermind that I probably spend ~300 a year in books already so saving there will help recoup costs), I'm making my order. Should I just get the regular Amazon case? Or is there one that's better?

/tk

It snaps into the regular case really well. I'm not sure how much drop protection it provides but I'm quite satisfied with it.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

5- I do love the sleep feature where pictures of famous authors appear. My one concern there though is if I leave it in sleep, is there a chance of "burn in" of the picture. Haven't looked for an answer yet but will.

IIRC, e-ink can't burn in. It's kinda like an etch-a-sketch.

[PurdueBrad]

Thanks ISsiddiqui, that's kind of what I was hoping/thinking.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think they have Next and Previous on both sides so you can read with either hand.

As was brought up during The Daily Show interview..... "You can read this with one hand" what would you use that for???

[Buccaneer]

I have heard, when discussing this in another forum, that quality of the b/w photos are a little less than newspaper quality. I think technology will improve this eventually but a lot of history books I read have these glossy inserts in the book, or have lots of details maps throughout. Maybe like an audiobook, it's good for straight text.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I guess I don't lead a sufficiently "mobile" life to see much benefit in carrying a library of books with me. I guess I get the point if you are on the road a lot or something, but for the way I read books, I find taking a book in hand (or in my car, or whatever) to be extremely convenient.

To me, reading books just isn't a complex endeavor. I generally am reading one (non-poker) book at any time, and it sits by my bed. When I'm done with it, it holds very little continued utility to me to continue to carry around. Books, to me, just seem like the exact opposite of music -- there's an obvious and profound advantage to having your music collection portable. I don't see it for books at all.

I guess if I were using books for research or reference, the wide instant access would be a benefit. But clearly that's not enough of a market to make a company any real profits. So this has to be a product that people (more or less) like me are buying and using. And that, to respond to your apparent puzzlement, is why I ask.

Download a book instantly? Okay, I get it. I don't think I'd pay a premium for the privilege, but I get that much. Carry all my books (or scores of them) around all the time? I don't get it at all, why bother?

I love this guy. Seriously. I subscribe to a lot of threads here, but im thinking about a QuikSand subscription as well if it's possible. You talk a lotta sense.

[lordscarlet]

I think the main "have all your books at hand" advantage is for reference materials.

Having said that, I don't think having everything at hand is the selling point of this device. One is the form factor. Two is the lack of book son the shelves (if you're a heavy library user, this factor is far less appealing). Third is the "Green"-ness of it. Fourth, the ability to bookmark and quickly reference sections of a book. Lastly, of course, is the cool factor.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Two is the lack of book son the shelves

I think the presence of physical books on the shelves is a major reason many people buy books to begin with. The reading of that book may or may not come into the equation, but damn if all those books don't look impressive sitting there on the shelf.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think the presence of physical books on the shelves is a major reason many people buy books to begin with. The reading of that book may or may not come into the equation, but damn if all those books don't look impressive sitting there on the shelf.

+1

I am one of those who actually enjoys building his own "library" as silly as it sounds.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

+1

I am one of those who actually enjoys building his own "library" as silly as it sounds.

Actually, so do I. But I'm at a point where I'm already 1 or 2 bookshelves short of what I need for what I have (a trip to Ikea is really in order, maybe when this travel stuff calms down, so I can finally get my books out of the moving boxes).

I don't think the Kindle will really stop me from buying certain books in book form, still. There are some, like the GRRM books, that I have all in hardback, and will continue to get them in hardback...but I may also buy a Kindle version for reading on the go.

/tk

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think the presence of physical books on the shelves is a major reason many people buy books to begin with. The reading of that book may or may not come into the equation, but damn if all those books don't look impressive sitting there on the shelf.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm that way as well. However, one of the selling points of the Kindle is that it will take so muchh less storage space -- that is certainly not a selling point for everyone, but it is for a significant portion of the population. My friend that can read a 1,00 page book in 4 hours, for instance, just simply cannot own every book she ever read. (although, she's big on the library, so the point is moot)