2007 NBA Draft/Offseason Thread

[DeToxRox]

I think Law is going to be a solid contributor right away. He's a four year guy who plays with attitude and has that aura about him where he wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game.

Take away Conleys tournament and what'd he really do?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think he's ok, but there's no way he's as good as Conley. I only saw Acie play a couple of times, though.

manlove

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Seriously tho .. am I the only one who feels Law is the best PG in this draft? I think he is going to be Brandon Roy-like as a rookie.

I don't think there's a great PG in this draft. I think Law, Conley, and Crittenton on about the same level. In '05 none of these guys are anywhere near the lottery. All have multiple flaws in their game.

Its a great draft to be a PG.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

So, if Boston takes Conley at 5, they will have:
6-4 G Tony Allen (1st rounder in 04)
6-0 G Sabby Telfair (1st rounder in 04)
6-2 G Delonte West (1st rounder in 04)
6-1 G Rajon Rondo (1st rounder in 06)
6-0 G Mike Conley (1st rounder in 07)

And that's not even counting the 6-2 Allan Ray. That would be about a 7.5/10 on the unintentional comedy scale by Bill Simmons. Surpassed only by the SF collection in Atlanta and the WR group in Detroit.

The difference is that none of the first 3 can play point guard, and the jury's out on Rondo. I'd love to take Brewer, but at the 2/3 we have

Paul Pierce
Wally Szczerbiak (please get rid of him)
Tony Allen
Delonte West
Gerald Green (supposedly our wing of the future, but I doubt he ever develops. I think he'd be lucky to score a 10 on the Wonderlic if this was the NFL.)

taking Brewer would essentially mean trading one of our three proven NBA players (Pierce/Wally/Jefferson) or giving up on the guy (Green) with the most "potential" on the team. Then, Jefferson is firmly entrenched at the 4 with Perkins a serviceable backup at the 4/5 but not starter material. Unless we can magically swing a deal for a center, or we switch to a small-ball lineup with Jefferson at the 5 (I wouldn't be entirely against the idea) PG is the only logical spot for improvement.

[rkmsuf]

wow, C's fans really think that conley is a big upgrade from rondo? that's amazing to me to consider that type talent at #5 in the draft.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

wow, C's fans really think that conley is a big upgrade from rondo? that's amazing to me to consider that type talent at #5 in the draft.

There's a lot of 3-4 types available, like Wright, the Chinaman, Horford, Noah. But those guys are a dime a dozen, there's always a bunch of good ones in the draft. Good point guards and centers don't come around that often.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There's a lot of 3-4 types available, like Wright, the Chinaman, Horford, Noah. But those guys are a dime a dozen, there's always a bunch of good ones in the draft. Good point guards and centers don't come around that often.

the central point revolves around the concept of "good" I guess

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

the central point revolves around the concept of "good" I guess

"Good" kind of means better in the next 3 years. I have no idea about the Chinese guy, but the three college players (that should be there at 5) that excite me are Brewer, Brandon Wright and Horford. Brewer I went over up top, Horford is basically the same player Jefferson is and Wright is not going to be a better SF than Pierce anytime soon. If Hibbert were still in the draft, we'd probably pick him and hope he turned into a good center.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2895185

Quin Snyder grew up a fan of Sonics great Dennis Johnson, a poster of Johnson gracing a bedroom wall in his childhood home in suburban Seattle.

Snyder, who was forced to resign as Missouri's head coach in February 2006, on Wednesday learned he will be replacing the late Johnson as head coach of the NBA Development League's Austin Toros. The 40-year-old Snyder said he has accepted a one-year contract to coach the team in the surging NBA minor league.

"I'm excited, but it is under bad circumstances and my heart goes out to his family," Snyder said of Johnson, who died suddenly at 52 on Feb. 22. "I grew up watching D.J."

Snyder was considered a rising star in the Division I coaching ranks, first as an assistant coach under Mike Krzyzewski at Duke and later when he was hired as head coach at Missouri. Snyder was 126-91 in seven seasons with the Tigers but only 42-42 in his final three, until he was forced out with two seasons remaining and seven games left in the 2005-06 season. Then-assistant Melvin Watkins finished out the season as coach, and that spring Missouri hired UAB coach Mike Anderson as Snyder's successor.

The tenure of Snyder, who led the Tigers to four NCAA Tournaments and an Elite Eight appearance in 2002, was marred by an NCAA investigation centering on Ricky Clemons. The former Missouri guard claimed he was paid by coaches at the university, and Snyder was named in 17 allegations between 1999 and 2004. Ultimately, Missouri avoided a postseason ban, was placed on three years' probation, and assistant coaches Lane Odom and Tony Harvey lost their jobs. Snyder, who at the time was ordered not to recruit off-campus for a year, reportedly received a buyout of $574,000 at the time of his firing.

Since leaving Missouri, Snyder said he has been traveling mostly and being somewhat nomadic.

"I came to the conclusion after looking at business stuff that I wanted to coach. That's my passion," Snyder said. "I'm excited about this opportunity. I missed the competition, the teaching and the coaching. This is a great opportunity for me."

Snyder said he isn't looking for the Toros job as a steppingstone to the NBA, which is exactly what the D-League is for its players. NBA teams are allowed to populate the D-League with their first and second-year players in the D-League. The 15-team league hopes to one day equal the NBA's 30-team membership.

"Quin has a tremendous upside and I see him one day, if he chooses this route, to be a head coach in the NBA," David Kahn, the former Indiana Pacers general manager who owns and operates the Austin franchise, said. "He's getting a chance to return to the roots of coaching basketball. We may have fewer games than the NBA but we have more practices."

Kahn said the team will be affiliated with the San Antonio Spurs and possibly the Boston Celtics. The Toros had been the affiliate of the Houston Rockets a year ago, Kahn said, but now that the D-League has a new team in the Rio Grande Valley, the Rockets are expected to be linked to it.

The Toros' season opens in November.

"I just want to coach, go to practices and play games. I'm not looking beyond that," Snyder said. "I'm just excited about the present. It's a new beginning for me in a place I really like."

Andy Katz is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

Really?

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Rondo and West are both Gil Arenas style guards, not really what you want for a point. And Conley can play defense.

Not that it really matters who they take, they're probably going to suck anyway.

I see no Arenas in Rondo. Rondo is no shoot first pg, he's def. about passing the rock and playing defense.

[Sublime 2]

dola

I'm pretty sure Ainge went on record as saying Rondo is their guy at PG. Not that that means a whole hell of a lot.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2895185



Really?

Are you fucking kidding me? "Upside" has progressed to describing coaches now?!

This world is screwed.

[Groundhog]

I don't see how the jury can be "out" on Rondo. He performed pretty well for a rookie IMO.

[Groundhog]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2...e=NBAHeadlines

I think it's funny that what the article from draftexpress I posted back in post #2 of this thread said is coming true, as people instantly forget everything Durant did over the entire college season because he ranked behind such outstanding prospects as D.J. Strawberry and Demetris Nichols in the combine.

That says a lot more about the value of the pre-draft measurements than it does about the players measured IMO.

Like I said earlier, Andre Igoudala's vertical was measured just 1 inch greater than J.J. Reddick.

[Groundhog]

Interesting... Blazers are calling in Javaris Crittenton in for an individual workout on the day before the draft. They clearly won't be using the #1 on him and he figures to go late lottery at best and no worse than the 1st round, so why would they do this?

Speculation is that they have a trade worked out, and the current rumour is Jarrett Jack to Atlanta for the #11, which sounds like the kind of trade Atlanta would make. I think Jack took some big steps forward last season, but this is a deep draft and I don't know that you give up a #11 for him unless you are completely sure that the PGs in this class are not worth an #11. I'd argue that only Conley is a top 14 pick at PG as I think it's a bit of a Mateen Cleaves-esque reach to grab one of the others so early, so maybe if the Hawks don't take Conley at #3 and he's gone by #11 they make this trade based on need. Perhaps it might be better to grab the BPA who isn't a 6'8 wing, but it's hard to argue with the fact that the Hawks have needed a PG since, like, Mookie Blaylock hung up his sneakers.

It's probably all an unfounded rumour of course, but clearly the Blazers are exploring options to pick up a pick in the late lottery, given that they are also hosting Nick Young and Al Thornton, two other guys that figure to be taken around the #11ish pick.

[DeToxRox]

Rumored off-season deal:

To DET: Zach Randolph
To WAS: Rasheed Wallace
To POR: Antwan Jamison

Not sure how legitmate this could be but throwing it out there.

[JPhillips]

I don't like either Randolph or Wallace for the Wiz, but if they make a trade getting Randolph is way better than Wallace.

[Brian Swartz]

No way. Dumars isn't that stupid. And hopefully for their sake, Washington isn't that stupid either. Great deal for Portland obviously, but it's never gonna happen.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2...e=NBAHeadlines

I think it's funny that what the article from draftexpress I posted back in post #2 of this thread said is coming true, as people instantly forget everything Durant did over the entire college season because he ranked behind such outstanding prospects as D.J. Strawberry and Demetris Nichols in the combine.

That says a lot more about the value of the pre-draft measurements than it does about the players measured IMO.

Like I said earlier, Andre Igoudala's vertical was measured just 1 inch greater than J.J. Reddick.

I was cracking up when I read that article earlier today. With what ridiculous criteria could you possibly rate SEVENTY SEVEN prospects above him?

Is this some sort of massive conspiracy orchestrated by Atlanta to get him to fall?

Shit like THIS is why the NBA is a joke.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Logan

I was cracking up when I read that article earlier today. With what ridiculous criteria could you possibly rate SEVENTY SEVEN prospects above him?

Is this some sort of massive conspiracy orchestrated by Atlanta to get him to fall?

Shit like THIS is why the NBA is a joke.

Its the same workouts NBA teams put players through every year. He rated 78th because he finished almost dead last in every workout the players did. From what I've read the only red flag it's raised on Durant is work ethic, because there's no reason he should have worked out that poorly.

I don't see any conspiracy or anything out of the norm other than the fact the media caught onto this and ran with it. There's still no way he slips past #2.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Logan

I was cracking up when I read that article earlier today. With what ridiculous criteria could you possibly rate SEVENTY SEVEN prospects above him?

Is this some sort of massive conspiracy orchestrated by Atlanta to get him to fall?

Shit like THIS is why the NBA is a joke.

I think it's more to do with players just not having the same incentive at the NBA pre-draft workout as they do at the NFL, where a bad measurement can knock you out of being drafted on the first day pretty quickly.

Even so, it's surprising that people still take the NBA measurements seriously, as there is always at least one prospect who, while a borderline-2nd rounder pre-measurements, jumps up to the 1st round based on the 'enormous potential' revealed by these measurements.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

No way. Dumars isn't that stupid. And hopefully for their sake, Washington isn't that stupid either. Great deal for Portland obviously, but it's never gonna happen.

As a Pistons fan, I'd risk the temper and off the court nonsense of Randolphs for a legitimate post threat who averaged 23/10 last year. I don't sense it would ever happen but we lack any true toughness in the paint, and a guy like Randolph fits the mold potentially.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

As a Pistons fan, I'd risk the temper and off the court nonsense of Randolphs for a legitimate post threat who averaged 23/10 last year. I don't sense it would ever happen but we lack any true toughness in the paint, and a guy like Randolph fits the mold potentially.

Randolph is a poor fit for Detroit, though. He's a black hole. You give him the ball and he's putting up a shot. He will force the offense to run through him because of his unwillingness to pass the ball. He's also horrible defensively, so I don't think you'd be getting any toughness in the paint.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Randolph is a poor fit for Detroit, though. He's a black hole. You give him the ball and he's putting up a shot. He will force the offense to run through him because of his unwillingness to pass the ball. He's also horrible defensively, so I don't think you'd be getting any toughness in the paint.

Well, I will agree there, I am just holding out hope playing on a team full of Vets would ease him out. Honestly, I'd much rather deal Sheed to the Knicks for a guy like David Lee as I also heard somewhere. Lee isnt very good defensivley but he plays hard and is a probably a 15/10 guy if he gets the minutes.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Well, I will agree there, I am just holding out hope playing on a team full of Vets would ease him out. Honestly, I'd much rather deal Sheed to the Knicks for a guy like David Lee as I also heard somewhere. Lee isnt very good defensivley but he plays hard and is a probably a 15/10 guy if he gets the minutes.

Lee would be a good fit. I'm willing to bet Lee's defensive problems are technique and scheme rather than effort, like Randolph.

I think Rasheed needs to go. I think his meltdown in game 6 showed a lack of respect for his teammates and also showed that he's still pretty much the same guy he was in Portland. His All-Star appearances in Detroit have had more to do with the fact that he's a good player on the Eastern Conference's best team rather than how well he's played.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Lee would be a good fit. I'm willing to bet Lee's defensive problems are technique and scheme rather than effort, like Randolph.

I think Rasheed needs to go. I think his meltdown in game 6 showed a lack of respect for his teammates and also showed that he's still pretty much the same guy he was in Portland. His All-Star appearances in Detroit have had more to do with the fact that he's a good player on the Eastern Conference's best team rather than how well he's played.

I'd agree. The hope with Randolph is he'd be close to Izzo who is the one guy who could control him, but unless Izzo is coaching the Pistons (which ain't happening) I don't see why that should play in.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I think Law is going to be a solid contributor right away. He's a four year guy who plays with attitude and has that aura about him where he wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game.

Take away Conleys tournament and what'd he really do?

FWIW, I agree with your take on Conley. I really like the kid, but like I said in the NCAA Tourney thread, I'd like to see him in college for at least another year. He's got great speed and I *think* he'll wind up a good NBA PG if he works on his shot, but in a draft as deep as this one it's hard to justify taking him top-5 as a "need" pick.

I didn't see Law play this year, but I liked what I saw of him in 2006 and most of what I've read about him has me liking him. Nbadraft.net has him around at 20, and to think that we'd be sitting at 24 with a possibility of getting a player of his calibre if not for a stupid Jiri Welsch trade is killing me.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

FWIW, I agree with your take on Conley. I really like the kid, but like I said in the NCAA Tourney thread, I'd like to see him in college for at least another year. He's got great speed and I *think* he'll wind up a good NBA PG if he works on his shot, but in a draft as deep as this one it's hard to justify taking him top-5 as a "need" pick.

I didn't see Law play this year, but I liked what I saw of him in 2006 and most of what I've read about him has me liking him. Nbadraft.net has him around at 20, and to think that we'd be sitting at 24 with a possibility of getting a player of his calibre if not for a stupid Jiri Welsch trade is killing me.

I agree, I think Conley will be a good PG down the line, but he won't be a guy to jump in and play awesomely.

Ford at ESPN has Law going 14 to the Clippers, one before the Pistons. I am hoping Detroit packages 14 and 28 to move up a few picks if he is available to land him as all signs point to Law being Dumars top choice.

[Sublime 2]

Ryen Russilo is saying that the Celtics and Wizards have inquired about the availability of Robert Swift.

[Groundhog]

Although Robert Swift put some good games together back in 05-06, man, I can't help but think it's just because nobody else on the court bothered to put a body on him.

Or maybe his ghostly complexion made him nearly impossible to see:

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Ryen Russilo is saying that the Celtics and Wizards have inquired about the availability of Robert Swift.

Anything that would solicit 1500 words out of Bill Simmons makes me happy.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Two things stuck out to me from this photo:

1. I really do not want to see up his shorts, thank you very much.
2. Where is that Blazer dude's left hand?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Although Robert Swift put some good games together back in 05-06, man, I can't help but think it's just because nobody else on the court bothered to put a body on him.

I still remember him as the guy that was drafted #12 overall without doing a single workout or interview.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I still remember him as the guy that was drafted #12 overall without doing a single workout or interview.

Eh, my team took Luke Jackson at #10 in that draft, so even with his huge body of work(4 years in college) they still missed hard. Swift might be a decent center, it's too hard to say though. But some of those guys taken in the teens are going to be pretty damn good(Jefferson, Smith, etc).

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Well, I will agree there, I am just holding out hope playing on a team full of Vets would ease him out. Honestly, I'd much rather deal Sheed to the Knicks for a guy like David Lee as I also heard somewhere. Lee isnt very good defensivley but he plays hard and is a probably a 15/10 guy if he gets the minutes.

I would gladly take David Lee in a trade for Sheed. Wallace is one of the most talented players in the league...when he wants to be and the problem is that he doesn't want to be that on most nights and seems to have reverted to the old Sheed in the past two years or so. Not only that but his attitude seems to have worn off on especially Hamilton but Prince and Billups as well. They accounted for 25 T's this year - more than double the combined 12 they had when Sheed first got here not to mention the increased complaining and whining from them. Don't get me wrong - without the trade for Wallace, Detroit doesn't get the ring they did but the honeymoon's been over for quite some time now and it's time to move him along. Lee averaged a double double coming off the bench for New York - he would be a tremendous addition.

[Logan]

I'm pretty sure even Isiah wouldn't trade Lee for Rasheed.

[Sublime 2]

Nothing to earth shattering but it appears the celtics top 6 list is: Wright, Horford, Yi, Jeff Green, Brewer, and Al Thornton.

[DeToxRox]

Chris Sharidan is reporting the Pistons want Amare and are potentially looking at offering Sheed and Rip for him. Not sure how I feel about that as I am not a big Amare fan but definelty like him more then Randolph.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Chris Sharidan is reporting the Pistons want Amare and are potentially looking at offering Sheed and Rip for him. Not sure how I feel about that as I am not a big Amare fan but definelty like him more then Randolph.

I would think there is zero chance that Phoenix would make that trade.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm pretty sure even Isiah wouldn't trade Lee for Rasheed.

Agreed. Isiah would throw in a first rounder too boot

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I would think there is zero chance that Phoenix would make that trade.

I agree. I don't think either are a good fit for what Phoenix does. Well, maybe Sheed is when motivated, but he hasn't been motivated since he won a title.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I agree. I don't think either are a good fit for what Phoenix does. Well, maybe Sheed is when motivated, but he hasn't been motivated since he won a title.

I'd agree, tho' Sheed would probably have to be involved for salaries to match. I've heard Tayshaun & Rip for Marion too, which I'd much rather see. It'll be interesting.

[Arles]

The Suns don't *have* to trade Marion, unless they are getting better. Excerpt from AZ Republic:

A recent ESPN report said Sarver issued a mandate to take $8 million off the payroll. The Suns are facing about that much in a 2008 luxury tax if the payroll doesn't change.

"We don't have a mandate for anything," Sarver said. "Our payroll is going to end up in the upper group of NBA franchises. Exactly where it ends up partly is going to depend on what opportunities exist for us. We're going to be financially prudent, but we've been fortunate with good support from the fans and had good increases in revenue."

It was just reported that the Suns made $35 million with a $66 million dollar payroll last season. Why would they then need to dump Marion to keep the payroll under $70 million? If they want to save a little cash, they could package Banks, James Jones and their #29 pick to a team with cap space for a 2nd round pick. Still, even if they go into the season in the $75 million area, they would still make over $20 million after the tax.

The only way the Suns move Marion or Amare is if they get better. I can't see that happening with Amare and there are only a couple options that would do that for Marion (KG, Lewis+Wilcox, G.Wallace, Bulls or maybe Memphis). There is no deal Phoenix could do with Detroit involving Marion or Amare that would make them better. So, I don't see how one would happen. The Suns aren't the 1998 Marlins.

[Brian Swartz]

'Getting better' isn't a matter of raw talent evaluation. Marion's problem is that he wants to be more than the third option behind Nash and Stoudemire, and he tends to disappear offensively when Amare is on the floor. Personally I think if you ignore all other considerations and swap Tayshaun Prince and Marion, the Suns get better immediately. No, I don't think Prince is a better player, but it would make Phoenix a better team. Marion is also a guy who is much more energized defensively and on the boards when he is more involved offensively, so that hurts as well.

I think Phoenix needs to decide on a style and stick with it -- i.e., if they are going to run and gun, then leave Kurt Thomas on the bench because Marion plays much better at the 4 than he does at the 3. In that case you want to get the best SF you can find to upgrade.

As far the Amare trade, I don't see how it doesn't fit for Phoenix. If they have a lineup of Nash/Bell/Hamilton/Marion/R. Wallace ... I think that fits very well with what they do -- all five guys on the floor can hit the 3, and if the other team goes small Wallace can post up. If you want to go all scoring all the time like they do, no question that lineup can get it done(and of that five, you've got a great defender in Marion, very good one in Bell, while Hamilton and Wallace are good defenders as well). Depends on Sheeds motivation of course, but if its there and I think it would be playing for D'Antoni, could work out well.

[Arles]

Losing Amare for Sheed would be horrible. You're taking away a 24-year old averaging 20-10 with 58% shooting (58% eFG) and replacing him with a 32-year old averaging 12-7 with 42% shooting (48% eFG). Plus, Amare's jumpshot eFG% is very close (44%) to Sheed's (46%) and Amare is a much more dominant inside force. Prince for Marion is closer, but Marion is still a much better player in nearly every category (outside of 3s). You are basically talking about swapping two All-NBA players for a solid player in prince and a 32-year old hot-head on the downswing in his career. Plus, you say Marion "tends to disappear offensively when Amare is on the floor". According to 82 games.com, Marion played over 80% of his minutes with Amare and he put up almost 18 PPG on 52% shooting. I wish more players on the Suns would "disappear offensively" like that.

As to the second point of Nash/Hamilton/Bell/Marion/Wallace being better, I don't see it. The problem is Sheed is on the downswing and nowhere near the post presence of Amare and that lineup is very small. You have 5 jumpshooters on the floor with two more (Barbs, Diaw) coming off the bench. You basically have the 06-07 Chicago Bulls with that lineup (Heinrich-Gordon-Nocioni-Deng-Wallace). I don't see that being better than a more balanced attack of Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Thomas. Now, I would consider a Marion/Jones for Hamilton/Wallace type deal. That would give you Nash-Bell-Hamilton-Amare-Wallace.

If the Suns want to get better, they should move Kurt Thomas (expiring), James Jones ($2.8m) and the #24 pick to Denver for Camby. Then, they could have Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Camby. Denver would save almost $20 million, give them a strong rotation guy who shoots 38% from 3 (and can play 2-4), another first round pick and a solid replacement for the season in KT.

[stevew]

Amare has 32 year old knees. Keep that in mind.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by stevew

Amare has 32 year old knees. Keep that in mind.

I don't know, he had one of least serious microfracture procedures (the area was the size of a dime) on one knee at the age of 23. This isn't Penny, Houston or K-Mart having a much more serious procedure at the age of 28-31. Heck, it was significantly less invasive/serious than the surgery Kidd had in his late 20s.

He didn't miss a game all season, put up very good numbers and was explosive. I think that all rational signs point to Amare being a very good to great player for another 8-10 seasons.

All that said, stevew's comments are exactly why Amare won't be traded. You can't get fair market for a guy coming off microfracture.

[Brian Swartz]

Losing Amare for Sheed would be horrible. You're taking away a 24-year old averaging 20-10 with 58% shooting (58% eFG) and replacing him with a 32-year old averaging 12-7 with 42% shooting (48% eFG). Plus, Amare's jumpshot eFG% is very close (44%) to Sheed's (46%) and Amare is a much more dominant inside force. Prince for Marion is closer, but Marion is still a much better player in nearly every category (outside of 3s). You are basically talking about swapping two All-NBA players for a solid player in prince and a 32-year old hot-head on the downswing in his career.

I think you misunderstood. I was saying Amare for Sheed AND Rip was a good trade. Amare for Sheed? No way. Yes Amare is a better inside force and more explosive. He is also a considerably inferior defender and Sheed makes it impossible for the opposing shotblockers(say, Duncan for example) to camp out in the lane on defense.

You're still doing the x + y = z raw talent evaluation and that's not the way to look at it. The way to look at is how good is Phoenix now, and how good can they be after the trade. The Amare trade gives them the ability to leave Kurt Thomas on the bench, allow Marion to play the 4 as he should, and a much, much better weapon at the 3. With Nash and Marion, you don't need a post prescence because those guys can get into the lane whenever they want to ... it doesn't matter how you get there and free up shooters as long as you can do it.

The problem is Sheed is on the downswing and nowhere near the post presence of Amare and that lineup is very small.

Phoenix doesn't have the option of building for the future ... Nash is 33. You either win a title now or you don't win a title. Secondly, the lineup I mentioned isn't any smaller than what the Suns have now ... Nash/Bell/Jones/Marion/Stoudemire. Furthermore they've never really concerned themselves all that much with being small, it's the style they play.

If the Suns want to get better, they should move Kurt Thomas (expiring), James Jones ($2.8m) and the #24 pick to Denver for Camby. Then, they could have Nash-Bell-Marion-Amare-Camby. Denver would save almost $20 million, give them a strong rotation guy who shoots 38% from 3 (and can play 2-4), another first round pick and a solid replacement for the season in KT.

No way Denver makes that trade, Iverson would go ballistic and be justified.

[JeeberD]

Son of a bitch! Apparently the Rockets are thinking about bringing in Ron Artest...

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...name=ford_chad


One possible destination for Ron Artest this summer? Houston, to be reunited with his former coach Rick Adelman.

I'm told the Rockets have been quietly putting out feelers about Artest, and the price might be right. I hear it would cost the Rockets Bob Sura (he has only $1 million in salary protection next year), Kirk Snyder, Vasilis Spanoulis and this year's first-round draft pick.

With Artest entering a player option year on his contract in the summer of 2008, it may be time to take the risk.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Son of a bitch! Apparently the Rockets are thinking about bringing in Ron Artest...

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...name=ford_chad


One possible destination for Ron Artest this summer? Houston, to be reunited with his former coach Rick Adelman.

I'm told the Rockets have been quietly putting out feelers about Artest, and the price might be right. I hear it would cost the Rockets Bob Sura (he has only $1 million in salary protection next year), Kirk Snyder, Vasilis Spanoulis and this year's first-round draft pick.

With Artest entering a player option year on his contract in the summer of 2008, it may be time to take the risk.

as much as adding a talent like Artest to the team could put them over the top, i cant help but feel like im about to get kicked in the nuts by a man in wingtips. the guy is nothin but trouble, even if you can get him cheap.

btw what did he get in trouble for while he was in sacremento? im possitive he did get in trouble there even if i didnt hear about it. btw didnt the Rockets learn from Bonzi "asshat" Wells